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If Jesus was with God and was God in the beginning why does the bible say he is God's first creation?
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In accordance with industry accepted best practices we ask that users limit their copy / paste of copyrighted material to the relevant portions of the article you wish to discuss and no more than 50% of the source material, provide a link back to the original article and provide your original comments / criticism in your post with the article.
[quote:DGN:MV8zOTcyNDY4XzcxOTcxNzM1X0M3M0U2ODlC] [quote:Anonymous Coward 74896242:MV8zOTcyNDY4XzcxOTcxMjM2XzU4RkNGQkNB] [quote:DGN:MV8zOTcyNDY4XzcxOTcxMDI5X0QyREMwMzc0] [quote:Anonymous Coward 74896242:MV8zOTcyNDY4XzcxOTcwNzUwXzU5QjI1Q0Y3] [quote:DGN:MV8zOTcyNDY4XzcxOTcwNTI3XzhCMTM4QkZE] [quote:Anonymous Coward 74896242:MV8zOTcyNDY4XzcxOTcwNTA1XzU3MkI4ODUz] [quote:DGN:MV8zOTcyNDY4XzcxOTcwMDQ0XzQyOEJCRjJB] [quote:NoFriendOfTheWorld:MV8zOTcyNDY4XzcxOTY5MzAxXzE0QTM1NkMy] [quote:Anonymous Coward 73015805:MV8zOTcyNDY4XzcxOTY3ODc5X0I5QjNEMEU1] [quote:DGN:MV8zOTcyNDY4XzcxOTY3Njg1XzNEMDNBRDBC] [quote:Anonymous Coward 73015805:MV8zOTcyNDY4XzcxOTY3NjQ1XzkxQjZFMjA3] [quote:DGN:MV8zOTcyNDY4XzcxOTY3NDg2X0E3OEUyOERG] [quote:Anonymous Coward 73015805:MV8zOTcyNDY4XzcxOTY3MzcyXzIyMzRFNjhD] [quote:TheLordsServant:MV8zOTcyNDY4XzcxOTY3MTIyXzVDQzdDNkE3] [quote:Anonymous Coward 73015805:MV8zOTcyNDY4XzcxOTY3MDQ4X0VCOEFFMjA4] [quote:Anonymous Coward 73015805:MV8zOTcyNDY4XzcxOTY2ODUxXzNERTI1RDMw] [quote:Anonymous Coward 77374108:MV8zOTcyNDY4XzcxOTY2Njk5Xzk1MTJCNzA0] Numbers 23:19 King James Version (KJV) 19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? [/quote] That scripture alone prove Jesus was God manifested in the flesh. The Flesh man That housed God, known as the "son of man" died and was resurected. God himself did not die. [/quote] Notice the scripture. God and the son of man are represented as one. Numbers 23:19 King James Version (KJV) 19 [b]God is not a man,[/b] that he should lie; [b]neither the son of man[/b], that [b][u]he[/u][/b] should repent: hath he said, and shall [b][u]HE[/u][/b] not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall HEnot make it good? If the Son of man was separate and not God in the flesh, it would have said "[b]THEY[/b]" can not lie or repent. The word of God came FORTH out OF GOD. God manifested in "the flesh" the Flesh died. )Not the Word that was with God and WAS GOD.) and was resurrected. The Word was with God AND the Word WAS GOD. [/quote] The Son OF God was manifested in the flesh. Read the opening to Revelation. And God cannot die. Yet Jesus died, albeit in human form. Have you read any of the other posts in this thread? [/quote] Yes. I've read all your post. The reality is that the "flesh" died that housed God himself. God did not die. Just the flesh died that housed the word of God. In the beginning was the word and the word was and the word BECAME FLESH. The Flesh died that housed the word of God that WAS GOD. God did not die. [/quote] No Jehovah never took human form Jesus did. "So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of divine favor and truth. 15 (John bore witness about him, yes, he cried out: “This was the one of whom I said, ‘The one coming behind me has advanced in front of me, for he existed before me.’”) 16 For we all received from his fullness, even undeserved kindness upon undeserved kindness. 17 Because the Law was given through Moses, the undeserved kindness and the truth came to be through Jesus Christ. 18 [b][i]No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him[/i][/b]." jo1 [/quote] No man has seen God at anytime. That is correct. Only one was privileged to see the back part of God in scripture. That is Why God was manifested in Human form. The "flesh man" was just that. Mortal Flesh. Not God. It was a medium im which God used to dwell amongst mankind. In the beginning was the word and the word was with God AND the Word WAS GOD. Not a lesser god. And the WORD BECAME FLESH and dwelt amongst men. [/quote] If Jesus is God who is Jehovah? [/quote] "Jesus" was the "man/flesh" that Housed God. The "man" Christ was just that. A man. Flesh that was mortal and experienced pain, sorrow and death. A flesh in which God himself took on dwelling amongst men and experiencing that which humanity lives. The being in which he created that Housed God, that died and resurected, now sits at the right hand of the father. In the beginning the Word was with God (not the flesh man that housed God) AND THE WORD (Not the flesh that housed God) WAS GOD. [/quote] DGN is a Jehovah's witness, and TheLordsServant may be as well. No use arguing with them since they adamantly deny the deity of Christ. I'm sure they denounce the doctrine of predestination as well and believe they have saved themselves with their own ability to believe. If God chooses to reveal the truth to them, He will in His time. [/quote] "[i]I'm sure they denounce the doctrine of predestination as well"[/i] If the blasphemy of predestination is true who is accountable for sin/crime genocides? [/quote] I think you might be confusing predestined with predetermined. [/quote] What's the difference? [/quote] If my life is predetermined, I function as no more than a robot. I do exactly as I have been programmed to do. If predetermination is real, then the entire premise of the Bible is false. If my life is predestined, it means that there is a laid out purpose for my life that, to fulfil, I first have to repent of my sin and thus aved from it. I am also saved for a purpose. That is what I have been predestined for. Hope that helps [/quote] Responding to God's invitation to be spiritually educated, reformed, to qualify for serving him is his wish for everyone. Sin was never predestined. "9 That is also why from the day we heard of it, we have never stopped praying for you and asking that you may be filled with the accurate knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual comprehension, 10 so as to walk worthily of Jehovah in order to please him fully as you go on bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the accurate knowledge of God; 11 and may you be strengthened with all power according to his glorious might so that you may endure fully with patience and joy, 12 as you thank the Father, who made you qualify to share in the inheritance of the holy ones in the light." Col1:9 [/quote] Being a sinner is not predestined, it is a simple truth of Scripture ‘for all have sinned and falllen short of the glory of God’ A person cannot be saved unless they repent of their sin, and walk in obedience to Jesus, as he walked in obedience to the Father. Jesus said we remaini in his love if we keep his commandments. He that ensures to the end will be saved. Thankfully it is not Gods will that any should perish. [/quote] :applause: [/quote]
Original Message
" These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God:" Rv3:14
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