Is Dr. Laura right or wrong on her views of using the "N" word??? | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 657383 Canada 08/13/2010 12:53 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Who says its ok for blacks to call each other by that word? Quoting: refugee13I've heard many, many, many people say that word is demeaning and inappropriate no matter who says it. Kind of like the word "cunt". So who is the "authority" on the use of this word? Or is this just another manufactured controversy cooked up by yet another dishonest media loudmouth in search of attention? When I am riding the bus to work, I hear it being used all the time, or just listen to some of the rap songs out in the last few years... you're side-stepping the issue. Who exactly is telling Dr. Laura that its ok for blacks to use that word but not whites, and why does she seem to think they have more say so than all the people who claim the word is inappropriate no matter who says it? And why is she not concerned about her "right" to use other kinds of demeaning or hurtful language? Just coincidence I guess. |
refugee13 (OP) User ID: 835702 United States 08/13/2010 12:54 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | that's good... Quoting: ZionKillaYour thoughts, please and let's keep our heads about this... I am confused as to why when whites say it, it is degrading, but when blacks use it, it is an endearing term to each other... Do you use it? I am not going to lie...yes I have and in my opinion anyone who says they haven't is more than likely not telling the truth... Family values loving republican I see. I admitted that I have used that word and that makes me a republican? aren't you? So what if I am... I'm always right.. carry on.....Must be lonely at the top... sometimes, but I deal. "Livin' The Dream..." "Don't believe in anyone, 'cos they'll feel you so much more" "So break me down if it makes you feel right~and hate me now if it keeps you alright~you can't break me down if it takes all your might~cause I'm so much more than meets the eye..." "Some people would bitch if their ice cream was cold..." |
drakke1 User ID: 1067112 United States 08/13/2010 12:54 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | As Lenny Bruce famously tried to demonstrate years ago -- words are just words -- and if they trigger you, you need the therapy, not the speaker. The root problem on this planet is that the vast majority of this species has a consciousness level near zero, and this is especially the case with the "elites" who think they are demi gods. It takes definite effort to raise consciousnes levels, apparently too much work for the vast majority of troglodytes to handle. Aloha, "humans". Better luck next time |
refugee13 (OP) User ID: 835702 United States 08/13/2010 12:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Who says its ok for blacks to call each other by that word? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 657383I've heard many, many, many people say that word is demeaning and inappropriate no matter who says it. Kind of like the word "cunt". So who is the "authority" on the use of this word? Or is this just another manufactured controversy cooked up by yet another dishonest media loudmouth in search of attention? When I am riding the bus to work, I hear it being used all the time, or just listen to some of the rap songs out in the last few years... you're side-stepping the issue. Who exactly is telling Dr. Laura that its ok for blacks to use that word but not whites, and why does she seem to think they have more say so than all the people who claim the word is inappropriate no matter who says it? And why is she not concerned about her "right" to use other kinds of demeaning or hurtful language? Just coincidence I guess. That I cannot tell you, I only saw a short clip "Livin' The Dream..." "Don't believe in anyone, 'cos they'll feel you so much more" "So break me down if it makes you feel right~and hate me now if it keeps you alright~you can't break me down if it takes all your might~cause I'm so much more than meets the eye..." "Some people would bitch if their ice cream was cold..." |
refugee13 (OP) User ID: 835702 United States 08/13/2010 12:57 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | As Lenny Bruce famously tried to demonstrate years ago -- words are just words -- and if they trigger you, you need the therapy, not the speaker. The root problem on this planet is that the vast majority of this species has a consciousness level near zero, and this is especially the case with the "elites" who think they are demi gods. It takes definite effort to raise consciousnes levels, apparently too much work for the vast majority of troglodytes to handle. Aloha, "humans". Better luck next time Quoting: drakke1 1067112Thank you for posting that! "Livin' The Dream..." "Don't believe in anyone, 'cos they'll feel you so much more" "So break me down if it makes you feel right~and hate me now if it keeps you alright~you can't break me down if it takes all your might~cause I'm so much more than meets the eye..." "Some people would bitch if their ice cream was cold..." |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 541579 United States 08/13/2010 12:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | She can be right on target at times and gives advice and suggestions that are blunt and ovbious to caller; however, there are a few moments that she lacks empathy for callers and can cross the line to a bitch. She's a no excuse kinda gal. If you don't change what you're doing now, you will keep getting what you got. I do see how she could be cold at times and not really realize and be more sympathetic to people and in this case races. What if she went and started calling your uncle a cracker to make a point, or to hispanics, wetbacks and illegals to make a point. I'm sure we would be wondering why she has a radio show other than one from her underground garage. |
somedude1 User ID: 1063311 United States 08/13/2010 01:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | i have worked with many great blacks over the years and have made many good friends. the reason they say 'n^&$&*'to each other is took take the power of the word away from whites. and it worked. brilliant. Last Edited by somedude1 on 08/13/2010 01:04 PM |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 657383 Canada 08/13/2010 01:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Who says its ok for blacks to call each other by that word? Quoting: refugee13I've heard many, many, many people say that word is demeaning and inappropriate no matter who says it. Kind of like the word "cunt". So who is the "authority" on the use of this word? Or is this just another manufactured controversy cooked up by yet another dishonest media loudmouth in search of attention? When I am riding the bus to work, I hear it being used all the time, or just listen to some of the rap songs out in the last few years... you're side-stepping the issue. Who exactly is telling Dr. Laura that its ok for blacks to use that word but not whites, and why does she seem to think they have more say so than all the people who claim the word is inappropriate no matter who says it? And why is she not concerned about her "right" to use other kinds of demeaning or hurtful language? Just coincidence I guess. That I cannot tell you, I only saw a short clip so what is it your trying to understand then? unless of course "understanding" is really not what this is about at all. |
refugee13 (OP) User ID: 835702 United States 08/13/2010 01:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I've tuned in to Dr. Laura at times when I'm driving in my car somewhere. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 541579She can be right on target at times and gives advice and suggestions that are blunt and ovbious to caller; however, there are a few moments that she lacks empathy for callers and can cross the line to a bitch. She's a no excuse kinda gal. If you don't change what you're doing now, you will keep getting what you got. I do see how she could be cold at times and not really realize and be more sympathetic to people and in this case races. What if she went and started calling your uncle a cracker to make a point, or to hispanics, wetbacks and illegals to make a point. I'm sure we would be wondering why she has a radio show other than one from her underground garage. Gotcha...thank you! "Livin' The Dream..." "Don't believe in anyone, 'cos they'll feel you so much more" "So break me down if it makes you feel right~and hate me now if it keeps you alright~you can't break me down if it takes all your might~cause I'm so much more than meets the eye..." "Some people would bitch if their ice cream was cold..." |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 541579 United States 08/13/2010 01:02 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | As Lenny Bruce famously tried to demonstrate years ago -- words are just words -- and if they trigger you, you need the therapy, not the speaker. The root problem on this planet is that the vast majority of this species has a consciousness level near zero, and this is especially the case with the "elites" who think they are demi gods. It takes definite effort to raise consciousnes levels, apparently too much work for the vast majority of troglodytes to handle. Aloha, "humans". Better luck next time Quoting: drakke1 1067112I agree, we have attached our whole identity to words. Say a nice word and the puppet is up and high, say a bad word and the puppet is down and low; however, there could be an argunment here. There have been studies done with water. If you write the word thank you, the water changes into beautiful shapes, if you write "Fuck you, I hate you" the waters turns into a mess. What I think we can take into account here is the word INTENTION. The intention that is carried in the words has more power than the word itself. And for the person who's told the word, how does that intention resonate with that person's emotional body. Allot of people are already wounded and if you take into account the emotional body of all thr collective mind of the black community and their history and the slavery they went through, you have a very wounded emotional body to be affected by the "N" word. If you want people to raise their level of consciousness, you need to start working with energy and the healing of energy and yes, we do have a long way to go in that realm. So what do you expect. People will get hurt but hurtful words until they wake up and heal, but this is a process, that will take time. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 657383 Canada 08/13/2010 01:04 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | i have worked with many great blacks over the year and have made many good friends. the reason they say 'Im_an_idiot' to each other is took take the power of the word away from whites. Quoting: somedude1and it worked. brilliant. true. and people like Dr. Laura have been crying about it ever since. But I wanna black people the N-word too! waaaaaa! |
somedude1 User ID: 1063311 United States 08/13/2010 01:06 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | for hundreds of years that word made them less than whites...a direct refrence to that days of slavery...when blacks started using it...whites were confused.(and still are...lol)...the point was to take the power away from white assholes. and it worked. now they have power of this word...get it? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 934055 Canada 08/13/2010 01:06 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | she is not black so she should not be using the N-word nor any whites for that matter. you whites need to stop minding black people business. we dont say the N-FIGURE we say (Never Ignorant Getting Goals Accomplished) Quoting: Anonymous Coward 980803I am white and I will say any word that I want because I am an American an the Constitution gives me the right... if you don't like it then come here and try to make me shut up. By the way, I don't mind the business of black people, but I am tired of paying for their criminal activity by housing their sorry asses in prison. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 657383 Canada 08/13/2010 01:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | she is not black so she should not be using the N-word nor any whites for that matter. you whites need to stop minding black people business. we dont say the N-FIGURE we say (Never Ignorant Getting Goals Accomplished) Quoting: Anonymous Coward 934055I am white and I will say any word that I want because I am an American an the Constitution gives me the right... if you don't like it then come here and try to make me shut up. By the way, I don't mind the business of black people, but I am tired of paying for their criminal activity by housing their sorry asses in prison. But you are not tired of paying for white asses to sit in prison? Oh but this is about "freedom" not "race". Got it. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 979719 United States 08/13/2010 01:09 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | for hundreds of years that word made them less than whites...a direct refrence to that days of slavery...when blacks started using it...whites were confused.(and still are...lol)...the point was to take the power away from white assholes. and it worked. now they have power of this word...get it? Quoting: somedude1then why does anyone get mad about whitey saying it? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1062823 United States 08/13/2010 01:10 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Your thoughts, please and let's keep our heads about this... Quoting: refugee13I am confused as to why when whites say it, it is degrading, but when blacks use it, it is an endearing term to each other... Do you use it? I am not going to lie...yes I have and in my opinion anyone who says they haven't is more than likely not telling the truth... I use it, but not directed to any specific race, color, or creed. I use it on a case by case basis...the word is used by me to describe a certain mind frame of people, with their behaviors, ideology, and personality. |
somedude1 User ID: 1063311 United States 08/13/2010 01:10 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | the dumb whities 'im an american...bla bla'....is a bigot and a prime example of why blacks did this. if anyone calls a black man/woman the n word, they are saying they are better than them and thats racist....my god...didnt you learn this when you were a kid?...what kind of upbringing did you have? |
somedude1 User ID: 1063311 United States 08/13/2010 01:13 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 995585 United States 08/13/2010 01:18 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1001177 United States 08/13/2010 01:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Um..there are two different words. One ending in er, which is a slur. One ending in ah, which is a friendly term..were you people raised in milwaukee and had no contact with people of other cultures? I am white as snow as never had a black person say anything to me for saying the "N" word because I use ah, not er. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1059843 United Kingdom 08/13/2010 01:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Your thoughts, please and let's keep our heads about this... Quoting: refugee13I am confused as to why when whites say it, it is degrading, but when blacks use it, it is an endearing term to each other... It's because you are an idiot. That's why you confused. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1067154 United States 08/13/2010 01:25 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Um..there are two different words. One ending in er, which is a slur. One ending in ah, which is a friendly term..were you people raised in milwaukee and had no contact with people of other cultures? I am white as snow as never had a black person say anything to me for saying the "N" word because I use ah, not er. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1001177Why did you use Milwaukee? You're still exhibiting the same type of thought process that are conducive to such slurs. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 957966 United Kingdom 08/13/2010 01:45 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 811104 United States 08/13/2010 01:48 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 621262 United States 08/13/2010 01:49 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | What do you mean by I am helping the enemy? Quoting: refugee13this is cannon fodder to distract & entertain the masses you are doing what CNN, FOX etc do 24/7 right now we need to focus on the real issues like our government is poisoning our food & water, imposing tyranny and global government upon us, etc. not race, celebrity, abortion, religion, dems v. reps, etc. think about it. |
somedude1 User ID: 1063311 United States 08/13/2010 01:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | again, blacks de fused a hate filled word used by slave owners to degrade blacks and remind them that whites are better....this went on for hundereds of years. black TOOK the word back and made it bad for whites to say it and ok for blacks to say it...this is brilliant as hell! a peaceful way to stick it to the man...the racist man. |
Enaid User ID: 515273 United States 08/13/2010 01:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Good bye freedom of speech. Good bye freedom of speech. Good bye freedom of speech. Ever notice how blacks want their freedom, yet want to take away whites' freedoms?? Someone explain - rationally- the logic behind this? Personal responsibility - try it sometime. Quit blaming others for your bad choices. Consequences happen. :enaid11: |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1066373 United States 08/13/2010 01:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 957923 United Kingdom 08/13/2010 01:59 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | THE ORIGINAL MEANING OF THE "N" WORD HAD A CONNOTATION CONNECTED TO THE GODS The word "nig..." used to be the most revered and sacred word in the universe. It was the "devine epithet," and the people who began using the mother of all words that originated from this word which was sullied by the British, were the ancient Egyptians or better, the Khemites, who called their land, "Khemet" or "The Black Land," and also used the name, "Ta-merri" or "The Beloved Land." THE WORD "N-G-R" MEANS "GOD" IN ANCIENT EGYPTIAN The father of the "n" word was the word used by the ancient Egyptians for "God." That word was "N-g-r" and as one can see, there are no vowels in this word. In the ancient African and even the present African languages (the Afro-Asiatic linguistic family) vowels such as "a,e,i,o,u" are not found in many translations, particularly of ancient Hebrew and Egyptian languages. In the translation of ancient Egyptian and Hebrew (which is heavily influenced by Egyptian), one will not always find vowels, therefore, very few people will realize that the word for God, which is "N-g-r" pronounced "en-ger" was the Egyptian word for God. In fact, the Egyptian word for "nature," is also the word used for God. That word is "ntyr," (pronounced net-jer." Now prounce the word "nigg.." and the word "net-jer," and one sees the clear connection. MANY AFRICAN WORDS DENOTING PEOPLE OR IMPORTANT PEOPLE STARTS WITH "N" In many African languages particularly the Niger-Congo language family. Words that connects with people, Gods, and groups begin with "n" and that word is always the first word. For instance, the word "Nkosi" in Xhosa is "God." The word "Ndaba," in another South African language is "counsil" (or gathering of elders). Many common names also begin with "N". WORDS OF AFRICAN ORIGINS THAT CAME FROM THE ORIGINAL WORD, "N-G-R" (PROUNOUNCED EN-JER) N-g-r (Egyptian;pronounced en-jer) = God N-t-y-r (Egypt; pronounced net-ger) = God, Devine Negash (Ethiopia; ne-gash) = King Negus (Ethiopia; ne-goos) = Emperor Nkosi (Xhosa; en-kosi) = God Ndaba (Zulu; en-daba) = Counsil/Officials, Naga (East Indian, Nubian = People Nugarmarta (West African = People (See the writings of Ibn Buttata's journey to West Africa) HOW THE N BECAME CORRUPTED The Romans are probably the first Europeans to misrepresent the word for God, which was "N-g-r" About the early part of the First Century, Romans tried to invade Ethiopia. (see BLACK HISTORY CHART [link to community.webtv.net] or go to [link to community.webtv.net] for a list of Nubian Pharaohs and Queens. The Romans who were speakers of Latin always knew of Blacks, there were Blacks in Rome, Italy had an ancient Black presence long before the Latins migrated from Central Asia and North Eastern Europe during the 'Aryan' migrations. In fact, the Latin ethnic groups is still in existance in the northern part of Italy even today. This part of Italy still grips about Hannibal's invasion which happened about two thousand two hundred years ago!!!! The Romans had a name for Blacks, it was "Niger" and it meant Black or people of African origins. Thus, Septimus Niger would have meant, Septimus the Negro. Yet, how did the Romans connect the word "Niger" to Black. In ancient times, Blacks were worshipped as Gods. The Gods of Greece came from Egypt. The worship of the Black Madonna is connected with the worship of Isis, the Egyptian Goddes. Moreover, Blacks in Egypt called their Pharaohs "En-ger" or "N-g-r" he was literally referred to as "THE GOD." It is very possible that when the Romans tried to invade Nubia, they asked for the name of the God and the term "N-g-r" was probably used in place of "leader" or "king". In Angola, the same also happened during the 1600's when the word "N-gola" which means "King" (notice the "N" and the "g" in this word as well), came to be "Angola,' the name of a kingdom in south western Africa. (Read more on Nubian, Egyptian, West African and ancient American trade and commercial connections in ancient times; see the book, "Susu Economics: The History of Pan-African Trade, Commerce, Money and Wealth," published by 1stBooks Library, www.1stbooks.com also see www.barnesandnoble.com WHERE DID THE ROMANS FIRST HEAR THE ORIGINAL MEANING OF THE "N" WORD. A Roman general invading Nubia from Egypt would probably have used the Egyptian term for Pharaoh, which was "N-g-r" (God). This term then was used to refer to all Blacks and as time went by, the word N-g-r became Niger. In Fact, the Romans also classified their Emperors as "Gods," to follow the Egyptian style. Moreover, as the History Channel poointed out, "Rome was a collection of villages before the Egyptians built it up."(paraphrased). The word "em-peror" sounds very close to the word "en-jer." That is not a coincidental connection. THE WORD "N-G-R" (EN-JER) AFTER IT WAS CORRUPTED BY THE EUROPEANS Niger = (Latin or Black/African pronounced "ni-ger.") Nero = Italian for Black Negre = French for Black Negro = Spanish for Black The English called Blacks "Moore" or "Black-a-Moore" before they began using the word "Negro" to refer to Blacks. FROM THAT WORD CAME THE RACIAL EPITHET, "NIGG.." In like manner, the racist term for Japanese the mutilation of the word to shorten it into an epithet. Furthermore, the original name for Japan is the Chinese "Ni-Han." Now here is another great mystry that people who study the Niger-Congo linguistic family would quickly notice. EVEN THE WORD "Ni" in the Chinese "Ni-Han," has and ancient African connection. In fact, as Clyde Walters points out, The Chinese language is directly related to the Niger-Congo language which has its roots in the Cameroon region of Africa. In fact, there are thousands of African words from Cameroon to Kenya that have both prefixes and suffixes that are identical to both Chinese and Japanese languages (see also African Presence in Early Asia, by Ivan Van Sertima; Transaction Publishers) In the Case of "Ni-Han" which may mean "rising sun," there is also a sacred meaning that is found in the word "n-ger," or "ne-gro." Yet, the racist terms "nip," and "nigg..." or "jap," used by racists were and are being used without any understanding of their original meanings. Only hatred and envy comes out of the mouths of those who use racial epithets in their attempt to insult and denegrade others. However, it is up to us to study our history and make these racist words impotent, while at the same time, understanding their original meaning. Connection with the prefix "ni" with sacred and life: Ni'le = The Nile River, Life to the Egyptians Ni-ger = River in West Africa Niger = Nation in West Africa Nigeria = Nation in West Africa Nago = Racist term used by some SE Asians to refer to Black Melanesians of Africoid origins Nago-Mina = African nationality in Nigeria Naghual = Aztec word for Shaman or priest. The first Olmec Shamans in Mexico came from Nigeria and elsewhere in West Africa (see Black Civilizations of America [link to community.webtv.net] THE ORIGINS OF THE TERM "HUN." The racist term for whites also comes from a word that struck fear in the hearts of whites during the ancint times. That word is "Hun." The Huns were Mongol barbarians from Mongolia who tried to invade China and finally succeeded. THye invaded Eurasia from Russia all the way to Germany and mixed in with the Caucasians. Hence, the British began calling Germans the term "Hun." The countries of Hungary, East Germany, northern Italy, Russia, Poland and much of Eastern Europe is mixed with the Mongol invaders. There were Mongol invaders in Turkey, Afghanistan, India, and many nations. THE MONGOLS WERE DEFEATED BY NUBIANS AND MAMELUKES When the Huns tried to invade Egypt (sometime in the 1100's), they were met by a strong force of Nubians and Mamelukes (white slaves from slavic, Turkics from Bosnia, Serbia, Albania, Turkey and such nations), who were soldiers for the Egyptian rulers. The Mongols were defeated and that was the end of the Mongol Empire. Moreover, they were thinly spread over Eurasia. They also met a crack cavalry of Nubian horsemen and archers, who had a tradition of archery that extends way back to ancient Egyptian times. When one studies the history of the Huns in Europe, it is one of the most horrible genocides that existed (the genocide against Black Sudras and Black Australoids in India is another great genocide; see "Sudrology, [link to dalitstan.org] ) The huns ravaged Europe and are said to spread the blacck plague by shooting plague infested rats in the walled towns of the Europeans to infest them. WE MUST STUDY OUR HISTORY IN ORDER TO DEVELOP OUR CONSCIOUSNESS AND MAKE PEOPLE'S RACIST REMARKS IMPOTENT We must study our history. It is by knowing who we are that racist remarks and racial epithets will become impotent. Every time one uses the word "nigg..." to refer to a Black person, they are actually calling that person "God." When we Blacks say that our Afro's and locks are "natural," we don't realize the significance of the word or the true meaning. But something in our consciousness simply cannot be destroyed. To say we are going "natural," means we are going back to being "gods," because the word "natural," comes from the original Egyptian word, "n-t-y-r" which means "God." The ancient Egyptians used a similar word to call their Pharoahs. That word was "N-g-r." The word "Pharaoh," was never used to refer to any Egyptian King. Pharaoh came from the word "Per-o" which was the term for the Great Temple, where the King lived. P. Barton is author of: Susu Economics: The History of Pan-African Trade, Commerce, Money and Wealth," pub. by 1stBooks Library, www.1stbooks.com A History of the African-Olmecs: pub by 1stBooks Library www.1stbooks.com Susu and Susunomics: pub by www.iuniverse.com P. Barton (P. Nubiyang) [link to community.webtv.net] [email protected] TAKEN FROM [link to www.raceandhistory.com] |
Kaz User ID: 1065988 United States 08/13/2010 02:00 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | she is not black so she should not be using the N-word nor any whites for that matter. you whites need to stop minding black people business. we dont say the N-FIGURE we say (Never Ignorant Getting Goals Accomplished) Quoting: Anonymous Coward 980803So since Im_an_idiot isn't the "N word" white people can say "what's up Im_an_idiot?" By your own definition it's not deragatory, it's actually flattering. My personal opinion is a word has only as much power as you give it. Call me cracker, whitey, peckerwood, whatever... don't mean a thing to me. It does, however, educate me on your mental deficiencies. Have I EVER used the "N word"? Having grown up in the south I can say absolutely and much worse IMO. Do I use it now? nope, I grew up and got educated |