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The Christian trinity is an idol.
Ms Sans Serif
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[quote:Dr VIP 1:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MTk1MTA0XzcxOTM3NUFE] [quote:Anonymous Coward 72275325:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MTg5MDYzX0NGRDlCQkI3] [quote:Dr VIP 1:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MTcwNTIwX0NCMkYzNUI5] [quote:Anonymous Coward 72869587:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MTcwMzgxXzQyNEE5MTE3] [quote:Dr VIP 1:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MTcwMjYwX0FBMENFNjM4] [quote:Anonymous Coward 72869587:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MTcwMDcxX0M3OTQzMzgx] [quote:Dr VIP 1:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MTY5NTU3XzVBNjI1MEU3] [quote:Anonymous Coward 72869587:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MTY5NDY0X0U5ODQzOEE5] [quote:Dr VIP 1:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MTY2MDM0X0NCOTk3NDY2] [quote:Anonymous Coward 72764350:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MTY1OTg4XzNDQkY3NUU3] [quote:Monotheism:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MTY1ODIxX0JFNEU0RkZF] [quote:Anonymous Coward 72764350:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MTY1NTg5XzQyQTJCQzE1] [quote:Monotheism:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MTY1NDY0X0EzNTI4NzEx] [quote:Anonymous Coward 72764350:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MTY1MzYwX0ExNzA1NThE] [quote:Monotheism:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MTYzNjQ5X0M5M0ExMjlD] [quote:Anonymous Coward 72834685:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MTYzNTQ1X0MyQ0FFMEVF] [quote:Monotheism:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MTYzNDc2XzcxMkM4OEEw] [quote:Anonymous Coward 72834685:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MTYzMTY0XzgwRjIxQTI2] [quote:Monotheism:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MTYzMDE0X0NFNzFFNkQ2] [quote:Anonymous Coward 72834685:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MTYyODQwXzJDNEUwNTc=] [quote:Monotheism:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MTUwMDgxXzNBQ0M3QzJF] [quote:Anonymous Coward 72865935:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MTA4ODM4X0EzQTNFQjY2] [quote:Monotheism:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MTA3NzA3XzRCMEVGMjVG] [quote:Anonymous Coward 72865935:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MTA3MzgwXzFBQkE0NTI4] [quote:Monotheism:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MTA2OTE0Xzc5M0VEOENC] [quote:Anonymous Coward 72865935:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MTA2NzkzXzI1MURFQTZB] [quote:Monotheism:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MTA2NjI4XzUwRjk4MDFF] [quote:Anonymous Coward 72865935:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MTA2NTM0XzQyMTI0MzJE] [quote:Monotheism:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MTAyMTI2XzNENkMyQ0NC] [quote:Anonymous Coward 29338205:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MDMwMDEwX0Q4MTVEMUY0] [quote:Monotheism:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MDEyMjMxXzRFNjlDQzY1] [quote:Anonymous Coward 29338205:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MDExOTA1XzdDQzkxQkIw] [quote:Monotheism:MV8zMjk5NzE5XzU5MDExODMyX0M4NDJCN0U3] Mystical school isn't exactly a seal of quality. You don't know my path, AC, you can't have an opinion about it. [/quote] It's not your path that I'm referring to, it's the exclusivity claim. And if you can say that about the different mystical traditions, then you show that you are bound up in dogma. I know you are a smart guy, mono, but that's just plain ignorant talk. What do you know of the mystical traditions that allows you to make such a silly statement? [/quote] I'm not talking about exclusivity and dogma, I'm talking about truth. And I'm saying mystical school and mysticism - not the mystic experiance - isn't a seal of quality and inherent wisdom - it's not. [/quote] [b]So what is that "truth" you are speaking of? Is it connected to your statement of receiving verifiable information from dreams/visions? If so, how is that different from the mystical experience?[/b] Why is your received truth somehow a seal of quality while you dismiss traditions you display no knowledge of beyond that blanket dismissal? And even though you keep sliding around it, you are still making an exclusive statement if you maintain that what you state about Yahweh is the sole truth. Why should you're stance be taken more substantively than, say, someone who ascribes the same truth to Krishna? [/quote] It doesn't differ from the mystical experience, it [i]is[/i] the mystical experience. That's the point you're not getting. I'll elaborate more later. [/quote] That isn't a point you have even touched upon, let alone explained in any substantive way. [/quote] You're the one confounding the two. [/quote] I'm not confounding anything because you haven't even set forth anything. So why not skip this vague non-replies and actually reply to the questions I asked? [/quote] Ok, then we agree, you're not confounding the two, and I'm not confounding the two - mystery schools is not the same as the mystical experience. And mystical traditions aren't exactly exempt from dogma either. I'll elaborate when my energy levels are charged. [/quote] Ok, but I never once mentioned mystery schools, which I know nothing of. I did say mystical schools or mystical traditions, and that is not the same thing, and they are not based on dogma in the way the exoteric traditions. Even if there are dogmatic elements in this tradition or that, those elements are minor and would never be used as the final arbiter in the way folks point to scripture and say this is the way it is because it says so right here in the book. [/quote] My bad, I meant [i]mystical[/i] school/tradition. Since mystics are so wise and flexible and dem religious folks are so dogmatic and narrow-minded, maybe you can ask a s Sufi master if he's willing to compromise a tad on the tawhid, or maybe you'll find a true Kabbalist that's willing to discard a couple of thoose pesky, dogmatic mitzvot. What I'm getting at is, there's an exoteric level and an esoteric level to most mystical traditions - to conquer the exoteric world is not to discard the esoteric. You might even say that one precedes the other. And it doesn't mean it's free from dogma, syncretism and religiousity either. I don't fetichize or romanticize mysticism or esotericism like pick-and-choose New-Ageism does, or like those self-professed GLP Gnostics that claim to share the Gnostic hate of Abrahamic religion, but don't practise any of their rigorous asceticism. [/quote] Ah, now this is more like it, mono. Working from bottom up, I'm with ya as far as the new-age wank. I have no time for it because it always seems to dilute the wine and turn it into the vinegar of self-aggrandizement. Likewise with the gnostic stuff. The fact is we just don't know enough about their teachings since so much was destroyed. So they are kinda like wiccans, reconstructing what they think might have been the core and adding this and that to suit their taste. I think all the traditions are syncretic to some extent. How could they not be? I would also agree that the lower levels would be prone to this or that dogma or religiosity, but the upper echelons realize that all this must eventually be discarded until nothing is left but the One. There are some advaita scriptures that are a punch in the face on this point, where they just burn the whole edifice down, even though it was built to get them to the point where they could do so. To the untutored eye, it seems like they are pissing all over their own sacred traditions and being wholly contradictory, but it's more a case where the ceiling of one level becomes the floor for the next. That's what I mean when I say that scriptural authority is not the destination, but the jumping off place. Not sure I understand what you mean by the sufi compromising on tawhid. Why would he have to? But in his steadfastness to the One, he would also be able to appreciate that there are other paths to that One and not get caught up in the blatherings that infest the exoteric exclusivity claims. I don't know if you saw it, but I was talking about this great little vid that I saw of a sufi, a kabbalist and a christian mystic, three traditions where the exoteric wings are busy damning each other, and these three were just in radiant agreement about the goal, which as ever, is the One. Which brings me back to my exclusivity point that started this. I get that you are locked into Yahweh as the One. But what of the yogi master who makes all the same claims for Krishna, or Shiva as the Absolute? They would see your claim as a different yet valid expression of that One which was beyond name and form, but would you be willing to grant them the same unity in goal underneath the diversity of expression? [/quote] My point with the Sufi was that a true mystic is as uncompromising with their faith as the exoteric religious person is. It seemed you were entertaining a false dichotomy in where that was not the case. Maybe it's not too likely in this day and age, but - forgive the bombastics - if I had to choose between being executed in the most gruesome manner imaginable, or recant my beliefs, I would have to choose death in a heart-beat. Death would become my duty. No, this is not me romanticizing martyrdom or a hypothetical scenario of my heroic zeal - I'm making a whole nother point. My point is that this, this subject, is of importance. Souls are being held captive, and I'm trying to set them free. This is not a joke to me. And even if I didn't have a purpose, truth in itself is self-sustaining, it doesn't need to be motivated. Like I alluded to, experience is the basis of my faith. I didn't just pick up one book and go "gee, that's a neat little story". I didn't "lock" into anything. Do you trust that what your eyes see is accurate? Do you trust your ears to hear? Do you trust you senses to to properly register your surroundings? Why? Because those are the tools at your disposals. What else is there to trust? That's what I'm doing, I'm trusting the tools at my disposal, because I have no other choice. But I also can't pluck out my eyes and lend you them so you so that you can experience and see what I have experienced and seen. There no other answer I can give you. What I am today is something I used to mock. Convenience wasn't a factor. And I'm still very much journeying. And I'm not alone having experience/dreams/visions as the foundation or as aspects of faith (something I used to mock too); on GLP alone, there's FOY, Elegant Walnut, WishinForTheMission that I know of, an probably many more. (And no, this is not me being defensive.) http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message3307113/pg1 Did you know there's a Jewish custom of buying a new kitchen knife for Rosh Hashana? I didn't either. It's not even a common Jewish practise. I learned about this custom in a dream (along with a lesson). Knowledge that with 100 % certainty originated from outside the realm of my knowledge and consciousness. I'm well beyond doubt at this point. (Which doesn't mean I got all things figured out.) May God guide and bless you. [/quote] For all your zeal for truth, which is commendable, would it be asking too much for you to actually answer a direct question now and then? Seriously, mono, your failure over and over to do so is a shadow on whatever light you seek to cast. What I am seeking to get at is not a minor technical point, but an overarching principle, so before getting to any of the rest of this, let me ask you one more time in hopes that you can this time answer directly: Which brings me back to my exclusivity point that started this. I get that you are locked into Yahweh as the One. But what of the yogi master who makes all the same claims for Krishna, or Shiva as the Absolute? [b]They would see your claim as a different yet valid expression of that One which was beyond name and form, but would you be willing to grant them the same unity in goal underneath the diversity of expression?[/b] And if not, why not? [/quote] Read my post again, I answered your question as direct as possible. I didn't "lock" into anything, I reponded to what I was shown. If there ever was a smidge of purity in Vedic religion that smidge is long since gone. [/quote] I read it quite carefully. What makes you say there is nothing of purity in vedic and why? That's quite the bold claim. What are you basing it on? [/quote] Ok, but I can't give a more direct answer. I base that on observation, research and deduction. That's not to say there aren't some interesting and unique aspects in Vedic tradition. [/quote] C'mon mono. If you have done observation, research and deduction, you can surely say more than that. What would be your kick against advaita? [/quote] Creation is not the Creator. My path is with the true God. I had my first [i]clean[/i] OBE after third eye meditation. Experience. [/quote] [b]Third eye, eh? I don't suppose you think that is some kind of OT concept, do you?[/b] Still, if you are at all aware of advaita, you would know that such experiences, regardless of how profound, are ephemeral and not at all indicative of the highest truth, which sees no separation of creator and creation, God being indivisible, beyond all name and form. [/quote] No I don't, but I'm not talking about last week either. [/quote] Well, no matter how you slice it, it's an Indic contribution to the mix, so since you put it forth as some sort of validation for your experience, maybe you might want to rethink your earlier notion that the vedic stream was devoid of value. And then there is the rest of what I said there. When you say you path is with the true God, are you saying that that God's name is Yahweh and Yahweh alone? [/quote] I never said it was devoid of value, I said it was devoid of purity. It is. I had a point of mentioning that particular experience too. Yes, that is the true God. But I don't use that name. [/quote] Well, even the yogis who speak of Krishna or Shiva being the absolute understand that any name is just a convenient place holder for that which is ultimately beyond name and form and conception. So if you insist that you have the one true "right" name, or if you think it's what you call the God of Abraham, Jacob, and Isaac, well, that's all good if it works for you, but to insist it must work for all or is the only true path is unsupportable. [/quote] one the infallible name and its holiness becomes a pantheon of pagan gods... thats a problem that is not supported by nature which would result in the collapse of such a civilization. and thats really the unique message of Torah, ONE G-d with none besides him. and now all other pagan religions are starting to say the same thing by reverse engineering their shit and saying it is better than Judaism and Judaism borrowed from them. that is ofcourse... horse crap. but you are too butthurt to admit that. [/quote] I'm not the butthurt one, doc. You have this pathological need to see yourself and your folk as superior in all things and it's kinda sad, to tell you the truth. Look at your bit about the collapse of a civilization. Wtf is that about? Who the are you guys to talk about civilizations? You never even had a civilization to collapse, but are a tiny tribe that has been bounced around from civilization to civilization always under someone's thumb or heel, whether it was Egypt, Babylon, Greece, or Rome. And yet you think you guys are gonna bring torah to the world to save it and everybody is going to dance to Yahweh's tune. And yet, even there, it all has to come by subterfuge and deceit. [/quote] subterfuge a deciet? I honestly thought you were better than this. and now I am sure you are butthurt, because it is an Hebraic world you are living in, not whatever is your own cultural backround. I am not sorry that Hebrewism is wining despite you being butthurt. and no, we are not successful because we are very good, we are actually not so good, as is really obvious. we are successful because the Torah is true. so ofcourse other races like you... are butthurt and you constantly throw these lies at us trying to stop us... not going to happen and you know whats funny? it is obvious the butthurt comes from the fact it is Hebrewism and not your own culture that is dominating, and the funny part is that we are winning so hard that you are not even trying to use only your culture agaisnt us, but other cultures, as if such tiny tribe is so powerful for one culture to take on alone, but now the entire cultures and histories of the world need to be recruited. as nixon said, aliens would cause humanity to unite lol. [/quote] No, doc, you didn't think I was better than anything. You just got done a few posts ago telling me what a deceitful liar I was and would have probably still be singing that tune if I hadn't pulled up your words about profusely apologizing to me for your last spate of such shit. It's what you do, and you aim it at anyone who goes against your dogmatic slant. You go on about Hewbrewism winning and all this. Winning what? I don't even know what that means. I don't relate to the world that way, so it doesn't make any sense to me. I know there are judaic roots in the judeo christian basis of civilization, but it's not like they are the only roots we have. Greco-roman roots are equally foundational and there are cross currents from other strains east and west. Whatever you are on about isn't tracking with me at all. I don't even know what it means to say that you are wrong because I don't even know what you mean when you say hebrewism is dominating the world. The only thing I could come up with is what folks say about the banksters and nwo stuff, and I already know you are pinning that on being made a scapegoat by the jesuits. This idea of world domination under any banner simply makes no sense to me. It's like dominating a puppet show. What's the point? Seriously. If you could just explain what all this effort goes to and why, maybe I could grok it, but I just don't get it. [/quote] I got a little too carried away by your comment about "subterfuge and deceit" nvm forget it. anyway, heres the message of Torah, "the supreme infallibe one? yeah that one... worship only that one, no other thing beneath him is divine" and that idea dominates the world, there is no religion predating Judaism that carries that idea... all other religions were there to support the divinity claim of the monarch and state which resulted in the population being slaves. and if you cant see that this is the essence of Judaim, exodus out of pagan egypt to freedom, and now exodus out of papal rome and their nwo to freedom... then I have nothing more to add. [/quote] Doc, you told me you were waged in a war to bring down rome and christianity. How are you gonna do that without subterfuge and deceit? So don't trip over my saying back to you what you were saying. As for the rest, it's a well-known idea in Indic circles that all worship ultimately goes to God, who sees it for what it is. That's a lot more refined than your version of all the huffing and puffing and blowing his chosen ones down because they got it wrong. [/quote] if its done through subterfuge and deceit then it aint going to work... we are doing it by simply teaching Judaism to Jews and having those Jews talk about it, and this talking spreads to the none Jewish world and becomes a meme and before you know it you have a truth movement working to take down the roman establishment while on the way debating bible and whether its Jews who are behind it all. really... if you cant see this sort of Judaic influence is over the world is supernatural that has forced empires to bend and step down and change to fit the demands of their people slowly converting from the absolute divine monarchs despots into a democarcy of the people... really if you dont see the supernatural behind this, the impossibility that it is simply natural... well, just well. bow down to a cow and think it goes to god... if you dont see that as wrong, then just well. maybe when again you are forced to bow down to a demigod king who takes your wife for prima nocta you will see it is not so good to bow down to a cow [/quote] You are going to bring down the vatican and the nwo with a meme based on teaching judaism to jews and debating the bible? Not sure how that would work, since the guys that you seek to take down coopted your bible 2000 years ago and never looked back. Now they have their eyes on Jerusalem and are working to finalize their control over it. You think you are going to debate them out of that? Can you list the empires you have brought to their knees. I goggled it and came up blank. How you are taking credit for democracy is beyond me, but there ya go. Regarless, if you are paying attention to that world out there you are under the impression that you guys are dominating, democracy is in its death throes in every way but the sham show. There are those who want to pin it on you guys as being behind the decline of western civ and this treacherous onslaught of sludge that's washing up on our cultural shores in the way of the insane multi-culty gender bender assault of political correctness and the like, but you have been a staunch denier of such talk and blame the jesuits, so I'm not really sure where you guys fit into the mix on the face of it. [/quote] yes... exactly, I refer you to my previous response. we have changed the world, through Judaism, Judaic ideas that are based on it's pure monotheism have penetrated the hearts of the entire world, and now virtually every man on earth is an enemy of such tyrannies such as rome. these Judaic ideas have been spread by "memes" christianity carried some, islam carried some... and Jews just talking Judaism carried some of these memes all around the world. and now virtually every man woman and child on earth takes these sort of out looks on life for granted. for evidence see for yourself the neo paganism I have talked about, it is impossible to become a pure pagan again, because people understand that the lower aspects are not worthy of worship... sure they may help shed light on the nature of the true infallible one... but are not to be worshiped... and by this, human kings and rulers are no longer worshiped which means people do not allow their governments to enslave them (atleast not in a visible manner) you say you do not know of empires we have brought to their knees... well what about the protestant reformation? and how it has freed europe from the clutches of the vicar of god on earth, the pope? which resulted in one of the freest countries on earth, the united states of america, which its bill of rights and constitution are heavily influenced by Torah and Talmud (yes yes... the original judicial system of the US is heavily based on the Talmud) ** yes I am aware jesuits have taken control over breakaway europe and the US, but not in a direct manner that can be noticed by the populace... and why is that? because of the Judaic ideas in the hearts of the populace, they dont see the pope is G-d's vicar on earth, so if direct control was establised again, it would result in an instant revolt. do you really really not see what I am talking about? yeah, I dont take credit for democracy, but I do take credit for how democracy has been used to weaken the aristocratic class through the realization that it is not divine... which is not what the greek had in mind with their democracy as it was created to strengthen the aristocracy. and again, the idea that the ruling class is not divine does not trace to any pagan philosophy, on the contrary pagan philosophies contribute to that idea, and it is Judaism that has broken that malicious spell over nations. [/quote]
It's a false, conceptualized image of the true God, and the golden calf of Christianity. To serve the true God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob you need to reject the trinity idol.
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