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Is humane, sensible, non-fascist eugenics possible?

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1006542
Japan
09/17/2010 06:21 AM
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Is humane, sensible, non-fascist eugenics possible?
The evil of the Nazis showed the world the nightmare side of eugenics.

Since then the planet turned away in horror.

But is sane eugenics possible? Can the human family tree learn to "prune itself" so to speak? Because if humanity could gain sane and humane control over the direction of its own evolution, it would be a quantum leap in complexity. We would step up to the next level (always happens when systems become self-referential).

Or not?
Anonymous Coward
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Canada
09/17/2010 06:30 AM
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Re: Is humane, sensible, non-fascist eugenics possible?
Probably not ... don't forget that eugenics always requires discrimination because it is based on the notion that humans should be picked, selected and breeded like animals.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1101208
United States
09/17/2010 06:35 AM
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Re: Is humane, sensible, non-fascist eugenics possible?
The evil of the Nazis showed the world the nightmare side of eugenics.

Since then the planet turned away in horror.

But is sane eugenics possible? Can the human family tree learn to "prune itself" so to speak? Because if humanity could gain sane and humane control over the direction of its own evolution, it would be a quantum leap in complexity. We would step up to the next level (always happens when systems become self-referential).

Or not?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1006542


You have to give us more guidelines. Who exactly are we pruning? Downs syndrome children, or sociopaths?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 870381
Australia
09/17/2010 06:40 AM
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Re: Is humane, sensible, non-fascist eugenics possible?
I wish.

There are such extremes to this issue.

Mainly I think it needs to be approached with LOVE not HATE.

Eugenics, practised properly, is about what is best for the species. That includes the people who are to be eugenicised.

If you follow the the first and main rule: Do Unto Others as You Would Have Them Do To You...then you have to ask yourself: Would you wish to live like this?

Eugenics isn't about destroying people you hate because you consider them inferior.

It's about wanting everyone to have the same opportunities you have because you love them.

People who have never loved a crippled, diabled or retarded person won't know what I'm talking about...

Those who have wont dare to speak....
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 592233
Netherlands
09/17/2010 06:41 AM
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Re: Is humane, sensible, non-fascist eugenics possible?
also- from a "scientfic point of view" if you refine you kinda set yourself up for a disaster -

ie

by only having a few apple seeds you have maybe three species- a disease hits that no apple has resistance to-
the apple trees die

could be that the evolutionary process will favor the least likely candidates- say the earth gets real real cold - short fat people like eskimos fare better then tall heroic sports guys

(reminds me of those football players whose boat overturned and a couple of them died. Here they are, football players- they spend their lives getting in shape- yet a pudgy swimmer could have made it to shore-

the evidence is clear- eugenics- a path to species suicide
Marquis

User ID: 1101234
United Kingdom
09/17/2010 06:45 AM
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Re: Is humane, sensible, non-fascist eugenics possible?
Who decides which genes should be favoured and which should be pruned? National governments? The UN? I for one don't trust governments enough to give them control over the biological evolution of our entire species...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1099525
United States
09/17/2010 06:45 AM
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Re: Is humane, sensible, non-fascist eugenics possible?
Yes it can! Here is how you do it. Don't kill people, control people, or separate OTHERS from society. Instead, if you believe the mentally-retarded, jews, blacks, the irish, alcoholics, homosexuals, etc. are all inferior and polluting the gene pool SEPARATE YOURSELF from society.

Simply move, start a new country of eugenicists, don't breed with the rest of us, and generally hold the philosophy that rather than forcefully weeding out the weak you're gonna voluntarily weed out the "strong" to take that leap you THINK is gonna happen.

That way, when you find out your wrong, the rest of us will still be around to make the REAL evolutionary leaps.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
09/17/2010 06:48 AM
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Re: Is humane, sensible, non-fascist eugenics possible?
could be that the evolutionary process will favor the least likely candidates
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 592233

Good point. It really is just an assumption as to who or what "the fittest" is, isn't it?

Perhaps "the meek" really do inherit the earth?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 592233
Netherlands
09/17/2010 06:48 AM
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Re: Is humane, sensible, non-fascist eugenics possible?
lets take the idea of getting rid of all murderers

they are bad and lets get rid of them and have the "peace" everyone longs for that never exsisted in the history of mankind (probably for a reason)

The planet is peaceful and nice and we hold hands and stuff,

then we get invaded by like a 4 foot tall skinny thing that looks like a straw with hair or something and no one has it in them to kill so we get conquered

great

The only problem with people with social solutions is that they think they know the answer

which is why europe is kinda a mess. they think that they have it figured out. So much so to the point that they think another group of people coming in and taking land and consuming the resources is manageable

lol
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 870381
Australia
09/17/2010 06:49 AM
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Re: Is humane, sensible, non-fascist eugenics possible?
Stop being foolish....DISABLED people live because you foster it....
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 1006542
Japan
09/17/2010 06:50 AM
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Re: Is humane, sensible, non-fascist eugenics possible?
Some of these responses are really good! Thanks.

I don't think eugenics like killing people or telling people they can't breed is moral. But there might be other ways to control the direction of the species...

One possibility: genetic engineering. But contains many possible dangers too.

Another: self-selecting/re-enforcing behavior like what the poster above said (i.e., "separate your self from society" -- really good post!)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1101208
United States
09/17/2010 06:50 AM
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Re: Is humane, sensible, non-fascist eugenics possible?
also- from a "scientfic point of view" if you refine you kinda set yourself up for a disaster -

ie

by only having a few apple seeds you have maybe three species- a disease hits that no apple has resistance to-
the apple trees die

could be that the evolutionary process will favor the least likely candidates- say the earth gets real real cold - short fat people like eskimos fare better then tall heroic sports guys

(reminds me of those football players whose boat overturned and a couple of them died. Here they are, football players- they spend their lives getting in shape- yet a pudgy swimmer could have made it to shore-

the evidence is clear- eugenics- a path to species suicide
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 592233


Very true! I read that book.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1101299
United States
09/17/2010 06:52 AM
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Re: Is humane, sensible, non-fascist eugenics possible?
Nature has always done its own prunning. We need to leave this whole idea alone because we are not a very intelligent species yet, just a clever one.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1101286
Australia
09/17/2010 06:54 AM
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Re: Is humane, sensible, non-fascist eugenics possible?
The evil of the Nazis showed the world the nightmare side of eugenics.

Since then the planet turned away in horror.

But is sane eugenics possible? Can the human family tree learn to "prune itself" so to speak? Because if humanity could gain sane and humane control over the direction of its own evolution, it would be a quantum leap in complexity. We would step up to the next level (always happens when systems become self-referential).

Or not?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1006542



you'd be a barrel of laughs at a party fella
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 870381
Australia
09/17/2010 06:55 AM
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Re: Is humane, sensible, non-fascist eugenics possible?
I already know they are stupid because they ignored my post. Therefore I withdraw my suggestions. I'm now anti-Eugenics.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1034753
United Kingdom
09/17/2010 06:55 AM
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Re: Is humane, sensible, non-fascist eugenics possible?
Yes of course it is possible - is a sane non-fascist discussion about it possible - NO!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1101288
Germany
09/17/2010 07:01 AM
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Re: Is humane, sensible, non-fascist eugenics possible?
Irony ON>
How about clean the planet first from the gooks ? I see no value they bring to the white race !
Irony OFF<

See OP ... eugenics will never work, and never has worked. What you mean is natural selection. When we still were apes roaming the bushes and you were not fast and/or stupid the lion gotcha ... today we have no natural enemys but ourself.

If you really want to bring humanity a level higher then tell the elite to spend all their money on science ... tell the pharma-industry to give out the cancer remedies they have in the save ... tell the governments to stop wasting young people fighting for the elite ....
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1033497
United States
09/17/2010 07:02 AM
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Re: Is humane, sensible, non-fascist eugenics possible?
The evil of the Nazis showed the world the nightmare side of eugenics.

Since then the planet turned away in horror.

But is sane eugenics possible? Can the human family tree learn to "prune itself" so to speak? Because if humanity could gain sane and humane control over the direction of its own evolution, it would be a quantum leap in complexity. We would step up to the next level (always happens when systems become self-referential).

Or not?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1006542




The VERY least that should be done, is limiting the number of children people are allowed to have (HELLO ILLEGALS!), and ONLY after having passed an IQ test, and demonstrated ability to provide for the offspring. These are the BARE MINIMUM that needs to be done.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1101288
Germany
09/17/2010 07:13 AM
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Re: Is humane, sensible, non-fascist eugenics possible?
The VERY least that should be done, is limiting the number of children people are allowed to have (HELLO ILLEGALS!), and ONLY after having passed an IQ test, and demonstrated ability to provide for the offspring. These are the BARE MINIMUM that needs to be done.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1033497

If an IQ test would be required to get children ... then the population of America (and most other countrys too) would be a few hundred thousands and you too would probably not be allowed to have children (Do you have a university degree ? What was the latest invention you made that did something good for humanity ? What is YOUR value to, lets say me, or your neighbor, or the economy, or nature ? If you cannot answer these, better get sterilized).

The problem is: IQ of the parents has not much to do with the IQ of the children. It is education and the environment you grow up in that determines if you become a garbage man or a scientist.

Eugenics will never work, although it has been tried even in the US:

Here is good book on the topic:
[link to www.amazon.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1099525
United States
09/17/2010 07:23 AM
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Re: Is humane, sensible, non-fascist eugenics possible?
The VERY least that should be done, is limiting the number of children people are allowed to have (HELLO ILLEGALS!), and ONLY after having passed an IQ test, and demonstrated ability to provide for the offspring. These are the BARE MINIMUM that needs to be done.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1033497

In other words, sterilize the stupid and poor.

And we wonder why it is in China that "poor folk" walk into schools and cut the heads off the children of the middle and upper classes?





GLP