Chinese Spirituality - Xamchen

" it's a state wherein you see in 360 degrees, and physically you become plastic in nature. "

That's it right there, but honestly it's almost 5 am , I'm drained, but it's the most intelligent matter I saw here today. We'll talk tomorrow or some coming day, I'm sure of it.

The " truth " can come from any direction.


:)

No worries - look forward to it.
I'll check back on the thread tomorrow :)

Dear OP, thank you this is certainly interesting.

I've had the experience several times that my teeth and my whole mouth would turn to a weird substance like stone, its hard to describe since its a very strange feeling.

Anyways, I want to achieve astral projection I hope I can do this by work on the etheric energy body which I do. One time i got so close i was starting to see through closed eyes and thoughts would become REAL projected imagery like television.

I raise my energy in the energy body by focusing on my body as a whole or parts of it as such as a leg. Then the energy body surrounding it will expand and I think all-in-all its like body building but for that energy body. So when using it, in theory skills such as astral projection and clairvoyance should develop consequently.

In the physical disciplines of yoga or the martial arts, we develop what is called in English, a heightened sense of Propriocentric Perception.

This is logical and practical, and accessable to anyone who works at it.

Propriocentric Perception is the full, wide, readily accesible cognition of exactly where every part of our body is in space, and ease of movement, muscular recall, and balance.

With years of practice one naturally develops a 'sense' of where one is in any given space, and our senses can kind of "expand" that perception in sort of an egglike configuration around us.

Nothing woo-woo mysterious, just neurological recall and heightened awareness.

Thanks for your response :)
I certainly believe training in a martial art helps spiritually - I plan to return to Wing Chun at some stage in the near future.

Woo woo is ok :) I am in touch with my energy body.
Talking about an egg-like awareness is interesting - I'm not sure if you're aware there are other traditions that talk about the egg-like energy that surrounds us.

The main reason I'm interested is that to talk of a state such as one like Xamchen implies other knowledge - it would be fascinating to know what body of knowledge it's referenced in.

Hi Germany.
I no longer attempt astral travelling - there are other forces at play.
If I get back into that arena it will be to focus on dream control - dreams are at the centre of our difficulties in relation to the dream/energy body.
Then again, from my perspective any energy work is worthwhile as long as it's done with the Spirit in mind. As soon as one starts to seek it for kicks or power watch out.
I'm glad to see a fellow who knows there is more to himself than skin and bones :)

the egg is an auric field composed of electrons emanating from both "living" and "nonliving" matter

also known as an "aura"

also known as an "electro magnetic field"

these fields have multiple and dominant colors representing the frequency of energy being produced by the body

the higher the frequency, the more "chaos"

The egglike realm around us has practical application. It can be kind of defined by the furthest reach of one's fingers and toes in all directions. At any given moment, we can -- and may -- physically reach all around us, and we need to be neurologically aware of everything within that immediate 'area of operations'.

Through yoga or the martial arts, we gain familiarity with everything within that realm, and develop sort of an intuition about what is going on 'within the egg'.

Somehow -- naturally, as compared to 'supernaturally' -- we take all the interior of the egg shape into our field of working knowledge. Fluctuations of light, shadow, temperature, air movement.

We come to "live in" our whole "range of motion" rather than just within the flesh.

Thanks. You may be right. I prefer to work from the Spirit backwards. But each level can affect the other, so it may be that electrons are involved.

It also could correlate with the auras most refer to. I have never seen auras around others, though I have energized my "egg" previously and people certainly noticed. Nevertheless I have observed the colours referred to in my energy work. I have no doubt that auras are real phenomena that some people can sense.

Your comment about frequency is interesting given it seems to be at odds with what most others would say. Doesn't mean you're wrong :) Perhaps on the contrary. Most would probably interpret formlessness as chaos. I don't tend to fuss about vibrations too much. There are 2 major groups of being on this planet - for one vibrationary level may well be the end-goal - for the other it certainly isn't.



I think I'm starting to confirm that Xamchen may be one of those hidden pieces of cultural knowledge known to very few. Much like the idea that this world is a literal hell is in Hinduism. Can be fascinating to talk to someone steeped in one of these cultures.

Thanks mockingbird :)
I no longer use the term supernatural - i believe it's a misnomer.
I like the sound of what you're talking about - an expanded awareness brought about through a physical discipline.
I'm looking forward to returning to Wing Chun :)
Do you practice yoga or one of the martial arts?

Projection is a hard nut but if Robert Bruce can get out of body within 5 minutes of lying down, I can aswell ;) its just a matter of focus of the mind im sure.

And presently I think it has to do with the etheric-body expanding until a certain point of ejection occurs.


I have experimented a lot with dreams and this is an area I would personalyl say "other forces at work" because there is not much control in that area. Even lucid dreams are often reported as not being under control of the dreamer. So, I kind of left it at that.

What makes the astral so interesting in comparison to the dream world is that it has an actuality to it, especially the earth-spheres where the aliens and strange ethereal creatures roam.

Dreams are like a holodeck, the sky is merely a mental projected image, in the astral however things have real substance and depth.

Years of practicing and teaching hatha yoga (the physical 'excercise' component of the overall philosophy), and study of the raja yogas (philosophy), with practice adapted in the Buddhist sense of moderatation to a healthy medium of living in the modern world without cutting myself off from the ambient culture.

Actually I tend to think that any of the physical disciplines such as yoga or the martial arts which have a basis in

1) Physical -- not 'mastery' of -- but full, fluid, controlled physical presence in one's full range of motion, and

2) The philsophical basis -- not of 'mastery' -- but of responsible, well-balanced physical human life

are pathways to this "full" sense of living within a realm of vibrant energy, as compared to merely occupying a torso with appendages.

Robert Bruce is the best reference material I've seen on the subject - good choice. Get your hands on his book "Psychic Self Defense" if you haven't already.
Yes, dreams are definitely more under their control - which is why it's the arena where you have to demolish that control. The reason that astral travelling is a little more dangerous is that for most people it requires "their" assistance - and they require their pound of flesh in return - which I reject outright. Nevertheless, perhaps Robert Bruce's methods bypass that requirement.

Yes the astral realms are more solid. Does this make them more real? Perhaps. It is interesting the beings you meet there I agree. The world is far larger than most people realise.

Purposefully attempting to experience "mysterious" things like out-of-body is strongly discouraged in Buddhist tradition and teaching.

Better to live well and with constant expression of compassion in the here and now.

Thanks gmb and well said - your inner balance comes through in your writing :)

Yes! I think this understanding is key, especially for Westerner's looking into this stuff.

Once I "let go" my pretensions to and imaginings of things like "energies" and "auras" and simply relaxed into my structure and began to feel what's going on (rather than trying to visualized) I started to make much better progress.

Part of this is language - translation and metaphor. Chinese characters and ideograms are very complex, and most often can't be fully or concisely translated into english. This is especially the case with talk of "energies" - they use a non-specific word to describe an experience which is almost impossible to describe and then its translated to be even less specific.

That, and at the end of the day, no matter how you describe it, or in whatever language, its all just a metaphor for what's really happening anyway. So you get these ubiquitous terms like "energy", "fire, "water", "qi" used to describe a myriad of different things that are going on.

For example, you can't breathe through your hands or the top of your head. But you can work with an "energy" that very much feels like breathing - it might be related to the breath-energy (perhaps more subtle or finer).

That said, I think "rational" explanations such as have been provided are of most use to Westerners. This isn't to dismiss artistic or poetic instruction (its still needed where reason hasn't caught up to intuition) but to emphasize clear instructions and then practice is most important. "Understanding" will come only with practice, it can't precede it.

The major obstacle is that for many Westerners to overcome the tendency to impose our own romanticism and anti-science views on Eastern systems. We do this because we assume the "West" is materialist, mundane, rational, and disenchanted; where as the "East" is mysterious and magical (which is what we're looking for).

Basic Cartesian dualism makes this stuff sound woo woo (postiively and negatively depending on your outlook) but it isn't at all. When experienced, especially early on, its feels entirely "physical" or "mundane".

As mentioned you really need to start approaching these things as having natural, not supernatural existence. At least in regards to this stuff - I don't claim to astral travel or perform high magic.

Agreed. It should always begin with a life based on sound principles.
And yes, seeking these things for kicks is a dangerous road that snares many.
One may naturally reach a point at which practicing energetic discipline becomes your task. The life of principle and self-control that has preceded this point gives you the tools needed to approach this area with the care that is required.
We have an energetic aspect for a reason.
But I agree that it is not for everyone - and it is certainly the safer option to avoid it and to focus on living a self-disciplined life.

Well said.

You absolutely have to a "physical/embodied" practice which fixes attention on the body and a "philosophical" practice which is also a kind of exercise (not merely memorizing verse but learning to reflect upon and work with them as mental exercises).

I'm fairly "Taoist" in both approaches, but there are others - 'Eastern' and 'Western'. IMO the Eastern traditions are better preserved and taught, although many "Western" methods are being rediscovered and reappropriated.

Here is a random thought for discussion, as we ponder the eggshape of energy/ awareness/ presense-in around us:

Birds.

Yes, birds. They have a lobe of the brain we do not have. Thus, we have nothing to compare to, and even scientists don't have a clue what it does.

But birds are able to know where other members of their family or flock are even when they are out of sight and beyond earshot. They range far out to feed during the day, then muster back to roost together at night.

It is as though their "eggshape" of propriocentric perception kind of expands outward to include family and flock.

Thanks Canada. I agree with everything you've said.
I don't proscribe to any given movement. They all have strong points, they all have weaknesses.
Your mentioning of Descartes is appropriate - this notion that our energetic/spiritual aspect is somehow this nebulous thing that sits outside our real selves is an enormous obstacle. But then again this world is about setting obstacles for us to overcome.
It has always amazed me how the energetic aspect of ourselves is very "physical". I think there is good reason for this (rather than the obvious retort that that lends credence to it all being imagination).
When you experience these things, any idea that they are illusionary is dispelled. The mind is our greatest enemy while at the same time being our greatest tool.
I'm glad you mentioned magic, which I avoid. It is power granted by others. It is the illusion of power.
I've always focussed on the aspect of personal freedom in this regard.

Thanks gmb - I didn't know that.
There are so many things like this that people conveniently ignore.
Sounds similar to how we can tell when someone is looking at us - even if they are behind us.

Of course no one in this thread (yet) has seemed to be ignorantly looking for thrills, but I have known of too many people who become unbalanced and unwell seeking out the mysterious, and becoming incompetent at the simple task of living a good life.

With sustained practice of a traditional physical/ philosophical discipline, then the other realisations unfold naturally, and are not at all mysterious, they simply 'are'. Present as part of more fully living and experiencing one's practice -- no more and no less.

Discipline and modertion, plus applying oneself to live with responsibility and compassion are all that are necessary.

At worst you just live a good life and harm none. At best, you live with calm vigor and wellbeing for all of your days in this flesh.

360 degrees
361 points

go....

Yes we've had a good run so far.
Seeking a thing is always an act of the ego.
And yet we still have to act - therein lies one of the great conundrums.
I sometimes wonder if what we know of as "desire" in Buddhism has more of a meaning of "seeking" in the original.

neat stuff~

Go....

Weiqi....


[link to en.wikipedia.org]


the shape of things....

yes they do