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Most of the US Founding fathers were Deists

 
Apocalypse TrollModerator
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04/08/2010 08:38 PM

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Re: Most of the US Founding fathers were Deists
[link to nationalhumanitiescenter.org]

This is a great read on how little the impact was of deism in early America and especially at and before its founding; There was a brief flare-up in the early 1800's, but it was quickly stamped out by the evangelicals...
attxflag
"Honor the Texas flag; I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state under God, one and indivisible."

[link to www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us]
danhow  (OP)

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04/08/2010 08:41 PM
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Re: Most of the US Founding fathers were Deists
John Adams

"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?"
-letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816

The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole cartloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity."

The question before the human race is, whether the God of Nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles?"


Can a free government possibly exist with the Roman Catholic religion?"
-letter to Thomas Jefferson

Just a few quotes from John Adams
Anonymous Coward
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04/08/2010 08:43 PM
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Re: Most of the US Founding fathers were Deists
Samuel Johnston:
• “It is apprehended that Jews, Mahometans (Muslims), pagans, etc., may be elected to high offices under the government of the United States. Those who are Mahometans, or any others who are not professors of the Christian religion, can never be elected to the office of President or other high office, [unless] first the people of America lay aside the Christian religion altogether, it may happen. Should this unfortunately take place, the people will choose such men as think as they do themselves.
[Elliot’s Debates, Vol. IV, pp 198-199, Governor Samuel Johnston, July 30, 1788 at the North Carolina Ratifying Convention]
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Most of the US Founding fathers were Deists
[link to nationalhumanitiescenter.org]

This is a great read on how little the impact was of deism in early America and especially at and before its founding; There was a brief flare-up in the early 1800's, but it was quickly stamped out by the evangelicals...
 Quoting: Apocalypse Troll



Thank you AT. Have bookmarked for later review.

Somehow, Deism just rings true for me.

From your link and what impresses me about Deism.

...Deism or “the religion of nature” was a form of rational theology that emerged among “freethinking” Europeans in the 17th and 18th centuries. Deists insisted that religious truth should be subject to the authority of human reason rather than divine revelation. Consequently, they denied that the Bible was the revealed word of God and rejected scripture as a source of religious doctrine. As devotees of natural religion, they rejected all the supernatural elements of Christianity.
danhow  (OP)

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04/08/2010 08:45 PM
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Re: Most of the US Founding fathers were Deists
Benjamin Franklin

"I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity."
- Works, Vol. VII, p. 75

Some books against Deism fell into my hands. . . It happened that they wrought an effect on my quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."

If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish Church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. They found it wrong in Bishops, but fell into the practice themselves both here (England) and in New England

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."
Anonymous Coward
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04/08/2010 08:49 PM
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Re: Most of the US Founding fathers were Deists
On another note, most of the founding fathers of Israel, whom the Christian Right supports were Marxist atheists, including Theodore Herzl who refused to circumcise his own son.
danhow  (OP)

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Re: Most of the US Founding fathers were Deists
James Madison

"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not."
- "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785

Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
- "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
-letter to Wm. Bradford, April 1, 1774

"Ecclesiastical establishments tend to great ignorance and corruption, all of which facilitate the execution of mischievous projects."

"The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries."
-1803 letter objecting use of gov. land for churches
danhow  (OP)

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04/08/2010 08:55 PM
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Re: Most of the US Founding fathers were Deists
I put the quotes up of a few founding fathers for User ID: 754098 he had a mile long post on the first page.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Most of the US Founding fathers were Deists
KNEEL BEFORE THE KNOWLEDGE IN THIS THREAD!
danhow  (OP)

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04/08/2010 09:00 PM
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Re: Most of the US Founding fathers were Deists
George Washington:

The father of this country was very private about his beliefs, but it is widely considered that he was a Deist like his colleagues. He was a Freemason.

Historian Barry Schwartz writes: "George Washington's practice of Christianity was limited and superficial because he was not himself a Christian... He repeatedly declined the church's sacraments. Never did he take communion, and when his wife, Martha, did, he waited for her outside the sanctuary... Even on his deathbed, Washington asked for no ritual, uttered no prayer to Christ, and expressed no wish to be attended by His representative." [New York Press, 1987, pp. 174-175]

Paul F. Boller states in is anthology on Washington: "There is no mention of Jesus Christ anywhere in his extensive correspondence." [Dallas: Southern Methodist University Press, 1963, pp. 14-15]

More about Washington's beliefs
[link to www.infidels.org]
Anonymous Coward
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04/08/2010 09:02 PM
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Re: Most of the US Founding fathers were Deists
I put the quotes up of a few founding fathers for User ID: 754098 he had a mile long post on the first page.
 Quoting: danhow

A mile long post that refutes your assertion.
Anonymous Coward
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04/08/2010 09:03 PM
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Re: Most of the US Founding fathers were Deists
I put the quotes up of a few founding fathers for User ID: 754098 he had a mile long post on the first page.

A mile long post that refutes your assertion.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 754098


HAHAHAHAH!
danhow  (OP)

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04/08/2010 09:05 PM
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Re: Most of the US Founding fathers were Deists
Last one for now Thomas Paine:

"The New Testament, they tell us, is founded upon the prophecies of the Old; if so, it must follow the fate of its foundation.''


"Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst."
.


"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half of the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.
.


"What is it the New Testament teaches us? To believe that the Almighty committed debauchery with a woman engaged to be married; and the belief of this debauchery is called faith."
.


"Take away from Genesis the belief that Moses was the author, on which only the strange belief that it is the word of God has stood, and there remains nothing of Genesis but an anonymous book of stories, fables, and traditionary or invented absurdities, or of downright lies."
.


"We do not admit the authority of the church with respect to its pretended infallibility, its manufactured miracles, its setting itself up to forgive sins. It was by propagating that belief and supporting it with fire that she kept up her temporal power."
.


"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any Church that I know of. My own mind is my own Church. Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."
.


"The story of Jesus Christ appearing after he was dead is the story of an apparition, such as timid imaginations can always create in vision, and credulity believe. Stories of this kind had been told of the assassination of Julius Caesar."

All the Quotes I posted here and above are from the
Excerpted from Compton's Interactive Encyclopedia Deluxe.
danhow  (OP)

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04/08/2010 09:07 PM
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Re: Most of the US Founding fathers were Deists
I put the quotes up of a few founding fathers for User ID: 754098 he had a mile long post on the first page.

A mile long post that refutes your assertion.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 754098


On the contrary my friend.It seems I have refuted his assertion.
D. Bunker

04/08/2010 09:10 PM
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Re: Most of the US Founding fathers were Deists
BTW OP, 5 stars just for bringing Deism out in a thread.

I believe either Apocalypse Troll or Phoenix 2012 (one of the mods) supports Deism as well. I can't remember which mod...sorry.

One more site for you to peruse and follow rabbit holes.

[link to www.theologicalstudies.org]

What is Deism?

by Michael J. Vlach, Ph.D.


Deism is the belief that an intelligent being created the world, but this being is no longer involved with the world or intervenes in the affairs of people. According to Deism, a being that could be called “God” created the world and set it in motion. But after creating the world and giving it the natural laws it needed to function, this God left the world allowing it to function on its own. This God, who should not be understood as the personal God of Christianity, is like an absentee landlord or a watchmaker who no longer has any interest in the watch he created.



The founder of Deism was Lord Herbert of Cherbury (1583–1648). Deism flourished in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries and reached its zenith around the time of the American Revolution. This view was popular among European thinkers such as Voltaire as well as several founders of the United States including Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin.



In its early days, Deism was not as skeptical about traditional Christian views of God as it would become later. In fact, early on it could be viewed as a revival of the natural theology of Thomas Aquinas (BTW, he is a Catholic Saint...LOL) in which nature teaches all people certain truths about God. Lord Herbert, himself, believed that natural theology supported Christian beliefs about God. Eventually, though, Deism came to be an alternative view to Christianity. Matthew Tindal (1655–1733) published Christianity as Old as the Creation which became known as the ‘Bible of Deism.’ In this work he argued a point that would become a central thesis of Deism—‘reason is superior to revelation.’
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 656642


I am more or less a Deist.
:savetata:


Favorite Quote - "I just fucking love outer space, it has all those planets and stars and shit." - Mister Obvious 2009
Anonymous Coward
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04/08/2010 09:21 PM
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Re: Most of the US Founding fathers were Deists
Deism is a bullshit term for mainstream history textbooks (propaganda) to hide the FACT they were Freemasons, for starters.

Jefferson fully supported the French revolution which was admited to be ran by the Freemasons. George Washington is a famous Freemason. So stfu about deism. It's all bullshit. Deism is the practice of the Freemasons by allowing all to join. They recognize any god, Jew Christian Muslim Hindu, et al. All are accepted as a path to the Creator. This is NOT Christianity.
D. Bunker

04/08/2010 09:49 PM
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...This is NOT Christianity.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 938013


I agree as the concept that God interacts and is deeply involved with the affairs of man as opposed to mankind utilizing reason are at odds.
:savetata:


Favorite Quote - "I just fucking love outer space, it has all those planets and stars and shit." - Mister Obvious 2009
Anonymous Coward
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04/08/2010 10:00 PM
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"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."

-Abraham Lincoln
dig

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04/08/2010 10:40 PM
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I agree as the concept that God interacts and is deeply involved with the affairs of man as opposed to mankind utilizing reason are at odds.
 Quoting: D. Bunker

That's very profound and probably highly intellectual and correct.
dig

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04/08/2010 10:44 PM
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Re: Most of the US Founding fathers were Deists
But what do I know.
Kaosofik

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04/08/2010 10:57 PM
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Great thread OP. Very interesting.
Tat Tvam Asi
danhow  (OP)

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04/09/2010 01:31 AM
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Great thread OP. Very interesting.
 Quoting: Kaosofik


Thanks!Keep up the research!!!!
danhow  (OP)

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04/09/2010 01:38 AM
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Re: Most of the US Founding fathers were Deists
"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."

-Abraham Lincoln
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 935284

bump
danhow  (OP)

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04/09/2010 01:45 AM
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Reapeating!!!

The Constitution, in attempting to guarantee freedoms for individuals, was put together with three branches--the executive, legislative and judicial branch--in order to divide the power among these three branches. The founding fathers should have also created a financial branch, which was also controlled by the people, but failed to do so; rather, they had the Constitution so written that Congress would control the money.Congress not only had the right to mint and coin money but also have the right to legislate and make laws--this allowed Congress to be manipulated at a future time into giving away or voting away its right to mind and coin money, and by turning this over to the Federal Reserve Bank
danhow  (OP)

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04/09/2010 02:47 AM
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Re: Most of the US Founding fathers were Deists
Thomas Jefferson The third president of the United States was Thomas Jefferson. He had been the author of the Declaration of Independence and the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom. In an age of great men Jefferson was remarkable for his wide-ranging curiosity on many subjects. He helped the United States get started, and his plans for the future helped it grow. Many of the good things Americans enjoy today have come from Jefferson's devotion to human rights.
Jefferson is often called the founder of the Democratic party. Many other groups also claim to follow his principles. He developed the theory of states' rights, which was against giving much authority to the federal government. He is known to everyone as the author of the ringing statement in the Declaration of Independence that all men are created equal, that among their inalienable rights are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. His writings have stood as a torch to the defenders of individual freedom, in spiritual as well as in worldly affairs. .
danhow  (OP)

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Re: Most of the US Founding fathers were Deists
Thomas Jefferson

In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot ... they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their purpose."
- to Horatio Spafford, March 17, 1814
.


"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
- "Notes on Virginia
danhow  (OP)

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04/09/2010 02:51 AM
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Thomas Jefferson
continued!

Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.
- letter to Peter Carr, Aug. 10, 1787


It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticisms that three are one, and one is three; and yet that the one is not three, and the three are not one. But this constitutes the craft, the power and the profit of the priests."
- to John Adams, 1803
.


History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."
- to Baron von Humboldt, 1813


"On the dogmas of religion, as distinguished from moral principles, all mankind, from the beginning of the world to this day, have been quarreling, fighting, burning and torturing one another, for abstractions unintelligible to themselves and to all others, and absolutely beyond the comprehension of the human mind."
- to Carey, 1816

A few more in a bit.
danhow  (OP)

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04/09/2010 03:31 AM
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Think about that!


On the dogmas of religion, as distinguished from moral principles, all mankind, from the beginning of the world to this day, have been quarreling, fighting, burning and torturing one another, for abstractions unintelligible to themselves and to all others, and absolutely beyond the comprehension of the human mind."
- to Carey, 1816
Anonymous Coward
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04/09/2010 03:41 AM
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bump
danhow  (OP)

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04/09/2010 03:56 AM
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Re: Most of the US Founding fathers were Deists
Martin Luther King, Jr.

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.





GLP