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Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul

 
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
The IRS is the one who will have to settle this, you are not the authority in income tax matters. The IRS continues to issue full returns to those demanding lawful money, till that changes or until one of us is charged with a crime, there is nothing more to talk about.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40017194

Then show us any IRS regulation that says that demanding lawful money makes you immune from taxation.

Show us any law that says that demanding lawful money makes you immune from taxation.

Show us any court ruling that says that demanding lawful money makes you immune from taxation.


There isn't any. You've made your entire argument up, citing only yourself.

Where the courts have *explicitly* contradicted you.

And in any battle between you and the courts on the definition of legal terms, the courts win.

You can think you are right all you want and I get to keep what I earn as I have for the past 6 years.
 Quoting:


Uh-huh. Irwin Schiff filed fraudulent returns for 7 before he was caught. Hendricks, for 9 years. Ed and Elaine Brown, 10 years.

And they said exactly what you're saying now: that they were immune from taxation. Until the indictments came. And the prison time was sentenced. And the houses were lost.

You're like some hapless soul that has jumped from the top of a tall building and insists that he's 'immune to gravity' because he hasn't hit the ground yet.
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Question:

Doing the "redeem for lawful money" gets rid of the taxes but what about Social Security and Medicaid?

Also: is it still necessary to file a tax return?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42092165



The answer would be no. On Medicare. Social Security. Income Taxes. Any of it.

There's no law, court ruling or regulation that says that demanding 'lawful money' makes you immune from taxation.

The idea is made up.
Jknoph

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08/15/2013 05:11 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
The IRS is the one who will have to settle this, you are not the authority in income tax matters. The IRS continues to issue full returns to those demanding lawful money, till that changes or until one of us is charged with a crime, there is nothing more to talk about.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40017194

Then show us any IRS regulation that says that demanding lawful money makes you immune from taxation.

Show us any law that says that demanding lawful money makes you immune from taxation.

Show us any court ruling that says that demanding lawful money makes you immune from taxation.


There isn't any. You've made your entire argument up, citing only yourself.

Where the courts have *explicitly* contradicted you.

And in any battle between you and the courts on the definition of legal terms, the courts win.

You can think you are right all you want and I get to keep what I earn as I have for the past 6 years.
 Quoting:


Uh-huh. Irwin Schiff filed fraudulent returns for 7 before he was caught. Hendricks, for 9 years. Ed and Elaine Brown, 10 years.

And they said exactly what you're saying now: that they were immune from taxation. Until the indictments came. And the prison time was sentenced. And the houses were lost.

You're like some hapless soul that has jumped from the top of a tall building and insists that he's 'immune to gravity' because he hasn't hit the ground yet.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43637591


Question:

Doing the "redeem for lawful money" gets rid of the taxes but what about Social Security and Medicaid?

Also: is it still necessary to file a tax return?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42092165



The answer would be no. On Medicare. Social Security. Income Taxes. Any of it.

There's no law, court ruling or regulation that says that demanding 'lawful money' makes you immune from taxation.

The idea is made up.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43637591


This must be famspear or one of the other quatloosers.
freethinkingguy

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08/15/2013 05:23 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Go to any Fed Bank and demand U.S. legal U.S. currency and you will end up getting your money in coins (U.S. Mint not part of the Federal Reserve).
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
This must be famspear or one of the other quatloosers.
 Quoting:

Nope and nope. I'm just a guy who is pointing out that the emperor has no clothes.

And when pressed for any law or court ruling that says that if you demand lawful money you're immune to taxation.....

.....the 'redeemer' tax con is bare assed naked.
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Go to any Fed Bank and demand U.S. legal U.S. currency and you will end up getting your money in coins (U.S. Mint not part of the Federal Reserve).
 Quoting: freethinkingguy

And then?

Coins don't make you immune from taxation either.
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
"...As for the IRS, one could file for a full refund or, after a year of redeeming lawful money, do a ZERO withholding on the employers W-4.

Then, when you file a 1040, you simply have ZERO taxable income, but you must redeem lawful money for a full year before doing that...."


Question for OP:

What if, theoretically, someone did not work for an entire calendar year and, therefore, did not receive a single paycheck...or check of any kind, for that matter. In that case, do you think that person could make a "zero withholding W-4" and a "zero taxable income 1040"?
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08/15/2013 06:32 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
What if, theoretically, someone did not work for an entire calendar year and, therefore, did not receive a single paycheck...or check of any kind, for that matter. In that case, do you think that person could make a "zero withholding W-4" and a "zero taxable income 1040"?
 Quoting:


The tax isn't on 'checks'. The tax is on income.

As for the IRS, one could file for a full refund or, after a year of redeeming lawful money, do a ZERO withholding on the employers W-4.

Then, when you file a 1040, you simply have ZERO taxable income, but you must redeem lawful money for a full year before doing that...."
 Quoting:


And where in the IRS regulation, any US law or any court ruling does it say that if you demand lawful money, you have zero taxable income?

Anyone?

Its remarkably simple: either you're quoting the law. Or you're quoting yourselves.

Which is it?
Anonymous Coward
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08/15/2013 06:44 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
And where in the IRS regulation, any US law or any court ruling does it say that if you demand lawful money, you have zero taxable income?

Anyone?

Its remarkably simple: either you're quoting the law. Or you're quoting yourselves.

Which is it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43637591


They are quoting themselves, this thread has gone on for almost 100 pages and still the Lawful Money Tard can't post anything backing his claim. He is either a shill working for the government or one of the many PAYtriots trying to scam other people out of their money.

For those interested in actually educating themselves check out team law [link to teamlaw.net]
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
And where in the IRS regulation, any US law or any court ruling does it say that if you demand lawful money, you have zero taxable income?

Anyone?

Its remarkably simple: either you're quoting the law. Or you're quoting yourselves.

Which is it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43637591


They are quoting themselves, this thread has gone on for almost 100 pages and still the Lawful Money Tard can't post anything backing his claim. He is either a shill working for the government or one of the many PAYtriots trying to scam other people out of their money.

For those interested in actually educating themselves check out team law [link to teamlaw.net]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43274504


Oh, now the truth comes out, the teamlaw idiots are here.
That explains it all. The Know it all Mormon and NLP manipulater here to drive traffic to HIS for profit website.

It's nothing more than a commercial for his overpriced "law" scam. Follow his advice (after spending 100's or thousands of FRNS to line his pockets, of course) and you will be a Sovereign, withiout ever claiming to be one, of course.

I looked into the teamlaw propaganda years ago and found little, if any actual results. Other than those making FRNs claiming they have results.

A crooked Mormon is a special kind of corruption, be very careful investing your money with them, many people, for over a century have learned painfully expensive lessons doing that very thing.

Numbers must be down at teamlaw. Thier pitch is much like A M W AY, they will never let you know who they are till you are sucked in.

Team law, great luck with that steaming pile of crap place, you will need it!!
Anonymous Coward
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08/16/2013 02:14 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Team law talks all about contracts and trusts, then comes here to argue against contractual acceptance and endorsement of the FEDERAL RESERVE PRIVATE CORPORATE CURRENCY!!

Orwellian double speak at its finest.

Clearly the shill from teamlaw has not read this thread and is only interested in new contracts for his business, complete with FRN endorsement.

I am going to make this as clear as possible, you cannot own property or retain the rights of the people WITHOUT a written recorded and recognized demand for lawful money per 12 USC 411.

Trusts are very powerful, but putting your trust in the federal reserve in any way is a fatal flaw in domestic trusts of any kind.

Yes, they offer much better protection of assets than normal "personal" legal entities and they are useful in negotiating with the commercial government. But I will promise you, without lawful money demand redemption, your TRUSTS will have no more effectiveness than any well made trust done by any attorney who is good at making them.

Team law can do nothing for you a good attorney cannot do better, maybe they can do it for cheaper, but I assure you, they will NOT do it for free.

Nor will it have the same lawful effect than a trust and property redeemed from the commercial US government.

All teamlaw teammates are debtors to the FEDERAL RESERVE they OWE, they do not OWN.

The entire upshot of demanding "lawful money" is this: you will not actually "get" lawful money, it will be "owed" to you in the exact amount you demanded redeemed.

That means the US treasury OWES me the amount of "lawful money" I demanded over the past 6 years. If you do not demand lawful money redemption per 12 USC 411, you have debtors rights, no matter what legal vehicle you move into commerce with (trusts, corporations, LLC, et al) YOU remain the DEBTOR/PEON.

You will not be recognized as a living man or woman with Unalienable rights, but a person with IN-a-lein-able rights.

Now take education on trusts and contracts and add that to demanded redemption for lawful money per 12 USC 411 and you have a truly powerful force of law, not just the color of law.
Jknoph

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08/16/2013 02:20 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
The trust thing may play some role in this but when you opt out of private money the trust collapses.

Read: [link to savingtosuitorsclub.net]
Anonymous Coward
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08/16/2013 02:24 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Team law does not even know the difference between the "law of the land" and the "law of the sea".

Great foundation for a group getting PAID to teach people about "the" law.

Thinking you are on the land while being lost at SEA is dangerous, very dangerous.

What's next? Adventures in legal land? Sovereign Citizen propaganda? Turner/Montana freeman fake bond creation and all that crap?

Do not assume they had it all right, but do not assume they had everything wrong either. Discernment is needed, do your own homework.
Anonymous Coward
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08/16/2013 02:32 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
All teamlaw teammates are debtors to the FEDERAL RESERVE they OWE, they do not OWN.
 Quoting:


Another *spectacular* misconception. If you hold a 10 dollar FRN, you don't owe the Federal Reserve 10 dollars. The obligation to back the currency is on the Federal Reserve. Not on you.

You don't even understand how debt works. The holder of the debt isn't the person who pays. They're the person who GETS paid.

Like most of your silly argument, you've got it backwards. You simply don't have a clue what you're talking about.


The entire upshot of demanding "lawful money" is this: you will not actually "get" lawful money, it will be "owed" to you in the exact amount you demanded redeemed.
 Quoting:


Says who? Again, you're literally making this up as you go along. No law says this, no court recognizes it. Nor is there a single document from any government agency on that website you're shilling that acknowledges or even *mentions* any such debt.

Its just you saying it must be so.

If you demand redemption of FRNs.....you get FRNs. Exactly as Mobley Milam demonstrated elegantly 40 years ago when he demanded redemption of his FRNs under Title 12 USC 411.

That means the US treasury OWES me the amount of "lawful money" I demanded over the past 6 years. If you do not demand lawful money redemption per 12 USC 411, you have debtors rights, no matter what legal vehicle you move into commerce with (trusts, corporations, LLC, et al) YOU remain the DEBTOR/PEON.
 Quoting:


All blithering nonsense. The treasury neither has such a debt nor acknowledges it. No court nor law recognizes that debt. Its entirely inside your head.

And your imagination doesn't obligate anyone to do anything.

Show us any law or court ruling that says if you demand lawful money, you're exempt from taxes.

You can't. Its just you...citing yourself. Your imagination isn't the law.
Anonymous Coward
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08/16/2013 02:33 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
The trust thing may play some role in this but when you opt out of private money the trust collapses.

Read: [link to savingtosuitorsclub.net]
 Quoting: Jknoph


Trust always has a part. "IN GOD WE" is a TRUST.

The name of the trust is "IN GOD WE" TRUST.

It is always in "CAPITOL" letters for a legal reason. It may not have started out as an actual trust, but it became one in 1933, I believe (THE NEW DEAL).

Thanks for the link!!

Who do we trust and which GOD are they addressing???devil6
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
The trust thing may play some role in this but when you opt out of private money the trust collapses.

Read: [link to savingtosuitorsclub.net]
 Quoting: Jknoph


Says who? Again, your entire legal argument is based on us accepting whatever you imagine as the law.

Show us any law or any court ruling that says that demanding lawful money makes you immune to taxation?

There is none. No law says this. No court has ever recognized it. The 'debt' that your ilk insists the treasury owes you isn't acknowledged by the treasury or recognized by any court.

Its just you citing you....insisting it must be so because you *say* it is.

And from this, you somehow imagine that you don't have to pay taxes. You are not a legal authority. Your opinion has no legal weight. Nor are any courts, agencies, or organizations bound to whatever you choose to make up.

Get used to the idea.
Anonymous Coward
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08/16/2013 02:39 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
The trust thing may play some role in this but when you opt out of private money the trust collapses.

Read: [link to savingtosuitorsclub.net]
 Quoting: Jknoph


Trust always has a part. "IN GOD WE" is a TRUST.

The name of the trust is "IN GOD WE" TRUST.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40017194


Again, according to who? Show me any court, law, or agency that recognizes the 'IN GOD WE" TRUST that you claim has something to do with the US government.

Don't tell me. SHOW me.


It is always in "CAPITOL" letters for a legal reason.
 Quoting:


Says who? Again, that you imagine 'capital letters' have some legal relevance doesn't actually make it so. If you're going to make a legal argument, you're going to have to back it up with evidence.

And you citing you isn't it.

Is that really all there is to these tax cons? Just a bunch of con men on the internet insisting that *they* get to decide what any legal term means, that *they* get to decide what legal jurisdiction is.

Um, you don't.

What else have you got?
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
So when I get a "bill" from the electric company, I do not owe them anything?

I will tell them the dumbass shill on GLP said so.

Idiot.
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08/16/2013 02:45 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
[link to www.supremelaw.org]
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08/16/2013 02:48 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
The trust thing may play some role in this but when you opt out of private money the trust collapses.

Read: [link to savingtosuitorsclub.net]
 Quoting: Jknoph


Says who? Again, your entire legal argument is based on us accepting whatever you imagine as the law.

Show us any law or any court ruling that says that demanding lawful money makes you immune to taxation?

There is none. No law says this. No court has ever recognized it. The 'debt' that your ilk insists the treasury owes you isn't acknowledged by the treasury or recognized by any court.

Its just you citing you....insisting it must be so because you *say* it is.

And from this, you somehow imagine that you don't have to pay taxes. You are not a legal authority. Your opinion has no legal weight. Nor are any courts, agencies, or organizations bound to whatever you choose to make up.

Get used to the idea.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43637591


Get bent, you fuck. You are not any authority either, I am sick of reading your same shit over and over, 12 USC is standing law and I posted the case that spelled out US notes were NOT taxable, which you spun with your fucking lies to say it did not spell that out.

SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY!
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08/16/2013 02:52 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
[link to thelawdictionary.org]

Tell me again how all CAPITOL SPELLING makes no difference legally you ignorant FED SHILL?

The stupidity and ignorance of your assertions is staggering.

Can you please shut the hell up?
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08/16/2013 02:59 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40017194


Several problems with that reasoning. The courts have already recognized that Congress has the authority under the constitution to create paper money. And the courts have already recognized that it is that power being excercised in the issuances of FRNs.

Appellant's contentions, in our view, were put at rest close to a century ago in Juilliard v. Greenman, 110 U.S. 421, 448, 4 S.Ct. 122, 130, 28 L.Ed. 204 (1884), in which it was said:
7
" . . . Under the power to borrow money on the credit of the United States, and to issue circulating notes for the money borrowed, its power to define the quality and force of those notes as currency is as broad as the like power over a metallic currency under the power to coin money and to regulate the value thereof. Under the two powers, taken together, Congress is authorized to establish a national currency, either in coin or in paper, and to make that currency lawful money for all purposes, as regards the national government or private individuals. . . . " (Emphasis supplied.)

8The power so precisely described in Juilliard has been delegated to the Federal Reserve System under the provisions of 12 U.S.C. § 411. Appellant's challenge to the validity of this legislation is meritless. Cf.31 U.S.C. § 392.

 Quoting: Milam V. the US


Which essentially guts the entire 'unconstitutional currency' argument. I believe 'meritless' should about cover it.

Do you have any other links you've never read nor fact check to offer us?
Anonymous Coward
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08/16/2013 03:06 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
The trust thing may play some role in this but when you opt out of private money the trust collapses.

Read: [link to savingtosuitorsclub.net]
 Quoting: Jknoph


Says who? Again, your entire legal argument is based on us accepting whatever you imagine as the law.

Show us any law or any court ruling that says that demanding lawful money makes you immune to taxation?

There is none. No law says this. No court has ever recognized it. The 'debt' that your ilk insists the treasury owes you isn't acknowledged by the treasury or recognized by any court.

Its just you citing you....insisting it must be so because you *say* it is.

And from this, you somehow imagine that you don't have to pay taxes. You are not a legal authority. Your opinion has no legal weight. Nor are any courts, agencies, or organizations bound to whatever you choose to make up.

Get used to the idea.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43637591


Get bent, you fuck. You are not any authority either, I am sick of reading your same shit over and over, 12 USC is standing law and I posted the case that spelled out US notes were NOT taxable, which you spun with your fucking lies to say it did not spell that out.

SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40017194


Just show me any law or any court ruling that says that if you demand lawful money you don't have to pay taxes.

And I'll go 'poof'. But you can't. Because the law doesn't recognize your claims as valid. Nor does any court. With the courts explicitly *contradicting* your assumptions.

Title 12 USC 411 is standing law. But as you know....the courts already recognize FRNs as lawful money. And when you demand lawful money under Title 12 USC 411....you get FRNs.

Utterly obliterating your claims.

And backing your claims that demanding lawful money makes you immune to taxation? You have exactly jackshyte. Its been nearly 100 pages, and not one of you 'Redeemer' folks have ever managed to back your tax con with anything.

Its just you...citing you.
Anonymous Coward
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08/16/2013 03:09 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Show me where I posted jack shit about "constitutional currency" you take ass bitch liar.

If YOU had anything, I and many others would be I court with the IRS, but here you are, telling me my opinion means nothing but to date the IRS agrees with me.

So what the fuck else do YOU got, fucker?
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08/16/2013 03:10 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
[link to thelawdictionary.org]

Tell me again how all CAPITOL SPELLING makes no difference legally you ignorant FED SHILL?

The stupidity and ignorance of your assertions is staggering.

Can you please shut the hell up?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40017194


Um, buddy....we're not Romans. And Latin doesn't have a lower case.

Once again, you've just imagined nonsense as the law. And then laughably concluded that the courts and government are bound to whatever you imagine.

Um, no. They're not.

What else have you got? Don't tell me....more links back to your website? What, ad revenue down? You miss your marketing projections this quarter? Or are the legal bills just starting to stack up...so you need new meat for tax con grinder?

Sorry, Shill....but I had you pegged *days* ago.
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08/16/2013 03:13 PM
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[link to thelawdictionary.org]

Tell me again how all CAPITOL SPELLING makes no difference legally you ignorant FED SHILL?

The stupidity and ignorance of your assertions is staggering.

Can you please shut the hell up?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40017194


Um, buddy....we're not Romans. And Latin doesn't have a lower case.

Once again, you've just imagined nonsense as the law. And then laughably concluded that the courts and government are bound to whatever you imagine.

Um, no. They're not.

What else have you got? Don't tell me....more links back to your website? What, ad revenue down? You miss your marketing projections this quarter? Or are the legal bills just starting to stack up...so you need new meat for tax con grinder?

Sorry, Shill....but I had you pegged *days* ago.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43637591

Uh, dumbfuck, where did "law" come from?

You think the law just appeared one day when the US was founded?

Thank you again for showing how utterly fucking ignorant you are about law.

Fucking idiot.