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Gospel of Salvation vs Tribulation Gospel
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[quote:Expose ALL Shills:MV8zODU4ODY3XzcwMDQ3NjI5X0EzMjk2RkQ5] [quote:Achduke7:MV8zODU4ODY3XzcwMDQ2MDU1XzU5RUZBRUUy] [quote:Expose ALL Shills:MV8zODU4ODY3XzcwMDQ1MTE0XzU5RjM5RUE5] [quote:Achduke7:MV8zODU4ODY3XzcwMDQ0MjY5X0QyRjlBREVG] [quote:Expose ALL Shills:MV8zODU4ODY3XzcwMDQyNDI2XzdDQzU2MTQ=] [quote:Achduke7:MV8zODU4ODY3XzcwMDQwMzI5XzM4MzU5NThC] [quote:Expose ALL Shills:MV8zODU4ODY3XzcwMDM2MzU4Xzk3MzhCMDE2] [quote:Achduke7:MV8zODU4ODY3XzcwMDM2MjczXzMzMUU2MTJC] [quote:Expose ALL Shills:MV8zODU4ODY3XzcwMDMyOTYwXzMwM0I3OTY2] [quote:Achduke7:MV8zODU4ODY3XzcwMDIxOTU5XzREMUYxNDVG] [quote:Expose ALL Shills:MV8zODU4ODY3XzcwMDIxNDYyX0Y5MzgwRDQ3] [quote:Achduke7:MV8zODU4ODY3XzcwMDE5MDI5XzhGOUJFQjI4] [quote:Expose ALL Shills:MV8zODU4ODY3XzcwMDE4NzcyX0Q4Q0RCNzA1] [quote:Achduke7:MV8zODU4ODY3XzcwMDE4NzIwXzRCQjQyMjZD] [quote:Expose ALL Shills:MV8zODU4ODY3XzcwMDE2ODYwX0M0NUJENzY2] [quote:Achduke7:MV8zODU4ODY3XzcwMDE1OTEyXzc2NjNFNTU0] [quote:Expose ALL Shills:MV8zODU4ODY3XzcwMDE1Mjk0XzVCOEMyNTg4] [quote:Achduke7:MV8zODU4ODY3XzcwMDEyNzY0XzQ3MDhDMzE1] [quote:Expose ALL Shills:MV8zODU4ODY3XzcwMDExNzE4XzEzNEFCNjE3] [quote:Achduke7:MV8zODU4ODY3XzcwMDA1MTA3XzJDNjE1ODky] [quote:Expose ALL Shills:MV8zODU4ODY3XzcwMDA0ODgzXzU0Qjg0QTY5] [quote:Achduke7:MV8zODU4ODY3XzcwMDAyMzY0XzdENjE0Mjc5] [quote:Expose ALL Shills:MV8zODU4ODY3XzcwMDAxNjg4X0ZFMkE0RUQ5] [quote:Achduke7:MV8zODU4ODY3XzcwMDAwMDMxX0Q4MzMzNDYx] [quote:Expose ALL Shills:MV8zODU4ODY3XzY5OTk5NzQzXzcyMTZFQzcx] I am not talking about what happens AFTER we are saved. I am only discussing what is necessary IN ORDER to be saved. Understand the difference? Please answer this honestly Duke: did Israel have to believe in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection in order to be saved? Did they have to have faith in His blood? For their sins? The answer is no, and Jesus had not died yet. Israel had to believe (and WILL have to believe) in the NAME of Jesus. Christ, Messiah. Scripture says this plainly, but people who do not rightly divide do not understand this. [/quote] Salvation has always been by faith through the Grace of God. Just because the prophets have died does not mean they were not waiting for salvation to come when Christ resurrects them at the appropriate time. Do you not believe that Abraham, Moses and the other prophets and believers are saved? [i]Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham [b]believed God[/b], and it was [b]counted unto him for righteousness[/b] 1 Peter 1:10-11 10 Of which [b]salvation the prophet[/b]s have inquired and searched diligently, [b]who prophesied of the grace[/b] that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time [b]the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify,[/b] when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.[/i] [/quote] Faith in what exactly? If you say God, then what did Jesus die for? Why did Jesus have to die? [/quote] Faith in God and his future plans with Christ. They were prophets. Does God not reveal his plans? [i]Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.[/i] [/quote] I will ask a third time, why did Jesus have to die? [/quote] [i]1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that [b]Christ died for our sins[/b] according to the Scriptures, Rom 6:23 [b]For the wages of sin is death[/b], but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 3:23 for [b]all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,[/b] 2Co 5:21 [b]For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us[/b], that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. Joh 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "[b]Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world![/b] Joh 3:16 "F[b]or God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son[/b], that [b]whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.[/b] Hab 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: [b]but the just shall live by his faith.[/b] Isa 26:19 [b]Your dead shall live; together with my dead body they shall arise[/b]. Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust; for your dew is like the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Pro 30:4 [b]Who has ascended into heaven, or descended[/b]? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is His Son's name, if you know? Act 4:12 "[b]Nor is there salvation in any other[/b], for there is no other name under heaven [b]given among men by which we must be saved."[/b][/i] [b]Now show me how you think Israel is saved by the law using the old testament. Also show me one man saved man in the old testament who was resurrected before Jesus.[/b] [/quote] Jesus died for our sins. Then we must trust in what He did. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 in the King James says we must have faith in HOW He died, shedding His blood. Romans 3:25 Is this how people were saved during the ministry of John the Baptist, during Jesus' ministry, and the ministry of the early apostles to Israel? Were those people saved by trusting in His blood per Romans 3:25? [b]Yes or no[/b] If you answer this honestly then there won't be a need to go back and forth on this anymore. [/quote] Yes they were saved that way there is no other way to be saved. Can you show me anyone not saved by faith through the blood of Christ. Even Abraham is saved this way. There is only one gospel. The law does not save. Once we are saved and are given the Holy Sprit only then can we follow all God's law. [/quote] You are conflating the two different ways again Israel was told to believe on the NAME of Jesus, which is Christ, Messiah. They were not given the gospel of faith in the blood atonement per Romans 3:25, because Jesus had not died yet. Two different ways for two different people. [/quote] The disciples were told it was going to happen. Abraham and other prophets may or may not have been told by God. Just the same they had faith God would save them. [i]Job 19:25 For I know that[b] my redeemer liveth[/b], and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:[/i] How he saved them is through the blood of Christ. There is no other way that is made known. [/quote] The disciples were not saved by believing in His blood atonement for their sins, they were already saved by believing he was the Christ. In fact some did not immediately believe He rose from the dead, see what Thomas said. Israel was to believe in the name of Jesus, Christ the anointed one, their Messiah. Je = Jehovah; Sus = saves Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Jesus was not talking about faith in His blood to Israel, that was the revelation He gave to Paul to give to the gentiles. Different gospels for Israel and the Gentiles. [/quote] Why do you not believe anyone but Paul? Your bias appears to be Paul only. [i]Luke 24:45-47 45 Then opened[b] he[/b] their understanding, [b]that they might understand the scriptures[/b], 46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to [b]suffer[/b], and to [b]rise from the dead[/b] the third day: 47 And [b]that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations[/b], beginning at Jerusalem[/i] All the nations include the Gentiles. The Death, Burial and Resurrection was known by the Apostles before Paul. [/quote] I believe in the King James Bible as the word of truth, I do not regard any scripture as unprofitable. That being said, we must rightly divide this word of truth. Not everything applies to everybody at all times. [/quote] If you divide Luke 24 anymore it will just be a bunch of jumbled words. The meaning in Luke 24 his pretty clear and it was to all the nations. Don't let your Paul only bias get in the way. [/quote] Peter agreed, Paul was not a one-man mission. This passage was late in Peter's ministry. 18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. We are redeemed by the precious blood of Christ, nothing else. God bless [/quote] Peter and Paul are both correct it is about the blood of christ. They both showed why we are saved through faith and blood but what you are failing to see that this was applicable at the time of his death in Luke 23 and 24. Even though Luke may have written this later, the apostles were already saved because of faith and the blood of Christ. [/quote] The apostles got the Holy Spirit from Jesus breathing on them, remember? We get the Holy Spirit differently today, by faith in His blood. Additionally, Judas lost this Holy Spirit apparently, and Thomas doubted until He saw Jesus after the resurrection. We cannot lose our salvation today like Judas seems to have done. Faith in the blood was not revealed until Paul, I am not declaring him better than any of the other apostles, it is what scripture says. 11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. [/quote] Judas never had the holy spirit and thomas doubted before he received the holy spirit. Just the same they received the holy spirit at pentecost. This was because of faith and blood as Luke says from Christ. [/quote] Scripture says the disciples got the Holy Spirit when Jesus breathed on them. We get the Holy Spirit differently today. Not sure why you are so opposed to these facts. [/quote] Because you have not shown any facts. So were all the apostles going around and breathing on each other? Christ was the only one who breathed on the apostles and they did not even receive the Holy Spirit at that time. The rest of the apostles would lay hands on new disciples. [i]John 20:22 And when he had said this, [b]he breathed on them[/b], and saith unto them, [b]Receive ye the Holy Ghost[/b]:[/i] Acts 8:17 Then [b]laid they their hands[/b] on them, and [b]they received the Holy Ghost[/b]. Jesus commanded that they receive the Holy Spirit but did it happen at that exact moment? Here is when they received the Holy Spirit on Pentecost. [i]Acts 2:1 And [b]when the day of Pentecost was fully come[/b], they were all with one accord in one place. 2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4[b] And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost[/b], and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.[/i] Even Paul laid hands on people when they were baptized. [i]Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the [b]Holy Ghost came on them[/b]; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.[/i] Paul performed the same exact method when he baptized people by laying of hands and then they received the Holy Spirit. [/quote] The fact is you ignore several scriptures, to your own detriment and to others' detriment as well. The fact remains that the disciples received the Holy Spirit when Jesus breathed on them per John 20. Quoting Acts 2 does not change this. Acts 2 shows when the disciples were FILLED with the Holy Spirit, not when they received it the first time. Your repeated mistake of applying Acts 2 to your unfounded arguments shows you are not rightly dividing. You say Jesus' ministry was not just to Israel per Matthew 15:24... Because you are not rightly dividing. Jesus' ministry was solely to Israel. Not everything in scripture applies to everyone at the same time. There are two covenants. [/quote] Also it does not say they received the Holy Spirit at this time. [/quote] False Jesus said in John 20:22 "Receive ye the Holy Ghost". No need for us to continue in circles, you have established your position on this and it benefits nobody to go further. All that matters is people know the gospel of our salvation for today. Will you help spread it? 1 Peter 1:18-19 Romans 3:24-25 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 God bless [/quote] Don't believe me, believe Christ just Read Acts 1:5 and you will see that Christ promised them the baptism of the Holy Spirit several days after his ascension which then happens at acts 2. [/quote] 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Apparently you deny this happened. Why should we progress to Acts when you do not understand the book preceding it? [/quote]
Original Message
We must rightly divide the Word of Truth.
God bless
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