99.9% of the Universe Displays - Life-Like, Self-Organizing Properties, has Tendency to Form Cellular/Filamentary Structures - PLASMA

Interesting thread, I always enjoy reading your perspective Sick Scent.

Makes me wonder if plasma is a "higher" form of energy than matter or if it is the other way around that when plasma "evolves" it becomes matter as we observe/measure it. If so, then how does "pockets" of plasma coalesce into one element or another? Is there some vibration that we cannot see/measure that instructs a pocket of plasma to form into say gold or silver or uranium or helium? Were does this vibration come from? Is it cyclical, meaning does it come from the observer which through their perspective quantifies the plasma?

Nice thread again.


Plasma IS matter, merely in another state. Any element can be in one of the 4 states. Heat up any element enough that it starts to fall apart from the heat/vibration and it will create free electrons and a liquid like state known as plasma. Solid are the least energetic state (coldest). Cold is merely the lack of heat (energy).




Okay, forgive me it's been a very long time since I took chemistry. But from what I remember even in a gaseous state an element say water retains it's atomic structure so that one can discern that the gas being observed is water, same with hydrogen, helium etc. Are you saying that one can discern the base form of matter a particular plasma is? Like hydrogen plasma or helium plasma? So, then if an element that can take a gaseous state say hydrogen, the plasma state is just a form of hydrogen in a very excited state or highly energetic? Are all elements in the periodic table capable of transforming into a plasma given enough energy? If so, then what "separates" one plasma from another? Say what separates a hydrogen plasma from a helium plasma if the electrons in the element are ionized and can float freely within the plasma.

Again, sorry for my ignorance just curious.

Okay, forgive me it's been a very long time since I took chemistry. But from what I remember even in a gaseous state an element say water retains it's atomic structure so that one can discern that the gas being observed is water, same with hydrogen, helium etc. Are you saying that one can discern the base form of matter a particular plasma is? Like hydrogen plasma or helium plasma? So, then if an element that can take a gaseous state say hydrogen, the plasma state is just a form of hydrogen in a very excited state or highly energetic? Are all elements in the periodic table capable of transforming into a plasma given enough energy? If so, then what "separates" one plasma from another? Say what separates a hydrogen plasma from a helium plasma if the electrons in the element are ionized and can float freely within the plasma.

Again, sorry for my ignorance just curious.

Plasma consists of a collection of free-moving electrons and ions - atoms that have lost electrons. Energy is needed to strip electrons from atoms to make plasma. The energy can be of various origins: thermal, electrical, or light (ultraviolet light or intense visible light from a laser). With insufficient sustaining power, plasmas recombine into neutral gas.
[link to plasmascience.net]

In physics and chemistry, plasma is a state of matter similar to gas in which a certain portion of the particles are ionized. The basic premise is that heating a gas dissociates its molecular bonds, rendering it into its constituent atoms. Further heating leads to ionization (a loss of electrons), turning it into a plasma: containing charged particles, positive ions and negative electrons.[1]

The presence of a non-negligible number of charge carriers makes the plasma electrically conductive so that it responds strongly to electromagnetic fields. Plasma, therefore, has properties quite unlike those of solids, liquids, or gases and is considered to be a distinct state of matter. Like gas, plasma does not have a definite shape or a definite volume unless enclosed in a container; unlike gas, under the influence of a magnetic field, it may form structures such as filaments, beams and double layers. Some common plasmas are stars and neon signs.
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

That's a complicated question, I'm not sure if different elements group together or whether it forms a plasma soup with all kinds of elements. It's something to do with the electrical charges and density and temperature.

While I do find this model of the universe intriguing, you said something soo blatantly wrong that it needs correcting:

Fire is not a plasma; it is highly excited atoms giving off light as they vibrationally cool down, releasing photons.

Fire is soot right when soot is being formed. Its the same thing as hot metal, carbon just breaks apart during oxidation whears hot metal remains intact.

While I do find this model of the universe intriguing, you said something soo blatantly wrong that it needs correcting:

Fire is not a plasma; it is highly excited atoms giving off light as they vibrationally cool down, releasing photons.

Fire is soot right when soot is being formed. Its the same thing as hot metal, carbon just breaks apart during oxidation whears hot metal remains intact.


I didn't write the information, the website is maintained by Dr. Anthony Peratt. A plasma physicist working for Los Alamos labs, maybe you ought to take it up with him? He was a student of Hannes Alfvén, I think he would know what a plasma is better than anyone. Just saying.

Seriously dude? What the fuck was your standarized testing reading comprehension score, 1?

Found an interesting explanation on this...note the lack of conductivity at the bottom.

[link to www.physicsforums.com]
97. Is fire a plasma?

The fire given off when burning for example, paper, wood, gasoline--is that another of the manifestations of a plasma? If it isn't plasma that makes the fire shine--what is it?
Reply
You asked a good question, but the answer is--no, fire is not hot enough to create a plasma.

Most flames are yellow. The main reason is that flames contain little bits of burned material--bits which later form its smoke--and they get hot enough to glow. Hot solid materials always glow--for instance, the filament in a lightbulb. However ,glowing in yellow light does not require a very hot temperature.

To create a plasma takes more energy, and requires a higher temperature than the flame provides. The collisions between atoms need to be energetic enough to kick an electron completely out of the atom.

An electric arc welder drives a huge current across a narrow juncture where two pieces of metal touch, and that creates a temperature high enough to create a plasma. The surrounding air is also hot enough. After touching the two pieces can be separated, and the air continues to carry the electric current, and to heat enough to create the plasma. The metal tip glow so brightly (white light, with a lot of eye-damaging ultra-violet) that the welder can only view the work through a thick dark screen.

Before writing to you, just to make sure, I took an electric meter and measured the resistance between two metal contacts separated by a small distance, putting both in the flame of a gas oven, which gets pretty hot. No electric current could be detected, both inside the flame and away from it, meaning the flame did not conduct any observable electric current.

So plasma is what philosophers once referred to as ether.

So plasma is what philosophers once referred to as ether.



aether

So plasma is what philosophers once referred to as ether.

So plasma is what philosophers once referred to as ether.



Plasma is to aether as salt is to water.

So plasma is what philosophers once referred to as ether.



Plasma is to aether as salt is to water.

just a dude.......

......you are magic

:Smiley:

So plasma is what philosophers once referred to as ether.


Plasma is to aether as salt is to water.

Arsenic Life Is Nice; Living Clouds Are Nicer

To life as we know it, with carbon, oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, sulfur and phosphorous, we can now add life with arsenic. Dr. Felisa Wolfe-Simon fed a little bacterium daily doses of the dread element, and the little guy slurped it up, chucked most of its phosphorous, and became an arsenic-creature. "It's a really nice story about adaptability of our life form," chemist Gerald Joyce told the New York Times, "It gives food for thought about what might be possible in another world."

Well, here's one possibility. The otherwise sane and respected astrobiologist David Grinspoon has been considering that under the right circumstances, clouds could become living things. With intelligence, even. Carl Sagan thought so, too.

A living thing, it is thought, needs to feed, grow, copy and evolve and persist. It needs some kind of shape. Clouds can do all that, says David Grinspoon. Though they look hazy and random here on Earth, they contain levels of order, they hold themselves together, they move around, they have routines. They can, in theory, produce increasingly complex forms of themselves.

Imagine a cloud of stellar dust several light years across quietly drifting through space. Powered by its own bursting stars feeding it oxygen, carbon, life-giving chemistries, could it not become a slightly lonely but vastly oversized life form? An enormous space traveler?

[link to www.npr.org]

I seems like I am not the only one who think it's very possible that plasma clouds can be considered living. Carl Sagan thought to so, I'd like to look into that more.

Maybe our universe is just one cell in another lifeform, maybe some plant in another universe, which is another cell...and our cells are universes too with lifeforms like us. All out of our perception.
Certainly seems more like than invisible people in the sky not wanting us to masturbate.

Anthony Peratt's work shows the high probability that there were plasma discharges in the atmosphere in ancient days. The ancient peoples put the sights they saw on rocks, in the form of 'art'.

The top left picture is a plasma discharge occurring in Peratt's lab. Peratt had matched up HUNDREDS of plasma discharge shapes to rock art...

:thun321:

Arsenic Life Is Nice; Living Clouds Are Nicer

To life as we know it, with carbon, oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, sulfur and phosphorous, we can now add life with arsenic. Dr. Felisa Wolfe-Simon fed a little bacterium daily doses of the dread element, and the little guy slurped it up, chucked most of its phosphorous, and became an arsenic-creature. "It's a really nice story about adaptability of our life form," chemist Gerald Joyce told the New York Times, "It gives food for thought about what might be possible in another world."

Well, here's one possibility. The otherwise sane and respected astrobiologist David Grinspoon has been considering that under the right circumstances, clouds could become living things. With intelligence, even. Carl Sagan thought so, too.

A living thing, it is thought, needs to feed, grow, copy and evolve and persist. It needs some kind of shape. Clouds can do all that, says David Grinspoon. Though they look hazy and random here on Earth, they contain levels of order, they hold themselves together, they move around, they have routines. They can, in theory, produce increasingly complex forms of themselves.

Imagine a cloud of stellar dust several light years across quietly drifting through space. Powered by its own bursting stars feeding it oxygen, carbon, life-giving chemistries, could it not become a slightly lonely but vastly oversized life form? An enormous space traveler?

[link to www.npr.org]

I seems like I am not the only one who think it's very possible that plasma clouds can be considered living. Carl Sagan thought to so, I'd like to look into that more.

Water is very strange stuff.