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For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:

 
Phydeau
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06/15/2010 12:31 PM
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For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
All I ask is that you read what I say with an open mind, do not take anything I say as a personal attack upon your beliefs and digest these words without a knee-jerk reaction because I disagree with you.

If you, the reader will maintain that simple common courtesy, I will do my utmost to continue to offer you that same respect.

In the scientific world, it's not a matter of if it's "right" in the sense that most understand the term "right. It's a matter of functionality. The current model of natural selection (and on a larger scale, evolutionary theory) is used as a model that eloquently, accurately and predictably can be used for other, more complex models to be built upon. Many bodies of scientific study rely upon these models to build upon, paleontology, genetics, botany and animal husbandry, just to name a few.

Those that wish to have the current models replaced simply (not really so simple) have to do one thing: Develop a model that more eloquently, accurately and concisely describes observations to allow predictability and functionality. So often people insist on "proof" (which in intellectual use is actually a mathematical term, not a scientific one). What's more, very often I see people insisting on someone providing evidence of a GENUS jump, not a SPECIES jump. This simply demonstrates the poster's misunderstanding of what natural selection and evolutionary theory describes. No proof of a genus jump should be expected in defense of natural selection, for natural selection never made this claim. It is nothing more than a straw man argument. (Sadly, most proponents of natural selection theory don't even realize this, hence showing that they too, do not understand the very theory they're defending.)

I can't speak for every proponent of natural selection and evolutionary models. However, me personally (and I'm certain the majority of the scientific community), I fully understand that these models are far from perfect. If/when a better model is presented, it will be accepted by the scientific body. Certainly, like any other revolutionary model is presented, there will be scientists that will cling to their paradigm. (I suspect this is why they're called "revolutionary" ... they cause an intellectual revolution. A civil war of the intellectual, if you will) It always happens that way. Has happened many times in the past and will most certainly happen again.

The thing is, until such time a a "more perfect" model is "discovered", this is the one that will be used. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is.

As an example I'll detail the Greek model of the heavens/solar system.

They believed everything revolved around the earth. There was supporting evidence of this (the motions of the stars). It allowed them to predict the movement of the heavens. With the exception of the "wanderers" (planets). These were hailed as Gods because they "defied the laws of science/nature". Many, many, many early scientists attempted to present models of everything in our system orbiting around the sun and the earth rotating. However, because of their fascination of the "perfection" of the circle (ironically, their religious beliefs that the Gods would not create imperfection, hence, it must be a circle is what held them back) they were unable to make it match observation and provide more predictability than the currently accepted models of everything revolving around the earth.

Finally, a model was "discovered" where the planets followed elliptical orbits and suddenly everything matched up. Things that were at that time predictable were still predicted. Additionally, now the "wanderers" were planets as well.

It was a more eloquent, more predictable model.

After a short period of the temples throwing a fit because this was an insult to the Gods and many in the scientific body of the age clinging to their paradigms that old model was replaced with the new. This is how scientific models are accepted. Has been this way since the very first alchemists.

This current model of evolutionary theory might very well be (actually, probability states it probably is) along those same lines. It's far from perfect. Might, in reality not be the "real facts". However, it offers a model that provides functionality and predictability.

There are many that insist that since this model is not perfect. Since not 100% of the evidence we find doesn't fit into it as nicely as it should that it should be abolished and not taught in schools and universities. This would be a horrible error if this were to happen. Then there would be no future growth in these sciences. Children that possess the gifts that would create future generations of scientists (that might be the ones to develop a better model!) would be deprived of a mid-way starting point. They would be forced to re-invent the wheel when they should be working towards the cog or gear.

Current models need to be taught and embraced. Their flaws need to be evident so that a desire to find a more perfect model can be developed. Even if you've got some ignorant teacher that teaches this as "fact" anyone that possesses the intelligence that will lead them to the fields that would eventually develop a more perfect model will know better, or discover in their career that everything doesn't match up. With that said, very, very few teachers or professors state "the is 100% indisputable fact". Most state, "The model as we currently understand it." or something similar.

In closing, I hope my delivery was calm and clear enough that anyone who disagrees with the current model will be able to understand why, even if it's not perfect, why it's in use. I hope they will also understand why the current model can not be "abolished" without a more perfect model presented to replace it.

It's not about proof, it's about functionality.
"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" John M. Keynes
"The way to see by [blind] faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
Real men keep Torah.
Knighted into the Army of Yahuwah on 10-9-10.

Dear disaffected Democrats: Welcome to the Libertarian Party, we think you will find our social tolerance delightful. However in exchange for this, you're going to have to find a way to be ok with people keeping their guns and more of their money.

Dear disaffected Republicans: Welcome to the Libertarian Party, we think you will find our small government economic policies to your liking. However in exchange you will have to find a way to be ok with "the gays" getting married.

Snacks are on the table, help yourself. Please introduce yourself to someone on "the other side", you might be astonished just how much you actually have in common.
ZTE

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06/15/2010 12:33 PM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
In order to live in this world, you must take life from something else.

I don't see why a creationist would have a problem with that?
Anonymous Coward
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06/15/2010 12:49 PM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
Natural selection preserves the best of an organism and has nothing to do with evolution.

Your pagan belief is enshrined dogmatically because of politics. Evolution claims have been in refute since they were first made.


Marxism, Communism and the Belief in Evolution

[link to www.youtube.com]


Darwins were Freemason Knights Templar.
[link to www.nationmaster.com]


"BRAINWASHING is not, as some anti-Christian educators and students contend, the Biblical process of training our children to love and follow God. The word "brainwashing" refers to a planned, step-by-step attempt to "wash" family-taught beliefs from the minds of those who oppose government ideology. In America, it would mean replacing the old Biblical values and world view with a new way of thinking that would support a totalitarian agenda. In other words, every child must become a peace child, a willing and active servant of a new world order."
[link to www.crossroad.to]
[link to www.deliberatedumbingdown.com]


Now we are still waiting on the actual evidences for your pagan belief..?
Phydeau  (OP)

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06/15/2010 02:23 PM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
Natural selection preserves the best of an organism and has nothing to do with evolution.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1002312


Has nothing to do with the model of evolution? It the primary key component of the theory. Additionally, my assertion was about natural selection. So, I can only see this as the very knee-jerk reaction I politely requested not be used.

Your pagan belief is enshrined dogmatically because of politics. Evolution claims have been in refute since they were first made.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1002312


I'm not a pagan, I'm a Messianic Jew. Nice try. Additionally you're just plain wrong, friend. The models currently in use are used because they are FUNCTIONAL. Doesn't mean they're "right". Did you even read my post?

Marxism, Communism and the Belief in Evolution

[link to www.youtube.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1002312


Sorry, propaganda films are not permitted in a valid debate. Please use your own words to present a model that more eloquently and accurately can be used by the scientific community upon which other models can be built.

Darwins were Freemason Knights Templar.
[link to www.nationmaster.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1002312


More propaganda. Please use your own words to present a more accurate model that can be used by the scientific body.

"BRAINWASHING is not, as some anti-Christian educators and students contend, the Biblical process of training our children to love and follow God. The word "brainwashing" refers to a planned, step-by-step attempt to "wash" family-taught beliefs from the minds of those who oppose government ideology. In America, it would mean replacing the old Biblical values and world view with a new way of thinking that would support a totalitarian agenda. In other words, every child must become a peace child, a willing and active servant of a new world order."
[link to www.crossroad.to]
[link to www.deliberatedumbingdown.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1002312


What the heck does this even have to do with the assertion I made? Wow, you're just full of knee-jerk propaganda, aren't you?

Now we are still waiting on the actual evidences for your pagan belief..?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1002312


Where are you getting "pagan" from? Do you even know what the heck "paganism" is?

I'm sorry, friend. You've not addressed a single thing I've stated in my assertion.

Additionally, "Nu-uh!" is not a valid debate retort.

You've stated a denial, not a counter assertion.

You waiting on proof you'll accept is meaningless. In fact, it's just whining.

As I stated in the very opening of my assertion:

All I ask is that you read what I say with an open mind, do not take anything I say as a personal attack upon your beliefs and digest these words without a knee-jerk reaction because I disagree with you.

If you, the reader will maintain that simple common courtesy, I will do my utmost to continue to offer you that same respect.
 Quoting: Phydeau


So, you hear "natural selection" and regurgitate about a dozen of your own words in a knee jerk reaction and present some meaningless video that doesn't even address the assertion I made.

Did you even read my post?

Please provide a more eloquent model that can be used for scientific use in predicting observations.

Last Edited by Sir Phydeau on 06/15/2010 02:46 PM
"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" John M. Keynes
"The way to see by [blind] faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
Real men keep Torah.
Knighted into the Army of Yahuwah on 10-9-10.

Dear disaffected Democrats: Welcome to the Libertarian Party, we think you will find our social tolerance delightful. However in exchange for this, you're going to have to find a way to be ok with people keeping their guns and more of their money.

Dear disaffected Republicans: Welcome to the Libertarian Party, we think you will find our small government economic policies to your liking. However in exchange you will have to find a way to be ok with "the gays" getting married.

Snacks are on the table, help yourself. Please introduce yourself to someone on "the other side", you might be astonished just how much you actually have in common.
Khim

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06/15/2010 04:32 PM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
This current model of evolutionary theory might very well be (actually, probability states it probably is) along those same lines. It's far from perfect. Might, in reality not be the "real facts". However, it offers a model that provides functionality and predictability.
 Quoting: Phydeau


Thank you so much for your insightful and well written post!! It has been a while since I've read something this enjoyable!

I posted this to another thread that kind of devolved and died, but the alleged clash between evolution and creation theory is, in my opinion, a silly thing. It has always been a problem for me to watch one side battle the other over something so -well- trivial really. Perspective is the lens through which we experience our world. Whether that world be of science or spirit or both, perspective is how we perceive what we believe to be truth.

One can not simply make a thing so by saying it. Knowledge alone is not enough to make something true. Understanding is required before any belief system can grow and mature and understanding can only be gained by a willingness on the part of the individual to accept that there is truth in all things regardless of how abstract or small that grain of truth might appear. Simply stating something to be THE truth by blind faith, though admirable in many ways, lacks an understanding that would allow that person to more easily teach others and be tolerant of each individual's right to perceive the universe in their own way and to grow and experience the belief in God (or not) at their own pace.

I came to terms with the idea of creation and evolution a long time ago. The following is my own - personal - belief.

They are actually the same thing, from a certain perspective.

God is Spirit. Perfect. The synonyms for God are Principle, Mind, Spirit, Soul, Life, Truth, and Love. Since God is perfect, He can only create that which reflects Him. God can not create imperfection.

I believe that God created Man in His image and likeness with a simple thought. God created Man - perfect. Without flaw or sin. God can not be sick. He can not sin. He can not die. Therefore, that which God creates can only reflect that which He is.

However, with my little wooden head, although I have knowledge of the above I do not understand it. I do not see myself or my fellow man as perfect. This is where I believe that science and the theory of evolution create a bridge to help me along my path toward Spiritual understanding.

For me, Evolution is Instantaneous and Perfect Creation - slowed down so that I can understand it. Does it detract from God? Not for me. It actually proves God for me since God IS Life and evolution is all about Life constantly becoming.

This is how I understand these concepts presently.

Last Edited by Khim on 06/15/2010 04:37 PM
Phydeau  (OP)

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06/15/2010 04:45 PM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
Thank you so much for your insightful and well written post!! It has been a while since I've read something this enjoyable!
 Quoting: Khim


You're welcome. And thank YOU for actually reading and replying with something well written and insightful.

I posted this to another thread that kind of devolved and died, but the alleged clash between evolution and creation theory is, in my opinion, a silly thing. It has always been a problem for me to watch one side battle the other over something so -well- trivial really. Perspective is the lens through which we experience our world. Whether that world be of science or spirit or both, perspective is how we perceive what we believe to be truth.
 Quoting: Khim


I agree, it is quite trivial. Ultimately, as I tried to make very clear in the OP, it's not a matter of "right" it's about "functionality".

I can't help but see those that rage against the model as acting on either a perceived threat to their religious beliefs or simple dogma.

If people would stop constantly insisting on proof instead of offering another model to replace it, I would honestly listen, consider, digest and adapt my own models to accommodate it. Assuming it was functional, that is.

I've yet to have the pleasure of having someone intellectually challenge the current model in this manner. Sadly.

One can not simply make a thing so by saying it. Knowledge alone is not enough to make something true. Understanding is required before any belief system can grow and mature and understanding can only be gained by a willingness on the part of the individual to accept that there is truth in all things regardless of how abstract or small that grain of truth might appear. Simply stating something to be THE truth by blind faith, though admirable in many ways, lacks an understanding that would allow that person to more easily teach others and be tolerant of each individual's right to perceive the universe in their own way and to grow and experience the belief in God (or not) at their own pace.

I came to terms with the idea of creation and evolution a long time ago. The following is my own - personal - belief.

They are actually the same thing, from a certain perspective.

God is Spirit. Perfect. The synonyms for God are Principle, Mind, Spirit, Soul, Life, Truth, and Love. Since God is perfect, He can only create that which reflects Him. God can not create imperfection.

I believe that God created Man in His image and likeness with a simple thought. God created Man - perfect. Without flaw or sin. God can not be sick. He can not sin. He can not die. Therefore, that which God creates can only reflect that which He is.

However, with my little wooden head, although I have knowledge of the above I do not understand it. I do not see myself or my fellow man as perfect. This is where I believe that science and the theory of evolution create a bridge to help me along my path toward Spiritual understanding.

For me, Evolution is Instantaneous and Perfect Creation - slowed down so that I can understand it. Does it detract from God? Not for me. It actually proves God for me since God IS Life and evolution is all about Life constantly becoming.

This is how I understand these concepts presently.
 Quoting: Khim


Just gonna let that lie there. That's beautiful. :)

Last Edited by Sir Phydeau on 06/15/2010 04:47 PM
"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" John M. Keynes
"The way to see by [blind] faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
Real men keep Torah.
Knighted into the Army of Yahuwah on 10-9-10.

Dear disaffected Democrats: Welcome to the Libertarian Party, we think you will find our social tolerance delightful. However in exchange for this, you're going to have to find a way to be ok with people keeping their guns and more of their money.

Dear disaffected Republicans: Welcome to the Libertarian Party, we think you will find our small government economic policies to your liking. However in exchange you will have to find a way to be ok with "the gays" getting married.

Snacks are on the table, help yourself. Please introduce yourself to someone on "the other side", you might be astonished just how much you actually have in common.
Aileana

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06/15/2010 04:51 PM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
I believe that God created Man in His image and likeness with a simple thought. God created Man - perfect. Without flaw or sin. God can not be sick. He can not sin. He can not die. Therefore, that which God creates can only reflect that which He is.

However, with my little wooden head, although I have knowledge of the above I do not understand it. I do not see myself or my fellow man as perfect. This is where I believe that science and the theory of evolution create a bridge to help me along my path toward Spiritual understanding.
For me, Evolution is Instantaneous and Perfect Creation - slowed down so that I can understand it. Does it detract from God? Not for me. It actually proves God for me since God IS Life and evolution is all about Life constantly becoming.

This is how I understand these concepts presently.
 Quoting: Khim


now that was just beautiful. i don't think i've ever heard anyone say it so simply and perfectly. why can't their be that perfect bridge between science and faith? are we that narrow minded that we can't have both?

beautiful post Khim

and beautiful threat OP

hf
Phydeau  (OP)

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06/15/2010 05:39 PM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
beautiful post Khim

and beautiful threat OP

hf
 Quoting: Aileana


I too can't understand why so many seem to not realize that science and religion need not be mutually exclusive.
"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" John M. Keynes
"The way to see by [blind] faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
Real men keep Torah.
Knighted into the Army of Yahuwah on 10-9-10.

Dear disaffected Democrats: Welcome to the Libertarian Party, we think you will find our social tolerance delightful. However in exchange for this, you're going to have to find a way to be ok with people keeping their guns and more of their money.

Dear disaffected Republicans: Welcome to the Libertarian Party, we think you will find our small government economic policies to your liking. However in exchange you will have to find a way to be ok with "the gays" getting married.

Snacks are on the table, help yourself. Please introduce yourself to someone on "the other side", you might be astonished just how much you actually have in common.
Anonymous Coward
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06/15/2010 07:22 PM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
Natural selection preserves the best of an organism and has nothing to do with evolution.
___

Has nothing to do with the model of evolution? It the primary key component of the theory.
 Quoting: Phydeau

NS is observed, ToE is your belief, unobserved. NS is not ToE. The creature or organism does not evolve. You've certainly proven no such thing.

Your pagan belief is enshrined dogmatically because of politics. Evolution claims have been in refute since they were first made.
___

I'm not a pagan, I'm a Messianic Jew.
 Quoting: Phydeau

Evolution is a pagan belief whether you are Jewish, Catholic or Hindu. This has been the history of evolution claims.
Pagan Evolution
[link to www.resurrectisis.org]

Marxism, Communism and the Belief in Evolution

[link to www.youtube.com]

Darwins were Freemason Knights Templar.
[link to www.nationmaster.com]

"BRAINWASHING is not, as some anti-Christian educators and students contend, the Biblical process of training our children to love and follow God. The word "brainwashing" refers to a planned, step-by-step attempt to "wash" family-taught beliefs from the minds of those who oppose government ideology. In America, it would mean replacing the old Biblical values and world view with a new way of thinking that would support a totalitarian agenda. In other words, every child must become a peace child, a willing and active servant of a new world order."
[link to www.crossroad.to]
[link to www.deliberatedumbingdown.com]


What the heck does this even have to do with the assertion I made? Wow, you're just full of knee-jerk propaganda, aren't you?
 Quoting: Phydeau

You are claiming the ToE model is here due to evidence you refuse to present. This information is relevant to your repeated claims of science your fail to present. ToE is here due to politics not science.

Now we are still waiting on the actual evidences for your pagan belief..?
___

Where are you getting "pagan" from? Do you even know what the heck "paganism" is?

You waiting on proof you'll accept is meaningless. In fact, it's just whining.
 Quoting: Phydeau

There is no proof for a billion year old earth. The fossils are not 65 million years old as claimed. These are only NLP braiwashing repeated.

You haven't proven anything. Claiming bacteria eats nylon is not evolution. It is still bacteria-proof it has not evolved at all.
Anonymous Coward
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06/15/2010 07:26 PM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
I believe that God created Man in His image and likeness with a simple thought. God created Man - perfect. Without flaw or sin. God can not be sick. He can not sin. He can not die. Therefore, that which God creates can only reflect that which He is.

However, with my little wooden head, although I have knowledge of the above I do not understand it. I do not see myself or my fellow man as perfect. This is where I believe that science and the theory of evolution create a bridge to help me along my path toward Spiritual understanding.
For me, Evolution is Instantaneous and Perfect Creation - slowed down so that I can understand it. Does it detract from God? Not for me. It actually proves God for me since God IS Life and evolution is all about Life constantly becoming.

This is how I understand these concepts presently.


now that was just beautiful. i don't think i've ever heard anyone say it so simply and perfectly. why can't their be that perfect bridge between science and faith? are we that narrow minded that we can't have both?

beautiful post Khim

and beautiful threat OP

hf
 Quoting: Aileana


That's why you are not a preacher. There is a perfect bridge between faith and science. Science fully supports the Bible and a 6000 year old earth.
Jesus is God who was here 2000 years ago recorded by all at that time. He mentioned the global flood of Noah. The Bible says he is The Creator. HISTORY and SCIENCE support the Bible.
If you have any proof for any other god we'll look at this wonderful thing..?
Phydeau  (OP)

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06/15/2010 08:31 PM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
NS is observed, ToE is your belief, unobserved. NS is not ToE. The creature or organism does not evolve. You've certainly proven no such thing.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1002312


Firstly, this post is about natural selection. So, you just said you agree.

And where have I claimed I could? Could you at least clarify what would constitute as "proof"? Why are you making this a discussion about proof? Did you not read my OP?

Evolution is a pagan belief whether you are Jewish, Catholic or Hindu. This has been the history of evolution claims.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1002312


Please explain how science is a ritualized religion. You're not making any sense, nor are you clarifying your assertions. You're just name calling.


You are claiming the ToE model is here due to evidence you refuse to present. This information is relevant to your repeated claims of science your fail to present. ToE is here due to politics not science.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1002312


Please provide a quote from this thread where I said that. You're putting words into my mouth. Again, did you even read my OP?

Now we are still waiting on the actual evidences for your pagan belief..?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1002312


Please stop calling me a pagan, you're starting to piss me off.

Provide the model that more eloquently describes observations that can be used to build other scientific models upon.

There is no proof for a billion year old earth. The fossils are not 65 million years old as claimed. These are only NLP braiwashing repeated.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1002312


I asked you a question several times now. You keep dodging it while stating I've made claims in this thread that I did not. That's called a straw man argument.

I will ask again: Provide a model that more eloquently describes observations upon which other scientific models can be built.

You haven't proven anything. Claiming bacteria eats nylon is not evolution. It is still bacteria-proof it has not evolved at all.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1002312


Ah, referencing things brought up in other threads because your feelings are hurt. I get it now.

I have not stated this in this thread. Please address the thread you're on, not some crap you're still nursing your bruised ego over elsewhere.

I will ask you again: Please provide a model that more eloquently, accurately and concisely provides predictability upon which other models can be built.

Honestly, you're just trolling. You're not even addressing any post made in this thread.

Last Edited by Sir Phydeau on 06/15/2010 09:10 PM
"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" John M. Keynes
"The way to see by [blind] faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
Real men keep Torah.
Knighted into the Army of Yahuwah on 10-9-10.

Dear disaffected Democrats: Welcome to the Libertarian Party, we think you will find our social tolerance delightful. However in exchange for this, you're going to have to find a way to be ok with people keeping their guns and more of their money.

Dear disaffected Republicans: Welcome to the Libertarian Party, we think you will find our small government economic policies to your liking. However in exchange you will have to find a way to be ok with "the gays" getting married.

Snacks are on the table, help yourself. Please introduce yourself to someone on "the other side", you might be astonished just how much you actually have in common.
Phydeau  (OP)

User ID: 960398
United States
06/15/2010 08:35 PM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
That's why you are not a preacher. There is a perfect bridge between faith and science. Science fully supports the Bible and a 6000 year old earth.
Jesus is God who was here 2000 years ago recorded by all at that time. He mentioned the global flood of Noah. The Bible says he is The Creator. HISTORY and SCIENCE support the Bible.
If you have any proof for any other god we'll look at this wonderful thing..?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1002312


What are you rambling on about?

You're not even reading the posts you're replying to. you're trolling.

Please, either address the OP and it's contents or shut up.

Last Edited by Sir Phydeau on 06/15/2010 08:36 PM
"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" John M. Keynes
"The way to see by [blind] faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
Real men keep Torah.
Knighted into the Army of Yahuwah on 10-9-10.

Dear disaffected Democrats: Welcome to the Libertarian Party, we think you will find our social tolerance delightful. However in exchange for this, you're going to have to find a way to be ok with people keeping their guns and more of their money.

Dear disaffected Republicans: Welcome to the Libertarian Party, we think you will find our small government economic policies to your liking. However in exchange you will have to find a way to be ok with "the gays" getting married.

Snacks are on the table, help yourself. Please introduce yourself to someone on "the other side", you might be astonished just how much you actually have in common.
ZTE

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06/15/2010 08:57 PM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
It's one thing to say human history has been around for 6000 years (which actually is what I believe).

It's another thing to say the universe is 6000 years old, and a much harder stretch to make.
Anonymous Coward
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06/17/2010 09:53 PM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
What are you rambling on about?


Please, either address the OP and it's contents or shut up.
 Quoting: Phydeau

U arrogant kiddie tickling knob head

you're the weirdest MF I have ever seen.

Do you still read gay mags?
Have you still got your Man on Man video collection?

Yup, look at it all day, every day. Nothing unusual. What's your point?

Quoting: Phydeau

U sick nasty infected person!

Phydeau
User ID: 960398
United States


Do you still read gay mags?
Have you still got your Man on Man video collection?

Yup, look at it all day, every day. Nothing unusual. What's your point?

U sick nasty infected person!

U Spooky shill.


Have you been keeping away from playgrounds?


I cant stop.I look at them all day, every day. Nothing unusual. What's your point?
Quoting: Phydeau

Phydeau I hear you're a kiddie tickler
you certainly look suspect.


Please, either address the OP and it's contents or shut up.
 Quoting: Phydeau
Phydeau  (OP)

User ID: 960398
United States
06/18/2010 02:26 AM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
Please, either address the OP and it's contents or shut up.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1000023


Ugh, this dude has been following nearly every thread I've posted all night.

*sigh*
"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" John M. Keynes
"The way to see by [blind] faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
Real men keep Torah.
Knighted into the Army of Yahuwah on 10-9-10.

Dear disaffected Democrats: Welcome to the Libertarian Party, we think you will find our social tolerance delightful. However in exchange for this, you're going to have to find a way to be ok with people keeping their guns and more of their money.

Dear disaffected Republicans: Welcome to the Libertarian Party, we think you will find our small government economic policies to your liking. However in exchange you will have to find a way to be ok with "the gays" getting married.

Snacks are on the table, help yourself. Please introduce yourself to someone on "the other side", you might be astonished just how much you actually have in common.
Phydeau  (OP)

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United States
06/20/2010 02:57 PM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
bumpification
"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" John M. Keynes
"The way to see by [blind] faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
Real men keep Torah.
Knighted into the Army of Yahuwah on 10-9-10.

Dear disaffected Democrats: Welcome to the Libertarian Party, we think you will find our social tolerance delightful. However in exchange for this, you're going to have to find a way to be ok with people keeping their guns and more of their money.

Dear disaffected Republicans: Welcome to the Libertarian Party, we think you will find our small government economic policies to your liking. However in exchange you will have to find a way to be ok with "the gays" getting married.

Snacks are on the table, help yourself. Please introduce yourself to someone on "the other side", you might be astonished just how much you actually have in common.
nomind

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06/20/2010 03:09 PM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
Very good article you wrote up, +1 to you.

I would add, on the subject of natural selection and by extension "evolution", that mankind has made use of the process in order to generate it's livestock and pets and many plants, sometimes without knowing how it worked, other times, quite purposely, to "breed" a specific set of desired traits
My Interesting Karma messages:

- "You are an idiot. This post proves it."
-"GLP MEMBERS BEWARE!!! THIS IS A GOVERNMENT SHILL."
- Most
moranic one given to me: When you type ".." you need to put three dots instead of two.



Thread: Nibiru, or how to appear like you know what you are talking about
Anonymous Coward
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United Kingdom
06/29/2010 08:24 AM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
bump
The Real News

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07/23/2010 07:11 AM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
Even if you've got some ignorant teacher that teaches this as "fact" anyone that possesses the intelligence that will lead them to the fields that would eventually develop a more perfect model will know better, or discover in their career that everything doesn't match up.
 Quoting: Phydeau


Well-written, understood. I agree with your philosophy on using the model as a starting point to create a better model and understanding which has always been the way with everything basically. The problem I have with this specific discussion: 1. This is the only model taught at all. What if there was only 1 religion and the rest were outlawed? Because basically, any other type of teaching is outlawed within the community right now. My roommates buddy came over the other day, "he is starting graduate school for writing right now" and we had a discussion about evolution. He refused to admit anything else was possible and told me it's 100% fact. (which is funny, because you are right, who knows how we account for the 3 million year jump) He also reported to me in detail what the big bang was and described what it looked like, and exactly how it happened. This is funny, because this is something which happened billions upon billions of years ago!! (Who knows if this is even what happened) Just because you can make a model doesn't mean it's how things were. I hear there's no argument in evolution for creationism, then I hear there's a huge argument. It's all back and forth. The fact is, his teacher and education have drilled the idea into his brain that this is how it is, and this is how the world works. He no longer has the capability to think freely about the matter to discover new truths!!!! This my friends, is sad. I agree with you 100% on using the model as a means to develop an understanding in more detail, but I think more teachers state this science as fact then you think? I like the way you view the situation though and agree! Thank you for the post.

Last Edited by The Real News on 07/23/2010 07:12 AM
Always pay attention to what is happening around you.
[link to thehalsreport.com]
The Real News

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07/23/2010 07:16 AM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
(which is funny, because you are right, who knows how we account for the 3 million year jump)
 Quoting: The Real News



I also challenge you to watch this documentary if you have not yet. It is another scientific model which is a little out there, but it is presented very well and wow. Just another thought on connecting the dots.


[link to video.google.com]
Always pay attention to what is happening around you.
[link to thehalsreport.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 995609
United States
07/23/2010 07:29 AM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
I too can't understand why so many seem to not realize that science and religion need not be mutually exclusive.
 Quoting: Phydeau



they weren't for the longest time.

I think it's different now.


The idea that life is millions + years old began as a philosiphy of the elite long before there was a supposed dating method proving it.

When a testing method was finally offered, some 200 years later, it was developed by the same people who developed the atom bomb. trustworthy?


Most are under the impression that a method to date things was invented, considered infallable, then upon using it it was discovered rocks/fossils were millions of years old.

Not true, the desire to have things be millions of years old existed LONG before any method to prove it. I believe they finally found a way to hoax the data they had always wanted in a way it could be offered as proof.


Once that was established, the foundation for the age of life and evolution could be hailed as fact.

A lot of science today is rooted in that 300 year old philosiphy, masquerading as science, in an effort to undermine belief in God.
Sir Phydeau  (OP)

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12/06/2011 01:59 AM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
Old ass post I'd forgotten about ... bumping to see if discussion can be sparked.
"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" John M. Keynes
"The way to see by [blind] faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
Real men keep Torah.
Knighted into the Army of Yahuwah on 10-9-10.

Dear disaffected Democrats: Welcome to the Libertarian Party, we think you will find our social tolerance delightful. However in exchange for this, you're going to have to find a way to be ok with people keeping their guns and more of their money.

Dear disaffected Republicans: Welcome to the Libertarian Party, we think you will find our small government economic policies to your liking. However in exchange you will have to find a way to be ok with "the gays" getting married.

Snacks are on the table, help yourself. Please introduce yourself to someone on "the other side", you might be astonished just how much you actually have in common.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 954356
Australia
12/06/2011 02:32 AM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:


Wahhh? lol at this
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 954356
Australia
12/06/2011 02:33 AM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
"That's why you are not a preacher. There is a perfect bridge between faith and science. Science fully supports the Bible and a 6000 year old earth."

I mean lol at this
Sir Phydeau  (OP)

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12/06/2011 02:38 AM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
"That's why you are not a preacher. There is a perfect bridge between faith and science. Science fully supports the Bible and a 6000 year old earth."

I mean lol at this
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 954356


Yeah, I know.
"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" John M. Keynes
"The way to see by [blind] faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
Real men keep Torah.
Knighted into the Army of Yahuwah on 10-9-10.

Dear disaffected Democrats: Welcome to the Libertarian Party, we think you will find our social tolerance delightful. However in exchange for this, you're going to have to find a way to be ok with people keeping their guns and more of their money.

Dear disaffected Republicans: Welcome to the Libertarian Party, we think you will find our small government economic policies to your liking. However in exchange you will have to find a way to be ok with "the gays" getting married.

Snacks are on the table, help yourself. Please introduce yourself to someone on "the other side", you might be astonished just how much you actually have in common.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
12/06/2011 02:51 AM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
The Darwinist model has been developed over the past century due to censorship of all opposing views from the top at the British Royal Institute founded by the followers of Francis Bacon as the marxist revolution against Christianity for their masonic nwo.

That's who founded the peer-review system to censor what is allowed to be published.
Anonymous Coward
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12/06/2011 02:54 AM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
"That's why you are not a preacher. There is a perfect bridge between faith and science. Science fully supports the Bible and a 6000 year old earth."

I mean lol at this
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 954356


Are you a Christian?

Do you believe in a global flood?

The Darwinist censors any and all science that proves a global flood and resulting fossil record, even tho the flood is recorded by cultures all around the world.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1502042
United States
12/06/2011 03:25 AM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
"That's why you are not a preacher. There is a perfect bridge between faith and science. Science fully supports the Bible and a 6000 year old earth."

I mean lol at this
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 954356


Are you a Christian?

Do you believe in a global flood?

The Darwinist censors any and all science that proves a global flood and resulting fossil record, even tho the flood is recorded by cultures all around the world.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6611492


There is no evidence for a global flood. Civilizations throughout history have settled near bodies of water resulting in similar, yet completely different flood stories. Please stop trying to spread misinformation to suit your own personal agenda.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6611492
United States
12/06/2011 03:35 AM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
"That's why you are not a preacher. There is a perfect bridge between faith and science. Science fully supports the Bible and a 6000 year old earth."

I mean lol at this
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 954356


Are you a Christian?

Do you believe in a global flood?

The Darwinist censors any and all science that proves a global flood and resulting fossil record, even tho the flood is recorded by cultures all around the world.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6611492


There is no evidence for a global flood. Civilizations throughout history have settled near bodies of water resulting in similar, yet completely different flood stories. Please stop trying to spread misinformation to suit your own personal agenda.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1502042


Says you. Other scientists disagree. The fossil record could only have been produced in a global flood. Stop censoring to suit your nwo agenda.

The polystrate fossil connects all the sediment layers. There are dino tracks in coal layers which proves they are all the same age.

Still other flood models were published in peer-reviewed science journals although censored from the textbooks.
(Experiments on Stratification by Pierre Julien & Guy Berthault, Colorado State University. Published by Geological Society of France, French Academy of Sciences, Russian Academy of Sciences Journal, and others.
[link to creation.com]
[link to bsgf.geoscienceworld.org]
video
[link to www.noevolution.org]
Anonymous Coward
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United States
12/06/2011 03:46 AM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
[link to bsgf.geoscienceworld.org]
Anonymous Coward
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12/06/2011 04:04 AM
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Re: For creationists: Why the model of natural selection is being used:
I too can't understand why so many seem to not realize that science and religion need not be mutually exclusive.
 Quoting: Phydeau



they weren't for the longest time.

I think it's different now.


The idea that life is millions + years old began as a philosiphy of the elite long before there was a supposed dating method proving it.

When a testing method was finally offered, some 200 years later, it was developed by the same people who developed the atom bomb. trustworthy?


Most are under the impression that a method to date things was invented, considered infallable, then upon using it it was discovered rocks/fossils were millions of years old.

Not true, the desire to have things be millions of years old existed LONG before any method to prove it. I believe they finally found a way to hoax the data they had always wanted in a way it could be offered as proof.


Once that was established, the foundation for the age of life and evolution could be hailed as fact.

A lot of science today is rooted in that 300 year old philosiphy, masquerading as science, in an effort to undermine belief in God.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 995609


Nicely put.
OP ,It's late and I'm cranky and not at my best, but it seems to me you've set yourself up [in your own mind at least] as unusually broadminded and tolerant, and any disagreement with YOU is therefore uncivilized beyond belief. Am I reading you aright, that I'm asked to come up with an alternative predictive model to evolution or keep quiet? [I don't even know why evolution is supposedly so useful as a theory.] I've had a standard American public education, in other words, craptastic. But even if I'd had specialized advanced "scientific" training ,would it have included any possibility of questioning evolution? If I became an academic, would my research be funded if it was about an alternative to evolution? Would even an institution that harbored me as a researcher hope to hold respect of peers? Why am I repaying your hospitality here by posting my ill-tempered, inarticulate criticism? Because it's striking to me how you manage to convey your expectation of the pitfalls to which we, your inferiors will be prone, while pretty much displaying all the same ones yourself in what you've written so far.





GLP