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IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????

 
SwampRatLost
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05/04/2010 01:10 AM
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IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
BP has gathered 1/3 of the worlds supply of chemical dispersants in attempts to break up the Gulf oil slick. They are injecting it directly into the giant underwater oil leak flowing from the wellhead. This method has never been used. Nor has this amount of dispersants, applied to one area, ever been used. The dispersants do not eliminate the oil, or eat it up. All it does is breaks the oil down into tiny droplets that either sink, or remain suspended in the water, under the surface. Agitation from waves speed up this process. Wave height have been 10-12 ft around the area of the spill all this past week. This brings up some issues for me.

Is this preventing us from actually knowing how much oil has been leaked? The clear answer is YES! Out of sight out of mind right? Is this being done for the benefit of the Gulf itself, or for the benefit of BP public relations?

What long term effect will this have on the life of the Gulf?

[link to www.propublica.org]
Chemicals Meant To Break Up BP Oil Spill Present New Environmental Concerns

The chemicals BP is now relying on to break up the steady flow of leaking oil from deep below the Gulf of Mexico could create a new set of environmental problems.

Even if the materials, called dispersants, are effective, BP has already bought up more than a third of the world’s supply. If the leak from 5,000 feet beneath the surface continues for weeks, or months, that stockpile could run out.

On Thursday BP began using the chemical compounds to dissolve the crude oil, both on the surface and deep below, deploying an estimated 100,000 gallons. Dispersing the oil is considered one of the best ways to protect birds and keep the slick from making landfall. But the dispersants contain harmful toxins of their own and can concentrate leftover oil toxins in the water, where they can kill fish and migrate great distances.

The exact makeup of the dispersants is kept secret under competitive trade laws, but a worker safety sheet for one product, called Corexit, says it includes 2-butoxyethanol, a compound associated with headaches, vomiting and reproductive problems at high doses.

“There is a chemical toxicity to the dispersant compound that in many ways is worse than oil,” said Richard Charter, a foremost expert on marine biology and oil spills who is a senior policy advisor for Marine Programs for Defenders of Wildlife and is chairman of the Gulf of the Farallones National Marine Sanctuary Advisory Council. “It’s a trade off – you’re damned if you do damned if you don’t -- of trying to minimize the damage coming to shore, but in so doing you may be more seriously damaging the ecosystem offshore.”

BP did not respond to requests for comment for this article.

Dispersants are mixtures of solvents, surfactants and other additives that break up the surface tension of an oil slick and make oil more soluble in water, according to a paper published by the National Academy of Sciences. They are spread over or in the water in very low concentration – a single gallon may cover several acres.

Once they are dispersed, the tiny droplets of oil are more likely to sink or remain suspended in deep water rather than floating to the surface and collecting in a continuous slick. Dispersed oil can spread quickly in three directions instead of two and is more easily dissipated by waves and turbulence that break it up further and help many of its most toxic hydrocarbons evaporate.

But the dispersed oil can also collect on the seabed, where it becomes food for microscopic organisms at the bottom of the food chain and eventually winds up in shellfish and other organisms. The evaporation process can also concentrate the toxic compounds left behind, particularly oil-derived compounds called polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, or PAHs.


According to a 2005 National Academy of Sciences report, the dispersants and the oil they leave behind can kill fish eggs. A study of oil dispersal in Coos Bay, Ore. found that PAH accumulated in mussels, the Academy’s paper noted. Another study examining fish health after the Exxon Valdez spill in Alaska in 1989 found that PAHs affected the developing hearts of Pacific herring and pink salmon embryos. The research suggests the dispersal of the oil that’s leaking in the Gulf could affect the seafood industry there.

“One of the most difficult decisions that oil spill responders and natural resource managers face during a spill is evaluating the trade-offs associated with dispersant use,” said the Academy report, titled Oil Spill Dispersants, Efficacy and Effects. “There is insufficient understanding of the fate of dispersed oil in aquatic ecosystems.”

A version of Corexit was widely used after the 1989 Exxon Valdez spill and, according to a literature review performed by the group the Alaska Community Action on Toxics, was later linked with health impacts in people including respiratory, nervous system, liver, kidney and blood disorders. But the Academy report makes clear that the dispersants used today are less toxic than those used a decade ago.

“There is a certain amount of toxicity,” said Robin Rorick, director of marine and security operations at the American Petroleum Institute. “We view dispersant use as a tool in a toolbox. It’s a function of conducting a net environmental benefit analysis and determining the best bang for your buck.”

Charter, the marine expert, cautioned the dispersants should be carefully considered for the right reasons.

“Right now there is a headlong rush to get this oil out of sight out of mind,” Charter said. “You can throw every resource we have at this spill. You can call out the Marine Corps and the National Guard. This is so big that it is unlikely that any amount of response is going to make much of a dent in the impacts. It’s going to be mostly watching it happen.”




Engineers are working to inject dispersants at the oil’s source - 5000’ below the surface. If successful, it could reduce or prevent an oil plume from forming at the surface.
[link to response.restoration.noaa.gov]

[link to www.popsci.com]
Huge C-130 aircraft from the U.S. Air Force Reserve have joined the fight against the Deepwater Horizon oil slick, which now threatens to ravage the local ecosystems and fishing industry in the Gulf of Mexico. Each aerial tanker holds aerial spraying equipment that can help spray dispersant to break up the oil slick on the water, according to Ares Defense Blog.

Two of four modified C-130s have deployed to the Gulf of Mexico from the 757th Airlift Squadron at Youngstown ARS, Ohio. They typically spray pesticides or fire retardant using the Modular Aerial Spray System (MASS), although other Air National Guard units have the Modular Aerial Fire Fighting System (MAFFS). A newer MAFFS 2 version can dispense 30,000 pounds of retardant in just 3 to 5 seconds from one nozzle at almost 14,000 pounds of thrust. Last year, PopSci took a tour of a firefighting 747 that uses similar technology.

[link to www.livescience.com]
If approved, it will be the first time in U.S. history that oil dispersant has been applied at the subsea source of a spill.
SwampRatLost (OP)
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05/04/2010 01:36 AM
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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
Come on guys no theories or opinions on this???
Anonymous Coward
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05/04/2010 11:32 AM
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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
I believe it 100%
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05/04/2010 11:38 AM

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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
Come on guys no theories or opinions on this???
 Quoting: SwampRatLost 960462

For some reason I get the sinking feeling that a mix of chemicals AND oil will actually be worse than just oil.....
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Anonymous Coward
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05/04/2010 11:40 AM
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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
Yes, these types of dispersants will make it very hard to estimate the oil leaked because they droplets will be microemulsified into the ocean water.
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05/04/2010 11:42 AM

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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
Yes, these types of dispersants will make it very hard to estimate the oil leaked because they droplets will be microemulsified into the ocean water.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 684320

It sounds like disolving the toxic oil into the sea water instead of dealing with removing it is a much better idea...looks better I'm sure....
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Ooooh, see the fire is sweepin' Our very streets today...
Burns like a red coal carpet, Mad bulls lost the way...
War, children, it's just a shot away...it's just a shot away....
Anonymous Coward
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05/04/2010 12:07 PM
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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
But its not better! And we know it! Watch in a week or sooner, when they run out of these chemicals. THAT SLICK WILL BALLOON!

Sure it keeps the oil from reaching shore in a covering slick. But the oil is still reaching shore, IN THE WATER!
sea turtle
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05/04/2010 12:15 PM
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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
Sea turtles killed with no evidence of oil on body. Likely killed by "dispersed" oil.
Anonymous Coward
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05/04/2010 12:25 PM
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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
Come on guys no theories or opinions on this???
 Quoting: SwampRatLost 960462


You are basically right. Dispersants are good for PR, not for the environment. The dispersants themselves are toxic, and as you say they just suspend the oil in the water.
SwampRatLost(OP)
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05/04/2010 12:27 PM
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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
And if you notice, this tactic has worked out QUITE WELL for BP. There is even less coverage on the spill in the media, then their was before. And the coverage before, was a joke!

This is why so many people responded that it looks like its getting smaller, to Trins three day slick forcast.

ITS NOT, IT GROWS BY SO MUCH MORE THEN WE SEE, EVERYDAY!

Im so frustrated :(
Anonymous Coward
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05/04/2010 12:52 PM
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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
bump
Andromeda

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05/04/2010 12:54 PM
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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
Yes, obviously.

Sad but true.
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05/04/2010 01:01 PM

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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
That's why it is 45' deep in places, they are going to make the Gulf a Dead Zone!
"Life is tough, it's tougher if you are stupid." - John Wayne

Settle down Francis!
Anonymous Coward
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05/04/2010 01:03 PM
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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
Yes, obviously.

Sad but true.
 Quoting: Andromeda


Then what do you do? So many people are believing this lie, and they are killing our Gulf.

AHHHHH Nothing to see here folks! Catastrophy AVERTED! MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! JOB WELL DONE BROWNIE!

Man TPTB REALLY PISS ME OFF SOMETIMES!
Andromeda

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05/04/2010 01:11 PM
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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
Yes, obviously.

Sad but true.


Then what do you do? So many people are believing this lie, and they are killing our Gulf.

AHHHHH Nothing to see here folks! Catastrophy AVERTED! MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! JOB WELL DONE BROWNIE!

Man TPTB REALLY PISS ME OFF SOMETIMES!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 960833


There's nothing we can do this week, or this minute.

They believe that using the chemical dispersants is helpful for some reason and people are buying it.

I don't think they should use that stuff at all. It's poison, all they are doing is hiding the oil that they can dissolve into the sea water.

They should have more ships at the surface vacuuming up the oil with high capacity pumps and a very focused boom containment system.
Anonymous Coward
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05/04/2010 01:42 PM
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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
See! People actually believe this crap message that the MSM is spewing!


Thread: the Oil Spill doom-mongers - not "the worst ever"
Anonymous Coward
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05/04/2010 04:06 PM
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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
Until sealife begins dying, and seafood is tested. We will not know the effects of these chemicals.

The whole situation is truly sad.
Anonymous Coward
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05/04/2010 06:14 PM
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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
bump
Prisoner of Technology

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05/04/2010 06:16 PM

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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
And the EPA allows this shit? wtf
No one has ever seen a perfect circle, nor a perfectly straight line, yet everyone knows what a circle and a straight line are.
Perceived circles or lines are not exactly circular or straight, and true circles and lines could never be detected since by definition they are sets of infinitely small points.
_SATAN_

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05/04/2010 06:16 PM
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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
Dispersants=DIS persons
DIS means Pluto, and Pluto is the planet of...yeah.

everyone around me has been scrounging for caffeine and sugar.
TooEasyForTheElites
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05/04/2010 06:18 PM
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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
Bee Pee owned by the same cabal which owns the empire. they can does what they wants, its their world grandma.

TooEasyForTheElites
Anonymous Coward
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05/04/2010 06:21 PM
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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
And the EPA allows this shit? wtf
 Quoting: Prisoner of Technology


Fuck you hippie! If you care that much about the earth kill yourself now!
Anonymous Coward
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05/04/2010 06:37 PM
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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
And the EPA allows this shit? wtf


Fuck you hippie! If you care that much about the earth kill yourself now!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 952623


So if your pissed that someone is killing your food supply, you are a hippie?????

Dude you are a dumbass
Anonymous Coward
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05/04/2010 06:45 PM
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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
And the EPA allows this shit? wtf


Fuck you hippie! If you care that much about the earth kill yourself now!


So if your pissed that someone is killing your food supply, you are a hippie?????

Dude you are a dumbass
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961071


It was a joke. Guess not a very good one.
Anonymous Coward
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05/04/2010 06:48 PM
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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
And the EPA allows this shit? wtf


Fuck you hippie! If you care that much about the earth kill yourself now!


So if your pissed that someone is killing your food supply, you are a hippie?????

Dude you are a dumbass


It was a joke. Guess not a very good one.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 952623


Im sorry, I am so frustrated right now with all of this stuff. Our local news here in SE Louisiana is barely covering the story. Literally 5 minutes a news cast.

Im sorry :(
Anonymous Coward
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05/04/2010 06:58 PM
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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
Another thing,

once the oil is microemulsified into the sea water, emulsions don't break easy

and the emulsions have an easier bio-uptake into plants and animals.

trust me, microemulsified oil in water solutions are what the agricultural business does to INCREASE the BIOEFFICACY (in their case to kill a plant or pest) of the solution.
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05/04/2010 07:00 PM
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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
BP Had Other Problems in Years Leading to Gulf Spill


BP, the global oil giant responsible for the fast-spreading spill in the Gulf of Mexico that will soon make landfall, is no stranger to major accidents.
In fact, the company has found itself at the center of several of the nation’s worst oil and gas–related disasters in the last five years.

In March 2005, a massive explosion ripped through a tower at BP’s refinery in Texas City, Texas, killing 15 workers and injuring 170 others. Investigators later determined that the company had ignored its own protocols on operating the tower, which was filled with gasoline, and that a warning system had been disabled.

The company pleaded guilty to federal felony charges and was fined more than $50 million by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

Almost a year after the refinery explosion, technicians discovered that some 4,800 barrels of oil had spread into the Alaskan snow through a tiny hole in the company’s pipeline in Prudhoe Bay. BP had been warned [1] to check the pipeline in 2002, but hadn’t, according to a report in Fortune. When it did inspect it, four years later, it found that a six-mile length of pipeline was corroded. The company temporarily shut down its operations in Prudhoe Bay, causing one of the largest disruptions in U.S. oil supply in recent history.


BP faced $12 million in fines for a misdemeanor violation of the federal Water Pollution Control Act. A congressional committee determined that BP had ignored opportunities to prevent the spill and that “draconian” cost-saving measures had led to shortcuts in its operation.
Other problems followed. There were more spills in Alaska. And BP was charged with manipulating the market price of propane. In that case, it settled with the U.S. Department of Justice and agreed to pay more than $300 million in fines.


….., Families of workers who died in the accident have already filed lawsuits accusing BP of negligence. Congress, as well as the Minerals and Management Service, the federal agency that regulates drilling in the Gulf, were already separately investigating allegations that BP has failed to keep proper documents about how to perform an emergency shutdown [3] of the Atlantis, another Gulf oil platform and one of the largest in the world.


There are also indications that BP and Transocean, the owner of the Deepwater Horizon rig that burned and sank, could have used backup safety gear [4] — a remote acoustic switch that would stanch the flow of oil from a leaking well 5,000 feet underwater — to prevent the massive spill now floating like a slow-motion train wreck toward the Mississippi and Louisiana coastline. The switch isn’t required under U.S. law, but is well-known in the industry and mandated in other parts of the world where BP operates.
In the year before the accident, BP once again aggressively cut costs. A reorganization stripped 5,000 jobs from its payroll, saving BP more than $4 billion in operating costs, according to a report sent to ProPublica by Fadel Gheit, an investment analyst for Oppenheimer.


On April 27, as the U.S. Coast Guard worked with BP engineers to guide remote control submarines nearly a mile underwater in a futile effort to close a shut-off valve, BP told investors that its quarterly earnings were up more than 100 percent over the last year, beating expectations by a large margin. After underperforming its competition throughout the last decade, Gheit wrote, BP was the only major oil company to perform better than the S&P 500 last year.



BP's campaign to exploit protected areas



While BP was been spending big on its "Beyond Petroleum" advertising campaign to position itself as an environmentally responsible company, it also publicly backed moves by the Bush government to open up the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in Alaska to oil drilling. BP, also continues to explore for oil in environmentally sensitive areas such as the Atlantic Frontier, the foothills of the Andes and Alaska. [31]

It has also been attempting to woo environmental groups and the International Union for the Conservation of Nature into relaxing guidelines for the World's protected areas and World Heritage Area that sattes that mining and oil developments are incompatible in four of the five classes of protected areas. See BP's campaign to exploit protected areas case study.
In 1996 BP was accused of human rights violations in Colombia. Its Casanare oil field has oil reserves valued at approximately $US 40 billion. The Colombian government has a poor human rights record, and both the police and army are held responsible for serious abuses of human rights including extrajudicial killings, forced disappearances, torture and beatings. [32]

In January 2003, U.S. law courts ordered BP to allow federal inspectors unrestricted access to its Alaskan operations to verify compliance with environmental, health and safety laws. This was a modification of a five-year probation imposed on BP in 2000 after the company admitted it had illegally dumped hazardous waste from the Endicott Island oil field between 1993 and 1995. [33]




blog.cleantechies.com/2010/04/30/bp-problems-before-oil-spill​/
Anonymous Coward
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05/04/2010 07:01 PM
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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
Greed has caused the accident
Greed is making it worse
TooEasyForTheElites
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05/04/2010 07:01 PM
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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
Here fishy fishy, your going do die fishy because we have to shut down the billion dollar fishing industry which is a threat to our final NWO plan.

TooEasyForTheElites
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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
The exact makeup of the dispersants is kept secret under competitive trade laws, but a worker safety sheet for one product, called Corexit, says it includes 2-butoxyethanol, a compound associated with headaches, vomiting and reproductive problems at high doses.
 Quoting: SwampRatLost 960462


Wow, they don't even have to disclose what they are dumping in the water. This just gets better and better.
No one has ever seen a perfect circle, nor a perfectly straight line, yet everyone knows what a circle and a straight line are.
Perceived circles or lines are not exactly circular or straight, and true circles and lines could never be detected since by definition they are sets of infinitely small points.
TooEasyForTheElites
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05/04/2010 07:04 PM
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Re: IS BP HIDING THE AMOUNT OF OIL BEING SPILLED, WITH DISPERSANTS?????
And I know it's "you're" not your, before the spelling bee monkeys join in.





GLP