Godlike Productions - Discussion Forum
Users Online Now: 618 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 79,158
Pageviews Today: 196,440Threads Today: 129Posts Today: 3,079
05:58 AM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul

 
never96

User ID: 42723662
United States
08/03/2013 09:43 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
I have read all 94 pages now and could we not just redeem our checks for US coinage, such as nickels, quarters etc.? They are not FRN's after all...

AC194:
Yes, you could. You could also demand redemption on all deposits and write personal checks for everything. You could also get Postal money orders for bills and such.

If you missed it, there is a US treasury note on ever currently issued FRN above the 2 "dollar" denomination. The demand is what matters, your record (copies of all checks/deposits) and then just go about your affairs.
 Quoting: never96


EXACTLY! Make sure you keep proof of that/those transaction(s)!
 Quoting: Jknoph

Thanks for the responses!! Does anyone know when the bank is doing their accounting for the amount of actual money that they can lend out for loans and for their fractional reserve lending, do they not include the coins they have in their possession? For example, they have a million dollars in deposits and cash on hand, they also have a million dollars in quarters, nickels and dimes. Which makes a total of 2 million dollars. Do they know and record the fact they can only lend against the 1 million in FRN's and not the coins?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 40017194
United States
08/03/2013 09:40 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
I have read all 94 pages now and could we not just redeem our checks for US coinage, such as nickels, quarters etc.? They are not FRN's after all...

AC194:
Yes, you could. You could also demand redemption on all deposits and write personal checks for everything. You could also get Postal money orders for bills and such.

If you missed it, there is a US treasury note on ever currently issued FRN above the 2 "dollar" denomination. The demand is what matters, your record (copies of all checks/deposits) and then just go about your affairs.
 Quoting: never96


EXACTLY! Make sure you keep proof of that/those transaction(s)!
 Quoting: Jknoph

Thanks for the responses!! Does anyone know when the bank is doing their accounting for the amount of actual money that they can lend out for loans and for their fractional reserve lending, do they not include the coins they have in their possession? For example, they have a million dollars in deposits and cash on hand, they also have a million dollars in quarters, nickels and dimes. Which makes a total of 2 million dollars. Do they know and record the fact they can only lend against the 1 million in FRN's and not the coins?
 Quoting: never96


Look up "fractional reserve lending" and fractional reserve banking. With 1 million (in actual notes or just deposits) they can loan 9 million out in "new currency). All debt, of course.
never96

User ID: 42723662
United States
08/04/2013 08:56 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
I have read all 94 pages now and could we not just redeem our checks for US coinage, such as nickels, quarters etc.? They are not FRN's after all...

AC194:
Yes, you could. You could also demand redemption on all deposits and write personal checks for everything. You could also get Postal money orders for bills and such.

If you missed it, there is a US treasury note on ever currently issued FRN above the 2 "dollar" denomination. The demand is what matters, your record (copies of all checks/deposits) and then just go about your affairs.
 Quoting: never96


EXACTLY! Make sure you keep proof of that/those transaction(s)!
 Quoting: Jknoph

Thanks for the responses!! Does anyone know when the bank is doing their accounting for the amount of actual money that they can lend out for loans and for their fractional reserve lending, do they not include the coins they have in their possession? For example, they have a million dollars in deposits and cash on hand, they also have a million dollars in quarters, nickels and dimes. Which makes a total of 2 million dollars. Do they know and record the fact they can only lend against the 1 million in FRN's and not the coins?
 Quoting: never96


Look up "fractional reserve lending" and fractional reserve banking. With 1 million (in actual notes or just deposits) they can loan 9 million out in "new currency). All debt, of course.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40017194

I know all about fractional reserve lending, but what I'm wanting to know is if they actually purposely leave out their coinage on hand because THEY understand the fact that coins cannot be added to the portion of the books that can be loaned out. I have a good friend that is the bank manager at Chase and he knows nothing of fractional reserve lending. I wonder if the accountant at his bank does to?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 40017194
United States
08/04/2013 10:49 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
...


EXACTLY! Make sure you keep proof of that/those transaction(s)!
 Quoting: Jknoph

Thanks for the responses!! Does anyone know when the bank is doing their accounting for the amount of actual money that they can lend out for loans and for their fractional reserve lending, do they not include the coins they have in their possession? For example, they have a million dollars in deposits and cash on hand, they also have a million dollars in quarters, nickels and dimes. Which makes a total of 2 million dollars. Do they know and record the fact they can only lend against the 1 million in FRN's and not the coins?
 Quoting: never96


Look up "fractional reserve lending" and fractional reserve banking. With 1 million (in actual notes or just deposits) they can loan 9 million out in "new currency). All debt, of course.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40017194

I know all about fractional reserve lending, but what I'm wanting to know is if they actually purposely leave out their coinage on hand because THEY understand the fact that coins cannot be added to the portion of the books that can be loaned out. I have a good friend that is the bank manager at Chase and he knows nothing of fractional reserve lending. I wonder if the accountant at his bank does to?
 Quoting: never96

There must be some sort of book keeping that separates coin from all other forms of debt (paper or electronic).

Current code for Federal reserve agents have special rules for the handling and accounting for "lawful money" so at some level the difference is known.

I know for a fact that banks will switch an interest bearing checking or savings account to non-interest bearing account status after lawful money demand is made.

When setting up new accounts, I have my trustee request the accounts be for deposits and withdrawals of lawful money and tell the bank employee the accounts not be interest bearing, to date, there has been no issues with opening new accounts this way, nor demanding lawful money on the signature card.
never96

User ID: 42723662
United States
08/04/2013 04:55 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul

I know all about fractional reserve lending, but what I'm wanting to know is if they actually purposely leave out their coinage on hand because THEY understand the fact that coins cannot be added to the portion of the books that can be loaned out. I have a good friend that is the bank manager at Chase and he knows nothing of fractional reserve lending. I wonder if the accountant at his bank does to?

There must be some sort of book keeping that separates coin from all other forms of debt (paper or electronic).

Current code for Federal reserve agents have special rules for the handling and accounting for "lawful money" so at some level the difference is known.

I know for a fact that banks will switch an interest bearing checking or savings account to non-interest bearing account status after lawful money demand is made.

When setting up new accounts, I have my trustee request the accounts be for deposits and withdrawals of lawful money and tell the bank employee the accounts not be interest bearing, to date, there has been no issues with opening new accounts this way, nor demanding lawful money on the signature card.


Thanks... that was the answer I was looking for. I will ask my friend at Chase if he can verify your info. I hope he can. I spoke to a trader friend of mine just today about this topic and I am sending him all the DD I have done on lawful money. He has had IRS issues in the past and he is looking forward to the info.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 40017194
United States
08/04/2013 08:28 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
You are welcome. I have been told, but have not verified, at the regional bank level is where the accounting for "lawful money" deposits take place.

I do not know anyone at that level of banking so I cannot confirm this. On the suitors forum, one suitor tells the manager at his local bank was given a new assignment after it was learned the suitors deposits with demand were placed in as normal deposits. The teller was curious and asked the suitor about what lawful money was because it was the reason the manager was reassigned. Again, this is hearsay to me, I do not know if it's true or not.

I can only report on what I have done myself and the results to date.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 43637591
United States
08/09/2013 11:58 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
this thread is now years old. is there anyone here, perhaps a member, that has tried this? I work for one of the alphabet agencies and would love to know if this is legit.

thanks
 Quoting: agent73


It doesn't work, and its already been tested.

Nearly 40 years ago.

Demanding redemption of FRNs under Title 12 USC 411 and you get more FRNs.

Appellant has filed a substantial brief and an adequate reply brief and has argued his full share of allotted time in support for a demand that his $50.00 Federal Reserve Bank Note be redeemed in "lawful money" of the United States, which he says, in effect, must be gold or silver. Appellant refused appellees' tender of an equivalent value in Federal Reserve Notes.
 Quoting: Milam V. United States


Federal Reserve Notes are lawful money. What the 'redeemed in lawful money' crowd knows, but really hope you don't....is that the role of Federal Reserve Notes was vastly expanded in 1933.

United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign gold or silver coins are not legal tender for debts.
 Quoting: 31 USC § 5103


Elevating the FRN from intrabank lending instrument it had been when Title 12 USC 411 was passed in 1913 to full fledged national currency. And with that upgrade, FRNs became lawful money.

And the court recognizes FRNs as lawful money. Explicitly.

Defendant argues that the Federal Reserve Notes in which he was paid were not lawful money within the meaning of Art. 1, § 8, United States Constitution. We have held to the contrary. United States v. Ware, 10 Cir., 608 F.2d 400, 402-403. We find no validity in the distinction which defendant draws between "lawful money" and "legal tender." Money is a medium of exchange. Legal tender is money which the law requires a creditor to receive in payment of an obligation.
 Quoting: US v. Rickman


And again, just in case there was any ambiguity.

In the exercise of that power Congress has declared that Federal Reserve Notes are legal tender and are redeemable in lawful money. Defendant received Federal Reserve Notes when he cashed his pay checks and used those notes to pay his personal expenses. He obtained and used lawful money.
 Quoting: US V. Rickman


Even practically, the 'Redeem in lawful money' argument is pointless. The US government doesn't even have US Notes any longer, having long since destroyed its entire stockpile.

And of course, 31 USC § 5103 makes *all* US currency legal tender for all taxes. And US currency notes are US currency.

Beating to a pulp this already dead horse.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 40017194
United States
08/09/2013 02:43 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
" We find no validity in the distinction which defendant draws between "lawful money" and "legal tender." Money is a medium of exchange. Legal tender is money which the law requires a creditor to receive in payment of an obligation."

WE FIND NO VALIDITY IN THE DISTINCTION THE DEFENDANT draws between "lawful money" and "legal tender".

Wordsmithing legalese at its finest. Clearly there is a distinction, or there would have beenNO REDEMPTION FOR LAWFUL MONEY ever!!
The court did not agree with the defendants claim that "lawful money" means direct redeem ability into gold or silver.

You are a liar a da shill and have no right to tell us what the courts ruling did or did not mean.

Keep bumping the thread with your ignorance because people are still stopping the IRS dead in its tracks with lawful money demand per 12 USC 411.

Me included.

Shill on asshole cause the facts are the facts.
[link to savingtosuitorsclub.net]

There are many people doing this, backed up with responses directly from the IRS. No matter what the GLP IRS/FED shill wants to lie about, the evidence is mounting daily against his lies.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 40017194
United States
08/09/2013 02:54 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Contract makes law!! It is a maximum of law!

You can make ANY "legal tender" "lawful money" as a medium of exchange for that contract.

That does not mean any legal tender is "lawful money" on its own.

It really is simple but some try to expand and twist the wording if the Rickman case to mean FRNs are no longer redeemable in lawful money because FRNs are included in federal definitions of "legal tender".

Do not be sucked into that outright LIE. The other case agreed the defendant "had the right to redeem his note"...

But not on gold or silver!!

It's all about offer and acceptance, there is no definition of standing US law that recognizes FRNs as "lawful money" as issued. Only AFTER the assumed or presumed endorsement of the living man or woman via contractual agreement do FRNs become a form of lawful.

Keep your eyes open, there is a viper on the loose.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 40017194
United States
08/09/2013 03:08 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
[link to onswipe.investopedia.com]

Look up the definitions and explanations yourself.

Next he shill is going to claim "the courts" decide what definitions are, tha is bullshit.

The courts look at the facts of each case to determine the ruling. There is no one case that defines law for all other cases, if that were true, there would be no need for courts at all, there would be no question what the "law" is or is not.

The courts and judges are not the final word for anything but the case and the facts before them in that case!

Rickman endorsed and used FRNs when he "cashed his checks", then he tried to claim those notes were not "lawful money" BECAUSE they are not redeemable in "gold or silver" per the Constitution.

The IRS saw he never demanded redemption for his paychecks, therefore the fact that FRNs are redeemable "for lawful money" was irrelevant to the case. He did receive and use FRNs as lawful money and had to pay the fee for doing so.

The case ruling was legal and just, he received the benefit and them tried to refuse to pay the price for doing so.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 43637591
United States
08/09/2013 04:18 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
" We find no validity in the distinction which defendant draws between "lawful money" and "legal tender." Money is a medium of exchange. Legal tender is money which the law requires a creditor to receive in payment of an obligation."

WE FIND NO VALIDITY IN THE DISTINCTION THE DEFENDANT draws between "lawful money" and "legal tender".

Wordsmithing legalese at its finest. Clearly there is a distinction, or there would have beenNO REDEMPTION FOR LAWFUL MONEY ever!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40017194


Dude.....you say one thing. The courts say another. They're legally authoritative. You're not.

Once again, your argument is that we ignore the courts, ignore the law....and just accept whatever you imagine.

Um, no.

As for 'no redemption of lawful money ever'.....Milam v. the US clearly demonstrates you're wrong.

Appellant has filed a substantial brief and an adequate reply brief and has argued his full share of allotted time in support for a demand that his $50.00 Federal Reserve Bank Note be redeemed in "lawful money" of the United States, which he says, in effect, must be gold or silver. Appellant refused appellees' tender of an equivalent value in Federal Reserve Notes.
 Quoting:


Demand redemption of FRNs under Title 12 USC 411....and you get FRNs. Exactly as Milam did almost 40 years ago.

You simply don't know what you're talking about.


The court did not agree with the defendants claim that "lawful money" means direct redeem ability into gold or silver.


That's what you say. This is what the court says:

Defendant received Federal Reserve Notes when he cashed his pay checks and used those notes to pay his personal expenses. He obtained and used lawful money.
 Quoting: US V. Rickman


Not just once. But twice:

Defendant argues that the Federal Reserve Notes in which he was paid were not lawful money within the meaning of Art. 1, § 8, United States Constitution. We have held to the contrary.
 Quoting: US V. Rickman


You disagree with the courts. So what? The courts are authoritative. You aren't.

Get used to the idea. Its not changing.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 43637591
United States
08/09/2013 04:31 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Contract makes law!! It is a maximum of law!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40017194


You say that contract establishes jurisdiction. The Courts recognize geography;

The power then to lay and collect duties, imposts, and excises may be exercised and must be exercised throughout the United States. Does this term designate the whole, or any particular portion of the American empire? Certainly this question can admit of but one answer. It is the name given to our great republic, which is composed of states and territories.
 Quoting: USSC: Loughborough V. Blake


And I'm pretty sure the USSC knows more about the 'basis of all law' than you do, citing yourself.

It really is simple but some try to expand and twist the wording if the Rickman case to mean FRNs are no longer redeemable in lawful money because FRNs are included in federal definitions of "legal tender".
 Quoting:


More accurately, some quote what the Rickman decision actually says. Instead of ignoring Rickman as you do:

Defendant received Federal Reserve Notes when he cashed his pay checks and used those notes to pay his personal expenses. He obtained and used lawful money.
 Quoting: US V. Rickman


You say one thing. The courts say another. The courts win.


It's all about offer and acceptance, there is no definition of standing US law that recognizes FRNs as "lawful money" as issued. Only AFTER the assumed or presumed endorsement of the living man or woman via contractual agreement do FRNs become a form of lawful.
 Quoting:


You say its about the offer and acceptance. The Rickman court never says this. You say contract defines lawful money. The Rickman courts never even mentioned contract. You imagined it all.

Your imagination isn't the law. You can't get around that.

Look up the definitions and explanations yourself.
 Quoting:


Indeed. Start with Title 12. Tell us, shill.....where does Title 12, USC 411 say anything about US Notes?

And of course, why do you continue to ignore Title 31;

United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign gold or silver coins are not legal tender for debts.
 Quoting: 31 USC § 5103


Which clearly defines a greater role for the FRN in 1933 than Title 12 USC 411 did in 1913. How do you reconcile these enormous contradictions between what you *say* and what the law does?

You ignore 31 USC § 5103 and pretend it doesn't exist. If only reality worked that way.

Worse......31 USC § 5103 clearly states that *all* US currencies can be used to pay all taxes. Obliterating your claim that US Notes can't be used to pay taxes. US currency notes are US currency.

There's simply no part of this you got right.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 40017194
United States
08/09/2013 04:45 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Legal tender. Legal tender. Legal tender.

What part of those words do YOU not get?

Legal tender is NOT LAWFUL MONEY OR IT WOULD NOT BE TITLED LEGAL TENDER.

Lawful money is ONLY issued directly by the US TREASURY. Unless legal tender is lawful via contract endorcement.

"THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS PUBLIC AND PRIVATE" it can be refused for payment of any debt.

Lawful money cannot be refused as payment of debt.

"The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," which states: "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."

This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy."

Right from the treasury official site. If it can be refused as a payment of debt, it is NOT LAWFUL MONEY.

Shut up already.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 40017194
United States
08/09/2013 05:10 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
12 USC 411 stands: FRNs "shall be redeemed on demand"

The shill states the FRNs will be redeemed for new FRNs, so be it. The record of demand proves that no endorsement of federal reserve debt took place.

Lawful money stands in contrast to "lawful money". If there was no redemption, the fellow that sent his 50 dollar FRN to the treasury for "redemption in lawful money" would have gotten the same 50 $ bill back, he did not, he received a different note that was redeemed.

The FRN he sent in was taken out of circulation because it had been redeemed for lawful money per 12 USC 411.

I do not care if the shill agrees, he is frankly, ignorant and I do not need the agreement of the ignorant to be correct on this issue.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 44851926
United States
08/09/2013 05:23 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
12 USC 411 stands: FRNs "shall be redeemed on demand"

The shill states the FRNs will be redeemed for new FRNs, so be it. The record of demand proves that no endorsement of federal reserve debt took place.

Lawful money stands in contrast to "lawful money". If there was no redemption, the fellow that sent his 50 dollar FRN to the treasury for "redemption in lawful money" would have gotten the same 50 $ bill back, he did not, he received a different note that was redeemed.

The FRN he sent in was taken out of circulation because it had been redeemed for lawful money per 12 USC 411.

I do not care if the shill agrees, he is frankly, ignorant and I do not need the agreement of the ignorant to be correct on this issue.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40017194


And this is pertinent in not paying taxes just how?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 43637591
United States
08/09/2013 05:37 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Lawful money is ONLY issued directly by the US TREASURY. Unless legal tender is lawful via contract endorcement.
 Quoting:


Says you, citing your imagination. The law doesn't say this. Not about lawful money being issued by the US treasury. Not about 'contract endorsement'.

You imagined it all. And your imagination isn't law.

The limitations you've imagined don't exist. The caveats you've invented don't exist. And all your babble about 'contracts' creating lawful money is just you citing yourself.

Which is meaningless.

Lawful money cannot be refused as payment of debt.
 Quoting:


Says who? Where in US law does it say that 'lawful money' can't be refused for payment of a debt? Your imagination is just running wild.

And still isn't law. Get used to it.

"The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," which states: "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."

This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor.
 Quoting:


Exactly. US currency notes are most definitely US currency. Meaning that your entire 'US Notes can't be used to pay taxes' argument is dead. US currency is legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes and dues.

You simply don't know what you're talking about.

Right from the treasury official site. If it can be refused as a payment of debt, it is NOT LAWFUL MONEY.
 Quoting:

Um, dude....did you even read what you just posted?

The term 'lawful money' is never mentioned once. Not in your entire citation. Not in entire page you linked to. The Treasury cite never says that 'if it can be refused as payment for debt, its not lawful money'

You just made that up, imagining entire sentences that simply don't exist.

And your imagination is irrelevant. As you define nothing.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 40017194
United States
08/09/2013 06:12 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Legal tender was the subject of the treasury quote you twat.

Legal tender can be refused, lawful money cannot.

LEGAL TENDER CASES, 110 U.S. 421 (1884)
110 U.S. 421

'THE LEGAL-TENDER CASES.'
JUILLIARD
v.
GREENMAN.

March 3, 1884

Lawful money cannot be refused for payment, dumbass. That case was about US Notes.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 40017194
United States
08/09/2013 06:19 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
It's not my imagination, it's the LAW, you flipping twat.

12 USC 411 SHALL BE REDEEMED ON DEMAND...

Too bad you cannot read legalese. Too bad for you do not speak or ack for me. To bad the IRS continues to give full refunds to those demanding lawful money redemption.

Too bad you are a debtor to the Federal Reserve and a Peon. Too bad you are a sub par shill who cannot twist the truth worth a damn and must plagiarize all your responses directly from the Federal Reaerve website.

FRNs are not lawful money as issued and are redeemable for lawful money on demand.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 43637591
United States
08/09/2013 06:34 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
12 USC 411 stands: FRNs "shall be redeemed on demand"

The shill states the FRNs will be redeemed for new FRNs, so be it. The record of demand proves that no endorsement of federal reserve debt took place.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40017194


Says you. The courts didn't agree. When Mobley Milam was given FRNs for FRNs, they dismissed Milam's objections and his case as 'frivilous' and 'meritless'. The redemption of FRNs will get your more FRNs.

Again, you're under the misconception that *you* get to define what lawful money is. You don't.

Lawful money stands in contrast to "lawful money".
 Quoting:


Um, what? Dude, you're just making this nonsense up as you go along now.

If there was no redemption, the fellow that sent his 50 dollar FRN to the treasury for "redemption in lawful money" would have gotten the same 50 $ bill back, he did not, he received a different note that was redeemed.
 Quoting:

Milam received FRNs of equivalent value. Which the courts upheld when they dismissed Milam's case.

Call your local Federal Reserve Bank. Here's the number for one that's still open on the West Coast

(800) 227-4133

Ask them directly. They'll tell you what they told Milam. And they just told me. You get FRNs in redemption for FRNs under Title 12 Section 411.

They'll also tell you what I've been telling you for days: they don't have any US Notes.

Lastly, there's no distinction between lawful money and "lawful money" in the law.

You've imagined it.


The FRN he sent in was taken out of circulation because it had been redeemed for lawful money per 12 USC 411.
 Quoting:


You're almost right. He redeemed his FRN for lawful money under Title 12, USC 411. And received FRNs of equivalent value. Exactly as I said would happen. And you indicated never could.

Utterly obliterating your argument.

As for the FRNs being 'taken out of ciruclation', reissue of the bills after redemption is common. It depends entirely on the condition of the individual bill.

I do not care if the shill agrees, he is frankly, ignorant and I do not need the agreement of the ignorant to be correct on this issue.
 Quoting:

The Milam courts, history, and the call I just made to the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco say otherwise. Both affirmed FRNs for FRNs when redeeming FRNs under Title 12 USC 411.

You simply don't know what you're talking about.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 43637591
United States
08/09/2013 06:38 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Legal tender was the subject of the treasury quote you twat.

Legal tender can be refused, lawful money cannot.

LEGAL TENDER CASES, 110 U.S. 421 (1884)
110 U.S. 421

'THE LEGAL-TENDER CASES.'
JUILLIARD
v.
GREENMAN.

March 3, 1884

Lawful money cannot be refused for payment, dumbass. That case was about US Notes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40017194


Don't tell me. SHOW me. Quote the passage in Julliard V. Greenman that says that lawful money cannot be refused for payment.

There's a reason you cited the case name but not the passage you believe backs up your claims.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 44851926
United States
08/09/2013 06:40 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
It's not my imagination, it's the LAW, you flipping twat.

12 USC 411 SHALL BE REDEEMED ON DEMAND...

Too bad you cannot read legalese. Too bad for you do not speak or ack for me. To bad the IRS continues to give full refunds to those demanding lawful money redemption.

Too bad you are a debtor to the Federal Reserve and a Peon. Too bad you are a sub par shill who cannot twist the truth worth a damn and must plagiarize all your responses directly from the Federal Reaerve website.

FRNs are not lawful money as issued and are redeemable for lawful money on demand.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40017194


Excuse me

Who has gotten "full refunds" when demanding "lawful money"?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 43637591
United States
08/09/2013 06:44 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
It's not my imagination, it's the LAW, you flipping twat.

12 USC 411 SHALL BE REDEEMED ON DEMAND...

Too bad you cannot read legalese. Too bad for you do not speak or ack for me. To bad the IRS continues to give full refunds to those demanding lawful money redemption.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40017194


Dude, your imagination isn't 'legalese' nor does it have anything to do with the law. The courts recognize FRNs as lawful money. The courts upheld the redemption of FRNs for FRNs under Title 12 USC 411.

Two things you insist could never happen.

You simply don't know what you're talking about.

FRNs are not lawful money as issued and are redeemable for lawful money on demand.
 Quoting:


Says you. Yet Milam V. US shows you're clueless:


Appellant has filed a substantial brief and an adequate reply brief and has argued his full share of allotted time in support for a demand that his $50.00 Federal Reserve Bank Note be redeemed in "lawful money" of the United States, which he says, in effect, must be gold or silver. Appellant refused appellees' tender of an equivalent value in Federal Reserve Notes.
 Quoting: Milam v. US


Demand FRNs be redeemed under Title 12 USC 411...and you get more FRNs. Exactly as Milam did.

The US government doesn't even have US Notes any longer. Making your theory not only wrong, but pointless.

And of course, the courts explicitly recognize FRNs as lawful money:

Defendant argues that the Federal Reserve Notes in which he was paid were not lawful money within the meaning of Art. 1, § 8, United States Constitution. We have held to the contrary.
 Quoting: US V. Rickman


And again in the same ruling:

Defendant received Federal Reserve Notes when he cashed his pay checks and used those notes to pay his personal expenses. He obtained and used lawful money.
 Quoting: US v. Rickman


The courts say one thing. You say another.

The courts win.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 43637591
United States
08/09/2013 06:47 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
It's not my imagination, it's the LAW, you flipping twat.

12 USC 411 SHALL BE REDEEMED ON DEMAND...

Too bad you cannot read legalese. Too bad for you do not speak or ack for me. To bad the IRS continues to give full refunds to those demanding lawful money redemption.

Too bad you are a debtor to the Federal Reserve and a Peon. Too bad you are a sub par shill who cannot twist the truth worth a damn and must plagiarize all your responses directly from the Federal Reaerve website.

FRNs are not lawful money as issued and are redeemable for lawful money on demand.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40017194


Excuse me

Who has gotten "full refunds" when demanding "lawful money"?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 44851926


No one. They simply claim they have no tax obligations.....and fraudulently fill out a zero tax obligation on their tax forms.

No court has *ever* held that 'demanding lawful money' makes you immune to taxation. No law says this. Its just another tax avoidance con being shucked by shills trying to drive up web traffic on their sites.

Any minute now they'll start posting their urls. Shills are nothing if not predictable.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 40017194
United States
08/09/2013 07:20 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Saving to the suitors club has many members who have received full refunds, state and federal plus interest after demanding lawful money per 12 USC 411.

So again, you are a proven LIAR.

12 USC 411 has not been repealed, redemption on demand for lawful money.

Your opinion of the courts opinion means no more than mine.

Idiot.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 43637591
United States
08/09/2013 07:27 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul

How does one go about demanding lawful money (rather than federal reserve notes)?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 692708


I called a West Coast Federal Reserve Bank (SF I think) to find out. They indicated that they don't offer direct services to the public. If you wanted to 'redeem' bills, you would so through a Federal Reserve member bank. And they would put the request in for you.

And you'll get FRNs for FRNs in redemption. As FRNs are lawful money. And because the US government no longer has US Notes...save for literal handful in the museums at each bank. One of each denomination according to the Banking Regulation expert I was able to get a hold of.



How does one prove their FRNs were converted to lawful money, thereby exempting the income tax?
 Quoting:


There's no such exemption. Income tax was paid when US notes was the default national currency. Income tax is paid when we went to FRNs in 1933.

All currencies are legal tender for all taxes. Anyone who tells you differently is trying to sell you something.

If one converts ALL their income for a year to lawful money, do they simply not file a 1040 or is there a form or forms they can file in lieu of the 1040 to be sure the IRS isn't going to come after them years later?
 Quoting:


No court has recognized this imaginary 'lawful money' exemption from taxation. No law makes any mention of it. Its completely made up.

So you have no such assurances. Generally speaking, if a 'tax avoidance' con sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

People have been doing this since 1933 (actually, this has been an issue since the civil war), most of the time, they would just exchange the FRNs for US Bank Notes, but that changed in 1977.
 Quoting:


No they haven't. This con is pretty new. There's nothing that indicates that US Bank Notes make immune to income tax. No law states this. No court ruling states this. The object of taxation in income tax is income. Not the currency.

As for the IRS, one could file for a full refund or, after a year of redeeming lawful money, do a ZERO withholding on the employers W-4.
 Quoting:


You could. But if you're caught, there's no legal protections. No court has *ever* recognized that 'demanding lawful money' makes you immune from income tax.

And some random guy on the internet saying it must be so doesn't have a great track record. Ask Bill Benson (federal prison time), Wayne C. Bentson (federal prison time) Peter Hendrickson (federal prison time), Irwin Schiff (convicted 4 times, and will likely die in federal prison), or Ed and Elaine Brown (still in federal prison)...

....they were all certain that *their' tax avoidance con made them immune from income tax. It didn't. And that's just the leaders of each flavor of tax avoidance conspiracy. There are countless poor schmucks who bought into their con game....and were convicted too. And did prison time too.

Shrugs....Good luck.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 43637591
United States
08/09/2013 07:39 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Saving to the suitors club has many members who have received full refunds, state and federal plus interest after demanding lawful money per 12 USC 411.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40017194


And exactly as predicted....the shilling begins. Exactly as predicted, they're encouraging you to follow their URL and drive up their web traffic.

Last year the in vogue tax con was 'Lost Horizons'. Till Peter Hendrickson went to prison. With many of the poor bastards that swallowed his con under indictment. Including his own wife.

This year, the shills switch to the 'savings to suitors' con.

Next year, who knows? The tax avoidance schemes change from year to year, the shills trying to get poor schucks to buy into their latest con remains the same.

12 USC 411 has not been repealed, redemption on demand for lawful money.
 Quoting:


And FRNs are lawful money. Says the courts:

Defendant argues that the Federal Reserve Notes in which he was paid were not lawful money within the meaning of Art. 1, § 8, United States Constitution. We have held to the contrary.
 Quoting: US. V. Rickman


And again in the same ruling:

Defendant received Federal Reserve Notes when he cashed his pay checks and used those notes to pay his personal expenses. He obtained and used lawful money.
 Quoting: US v. Rickman


The courts say one thing. You say another.

They win.
Your opinion of the courts opinion means no more than mine.
 Quoting:


And by your own admission, no court has *ever* recognized your argument as valid. Not once. Not ever.

Its just you, citing you, insisting you must be right because you say you are.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 40017194
United States
08/09/2013 07:40 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Shrugs...bye dumb ass. Your argument from ignorance was brilliant. Your prophetic warning of doom will not be heeded. That's what being an adult is all about, making choices and living with the consequences.

Don't like what I do with my affairs, too bad. The law stands and you are not my attorney nor my tax advisor.

To shill somewhere else, nothing on this thread is legal advice and until people do their own research they should not try anything. I am not afraid of the IRS, nor am I going to stop demanding lawful money per 12 USC 411.

Bye.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 40017194
United States
08/09/2013 07:46 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
And what I posted is no court has ever heard a case after someone has demanded lawful money via restricted endorsement as on this and other threads.

Keep your lies out of my posts. You are again, a proven liar. Also, why don't you refute the tax returns, stoppages of accounts seized and return checks that are on the saving to the suitors club forum?

You claimed there have been no returns baised on lawful money demand from the IRS, more lies from the SHILL.

No contract, no obligation. And your claim there has never been a case proclaiming lawful money non-taxable is also a lie, one search on the web I found 2 of them.

Liar.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 44864086
United States
08/09/2013 08:02 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Saving to the suitors club has many members who have received full refunds, state and federal plus interest after demanding lawful money per 12 USC 411.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40017194


And exactly as predicted....the shilling begins. Exactly as predicted, they're encouraging you to follow their URL and drive up their web traffic.

Last year the in vogue tax con was 'Lost Horizons'. Till Peter Hendrickson went to prison. With many of the poor bastards that swallowed his con under indictment. Including his own wife.

This year, the shills switch to the 'savings to suitors' con.

Next year, who knows? The tax avoidance schemes change from year to year, the shills trying to get poor schucks to buy into their latest con remains the same.

12 USC 411 has not been repealed, redemption on demand for lawful money.
 Quoting:


And FRNs are lawful money. Says the courts:

Defendant argues that the Federal Reserve Notes in which he was paid were not lawful money within the meaning of Art. 1, § 8, United States Constitution. We have held to the contrary.
 Quoting: US. V. Rickman


And again in the same ruling:

Defendant received Federal Reserve Notes when he cashed his pay checks and used those notes to pay his personal expenses. He obtained and used lawful money.
 Quoting: US v. Rickman


The courts say one thing. You say another.

They win.
Your opinion of the courts opinion means no more than mine.
 Quoting:


And by your own admission, no court has *ever* recognized your
argument as valid. Not once. Not ever.

Its just you, citing you, insisting you must be right because you say you are.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43637591

Dude, why do you fucking care so much? It's like you work for the IRS. If it's legal, it's legal. If it's not legal, well you aren't breaking the law, so why do you seem to give a huge shit whether that other dude does or not?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 36842606
United States
08/09/2013 08:17 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Power weakens those that do not have it





GLP