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Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.

 
Anonymous Coward
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06/06/2010 03:11 AM
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Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
The Shroud of Turin
The Shroud of Turin is considered by many to be the burial cloth of Jesus after He was Crucified. This conclusion seems really unbelievable once the actual facts are considered.

The Shroud of Turin is definitely very old. It can be traced back to 1354 AD with good documentation. Prior to that year, no evidence seems to exist about it. In 1578, it was placed in the Cathedral of Turin, Italy, where it remains (and where it received its popular name).

The Shroud is a piece of linen cloth 14'3" long by 3'7" wide. The unusual thing about it is that it appears to have an image of the front and back of a man who was about 6' tall. The image appears as a negative rather than a positive image, and it shows features that can be interpreted as marks of crucifixion.

That image is nowhere near as distinct as most people think! It is nearly invisible to the human eye. The image that is usually presented is an ENHANCED image, which DOES appear to show the image of a person, which is just barely recognizable to a person looking at the cloth.

The implication is that this long cloth was laid flat, the body was laid on top of half of it and then the other half of the cloth was folded back over the body. This situation may certainly have been true for whoever the person was whose image is preserved in the cloth. Modern science cannot explain how the images could have appeared in the cloth and cannot duplicate the results by any known means.

However, that person could not possibly have been Jesus, for at least two independent reasons.
Burial Rituals
In the day of Jesus, Jewish society was incredibly structured. Every aspect of life was precisely defined and controlled by religious beliefs. This organization of life included burial rituals.

The Bible is even very clear on this matter. John 19:38-40 is very precise in indicating that Joseph of Arimathaea and Nicodemus prepared Jesus' body in the manner of the Jews for proper burial. This procedure involves extensive wrapping of the body, while including a LOT of myrrh and aloes that would get placed between the various layers of cloth. Specifically, John 19:40 says that "Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury."

The amount of myrrh and aloes used in this ritual was a sign of the respect for that individual. It was common to use great quantities of spices for embalming the dead. When Rabbi Gamaliel died around the same time, 80 pounds of spices were used in preparing his body. The same general situation is known regarding the death of Aristobulus. So the hundred pounds of myrrh and aloes mentioned in John 19:39 is generally in line with other highly respected people of the time.

Merrill Tenney describes the Jewish custom as follows: In preparing a body for burial according to Jewish custom, it was usually washed and straightened, and then bandaged tightly from the armpits to the ankles in strips of linen about a foot wide. Aromatic spices, often of a gummy consistency, were placed between the wrappings or folds. They served partially as a preservative and partially as a cement to glue the cloth wrappings into a solid covering. (from: The Reality of the Resurrection).

In some parts of Syria, this burial custom is still observed. In both the ancient and modern procedure, and in the description of the custom, the head was never wrapped in such a way and the face would remain uncovered. It is very likely that the neck and upper shoulders were also not wrapped in the linen strips.

The spices, the myrrh and the aloes, may have been placed dry or in the gummy consistency mentioned above. If they were placed dry between the various layers and folds of the linen, in the case of Jesus, it would not seem that we would still have the 'glue' effect mentioned above. However, in addition, a semi-liquid unguent such as nard was initially used to anoint the body. The effect of this would be to cause the powdered myrrh and aloes near the body to strongly adhere to the body and to the layers of linen. Outer layers of myrrh and the aloes might have remained as a dry powder.

The point being made here is that in either case, this complex and involved wrapping of many narrow strips of cloth would naturally have stuck together so strongly as to effectively make a relatively rigid 'cocoon' around the body.

The head and hair were anointed with the nard unguent, but the powdered spices do not appear to have been applied to the head or face. A small separate 'face cloth' or 'napkin' was generally placed on the face or around the head. John 20:7 refers to this separate cloth, so this aspect of the custom was definitely used regarding Jesus. Rather than ONE piece of cloth, certainly at least two separate pieces are described here.

Several points should be noted. A HUNDRED POUNDS of myrrh and aloes were applied during the burial preparation. If a single sheet, such as the Shroud of Turin was used as the burial cloth, how could they have applied such a great amount of spices? Jewish custom did not involve using a single cloth, but rather a number of long strips of linen that were tightly wrapped many times around the body. The presence of the myrrh and the nard would have made the burial clothes become extremely rigid. The burial clothes were never extended to cover the head or face but only wrapped the body.

The Shroud of Turin contradicts each of these known facts. It purports to show both the body and head and face of Jesus. It purports to be a single loose layer of cloth under and over the body, which is very different from the Jewish custom that was actually followed. Actually, such a burial would have been extremely disrespectful of Jesus, something that Joseph of Arimathaea would certainly not have done or allowed. No matter how carefully strips were wrapped around the body, it would be impossible to get a full body image, even if the face was not included. The Shroud of Turin is apparently not as physically rigid as the burial clothes of Jesus had to have been. It is not saturated with great amounts of myrrh and aloes, although it could be argued that such materials may have evaporated over the centuries (but precise chemical analysis should still show their presence, considering the original amount of 100 pounds, almost comparable to the body weight of Jesus Himself!).
DNA
The other great reason why the Shroud of Turin could not actually be the burial cloth of Jesus has to do with DNA. If it actually IS the burial cloth of Jesus, then microscopic amounts of the DNA of Jesus must necessarily still be present in the cloth or in the nard or in the myrrh. If that was really the case, then some idiot scientist would some day get the brilliant idea that he could 'clone' Jesus from that microscopic sample. That theoretical clone would not actually be Our Jesus, but, in a sense, it still WOULD be Jesus. God would never allow a situation where we might be able to do such a stupid thing. In addition to the factual arguments presented above, this consideration adds another reason why the Shroud of Turin cannot actually be the burial cloth of Jesus.

It is still a remarkable piece of linen. Until some day when science can figure out how such an image could appear on it, and possibly duplicate the appearance, we will all remain mystified by the Shroud of Turin. But we should not consider it to be Jesus' burial cloth, because it clearly could not be, no matter how much we might all wish it were.

History
From approximately 1354 AD on, there are good historical records which indicate where the Shroud of Turin was at all times. But prior to that day, there are NO historical references to it at all. IF there had actually be a true piece of cloth which had even TOUCHED the Body of Jesus, it would have been treasured from the very first day to today, as being probably the MOST important artifact of history! But there was NO mention of it at all, for over 1300 years.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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06/06/2010 03:22 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
bump
the fantasies false teaching and forgeries are many, and they are all the catholic church uses to hold on with its dead hanad to the myth of it's orgins, which are all based upon a lie. The truth is they are the ones who inherited the fatherhood of the devil from Pagan Rome, the means by which the dragon would decieve the world and keep them from the light of the goodnews of Jesus Christ by replacing it with their traditions and forgeries wars, tortures holocausts and wordly lusts..
Sir.Kalin

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06/06/2010 03:24 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
Yep,

Good points OP!

:LordKayleSig4:
- "Your best investment is ammo, because it's going to weird quickly." - AC 1196210

- "Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God" - Thomas Jefferson's Personal Seal
Anonymous Coward
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06/06/2010 03:26 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
The other great reason why the Shroud of Turin could not actually be the burial cloth of Jesus has to do with DNA. If it actually IS the burial cloth of Jesus, then microscopic amounts of the DNA of Jesus must necessarily still be present in the cloth or in the nard or in the myrrh. If that was really the case, then some idiot scientist would some day get the brilliant idea that he could 'clone' Jesus from that microscopic sample. That theoretical clone would not actually be Our Jesus, but, in a sense, it still WOULD be Jesus. God would never allow a situation where we might be able to do such a stupid thing. In addition to the factual arguments presented above, this consideration adds another reason why the Shroud of Turin cannot actually be the burial cloth of Jesus.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 994139




Hahahaha.


Thats a reason? I don't believe its the actual shroud either but that is the lamest thing I've ever heard.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 994138
Malaysia
06/06/2010 03:29 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
O' c'mon !

I am a Catholic and I never believe in all those nonsense anyway.

So fuck off, OP. Do not blame the Catholic Church for the doings of some idiots with tall air-pump hats.
Anonymous Coward
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06/06/2010 03:29 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
Yep,

Good points OP!

 Quoting: Sir.Kalin

Talking to yer self a habit?

The Shroud is the burial cloth of Jesus. It's funny watching you godless turds clammor at the science that backs up the cloth while quoting old tired bullshit lies.
The muslims hate it too. See, you all do have something in common besides your final destination.
Anonymous Coward
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06/06/2010 03:30 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
The Shroud of Turin is definitely very old. It can be traced back to 1354 AD with good documentation. Prior to that year, no evidence seems to exist about it. In 1578, it was placed in the Cathedral of Turin, Italy, where it remains (and where it received its popular name).


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 994139


Wrong. Typical ignoramus claiming their own shit is truth.
Sir.Kalin

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06/06/2010 03:38 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
Yep,

Good points OP!


Talking to yer self a habit?

The Shroud is the burial cloth of Jesus. It's funny watching you godless turds clammor at the science that backs up the cloth while quoting old tired bullshit lies.
The muslims hate it too. See, you all do have something in common besides your final destination.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 754098


What the fuck are you talking about?

I am NOT Godless, I am deist

[link to www.deism.com]

Nor am I the OP, you dipshit.


Last Edited by Lord.Kayle on 06/06/2010 03:38 AM
:LordKayleSig4:
- "Your best investment is ammo, because it's going to weird quickly." - AC 1196210

- "Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God" - Thomas Jefferson's Personal Seal
Anonymous Coward
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06/06/2010 03:43 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
Yep,

Good points OP!


Talking to yer self a habit?

The Shroud is the burial cloth of Jesus. It's funny watching you godless turds clammor at the science that backs up the cloth while quoting old tired bullshit lies.
The muslims hate it too. See, you all do have something in common besides your final destination.


What the fuck are you talking about?

I am NOT Godless, I am deist

[link to www.deism.com]

Nor am I the OP, you dipshit.

 Quoting: Sir.Kalin

994139
994131
Proxy post 8 numbers off?

I guess it's just luck.

Jesus is God so you are "Godless".
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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06/06/2010 03:46 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
O' c'mon !

I am a Catholic and I never believe in all those nonsense anyway.

So fuck off, OP. Do not blame the Catholic Church for the doings of some idiots with tall air-pump hats.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 994138


But it is the catholic church that does it.
Anonymous Coward
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06/06/2010 03:47 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
I think anything that has its records starting at the beginning during the Renaissance is questionable. There was a lot of artistic men during this time who could find any old piece of cloth and modify it.
Anonymous Coward
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Malaysia
06/06/2010 03:51 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
O' c'mon !

I am a Catholic and I never believe in all those nonsense anyway.

So fuck off, OP. Do not blame the Catholic Church for the doings of some idiots with tall air-pump hats.





But it is the catholic church that does it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 994139








There were like only a few tall hat assholes that were connected to that piece of cloth and you blame the entire Catholic Church for that?

Oh fuck off, OP !
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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06/06/2010 03:52 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
Another thing that need to be said to some people, specifically those who call themselves "Catholic"

'Your not Universal, you just a very naughty boy.'
Anonymous Coward
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06/06/2010 03:52 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
Yep,

Good points OP!


Talking to yer self a habit?

The Shroud is the burial cloth of Jesus. It's funny watching you godless turds clammor at the science that backs up the cloth while quoting old tired bullshit lies.
The muslims hate it too. See, you all do have something in common besides your final destination.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 754098


Calling people turds, how christlike of you.


I have Jesus burial cloth in my closet, if you don't believe me your going to hell.

Where in the bible does it say believe every claim someone makes through history?
pauldamo

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06/06/2010 03:57 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
i always thought it was made by Leonardo Da Vinci and it was his face,but not shore if it was a commission or not.
Anonymous Coward
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06/06/2010 03:57 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
Yep,

Good points OP!


Talking to yer self a habit?

The Shroud is the burial cloth of Jesus. It's funny watching you godless turds clammor at the science that backs up the cloth while quoting old tired bullshit lies.
The muslims hate it too. See, you all do have something in common besides your final destination.


Calling people turds, how christlike of you.


I have Jesus burial cloth in my closet, if you don't believe me your going to hell.

Where in the bible does it say believe every claim someone makes through history?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 878584

It's the general blasphemy and trolling that is typical here. As for the turd comment, just calling it like I see it. The trolls are turds who proclaim lies and deciet even after debunkment, which the OPost is, tired debunked BS.
Anonymous Coward
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06/06/2010 03:59 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
O' c'mon !

I am a Catholic and I never believe in all those nonsense anyway.

So fuck off, OP. Do not blame the Catholic Church for the doings of some idiots with tall air-pump hats.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 994138


Ok we'll just blame them for helping perpetuate pedophilia and child abuse...
Anonymous Coward
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06/06/2010 03:59 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
i always thought it was made by Leonardo Da Vinci and it was his face,but not shore if it was a commission or not.
 Quoting: pauldamo


The most popular image of Jesus is the Italian guy image.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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06/06/2010 04:00 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
I knew the shroud to be fake, once i believed in Jesus to be the Son of God and read and took his word seriously.
Anonymous Coward
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Brazil
06/06/2010 04:02 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
It is real and just bastards and idiots believe it is fake.
Keep dreaming freaks!
Anonymous Coward
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06/06/2010 04:03 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
It's the general blasphemy and trolling that is typical here. As for the turd comment, just calling it like I see it. The trolls are turds who proclaim lies and deciet even after debunkment, which the OPost is, tired debunked BS.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 754098


What do you care? If you or others believe in Jesus because of this Shroud than you really don't have faith.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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06/06/2010 04:03 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
And this speaks for itself

"Turin Shroud has blood of crucified man, says Pope. Monday, 3 May 2010"

Say no more, 1,500 years of persicution and inquisitions , unheard of torure and horror.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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06/06/2010 04:06 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
It's the general blasphemy and trolling that is typical here. As for the turd comment, just calling it like I see it. The trolls are turds who proclaim lies and deciet even after debunkment, which the OPost is, tired debunked BS.


What do you care? If you or others believe in Jesus because of this Shroud than you really don't have faith.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 878584

Exactly, why else do you think the catholic church has a history of promoting such frauds??
It is aprt of its job to decieve men, and turrn them to useless and dumb idols. Their church are full of them and their teachings are made up blasphemies that have nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus Christ, the law or the prophets.
Anonymous Coward
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06/06/2010 04:08 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
May scientists have put all of this and conclued what you say:)
Free Planet
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United Kingdom
06/06/2010 04:13 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
SHROUD OF TURIN

a chemical-photo-invented piece of Italian cloth for a politico-finance-invented Italian personage called Jesus Christ - on your knees to your Vatican Overlords.

now that is irony.

:)
Anonymous Coward
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06/06/2010 04:21 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
Exactly, why else do you think the catholic church has a history of promoting such frauds??
It is aprt of its job to decieve men, and turrn them to useless and dumb idols. Their church are full of them and their teachings are made up blasphemies that have nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus Christ, the law or the prophets.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 994139


True, and the Catholic Church was basically ran like the mafia back then. Corruption, greed, death all over the place.

Today's sex scandals is the Catholic Church on good behavior.
Anonymous Coward
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06/06/2010 04:32 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
Right op Im calling you out, lets debate this.



Ill start:
as to your assumption that its a fake because you say that vast amounts of aloe and myrh would have produced a different effect on the surviving cloth let me remind you that JESUS DIED JUST BEFORE THE SABBATH.
His Body was HURRIEDLY PREPARED FOR BURIAL, it wasnt a typical jewish burial simply because they didnt have time and it was done in haste.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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06/06/2010 04:35 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
bump
Anonymous Coward
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06/06/2010 04:42 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
[link to www.shroudstory.com]

Facts for you OP

I don't need a piece of cloth in my faith

but please

your points are lame vs hard facts
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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06/06/2010 04:44 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
Right op Im calling you out, lets debate this.



Ill start:
as to your assumption that its a fake because you say that vast amounts of aloe and myrh would have produced a different effect on the surviving cloth let me remind you that JESUS DIED JUST BEFORE THE SABBATH.
His Body was HURRIEDLY PREPARED FOR BURIAL, it wasnt a typical jewish burial simply because they didnt have time and it was done in haste.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 994166


All was done according to custom notice "LINEN CLOTHES" PLURAL AND SEPERATE SINGULAR CLOTH FOR HEAD WRAPPING

38And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus.


39And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight. 40Then took they the body of Jesus, and "wound it in linen clothes with the spices", as "the manner of the Jews is to bury". 41Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid. 42There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation day; for the sepulchre was nigh at hand.

[link to kingjbible.com]


And The ressurection

4So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre. 5And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen "clothes" lying; yet went he not in
6Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen "clothes" lie,

7And the napkin, that was about his "head", not lying with the linen "clothes", but wrapped together in a place by itself. [link to kingjbible.com]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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06/06/2010 04:47 AM
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Re: Breaking News- The Shroud Of Turin Definitly a fake.
Exactly, why else do you think the catholic church has a history of promoting such frauds??
It is aprt of its job to decieve men, and turrn them to useless and dumb idols. Their church are full of them and their teachings are made up blasphemies that have nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus Christ, the law or the prophets.


True, and the Catholic Church was basically ran like the mafia back then. Corruption, greed, death all over the place.

Today's sex scandals is the Catholic Church on good behavior.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 878584

Amazing comment





GLP