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Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution

 
TXGal4Truth
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03/01/2010 01:50 PM
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Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
[link to www.amplifyyourvoice.org]

A proposed Utah law that would open women who suffer a miscarriage to possible criminal prosecution and life imprisonment has enraged feminists and civil rights activists across the United States.

Adopted overwhelmingly by both sides of the state legislature in Salt Lake City earlier this month, the draft bill is now awaiting the signature of the state's Republican Governor, Gary Herbert. It is not clear if the growing national controversy surrounding the proposed law will slow or even stay his pen.

While the main thrust of the law is to enable prosecutors in the majority-Mormon state to pursue women who seek illegal, unsupervised forms of abortion, it includes a provision that could trigger murder charges against women found guilty of an "intentional, knowing or reckless act" that leads to amiscarriage. Some say this could include drinking one glass of wine too many, walking on an icy pavement or skiing.

Lawmakers were responding to the case of a 17-year-old pregnant Utah woman who paid a man $150 to assault her physically in the hope that the beating would cause her to miscarry. The child was born anyway and put up for adoption. And while the man involved is currently behind bars, prosecutors found they had no basis in state law to prosecute the young woman. She was in her seventh month when she tried to terminate her pregnancy.

How Utah Defined Miscarriage as Criminal Homicide

Utah's "Criminal Miscarriage" law (H.B.12) makes simple changes to the state's definition of "abortion" and the section of the Utah Criminal Code governing "criminal homicide."

This law:

* defines legal abortion as a procedure "carried out by a physician or through a substance used under the direction of a physician." Anything else that terminates a pregnancy is now defined as illegal abortion - including miscarriages.

* states that "The killing or attempted killing of a live unborn child in a manner that is not abortion shall be punished as...criminal homicide." (emphasis mine)

* removes existing immunity from criminal prosecution for women "who seek to have or obtain an abortion" or "upon whom a partial birth abortion is performed."

* applies the legal standard of an "intentional, knowing or reckless act of the woman" as punishable as criminal homicide.

Translation: If a woman has a miscarriage but didn't know that she was pregnant, she cannot be charged with criminal homicide. So while this law does not criminalize all miscarriages, anything that could be defined as "knowing" or "reckless" would leave a woman at risk for criminal prosecution.

Think it couldn't possibly be that bad? The ACLU of Utah is pretty sure that it could. In their letter appealing to Utah Governor Gary Herbert to veto the bill (Spoiler: He won't!), the ACLU said:

Practically speaking however, this bill changes the presumption that abortions obtained in this state are legal. If this bill is signed into law, women in this state will essentially be in the uncomfortable and unfortunate position of having to prove that abortions they obtain (or miscarriages that they suffer) are not unlawful.

In fact, it's the "recklessness" standard that may pose the greatest threat. Again, from the ACLU:

A woman who fails to wear a seatbelt and is in a car accident could be charged with reckless homicide, should she miscarry. Likewise, a woman who has a substance abuse problem is likely to forego necessary prenatal care out of fear that she could be prosecuted for "knowing" or "reckless" homicide by continuing to use illegal substances while pregnant.

The problems don't stop there. Women in physically abusive relationships could be criminally liable for not leaving their partner, regardless of their ability to do so safely or securely. Women seeking lawful abortion may be guilty of criminal homicide if her physician failed to follow exact procedures set forth in the law.

For a law designed to discourage illegal abortion, Utah's "Criminal Miscarriage" law will only drive abortion further underground for those who cannot safely seek or afford legal medical abortion care.

Last-minute efforts to remove reference in the bill to "reckless" acts failed, feeding the uproar about a law that some people say would be impossible to implement and threatens basic freedoms of women. Statistics suggest that 15 to 20 per cent of recognised pregnancies end inmiscarriage. "This creates a law that makes any pregnant woman who has a miscarriage potentially criminally liable for murder," said Missy Bird, director of Planned Parenthood Action Fund of Utah, part of the national organisation that champions abortion rights.

Critics also note that the bill has no exemptions for women who suffer domestic abuse or who have addiction problems. They wonder, for example, about the putative case of a woman remaining with an abusive partner and suffering amiscarriage after an episode of violence. Would remaining in that relationship constitute "reckless" behaviour, they ask?

Last Edited by TXGal4Truth on 03/01/2010 01:51 PM
So have I now become your enemy for telling you the TRUTH? Galatians 4:16
***********************************
You call me paranoid. I call you uninformed.

:tgdmwt:
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2010 01:51 PM
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Re: Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
this country is getting crazier and crazier. i hate it.
TXGal4Truth  (OP)

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03/01/2010 01:52 PM
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Re: Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
this country is getting crazier and crazier. i hate it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 846424


I agree with the fist part of what you said. :)
So have I now become your enemy for telling you the TRUTH? Galatians 4:16
***********************************
You call me paranoid. I call you uninformed.

:tgdmwt:
Andromeda

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03/01/2010 01:53 PM
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Re: Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
The State deserves as few rights as possible over our bodies, property and personal lives.

If you hand The State any rights to control your body, property or personal life, you can be certain they will abuse that right in some degrading and lamebrained way soon after.
ZTE

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03/01/2010 01:54 PM

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Re: Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
So basically it's now only legal to have your unborn baby killed if/and only if you have a professional do it.

Or to put it simply by the motives.

It's illegal for an unborn baby to die if you want it, and it's legal for an unborn baby to die if you don't want it.

Up is down. Right is wrong.
Kingman-Art

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03/01/2010 01:55 PM

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it's a baby ... not a right to choose
TXGal4Truth  (OP)

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03/01/2010 01:56 PM
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Re: Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
So basically it's now only legal to have your unborn baby killed if/and only if you have a professional do it.

Or to put it simply by the motives.

It's illegal for an unborn baby to die if you want it, and it's legal for an unborn baby to die if you don't want it.

Up is down. Right is wrong.
 Quoting: ZTE


Pretty strange world we're living in, at the moment..wouldn't you say?
So have I now become your enemy for telling you the TRUTH? Galatians 4:16
***********************************
You call me paranoid. I call you uninformed.

:tgdmwt:
PhennommennonnModerator
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03/01/2010 01:56 PM

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Re: Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
almost happened here


Watch What You Say To Your Doctor/Nurse
Thread: Watch What You Say To Your Doctor/Nurse
political correctness is a doctrine.... fostered by a delusional, illogical minority...... and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media; which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2010 01:58 PM
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Re: Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
Basically a lock all the women up law.


Shouldn't be a problem in Utah, thats what the backup wife is for.
TXGal4Truth  (OP)

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03/01/2010 01:58 PM
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Re: Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
almost happened here


Watch What You Say To Your Doctor/Nurse
Thread: Watch What You Say To Your Doctor/Nurse
 Quoting: Phennommennonn


Wow, that's some crazy chit...
So have I now become your enemy for telling you the TRUTH? Galatians 4:16
***********************************
You call me paranoid. I call you uninformed.

:tgdmwt:
ZTE

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03/01/2010 01:59 PM

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Re: Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
Pretty strange world we're living in, at the moment..wouldn't you say?
 Quoting: TXGal4Truth


Problem is I can't wrap my head around the fact that I'm living in this world. Because none of these laws effect me directly, I just block them out. I know it's not good, but everybody does it. We all choose the path of least resistance. But soon, we will have no choice but resistance, because it will be our only path.
TXGal4Truth  (OP)

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03/01/2010 02:00 PM
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Re: Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
Pretty strange world we're living in, at the moment..wouldn't you say?


Problem is I can't wrap my head around the fact that I'm living in this world. Because none of these laws effect me directly, I just block them out. I know it's not good, but everybody does it. We all choose the path of least resistance. But soon, we will have no choice but resistance, because it will be our only path.
 Quoting: ZTE


^^THIS^^
So have I now become your enemy for telling you the TRUTH? Galatians 4:16
***********************************
You call me paranoid. I call you uninformed.

:tgdmwt:
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2010 02:00 PM
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Re: Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
I can see in the case of someone using crack or other drugs during their pregnancy, thus causing a miscarriage.
However, it would still be hard to prove that it was the actual drug use that caused the miscarriage.

I think they are getting carried away.
TXGal4Truth  (OP)

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03/01/2010 02:01 PM
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Re: Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
Thanks for the pin you guys. :)
So have I now become your enemy for telling you the TRUTH? Galatians 4:16
***********************************
You call me paranoid. I call you uninformed.

:tgdmwt:
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2010 02:05 PM
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Re: Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
This reminds me of the Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood...Women as breeding machines.
Watcher
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03/01/2010 02:06 PM
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Re: Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
So basically, the medical association lobby doesn't want any "do-it-yourselfers" out there cutting into their income! So long as you're a licensed medical personnel, you can kill all the babies you want. After all, they aren't viable until they take their first breath, right?(according to them!). However, if you miscarry due to risky behaviour, apparently, a different set of "viability" rules apply and it is then the murder of a child? Did I get that about right?

Up is down, left is right and right is wrong!!!!! God is going to zap these people with lightening VERY SOON, I can feel it!!!!!!!
Returner
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03/01/2010 02:07 PM
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Re: Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
That law sounds almost Muslim in its Stone Age mentality.
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2010 02:12 PM
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Re: Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
And while the man involved is currently behind bars, prosecutors found they had no basis in state law to prosecute the young woman. She was in her seventh month when she tried to terminate her pregnancy.


 Quoting: TXGal4Truth



They should have tried her for the same thing they tried the man. You kick a woman in the belly trying to kill her unborn baby that's attempted murder. She should be charged with the same thing.
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2010 02:14 PM
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Re: Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
I can hear the doctors now:

"Sorry you miscarried. There was nothing you did wrong. The police are be waiting to arrest you."
fire Uncle Scam

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03/01/2010 02:14 PM
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Re: Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
That law sounds almost Muslim in its Stone Age mentality.
 Quoting: Returner 997


It looks like the terrorists won after all.
America, Idiocracy in the making. The nanny state wins and Darwin loses; survival of the dumbest and laziest is all but guaranteed.

[link to trianglefreeforum.com]
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2010 02:17 PM
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Re: Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
Maybe a test case for State's rights is happening. An immigration watch might be taking place by such a law passing.
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2010 02:18 PM
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Re: Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
That law sounds almost Muslim in its Stone Age mentality.
 Quoting: Returner 997


Mormons are cultist nutbags. They are of stone age mentality crossed with scientology lunacy
ExhaleAeonVolts

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03/01/2010 02:21 PM
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Re: Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
[link to www.thestranger.com]




If the governor signs the bill into law a woman in Utah who intentionally or accidentally induces a miscarriage can be charged with criminal homicide and sentenced to life in prison.

Um... Utah?

If every miscarriage is a potential homicide, how does Utah avoid launching a criminal investigation every time a woman has a miscarriage? And women have a lot of miscarriages: one in four pregnancies end in a miscarriage. And how is Utah supposed to know when a pregnant woman has had a miscarriage? You're going to have to create some sort of pregnancy registry to keep track of all those fetuses, Utah. Perhaps you could start issuing "conception certificates" to women who get pregnant? And then, if there isn't a baby within nine months of the issuance of a conception certificate, the woman could be hauled in for questioning and she could be indicted for criminal homicide if it's determined that she intentionally or accidentally induced a miscarriage. Of course, lots of women miscarry before they even realize their pregnant... so Utah will have to pass another law, one that compels all sexually active women—actually, let's just say all women, Utah, since some sexually active women claim they're chaste—to come in for mandatory monthly pregnancy tests...
He who controls the past controls the future, and he who controls the present controls the past. -1984
TXGal4Truth  (OP)

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03/01/2010 02:24 PM
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Re: Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
[link to www.thestranger.com]




If the governor signs the bill into law a woman in Utah who intentionally or accidentally induces a miscarriage can be charged with criminal homicide and sentenced to life in prison.

Um... Utah?

If every miscarriage is a potential homicide, how does Utah avoid launching a criminal investigation every time a woman has a miscarriage? And women have a lot of miscarriages: one in four pregnancies end in a miscarriage. And how is Utah supposed to know when a pregnant woman has had a miscarriage? You're going to have to create some sort of pregnancy registry to keep track of all those fetuses, Utah. Perhaps you could start issuing "conception certificates" to women who get pregnant? And then, if there isn't a baby within nine months of the issuance of a conception certificate, the woman could be hauled in for questioning and she could be indicted for criminal homicide if it's determined that she intentionally or accidentally induced a miscarriage. Of course, lots of women miscarry before they even realize their pregnant... so Utah will have to pass another law, one that compels all sexually active women—actually, let's just say all women, Utah, since some sexually active women claim they're chaste—to come in for mandatory monthly pregnancy tests...
 Quoting: ExhaleAeonVolts


Makes you wonder, doesn't it? 1dunno1
So have I now become your enemy for telling you the TRUTH? Galatians 4:16
***********************************
You call me paranoid. I call you uninformed.

:tgdmwt:
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2010 02:26 PM
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Re: Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
Thank God I don't have no damn uterus!!!
TXGal4Truth  (OP)

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03/01/2010 02:28 PM
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Re: Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
Thank God I don't have no damn uterus!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 299322


If you're a dude, I would hope you didn't... damned
So have I now become your enemy for telling you the TRUTH? Galatians 4:16
***********************************
You call me paranoid. I call you uninformed.

:tgdmwt:
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2010 02:28 PM
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Re: Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
All you women in Utah, please move to other States. All of you. Let Utah fail to be a State when no new births occur there again because there are no women there - and their population dwindle to Zero.
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2010 02:30 PM
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Re: Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
UNDERSTAND THAT UTAH LAW = MORMON LAW AND MORMAN IS AN ANAGRAM OF ROMAN - THEREFORE THIS WOULD BE ROMAN LAW WHICH IS MARTIAL LAW AND IS THE LAW OF THE LAND HERE IN THE U.S. - IT JUST HASN'T BEE ENFORCED YET - THIS WAS EVIDENCED BY THE RECENT CITIBANK 'WARNING' ABOUT N.O.W.(NATIONAL ORGANIZATION OF WOMEN) ACCOUNTS ISSUED IN TEXAS THAT WENT OUT TO ALL STATES [THE CLAIMS PEOPLE] . . . MORE ABOUT THESE MONSTROUS CLAIMS HERE....


"I acknowledge no civil power; I am the subject of no prince; and I claim
more than this. I claim to be the supreme judge and director of the conscience of men -- of the peasants that till the fields, and of the prince that sits upon the throne; of the household that lives in the shade of privacy, and the legislator that makes laws for kingdoms -- I am sole, last, supreme judge of what is right and wrong. (Tablet, Oct. 9, 1864)

There’s three things to remember: claim everything, explain nothing, deny everything.” - Senator Prescott Bush (Skull and Bones 1917)

The Bush family patriarch made the above statement in a 1966 interview for Columbia University’s oral history project on the Eisenhower administration. Prescott Bush said that political dictum had been explained to him by Claire Boothe Luce, congresswoman, ambassador and wife of Time-Life media magnate Henry Luce (Bones 1920).




'Camilla' Anagram - 'claim all'

Claire (St. Clair - Priory of Scion) Booth - counterfeit French Tabernacle - Luce - counterfeit beloved 'Luke' - ie. Lucifer


THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT CHILDBEARING - BUT ABOUT CARRYING THE COUNTERFEIT TABERNACLE OR THE COST OF IT
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2010 02:31 PM
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Re: Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
All you women in Utah, please move to other States. All of you. Let Utah fail to be a State when no new births occur there again because there are no women there - and their population dwindle to Zero.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 715509

Are You a Muslim? Demographics?
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2010 02:31 PM
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Re: Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
The chastisement is coming.

Worship our Creator and only our Creator. Do not associate partners with Him.
ZTE

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03/01/2010 02:32 PM

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Re: Proposed Utah Law - Women Who Miscarry MAY Face Criminal Prosecution
Mormon =/= Roman

Mormon = Romon...M



Not a mormon, just pointing out it's not a true anagram.





GLP