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BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead

 
lime flavoured  (OP)

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06/02/2010 12:45 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
It would be just as easy (if not easier) to kill as many people with a razor sharp piece of steel in a crowded place as it would with a gun.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 990079


True. You have to be less accurate to use a sword or similar, but a gun allows you more distance and leaves you less vulnerable to counter attacks.
Anonymous Coward
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06/02/2010 12:45 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
oh isnt it against the law to have guns in the UK? hmmm...


It's a common misperception that people aren't allowed to have guns in the UK. But people do need permits. so not as liberal as some other countries.


Most handguns are banned (or VERY strictly controlled) though.
 Quoting: lime flavoured


and the comparable firearms homicide rate reflects that.
pineapple

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06/02/2010 12:46 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
Here is some info from the net on gun control in the UK
[link to www.gunrunner.cc]
Not sure how up to date it is though.
Anonymous Coward
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06/02/2010 12:46 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
All I have to say is thank fuck guns are banned in this country, so we never see things like this.

Thus the false flag from the anti gunners. Had there been more guns the shooter would have been stopped much sooner or never have tried such a thing in the first place.
 Quoting: The Equalizer 989438


bullshit as amply proven by the rate of these events in your heavily armed country compared to the UK
Anonymous Coward
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06/02/2010 12:47 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
criminals will get hold of guns, and kill, whether they're legal or not, and decent law abiding people will STILL be decent law abiding PROTECTED people.


yet in every country where gun control is laxer than the UK more people are killed per capita by criminals weilding guns than are in the UK.

ergo you justification flies in the face of actual real life experience.

the idea of relaxing gun laws so people can defend themselves is as moronic as justifying speeding as a way to avoid accidents because you are on the roads for less time.

facile, flawed and demonstrably wrongheaded.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 988736


don't give a fuck.

sick of all the control.

you live, you die.

try telling that fella who 'went for a walk' only to have his brains splattered all over the street how safe it is here right now. or that farmer, doing his job, only to be blasted away.

fuck you and your 'it's safe here' bullshit.

arm the people!
lime flavoured  (OP)

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06/02/2010 12:48 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
All I have to say is thank fuck guns are banned in this country, so we never see things like this.

Thus the false flag from the anti gunners. Had there been more guns the shooter would have been stopped much sooner or never have tried such a thing in the first place.


bullshit as amply proven by the rate of these events in your heavily armed country compared to the UK
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 988736


You have to account for the difference in population though (I'm not saying you're not, just making it clear).
Anonymous Coward
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06/02/2010 12:51 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
All I have to say is thank fuck guns are banned in this country, so we never see things like this.


1 guns aren't banned in the UK only some types are

2 last time was dunblaine in 97 and the time before that hungerford in 86, hardly a weekly occurance.


3 also the type of weapons used in dunblaine and hungerford were prior to the incidents legally obtainable and only subsequently banned following the incidents


it's STILL a policy failure, no matter how it's spun.

these things will happen, whether guns are banned or not, simply because decent law abiding people will still be decent law abiding people whether they own guns or not, and murdering c*nts like this Bird fella will get hold of guns regardless.

it's as simple as that!

The ban on guns is a FAILURE, as a policy.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 978129



The comparative statistics from legislative region to legislative region say otherwise.


basically your arguemnt is that banning guns does not prevent gun crime, no control method is fool proof heavily legislating their ownership has undeniably reduced the number and frequency of their usage. as such the ban has a beneficial if not 100% successful effect.

I doubt you would argue that criminalising pedophilia is a pointless failure so why argue that about guns.
Anonymous Coward
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06/02/2010 12:53 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
Guy riding his bike on this beautiful day....BANG...dead..so sad.
Anonymous Coward
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06/02/2010 12:54 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
All I have to say is thank fuck guns are banned in this country, so we never see things like this.

Thus the false flag from the anti gunners. Had there been more guns the shooter would have been stopped much sooner or never have tried such a thing in the first place.


bullshit as amply proven by the rate of these events in your heavily armed country compared to the UK


You have to account for the difference in population though (I'm not saying you're not, just making it clear).
 Quoting: lime flavoured



per capita is the typical method we could also consider the urbanisation impact on violent crime and the underlying propensity of a particular population to participate in violent crime

per capita the UK gun homicide rate is dwarfed by that of the US

yet our pop density and urbanisation levels are higher and our propensity to violent crime not including guns is also higher.
Anonymous Coward
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06/02/2010 12:55 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
criminals will get hold of guns, and kill, whether they're legal or not, and decent law abiding people will STILL be decent law abiding PROTECTED people.


yet in every country where gun control is laxer than the UK more people are killed per capita by criminals weilding guns than are in the UK.

ergo you justification flies in the face of actual real life experience.

the idea of relaxing gun laws so people can defend themselves is as moronic as justifying speeding as a way to avoid accidents because you are on the roads for less time.

facile, flawed and demonstrably wrongheaded.


don't give a fuck.

sick of all the control.

you live, you die.

try telling that fella who 'went for a walk' only to have his brains splattered all over the street how safe it is here right now. or that farmer, doing his job, only to be blasted away.

fuck you and your 'it's safe here' bullshit.

arm the people!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 978129


The goverment will arm the people only if we're about to be invaded...like ww3 for example.

Do you live London? You seriously want more guns on the streets?
Anonymous Coward
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06/02/2010 12:56 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
Sellafield Nuclear plant on lockdown???
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


to be safe...
Anonymous Coward
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06/02/2010 12:57 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
I fear that this case will be investigated in it's entirey but the local plod

the problem is that Bird was a Mason

the police are currently being rather cagey about announcing whether he held a permit for the weapons he used (or at all).

as such there is every possibility that the police will cover up their complicity by negligence in this issue by hiding the facts about if and how he was allowed to obtain weaponry.

PUBLIC ENQUIRY
lime flavoured  (OP)

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06/02/2010 12:58 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
Our propensity to violent crime not including guns is also higher.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 988736


Couldn't it be claimed then that gun control reduces shootings, but increases other violence?
pineapple

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06/02/2010 12:58 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
So does anyone have some stats on gun crime - comparing countries?
I get the impression that in the US, curbs on guns are viewed as an infringement on freedom, whereas the average Brit sees gun control as something of a blessing.
No one I know is remotely interested in having a gun. But I'm thinking of getting one before 2012!
As for this incident, are we not seeing an increase in such events world wide? A psychologist on the radio just now was putting it down to a growing disenfranchisement with society.

Last Edited by pineapple on 06/02/2010 01:00 PM
Anonymous Coward
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06/02/2010 01:00 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
criminals will get hold of guns, and kill, whether they're legal or not, and decent law abiding people will STILL be decent law abiding PROTECTED people.


yet in every country where gun control is laxer than the UK more people are killed per capita by criminals weilding guns than are in the UK.

ergo you justification flies in the face of actual real life experience.

the idea of relaxing gun laws so people can defend themselves is as moronic as justifying speeding as a way to avoid accidents because you are on the roads for less time.

facile, flawed and demonstrably wrongheaded.


don't give a fuck.

sick of all the control.

you live, you die.

try telling that fella who 'went for a walk' only to have his brains splattered all over the street how safe it is here right now. or that farmer, doing his job, only to be blasted away.

fuck you and your 'it's safe here' bullshit.

arm the people!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 978129


[link to subjunctive.net]
Anonymous Coward
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06/02/2010 01:01 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
Guy riding his bike on this beautiful day....BANG...dead..so sad.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 989301


guy riding his bike one day to work bang crunch crushed by a truck, so sad.


the chances of being shot why cycling are vanishingly small compared to being ran over by a protitute murdering truck driver.

to those proposing a free for all for every nutter to get a gun shall we provide the entire population with unrestricted access to trucks too?
Anonymous Coward
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06/02/2010 01:01 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
Guy riding his bike on this beautiful day....BANG...dead..so sad.


guy riding his bike one day to work bang crunch crushed by a truck, so sad.


the chances of being shot why cycling are vanishingly small compared to being ran over by a protitute murdering truck driver.

to those proposing a free for all for every nutter to get a gun shall we provide the entire population with unrestricted access to trucks too?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 988736


You don't already?
Anonymous Coward
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06/02/2010 01:04 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
Our propensity to violent crime not including guns is also higher.


Couldn't it be claimed then that gun control reduces shootings, but increases other violence?
 Quoting: lime flavoured



seatbelts reduce the number of car fatalities but increase the number of other injuries

crash helmets reduce the number of fatal brain injuries but increase the number of bikers who wind up paraplegic.

it depends, do you want a reduction in total homicide fatalities or a reduction in knife fatalities at the cost of a massively disproportionate increase in overall and gun fatalities?
lime flavoured  (OP)

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06/02/2010 01:04 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
Guy riding his bike on this beautiful day....BANG...dead..so sad.


guy riding his bike one day to work bang crunch crushed by a truck, so sad.


the chances of being shot why cycling are vanishingly small compared to being ran over by a protitute murdering truck driver.

to those proposing a free for all for every nutter to get a gun shall we provide the entire population with unrestricted access to trucks too?


You don't already?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 990079


To be fair, the restrictions on truck drivers are pretty tight these days lol.
lime flavoured  (OP)

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06/02/2010 01:05 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
it depends, do you want a reduction in total homicide fatalities or a reduction in knife fatalities at the cost of a massively disproportionate increase in overall and gun fatalities?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 988736


From a rather cynical point of view, if the overall numbers stay the same, does it matter?
Anonymous Coward
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06/02/2010 01:07 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
Guy riding his bike on this beautiful day....BANG...dead..so sad.


guy riding his bike one day to work bang crunch crushed by a truck, so sad.


the chances of being shot why cycling are vanishingly small compared to being ran over by a protitute murdering truck driver.

to those proposing a free for all for every nutter to get a gun shall we provide the entire population with unrestricted access to trucks too?


You don't already?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 990079



no we have a medical and specific driving test for HGV usage to ensure those using them in public can do so safely.

again it's not 100% but the alternative is to allow free access and watch the roads decend into unregulated carnage.

why do you not have a specific driving test for HGV's in OZ?
Anonymous Coward
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06/02/2010 01:07 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
Guy riding his bike on this beautiful day....BANG...dead..so sad.


guy riding his bike one day to work bang crunch crushed by a truck, so sad.


the chances of being shot why cycling are vanishingly small compared to being ran over by a protitute murdering truck driver.

to those proposing a free for all for every nutter to get a gun shall we provide the entire population with unrestricted access to trucks too?


You don't already?


To be fair, the restrictions on truck drivers are pretty tight these days lol.
 Quoting: lime flavoured


I hope they're given monthly psych evals just to be sure. My childrens' safety is paramount.
teamster

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06/02/2010 01:07 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep
.
This is a must see video......This woman describes why we have, and should protect our second amendment.
[link to video.google.com]
.
.
Rights do not require government registration, certification, or approval, and are not subject to any form of taxation otherwise they are not rights, they are privileges granted at the discretion of the government, controlled by the government, and revocable by the government. By Brian Puckett.
[link to www.geoffmetcalf.com]
Anonymous Coward
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06/02/2010 01:10 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
Guy riding his bike on this beautiful day....BANG...dead..so sad.


guy riding his bike one day to work bang crunch crushed by a truck, so sad.


the chances of being shot why cycling are vanishingly small compared to being ran over by a protitute murdering truck driver.

to those proposing a free for all for every nutter to get a gun shall we provide the entire population with unrestricted access to trucks too?


You don't already?



no we have a medical and specific driving test for HGV usage to ensure those using them in public can do so safely.

again it's not 100% but the alternative is to allow free access and watch the roads decend into unregulated carnage.

why do you not have a specific driving test for HGV's in OZ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 988736


If they are anything like drivers down here (and I'm sure that they wouldn't be much different) it wouldn't take much to unhinge them to potentially use the vehicle as a weapon of mass destruction.

We must stop the terror.


Pathetic.
Anonymous Coward
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06/02/2010 01:11 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep
 Quoting: teamster



Yep - sad, isn't it?
teamster

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06/02/2010 01:12 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep sheep



Yep - sad, isn't it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 990079


Yup.....
.
This is a must see video......This woman describes why we have, and should protect our second amendment.
[link to video.google.com]
.
.
Rights do not require government registration, certification, or approval, and are not subject to any form of taxation otherwise they are not rights, they are privileges granted at the discretion of the government, controlled by the government, and revocable by the government. By Brian Puckett.
[link to www.geoffmetcalf.com]
Anonymous Coward
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06/02/2010 01:13 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
The real tragedy is, gun control only allows crooks and nuts to have guns.


I for one aren't arguing with you.
 Quoting: lime flavoured



sophistry. It doesn't "allow" any such thing, inefficiencies in enforcing the law (and piss poor penalties) leave criminals willing and able to obtain and possess guns HOWEVER the are breaking the law and should face massively severe sanctions for doing so to deter them.

gun control also does not only allow crooks to have guns there are tens of thousands of legally held firearms in the UK. are you claiming they are all nuts and crooks?.
Anonymous Coward
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06/02/2010 01:16 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
Our propensity to violent crime not including guns is also higher.


Couldn't it be claimed then that gun control reduces shootings, but increases other violence?
 Quoting: lime flavoured



I heard there is alot of knife crime there. Blunt weapons ouch. I would rather be shot somewhere than hit in the head with a bat.
fillantpre
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06/02/2010 01:16 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
oh isnt it against the law to have guns in the UK? hmmm...



Reminds me of the fact that "Carbine Williams" who was doing time for killing a federal agent in a gun battle at his still, covertly made and perfected the M1 Carbine[a damned sweet little battle rifle]while locked up in the 1930s. Where there is a will, there is a way.




But we don't want you brits to know that


Interesting.

It's not all that hard for people to get guns here,even though they are illegal. Also you can still get shotguns legally.
 Quoting: lime flavoured



guns are illegal in the UK? Cool.............

I didn't know dat.........
lime flavoured  (OP)

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06/02/2010 01:17 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Cumbria (UK) Shooting: 12 dead up to 25 injured Confirmed: Suspect Dead
The real tragedy is, gun control only allows crooks and nuts to have guns.


I for one aren't arguing with you.



sophistry. It doesn't "allow" any such thing, inefficiencies in enforcing the law (and piss poor penalties) leave criminals willing and able to obtain and possess guns HOWEVER the are breaking the law and should face massively severe sanctions for doing so to deter them.

gun control also does not only allow crooks to have guns there are tens of thousands of legally held firearms in the UK. are you claiming they are all nuts and crooks?.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 988736


I don't think anyone is saying that. I think the problem isn't that gun control is too strict, but that the law in some areas isn't clear and isn't widely understood. People seem to assume that all guns are banned.





GLP