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Subject Nazis are not lefties ... they are accounted to extreme right on worldwide consensus!!!

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[quote:Shen Long 657383:MV83NzUyNzdfMTE5MzUwNzZfNTJDMDcwREU=]
There are a lot of things being said here, but as I see it we're on about a few things in particular.

1. For whatever reason understanding Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia  seems to be an important reference point. In reference to what? The present situation I imagine. These 19th century inventions (brought up to speed with 20th century technology) garner a great deal of influence and tend to dominate our understandings of 'authoritarianism' and modern political struggles. It is my assumption that the assumption is that by referring to our "historical checklists" and comparing them to the present, we can some how identify and explain what is occurring today. However, as the point has already been made, the march of history has only confused things to a great degree. To argue whether or not "self-interest" or "collective interest" has done more damage is about as productive as arguing about whether or not religious fervor or atheism is more dangerous. They are all dangerous! They are all beneficial!

In other words, does is really matter to me whether or not I'm told that boot in my face is for my own good or for someone else's? I think not. What is at stake is that there's a fuckin' boot in my face!

2. The 'axis' of economy and culture. Right-wing economics can get along nicely with left-wing cultural values. Indeed the two are in fact ideally suited to each other - the more culturally permissive a culture is, the more opportunity for consumption and social invention. The most conservative cultures in the world are some of the most destitute in economic terms at least - precisely because they don't allow for the 'play of the market' (which would be disruptive of existing social orders). There are various combinations of each and as SHR has mentioned you can't look only at a economic model, or just even social vision. The two (at least) must be taken into account together.

I think there's something about romanticism involved here - in the US the struggle isn't really between 'right' and 'left' but between two different visions of liberalism - one romantic and the other protestant. In a word, this is the perceived hypocrisy of the "champagne socialist". The "lefties" have since the 60s been fighting a cultural agenda that goes hand in hand with the free market ideology - they just don't want to admit it.

The mistake I think for 'neo-liberals' and even libertarians is their assumption that the "market = society". This isn't true either. The market is a wealth creation engine, nothing more. Market values cannot be called upon to create a good society. A good society needs a market, but not the other way around. Smith's "invisible hand" wasn't some magic property of the market to always distribute wealth fairly  and efficiently (anyone can see the idea of an always rational and efficient marketplace is a total fiction - markets are swept up in all sort of irrational behavior). Rather his invisible hand were the subtle and unamable forces of culture which would mediate the markets effects. To the average neo-liberal of today, Smith would sound incredibly "socialist" in his writings.

The neo-liberal 'heresy' is that they supplant civil society with the market. Smith never once assumed that the market alone could bring freedom or stability or even happiness. The market was one component among many. The 'authoritarianism" in this case is the one the declares all human concerns subservient to the economy.

There's something else but it fell outta me head. Something about resisting the idea of the presumed totality of large nation-states....
[/quote]

Original Message

National Socialism:
Political Position: Far Right
...
The Nazi Party is generally described as being at the extreme or far right of the left-right
...
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

I noticed the latest spin from the right wing dept is trying to sell us nazis are lefties cause they had socialist in their name.

Regardless how they named themselves they were fascists and are accounted to the extreme far right on worldwide agreement! Also Hitler hated Marxists and liberals and had announced to wipe them off completely.

Do they think we're so easily duped or what?

Nazis never could be socialists cause they imprisoned socialists and social democrats among others.
Most prisoners in the early concentration camps were German Communists, Socialists, Social Democrats, Roma (Gypsies), Jehovah's Witnesses, homosexuals, and persons accused of "asocial" or socially deviant behavior.

[link to www.ushmm.org]

The term far right is mostly used to describe fascism, Nazism and other ultra-nationalist as well as reactionary ideologies and movements
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Edit:
Hope this AC doesn't mind if I include his post into the OP, he expressed it much better than I could:

it is a nice little bit of trickery they like to play with themselves.

since they like to pretend that US is a "right wing" country (or at least should be, or it is in some ideological sense) they must continue to press the idea that there is no way the "right" has done anything other than defend liberty, eat apple pie, and stave of leftist totalitarianism. thus, the biggest example of murderous fascism we've got - Hitler - gets reconstructed as a 'leftist' never mind his primary aims were to create an industrial aristocracy "supported" by the people, wiped out marxists, liberals, homosexuals, jews, the disabled and other "unwanteds".

So yeah, Nazis were absolutely right wing motherfuckers and this is contested absolutely nowhere except in talk radio fox news land "Amurika" - where what really happened doesn't matter if you're pissed off and angry enough.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 657383

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