CHRISTIANITY IS PART OF THE PROBLEM......

Right.

Because we got a shiny, brand new God with the NT.

If you read the OT, you're getting to know the old God, because it's not like God is the same forever and ever.

This is the exact convenience that shows the glaring problem with christianity. Throw away everything "god" did before the NT... don't read the OT, because that was really god, but wasn't really god.

It's a brand new god, so everything it did before it murdered jesus doesn't count. He had his fingers crossed behind his back, see.

This has got to be my last post or I'll be late.
The old is Jewish the new is Christian. TWO religions treated differently. Do you treat both your kids(pets or what ever you have) the same?

Thanks for the debate. I have to run. Be back tonight.

Truth is it doesn't matter what the bible says, people see what they want when they read and block out the stuff they know is BS. Which really isn't that bad, if believing in Jesus gets people to believe god is loving I'm all for it, if they go the westboro baptist route they might as well be Islamic hijackers.

I am a Christian because I choose to be.
What any of you haters choose to be is none of my business.
But does what I believe give you the right to hate me?
I don't really care...

All religions and belief systems that do not tie into reality are 99.9% of the problem.

You think Kent Hovind has fucking answers?

Wow. You must not read much else other than religious text.

So your perfect god has to change?

wow, talk about inconsistent.

your a disease and jesus is the cure bitch.

Because he's jealous, of course.

~Zeus

Sadly MANY are of this type. Particularly the more fundamental, who believe also this planet was created by some sort of magic wand of God a few thousand years ago.

As a Christian, with a capital C, corporate Christian, are you also supporting Israel?????? And those Khazars who placed the word "jew" into the bible fairly recently? Because if you are, you are being led by dark thugs. There were NO JEWS 2000 years ago. yet it's in that bible, so when did it get put in that bible, if the Khazars only created the Word JEW in the 1700's?

wow....... i never realized how fucking thick and brainwashed people are on this website. It seems as if no one on team Christ even took into consideration what Ive said i give up on this thread until somebody decides to actually discuss the topic that is at hand until that time. good bye

Sandi-T...

I love you.

I am not a christian. I do not believe that most people who choose not to embrace the Creator are going to be tortured
and suffer for eternity. Though, I do believe that there are some people who choose to align themselves with dark spiritual forces
that will suffer their same ultimate fate. That being the abyss, a place of utter darkness and nothing but their awareness.

I also believe and trust that the Creator is YHWH/Yahweh/Yahuwah and that His plan included coming as the Messiah Yahshua.

Freewill, choice and dark powers (fallen mighty ones) have really thrown a monkey wrench (death and destruction) into the past 6k years of recorded history. Much evil has been done in His name that He had nothing to do with. Yet there are times and situations where He did interact on the behalf of His people where He brought death and destruction to His/their enemies. Some things are beyond our present comprehension. I have a hard time understanding how a loving Creator could allow so much pain, suffering and death. I think the answer is that He has temporarily allowed the fallen ones dominion over this world. That coupled with peoples freewill and choice results in much evil.

We are all born human with a body and a mind (consciousness/soul) not a spirit. We can choose our whole lives never to be born spiritually. If that is the case, when we die we return our matter to the dust and we're done. Freewill and choice can cause us to be born a second time in spirit. If we align ourselves with His Life we can be born from above, covered by His Spirit and brought into His Family. If we align ourselves with fallen spirits we can be born and tied to their powers and fate.

You are obviously a very intelligent person. I would agree that you probably have studied scripture longer and more thoroughly then I have. I'm not saying that you have always done this but I've noticed something. You seem to be searching the scriptures now to prove it a lie and "cherry pick" out sections and verses to back up your claim that the God of the scriptures is some non-existent monster. It's only selfish, greedy evil bastards that made the whole thing up because they want to control and subjugate the masses. I would disagree and put it another way... the selfish, greedy evil bastards have commandeered the scriptures and the truth and formed religions to control and subjugate the masses.

This is not an attack and I am not looking to argue with you but...
I have read many of your posts and also your blog. You don't claim to be atheist and you call the God of the scriptures a lie and a monster. You seem to believe in a universal creator who is all loving and full of only good things and peace. You share some experiences where this god has directly interacted in your life.
If I use your logic and arguments I could say... how and why does that monster god you believe in, who is all loving and only wants peace and good things for all, allow all the pain, suffering and death in this world and not do anything to stop it? He must be one sick bastard monster god to just sit back and do nothing. Why would he have ever created the universe and this world knowing all the nasty shit that would happen to it and all the lives on it?

that was me sorry wasnt logged....

Then you talked to a retard.... and if you can't see the conspiracy in religion vs Truth then maybe you should post on ATS.

Yeah, there is a conspiracy to turn people against religion while introducing a new kind of belief system which might support a new kind of atrocity convincingly.

That being said, I thought some of those who despise the Bible might be interested in this:

[link to skepticsannotatedbible.com]

and this:

These are my emails which were why I looked into researching verses of the Bible recently.

____

The emails I mentioned wanting to share with you were related to some communication I was having in GLP through private messages. I hope nobody minds my sharing these messages, as I think they might have some interesting information! I will only show my side of the communications:

Hello! I'd really like to know any details about what we were discussing earlier! Thank you so much! I'm also curious about the things you've written under your posters and the name Shamar! So really, I'd like to know everything about you as well as what you've come to know about other things, including demons.

I would love to see your entire study on demons! What kind of email do you use? Like gmail, or hotmail, or yahoo? Do you have any messenger chat programs? I have lots of emails so I was wondering what kind you had if it made it easier to send through that kind of email. I have court.comp at live dot com and courtesy.compliments at gmail dot com and court.comp at yahoo dot com . What is your email? the dot in the center of the words court and comp is a period.

Also do you have some more information about the evidence specifically related to the demon encounter in your own life? I was interested in how you "knew" for sure (and I'm not denying that a demon was involved, I just wanted to know all the things that indicated this to you).

Also do you have some more information about the evidence specifically related to the demon encounter in your own life? I was interested in how you "knew" for sure (and I'm not denying that a demon was involved, I just wanted to know all the things that indicated this to you).

I go into a lot of beliefs, and even things you might find radical in some ways. I made an interesting aquaintance there who seems to have been or is quite deep in Luciferianism, but seems to actually be a really nice guy, and not quite as evil as fanatic luciferians and gnostics who I can't stand. In that thread I talk about monotheism in a variety of world religions throughout history. I consider myself an extremely strict monotheist, and that being the core behind all my beliefs, which also seems to allow me to consider myself an essential member of any and all monotheistic religions since there is only one true and ultimate God who has all the power, knowledge, wisdom, and mercy, is infinite, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, and whatever other good omnis there might be.

This God is mentioned in the core philosophy behind many religions, even those outside the "Abrahamic" ones. For example, this God exists in ancient Vedic hinduism, ancient Han chinese religion, some ancient native american beliefs, and even in things as radical as some ancient egyptian understandings even though they seem to be polytheistic in modern understanding. I believe the confusion occurs when people take the titles of the one God and then create symbolic depictions for them which are later confused as different unique entities in their own right. That is like how God is the God of the mountains, God of the seas, God of the sky, God of the sun, God of the moon, God of everything, God who is hidden, God who is manifest and apparent, etc.

These may have all been some of the many titles of the one God for example. But someone eventually comes along and starts making depictions of each to try to explain it through humanized symbolism to lay people and the general public and that is how idols might start popping up. This happening can be traced in India too, even today many hindus and Brahman priests consider hindu purely monotheistic (and the ancient hindu scriptures make it clear that it was intended to be strictly monotheistic) but then they explain the idols as "depictions of the attributes of God". God warned people, even hindus in their own scriptures, not to make idols specifically for this reason, that people start claiming partners to God when God is the only God.

So, many egyptians used to believe, even to the point of monotheism, in Amun Ra for example. By todays understanding, which is probably not very accurate to how it was understood by the ancient egyptian priesthoods, Amun and Ra might be seen as distinct entities that were combined later. But actually, Amun means hidden, and Ra seems to mean manifest. God is the hidden yet manifest (apparent) and those were just two names for God. If someone calls God the king, and someone calls God the first, and someone calls God the last, that doesn't mean they are distinct entities, but are just qualities of the one ultimate God who is singular and infinite. But if depictions were made to represent each of those qualities through symbolism, it might be easily confused as depictions of various entities, even if that was not the intention of the depictions originally but just a means of explanation.

So in the thread, you'll see that I support a vast array of religions and support them in a monotheistic sense.

I've tried to warn people about luciferians on GLP, but many of them may not even realize how they are being tricked by a malevolent being in the same fashion that he tricked people throughout history. The main way to identify a luciferian or one influenced by luciferian philosophies is anyone who claims they themselves are a God or can be a God. That has been the simple trick of Satan throughout the ages. I'm very interested in demon, as I believe they belong to race of beings that have existed on Earth alongside the human race throughout history but that they are not made of the same material as us (mud/clay) but are rather made out of something different (plasma/which is ionized gas/examples of plasmas in nature are lightning and flame).

I believe people give too much "power" to things besides God, and even themselves, that even some devout seeming Christians might come to believe, through self deception or otherwise, that they have some power or that their effort or "energy" can be a form of power even if they don't call it that.

I'm extremely strict in always saying that only God has all the power, and to never claim, believe, or state that anyone or anything other than the one all mighty, ever present God on whom everything depends in order to exist has any "real" power.

So I think that people give way too much to the idea that they themselves have power or that something other than God has power, for example demons.

Some people even go so far as to say things as drastic and potentially blasphemous as Satan having great power, when in reality he doesn't have any power at all, is dependant on God like everything else, is not the epitomy of all evil or the opposite of God, but is just an entity like any being and is a liar like any liar. His motivation for lying though seems to be racist in nature and due to a deep hate for the human race who he has vowed himself to be the enemy of since he probably feels his race is more worthy or "better" and "higher" to the human race, that is probably how his fear and arrogance led him to fall far away from the right path, just like it might for any human being or creature of his race.

God created absolutely everything, God can do whatever God wants, God is unstoppable, God can decide what is what and who is who and who recieves best, and to God belongs all glory, praise, and power.

So basically to restate: My belief system is strict monotheism towards the absolutely all powerful God of which there is only one and can be no other.

I worship this God, or hope to anyway, and try to also combat "evil" or "ignorance" through being kind and polite, helping people, and making it very clear through my own behavior how distinct evilness, ignorance, and hate is from goodness and right conduct. I also hope to bring to awareness some of the things that are pervasive in society that many may not have noticed and may be related ultimately to the agendas of those who follow Satan, potentially in a literal sense.

But they aren't really a concern either, I don't think they can harm anyone, God is always in control of everything, but I have a natural aversion to evilness that might motivate some of my actions. I don't think it was ever requested of us to love evilness though, but rather to love God, which seems kind of automatic, while a repulsion to evil seems to come naturally with that. By evil, I mean things that God dislikes, or are insulting lies. I've found a deep rejection towards Gnosticism and groups influenced by gnostic ideas which are generally Luciferian in nature. I mean I literally feel like throwing up when their evilness becomes apparent, sometimes even before. This might be similar to the senses you have about some things.

In a larger sense though, I don't believe there is any such thing as "good" and "evil" other than what God decides or says is "good" and "evil" and that these are whatever God says they are and don't exist independently as some kind of universal principle outside of God's decisions about them.

I also don't believe Satan is the ultimate epitomy of evil or the opposite of God in some kind of dualistic belief system with two powerful beings in a constant battle. God is all powerful, nothing can combat God, and Satan isn't even trying the impossible and trying to lead humans astray and into the terrible effort of being at war with God so that God will punish them and destroy them along with Satan. Satan seems to want to prove that humans are bad or worse than his own race of beings and himself, but he only increases his own eventual punishment in this pursuit really. Besides Satan, there are numerous human and non human "satans" or enemies with bad intentions whose main tool seems to be just lying, but they themselves may be fooled by their own arrogance and ignorance, and the ultimate cause behind anything and everything is always God the creator of all events and eventualities.

So in truth, God is the creator, maintainer, and destroyer, the one with all the power. Whatever God wants is. But I think that we can still pray, and that God is always present and aware and ready to respond to prayers and help people who ask, and even help people who don't ask, is always helping and doing things, and only some if any are grateful. So I think it is always important to be patient, grateful to God, to worship God, and to seek God's favor and also ask for things from God that are good for ourselves and our families and whatever because in truth only God can make anything happen.

I also believe that we should prepare for the afterlife by doing good things so that we don't get in trouble or punished later.

I believe religion has to be an active pursuit, and the best religion, and only true religion is pure devotion to God, knowing that God has all the power, doing good deeds to be judged well by God, and to pray to God for forgiveness and whatever else we want.

The supposed "power" of any bad seeming people is really just their own propaganda and self delusion. They have no power, they just lie and hope it comes true. It is easy to "fight" them by just letting them defeat themselves while retaining our own goodness and right conduct, gentleness and kindness which is like light that shines on darkness to expose just how ugly evilness is.

Yes I believe in Yehoshua ha Massiach, also known by some as Jesus the Messiah, Jesus Christ, Isa al massih. I also think it isn't horrible if people call Yehoshua Jesus or Isa and that what matters is they are speaking of the same person and consider him the messiah which means annointed.

I hope you like all that stuff I wrote, and I hope you also totally agree with it!

Yes! I want the document on demons! I'm very interested in looking into your discoveries! I hope that while reading that document you might take notes on what points you disagreed with! The main point of it was that God is all powerful, there is only one God, doesn't matter what name you call God so long as you do the right things and worship the one God whose qualities are always the same and ultimate. I thought that might be difficult to disagree with, so I'm looking forward to finding out what mistake I might have made in my statement so I can be more careful next time!

I believe that the dieties qualities are what are important and that the name is arbitrary. In aramaic, which was purported to be the language used by Jesus, the word for God is "Ellah", in the sister language of Arabic, it is Allah for example. But one can say insulting things about any name, and a name is just an identifier and place holder really and can't encompass a being, but can refer to a definition. In the case of of God, I think the definition is what matters, that the definition should be ultimate in every way, that anything that is contained in a form or image is not ultimate. So if people mean by X the ultimate God who is the only one, then that is the same God as G if they are defined in the exact same way, but it wouldn't be the same as L if L is not defined as ultimate or having major differences in the definition.

You included "Allah" alongside "Buddha" and "Krishna". Allah is the Arabic word for God that is related to the word Ellah that was supposedly used by the Aramaic speaking Jesus. Yah is also an Egyptian moon God, which is another reason why I don't think words or sounds are as important as definitions. The definition as defined in the Qur'an of Allah is that Allah (God) is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and all the Biblical prophets. It is pretty clear about that.

I think that the same message of one God was given to all people of all civilizations throughout history and then on their own people corrupted it or confused themselves or were confused by suggestions by Satan or other minions both human and not.

I agree that angels and demons are not the same thing and that demons are spirits roaming the Earth. But I believe they actually are made of a substance called plasma, and appear to be a fine disperse mist with a kind of "static" looking "rain" inside but its not rain, just speeding particles bouncing around because plasma is ionized gas. In any case, I believe they actually feed on gasses and vapors, such as methane, and thats why are often seen by many around swamps and in forests and other places that release methane gasses and have decay. Satan is of this race of beings as well, and they have been known throughout history by different names but again with the same attributes, qualities, and clues, so the definition is what counts rather than the words used in different languages.

You said:

"Don’t forget that that the *god* of this world presently is ha satan. And it is WAR that we are in the midst of …. Many things are happening in the heavenlies all around us between the good forces and the evil ones.

It is true that ha satan has limited power due to the omnipotence of the Most High. However ~ since is currently rules this earth, unless an individual repents and gives their lives to Yehoshua to be redeemed and ruled by, they give legal rights to ha satan. Satan’s goal is to keep as many humans as possible from being redeemed."

Thats a cool idea, but I believe it is a terrible blasphemy to say or think that Satan or anything other than God could be the God of any world in a true sense. In a metaphorical sense, sure, one can say Satan has alot of power or is thought by many to be some great power.

I liked the idea about Satan having more influence on those who do not repent, and it may be true in many ways, but I don't think Satan has any rights really so much as the ability to suggest things to people, and perhaps just certain people who work to create campaigns that mislead people. For example, as much power as a human individual might have in suggesting things to another person. The only difference from Satan and humans I believe is that his "body" looks more like the aurora borealis because of being made out of plasma (lightning is also a form of plasma, and so is flame).

He very well could be in the form of an aurora looking serpent type thing, most of the race of plasma beings when uncompressed seem to appear to be misty and snake like, like vertical snakes or how a slow motion candle flame might look. When they compress they can appear as a ball of light, what many people call "orbs", they can move very fast, especially in that form, but I only recently kind of realized that Satan probably isn't flying around super fast and talking to everyone, but rather due to his limited form and nature thinks of projects and sets certain of his agents to inspire these projects and campaigns in people.

You said:

Well, we have a bit of a disagreement here then. But I will say you raise some interesting points… in other words, I think there is more to the picture than most have an understanding of.

Scripture tells us that evil did come from YHVH. It’s just not the way people perceive it however. I am doing a study on the Tree of Life, it’s very complex. But it does present a way to comprehend how evil did come about."

I'm sorry, but where do we disagree? I believe God created everything and then can decide whatever God thinks or says is "Good" and "Evil". I don't believe anything can happen without God's design first. God creates the basis, the basics, the possibilities, and even the results. I mean God creates everything, without God nothing can happen or would happen. How could we disagree?

You said:

"I believe you are on the right track, absolutely. I prefer not to use the word “religion” though because it has such awful connotations. But certainly, as far as our walk with YHVH, and living out our faith, and working out our salvation with trembling and fear ~ you seem to have it nailed. Evil and ugly, be it what one would term Satanism or Luciferionism… totally exists and it is real. Have you ever done a study of alchemy? The scriptures are full of it. Alchemy was used and then abused, and turned into witchcraft and sorcery. But don’t be fooled ~ there is power there. YHVH’s power is greater, true, but if one is not under authority of the Most High, he will be used by the enemy."

I'm so glad you believe that I may be on the right track! I hope so too! I hope we agree with most, if not all things that keep us close to God and in adoration of his ultimate power and greatness.

I don't have too much trouble with the word "religion" and I think we can work to win back this word from the clutches of non religion, because I believe that there is really only one religion and that is the religion of God the only, all powerful, ultimate, there is no other.

I'd like to quickly mention that YHVH is actually supposed to be a placeholder for the deliberately hidden name of God, that was thought by the Jews and many to be so special and sacred that no one was worthy to utter it, so they hid it away so that nobody could disrespect God. If God does have a name, it might be true that it would not be exposed because of its holiness and sacredness. But it seems God has placeholders and titles instead of sound combinations that represent a name that has no meaning. So again, we rely back on our definitions.

If someone says YHVH is the one and only God with all the power and is ultimate and all those omnis ive mentioned before then they are talking about our God, but if someone says YHVH is a planet or something, they are not talking about our God who is only and always the ultimate. YHVH are letters, and sounds, and are arbitrary in of themselves, only the definitions matter, words without definitions don't have any meaning.

I believe Satanism and Luciferianism is real and I've made threads to expose it and the plot of Satan and how to identify his plots easily. Basically his plots always involve people blaspheming God by claiming they themselves are Gods or trying to accomplish that in some way. In a perverse irony, saying everyone is God is like saying there is no true God, and saying that there is no God is like saying everyone is a God.

But nobody can be a God other than God, and God is the ultimate, there can be no other. God can not be contained in a form, but all forms are encompassed and controlled and supported by only God the all powerful.

Now about the magic, I made an interesting post somewhere about that. I've studied it, and I believe I've understood how it operates. I wish I could find that post for you, you might enjoy it.

I don't believe in any "good" or "bad" magic, I believe the "power" of magic is actually supported by God, but isn't really "power" at all so much as delusion and self delusion that distances a person from "The Truth" which is another title of God.

Wow! I was writing you a really long message. There are just so many examples, that it literally caused my browser to overload and shut! Luckily I have a version of the message saved!

The Qur'an makes it extremely clear that the God being spoken about in the Qur'an is the very same God of Abraham, and that Islam which means surrender to God was the religion of Abraham. The whole Qur'an is about all the biblical stories and prophets, and depicts them in what I feel is the best most pleasant light as very gentle and sincere characters.

Allah is the arabic word for God. Arabic is a language that is related to Aramaic which was supposed to be the language spoken by Jesus. The term for God in Aramaic is Ellah or even pronounced Allah, that is because they are both related languages.

Islam is the only other religion that states clearly Jesus was the Messiah, the son of Mary who was a virgin. Yet there are forces that probably wish for Muslims and Christians to be far apart from each other. Meanwhile many who claim to be Jews despite Jesus to the point of writing terrible blasphemies in the Talmud even. Yet many Christians feel closer to Jewish people who strongly reject Jesus in many cases, than they do to the Muslim people.

Many things that are in Islam are depicted in the New Testament, even the way Jesus greeted people with "peace be with you" is the way that all muslims typically greet people and each other.

If you have an aversion to the word Allah, then you might feel averse to the word God as well. To say Allah is not God is the same as saying God is not God because Allah is the arabic word for God. It is just a different language than english, yet it is a language very close to the one supposedly spoken by Jesus and those around him, and the word Allah and Ellah was probably used regularly as the word for God.

Also, since it is the arabic word for God, the arabic and aramaic translations of the Bible use the word as well. So please understand, it is just a word, but also is strictly associated with the ultimate and only God who is also the God of Abraham, there is no other God, there is only God.

Now to address your other comment about God as depicted or speaking in the Qur'an, there was no order to simply "kill infidels" baselessly.

Muslims are not allowed to kill anyone at all let alone raise their hands in attack or to hit someone. Killing is considered a terrible thing to do. Muslims are also not allowed to start wars. The Qur'an does give room for self defense though and participating in wars if they are declared and pursued by an opposing party of non believers. Those were the circumstances clearly depicted and related to the events of war in the Qur'an and God is very clear about not transgressing these boundaries and also states to seek reconcilliation as fast as possible, to accept peace treaties and the end of war right away and not transgressing or persisting. War is only allowed while it is actively declared and pursued by an enemy. The circumstances in the Qur'an were related to major oppression that was happening.

War was declared on those who believed in only God alone, and people were being taken from their homes and thrown out and killed. The Qur'an made it clear that in such circumstances, when open war is declared and pursued, you can fight back and defend yourself, and to fight until oppression is stopped and peace is declared. These are the most reasonable terms for human beings, and very merciful. I think it might have been unreasonable if God had expected people to just let others kill them and their families without permission to defend ourselves and our families.

Furthermore, it would be unreasonable if God demanded civillian murders, or murdering people's wives or children, or mistreating prisoners of war. But instead, the Qur'an makes it clear that no one is to harm any non combatants only those who are fighting and attempting to literally kill you and your families in a state of war, and you can't even attack pre emptively in Islam, and aren't allowed to be suspicious of people in a time of declared peace. As for the prisoners of War, the Qur'an suggests treating them well, and even teaching them how to read and helping them as much as possible.

Peace treaties are not allowed to be broken by Muslims either, and the terms are to be accepted immediately, especially halts on all violence.

There is no religious scripture that is so reasonable related to war and self defense as the Qur'an.

The Qur'an does not allow muslims to just go out and randomly kill "infidel" non comabatants. Infidel is also a word that seems to appear in the Bible, while the term most often used in the Qur'an is kaffir which is translated as disbeliever.

During all other times besides war time, a muslim is expected never to harm anyone, to be gentle and careful in speech and very polite. A muslim has the human right to defend themselves and their family from direct attacks, both legally and physically if being harmed physically. A muslim is also allowed to defend themselves in a state of declared war and to participate in war if it is declared on them and pursued by the aggressive party. Permission is given in a time of war to use strategy as well in order to better defend and attack in order to win battles.

The Qur'an, even in the case of a family member being murdered, suggests that forgiveness is always better than retribution and that one should not transgress is revenge but only at most can seek a balanced reprisal, such as monetary compensation, or a court case with possible death penalty for the one who murdered someone if the case is proven by confirmation of witnesses and other legal proofs. This gives room for those who feel they might be satisfied by the death of a murderer, but the Qur'an repeatedly suggests to forgive, that forgiveness is better than reprisals, and that if we were in a similar position we would hope for forgiveness too, and how we should be forgiving, just as we would want the forgiveness of God.

Meanwhile, somehow you may have gotten the impression to make a statement that implies God, the God of Abraham, the God in the Bible doesn't order the killing of "infidels".

You may need to examine the Bible a little more closely in that case, since some of the most unreasonable seeming violent genocides are supposedly ordered throughout the Bible by the very same God. I don't accept that God ever orders terrible Genocides though, and the Qur'an shows me terms that I find are reasonable enough to believe that they are the kind that God would probably have, rather than demands on people to kill every single man woman child and animal, as things in the Bible suggest God said.

Here are some examples from the Bible:

1 Samuel 15:2
Thus saith the LORD of hosts ... 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

15:8 And he took Agag the king of the Amalekites alive, and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword.
15:9 But Saul and the people spared Agag, and the best of the sheep, and of the oxen, and of the fatlings, and the lambs, and all that was good, and would not utterly destroy them: but every thing that was vile and refuse, that they destroyed utterly.

15:10 Then came the word of the LORD unto Samuel, saying,

15:11 It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the LORD all night.

15:18 And the LORD sent thee on a journey, and said, Go and utterly destroy the sinners the Amalekites, and fight against them until they be consumed.

15:19 Wherefore then didst thou not obey the voice of the LORD, but didst fly upon the spoil, and didst evil in the sight of the LORD?

15:32 Then said Samuel, Bring ye hither to me Agag the king of the Amalekites. And Agag came unto him delicately. And Agag said, Surely the bitterness of death is past.

15:33 And Samuel said, As the sword hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless among women. And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the LORD in Gilgal.

29:5 Is not this David, of whom they sang one to another in dances, saying, Saul slew his thousands, and David his ten thousands?

21:11 And the servants of Achish said unto him, Is not this David the king of the land? did they not sing one to another of him in dances, saying, Saul hath slain his thousands, and David his ten thousands?



1 Samuel 6:19 And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.



Some interesting history related to the word "infidel":

The term infidel was used by Christians to describe non-Christians or those perceived as the enemies of Christianity, especially Muslims.

Christians have historically referred to people outside their religious group as infidels,[6] signifying a distinction between somebody who for whatever reason is ignorant of the Christian message and somebody who has actively rejected the promise of salvation in the life and teaching of Jesus. It only became a well established notion in English sometime in the early sixteenth century, when Jews or “Mohammedans,” were described as active opponents to Christianity, and as such infidel was seen as term of contempt.

The Arabic word kafir (literally the one who "covers", usually translated as "disbeliever")

In the Islamic doctrinal sense, the term refers to a person who does not recognize the one God (Allah) - atheists and polytheists - and not to religions such as Christianity, Judaism - who are seen as "People of the Book (Ahl-e-kitab)".[10][14][15]

Muslim scholars discourage its use due to the Quran's command to use kind words.[17] It is even a punishable offense to use this term against a Jew or a Christian, under Islamic law.[16]

Judaism has a notion of pagan gentiles who are called acum (an acronym of Ovdei Cohavim u-Mazzaloth or, literally, those who are “star-and-constellation worshippers,”) or idolaters. A Hebrew term, kofer, which is cognate with the Arabic kafir, is however applied only to apostate Jews.[4]

He (the Pope ) also held that he had an obligation to send missionaries to infidel lands, and that if they were prevented from entering or preaching, then the pope was justified in dispatching Christian forces accompanied with missionaries to invade those lands, as Innocent stated simply "If the infidels do not obey, they ought to be compelled by the secular arm and war may be declared upon them by the pope, and nobody else."[19] This was however not a reciprocal right and non-Christian missionaries such as those of Muslims could not be allowed to preach in Europe

A long line of Papal hierocratic canonists, most notably those who adhered to Alanus Anglicus's influential arguments of the Crusading-era, denied Infidel dominium, and asserted Rome's universal jurisdictional authority over the earth, and the right to authorize pagan conquests solely on the basis of non-belief because of their rejection of the Christian god.[20]



While looking for quotes I also found this interesting one from the Bible that seems to talk about blinding people again:

2:31 Behold, the days come, that I will cut off thine arm, and the arm of thy father's house, that there shall not be an old man in thine house.
2:32 And thou shalt see an enemy in my habitation, in all the wealth which God shall give Israel: and there shall not be an old man in thine house for ever.
2:33 And the man of thine, whom I shall not cut off from mine altar, shall be to consume thine eyes, and to grieve thine heart: and all the increase of thine house shall die in the flower of their age.

Also, I'd like to mention that unreasonable seeming things like punishing people's children for the crimes of others is not a policy of God in the Qur'an, there are no generational curses, and nobody bears the burden of sins they didn't themselves perform, and God is ever forgiving and merciful, quick to forgive and relent with mercy and gifts.

(In the version that got deleted, there were more examples, which I can provide which depict great acts of what might seem to be terrible injustice commanded by God in the Bible. In that sense the Qur'an is vastly different in its description of God. I had included also a mention of the difference in adultry laws in the Bible where one orders both people to be put to death, while the Qur'an suggests punishing the parties involved only if the crime can be proven, and then allowing both to marry if they wish to be together.

Furthermore its practically impossible to prove a case of adultry happened in Islam because of witness requirement and other things, and a lot of emphasis is put on testimonial truth so as to make avoiding trying to prove someone did something falsely or without sufficient proof very bad. The Qur'an is vastly reasonable in so many dimensions. That is not to say that I don't believe God can order anything he wants, such as the terrible pre emptive slaughter commanded in the Bible, but I have some hope that God didn't really order any such atrocities and slaughter of infidels as the Bible suggests God did. I can offer numerous examples from the Bible that are extremely clear.

I found it really shocking and hurtful even to accuse the God depicted in the Qur'an of baselessly ordering "kill the infidels" when it isn't what the Qur'an suggests at all, while on the other handle the Bible suggests it so many times that collecting the quotes and opening all the pages overloaded my computer! I can give you many more examples though than those that I provided. What hurt me was that anyone has convinced you somehow, if they have, that one is more unjust than the other when it seems the reverse.

I found the post! It seems to be written to a practitioner of Luciferianism so it is written in terms that they might be able to understand. I've made other posts about it as well, I'll find those for you too!

I may have mentioned it in some other posts. It may also be what I've been talking about all along! Not trusting in entities telling one to board a ship isn't part of it, that is different, the sorcerer has nothing to fear obviously but shouldn't be concerned with that emotion either even if he experiences it.

The ultimate key is a word that might be taken the wrong way: from etymonline for the word "Technically, delusion is a belief that, though false, has been surrendered to and accepted by the whole mind as a truth; illusion is an impression that, though false, is entertained provisionally on the recommendation of the senses or the imagination, but awaits full acceptance and may not influence action."

For training purposes: The first understanding of power is Be and it Is. The exercise is Belief and it is. This is Delusion, and the power of the sorcerer. Not to be taken as a negative thing, because it is these beliefs and changes in perception that allow one to create a visible reality and seem to change the very fabric of their life and all those around them. You may have lost touch with the old world, but you can choose whatever it is you believe and it will clearly manifest to the deluded sorcerer. There are no reprecussions and no laws, just pure control over your interpretations of things.

Everyone is mad in that sense, especially those who believe things and think they know things, and those who choose to believe things and choose to "know" things are the sorcerers. So delusion is the ultimate key to sorcery, and total power over your life and everything else including reality. If you can escape death, you may be able to continue in perpetual delusion, but it could be that reality will finally catch up, when the sustainer of all delusions and illusions and realities comes to set things straight.

That is kind of why it is the path of evil, it is going from the straight path of God and total powerlessness to wandering off the path to blindly explore in darkness and imagine where you are or what is around you, and believe it.

For example, imagine a straight line that may or may not be lit, and you set off on it and you just keep walking on it and hear the crunches of the path under your feet to some degree which might give you the illusion of solid ground on this path. Then you get frisky and step to one side slowly and feel that there is nothing there off the path. Then you decide to walk off, and imagine the rest, it is all black so you can't see anything, so then you start to imagine grass, and then you begin to imagine what it sounds like, and then you imagine what it looks like, and then you imagine other things, and finally come to believe they are very real, then you do whatever until perhaps one day when unexpectedly you hear that crunch again of the path you originally set off on, then your eyes are opened and you really see, but it may not be what you had been imagining all your life.

Here is another post about essential sorcery I made:

[There has been alot of discussion, but I keep watching this thread and responding, so please feel free to post your personal beliefs!]


This is a comment I left in another thread. Can someone comment? The main idea of the thread was that "words have magical powers to open up and create possibilities and realities".

This is what I said:

I believe there is something more freeing the idea that "words" are "magic".

That is not knowing if "words" are "magic".

I believe there is something more freeing than "controlling your world".

That is not knowing if you have any power at all, or all power.

Ignorance may not be bliss, but can you move past it?

I don't believe words have any power.

I will tell you some things about this idea, and why I wouldn't like it to be true.

If positive words can make positive things happen, then negative words or thoughts can make negative things happen.

We are meant then to use or choose our words wisely and beneficially, but what if we cant, or have trouble controlling these or our thoughts?

We end up in a battle between good words and bad words, good thoughts and bad thoughts. (Firstly, these concepts themselves may be entirely unknowable for certain).

Then we might live afraid of bad words and bad thoughts, worrying what we think might harm us from ourselves.

So I've taken a radical route, which should not be feared:

To overcome the fear of words, one can boldly state everything they fear and all negative possibilities applied to themselves. It isn't about what you believe at all, you may realize, that you have no power at all as far as you can tell.

That doom saying doesn't bring doom, but that you're not a God nor have any power, nor if you were some ultra powerful being right now, do you know it for sure.

And if any of you is an ultra powerful being, then place make all the bad things in the world go away, right away, and make us all live happilly ever after starting now, please, if you can? Can't you? Maybe with the power of words?

But these ideas are also limitations. I believe I know some great things about sorcery, and how to effectively pass these boundaries, and I believe I know that magic is self delusion.

Don't take what I'm saying negatively! I mean the way to master magical though is to be able to delve into complete self delusion to the point of really experiencing what you believe. But doing so, may only take you further away from the "real" reality, if there is one.

Does anyone understand?

I think it is best not to say words have power, because we might live in fear or combat with our words and thoughts because of this idea.

Free yourselves?

If you want to be a sorceror, you must be willing to completely and deeply delude yourself. Your belief in limitations and systems then may only slow you from your instant twisting of your experience.

But do you really want this power, which you may very well have? Isn't it better to rely on things being controlled by something greater than just us?

I can never state that Satan is a god any any real sense, there is only One God.

The quote is translated in a variety of ways including:

"In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the {d} light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the {e} image of God, should shine unto them."

God also has no physical "form" so when it is said "image of God" it is also a metaphor and probably not intended to be literal. It is thought by many scholars to mean that some of the traits of God can be imitated in some way by humans, such as mercifulness, benevolence, kindness, gentleness.

Also, I agree with some scholars and "Church Fathers" from the past who have interpreted the meaning of the verse to indicate that God actually is the one with all the power, so is also ultimate the one which blinds those who don't believe.

This is also an important message that is found in the Qur'an, that it is God who blinds those who turn away and go astray, and they wander on aimlessly then. Nothing else has the power to blind anyone or anything and it is God who provides all our faculties of hearing, sight, and understanding. Those who decidedly turn away from God are the one who a veil is put over so that they can't see, and it is God who also ultimately supports any event, and nothing can exist without God being the ultimate creator and supporter of the event.

I can never ever say that Satan is God or a God or a god or anything like that. Nor can I say that Satan has any power to blind anyone or turn them away from God, because then Satan would be the only one to blame for anything. Satan has no power, just the ability to suggest things like he did to Adam and Eve, and to create agendas that he inspires in some to spread that are harmful for people or intended to turn them against God, but if anyone turns away from God through disbelief, it is God alone who can take away their ability to see the truth anymore.

Here is another approach, if one is going to be so literal to say Satan is actually a God or a God of this age or world, then why not also be literal about the blindness caused? The blindness is a metaphor and the godhood isn't?

But it very easily could actually be talking about God as well. Either way, I'll never ever say Satan is a literal God in any sense, nor that he has any power, Satan is just a liar. He'd probably love for people to think he's a God so that they can lead themselves further astray and into torment, but he's not a god no matter what anyone says because there is no God but God.

Please consider some of these things and never accept that Satan could ever be a God, nothing can be a God but God alone. Only God has the power to make people see or take their vision away.

Here is something interesting:

From "Barnes' Notes on the Bible":

"The god of this world - There can be no doubt that Satan is here designated by this appellation; though some of the fathers supposed that it means the true God, and Clarke inclines to this opinion."

From "Clarke's Commentary on the Bible":

"I must own I feel considerable reluctance to assign the epithet ὁ Θεος, The God, to Satan; and were there not a rooted prejudice in favor of the common opinion, the contrary might be well vindicated, viz. that by the God of this world the supreme Being is meant, who in his judgment gave over the minds of the unbelieving Jews to spiritual darkness, so that destruction came upon them to the uttermost."

He continues:

"But has God ever said so? and are we to take this assertion of the boasting devil and father of lies for truth? Certainly not. We are not willing to attribute the blinding of men's minds to God, because we sometimes forget that he is the God of justice, and may in judgment remove mercies from those that abuse them; but this is repeatedly attributed to him in the Bible, and the expression before us is quite a parallel to the following, Isaiah 6:9 : Go and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. Make the Heart of this People Fat, and Make their Ears Heavy, and Shut their Eyes; Lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, etc. And see the parallel places,

Matthew 13:14, Matthew 13:15; Mark 4:12; John 12:40; and particularly Romans 11:8-10 : God Hath Given Them the Spirit of Slumber, Eyes that they Should not See, and Ears that they Should not Hear; let their Eyes be Darkened, etc. Now all this is spoken of the same people, in the same circumstances of wilful rebellion and obstinate unbelief; and the great God of heaven and earth is he who judicially blinds their eyes; makes their hearts fat, i.e. stupid; gives them the spirit of slumber: and bows down their back, etc. On these very grounds it is exceedingly likely that the apostle means the true God by the words the god of this world."

He goes on to say:

"And as to the expression this world, we are not to imagine that it necessarily means wicked men, or a wicked age; for it is frequently used to express the whole mundane system, and all that is called time: Whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in This World, nor in the world to come; Matthew 12:32. In Luke 20:34, the children, of This World, mean simply mankind at large in their state of probation in this lower world, in opposition to their state in the world to come. The same meaning the word has in several other places, to which l need not refer; it simply implying the present state of things, governed by the Divine providence, in contradistinction from the eternal state: and it is very remarkable that, in 1 Timothy 1:17, God himself is called

the King of the World; what we call King eternal; but here it evidently means him who governs both worlds, and rules in time and eternity. This character among the Asiatics is considered essential to God; and therefore in the very first surat of the Koran he is called Rubbi Alalameen, "the Lord of both worlds," an expression perfectly similar to that above. But it is needless to multiply examples; they exist in abundance. Some, and particularly the ancient fathers, have connected with ___ and have read the verse: But God hath blinded the minds of the unbelievers of this world, etc. Irenaeus, Tertullian, Chrysostom, Theodoret, Photius, Theophylact, and Augustine, all plead for the above meaning; and St. Augustine says that it was the opinion of almost all the ancients.

Lest the light of the glorious Gospel - They have resisted the grace which God gave them, and have refused to yield to the evidences which amply prove the Messiahship of Jesus; and therefore their eyes were judicially darkened, as it is said in the prophet: He hath closed their eyes, and hath given them the spirit of slumber. That is, they have shut their eyes against the light, and their blindness and stupor are the consequence."

Another scholars makes an interesting note that might explain some ideas within Jewish circles:

Vincent's Word Studies
The god of this world

The phrase occurs only here. Compare Ephesians 2:2; Ephesians 6:12; John 12:31; John 14:30. Satan is called god in the rabbinical writings. "The first God is the true God; but the second god is Samael." "The matron said, 'Our god is greater than thy God; for when thy God appeared to Moses in the bush, he hid his face; when, however, he saw the serpent, which is my god, he fled."'

Very cool! Aleph Tau is a cool name! Might it be also called At? like Aht? It also kind of reminds me of the name of Satan according to the Yezidi Satan worshippers who called himself Melek Taus but specifies that he's the one known as Satan by the religions.

I will never admit to the real existence of anything other than the one God to be called a God. The words translated as "gods" may not actually mean they qualify as any kind of God. If they exist they are just beings and creations of God just like we are.

Cool! I haven't read your notes yet, sorry for taking so long with that long email, also if you want more evidence from the Bible of the "God of Abraham" calling for the slaughter of "infidels" pre emptively, I can start collecting all the quotes again! But I think you might be familiar enough with scripture to see how shocking it seemed to me to suggest that God in the Bible might not have ordered the killing of men women children and animals pre emptively on multiple occasions. I do understand how you might have thought Islam or the Qur'an suggested to "kill the infidels" based on the vast propaganda to depict Islam and the Qur'an as a threat, but I hope I've made it really clear that it is actually very reasonable compared to the Bible. I believe God can order anything God wants, but I also don't feel that God orders people to "kill the infidels" if God says so as the Bible suggests. There are so many aspects of how the Qur'an is much more reasonable than the Bible, and the Qur'an seems much less violent in many ways compared to events depicted in the Bible. The Qur'an suggests that things weren't as bad as depicted in the Bible and that the people in the Bible were actually very gentle and sincere. For example there is no Lot sleeping with the daughters, or Noah being naked and cursing his son and his progeny, or any of what might seem like the absurdities or injustices that exist in the Bible, in the Qur'an. Yet the Qur'an and Islam is called so many names and accused of so many things and scripture is pointed out with bad intentions to try to prove its evil somehow while it claims to be from the God of Abraham and depicts that God as much more fair and gentle, and even Abraham as much more honest and soft hearted than depictions in the Bible where Abraham seems to even lie and do other things that don't match up entirely with very pleasant depiction of Abraham in the Qur'an.

Yes, but I think it is an important word in english that should be exclusively defined as the ultimate, omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, rather than using the word for anything less than that, or anything in general. If anything can be called God, the word loses its meaning entirely and the definition changes to "any created thing" while God is the creator only. Also, I only read a little so far of your wonderful information about demons and I'm already loving it. The belief that demons can cause physical sickness seems to have been prevalent in ancient Babylonia as well. I don't give demons even that much power or ability, but I think the concept is awesome, and I'm excited to continue to read more! Only God gives sickness and only God gives health. Only God has all power over your benefit and your harm. I guess the closest one could get to suggesting a demon has some power over sickness is to compare demons to something physical like drinking poison or something, or maybe like how it seems that a human might be able to hit another human. But I don't think demons can really do that even since their bodies are not solid and we can walk right through them. They might be able to suggest things to a person and try to convince a person to do things like kill themselves or drink alcohol perhaps though, but I dont believe they can force things like sicknesses on people. Only God can cause harm on people ultimately, and sickness and health. I'm pretty sure that kind of statement is confirmed in the Bible as well.

I don't know if I can honestly attest to knowing of a period "pre" or before believing in the all powerful God that I still believe in. I was worshipping God even at age 3 it seems. I may have always been a believer. Is there anything more specific you might want to know?

Thank you so much for all your patience! I truly appreciate that you take the effort to read what I write and respond, its so kind of you! Have a wonderful rest! Thanks again for all your kindness!
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as well as:

They disturbed me because, I often seem to defend Judaism and Christianity from attacks, as well as working to defend all the other religions including those of the Egyptians and Romans. But In writing those emails and research my replies, I came upon reading many things from the Bible that really repulsed me deeply. I felt so disgusted and could see how vastly different it is from the Qur'an for example.

They can be found here:

[link to skepticsannotatedbible.com]

It should be noted that the notes by the collector may not always be accurate so the verses should be looked at in context.


Someone commented about the Qur'an:

Shouldn't these not count as new entries, since they are essentially the same thing (talking about one event)? I found very few (repeats) of this in the Bible; (the accounts were each unique rather than) just retelling of the flood or sodomites.

If there are so many accounts in the Quran that are virtually the same saying, then those accounts should really be pooled and counted as just one passage.

It would be interesting to see if the Quran has a higher percentage of violent passages than the Bible, after something like this was done. Of course, to be fair, one would have to do the same for the Bible.

What do you think?
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His article was based on a chart that was comparing the "violence" of both books, but didn't realize the Qur'an speaks of the same things repeatedly while the Bible has unique instances of violence throughout. Also the violence in the Bible and Qur'an can not be compared, the Bible's violence gives an impression of being totally unjust and wild with no ethics, and the Qur'an has reasoning behind things that seems to justify any instances. Plus the Bible is terribly graphic and grotesque in many ways while the Qur'an is not at all in comparison.

Even despite taking these considerations in hand and reaching hard to include every possible mention of one event in the Qur'an, the Bible was shown to have double the instances of violence. Though the nature of the violence was not taken into consideration or how unique each instance was. If that were taken into consideration the Bible would far outweight the Qur'an utter violence.
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People treat so many religions with hate without actually carefully examining each.

But, I don't think Christianity or Judaism should be approached by insulting other religions to try to "discredit" Christianity or Judaism, I don't think they can really be discredited at all. Everything they say no matter how brutal or terrible it seems might be totally true, there is no real way to know for sure as far as I can tell.

_____

I get pretty annoyed when people totally mess around with Egyptian historical and mythological information or word etymologies. Zeitgeist was especially annoying for totally just making up a fake history and claims. I'm big on history and mythology, so it is especially dissapointing when people just totally make up stuff and offer no historical source documents to confirm the claims. You can read about how the claims made by Zeitgeist were almost all totally false and completely baseless.

One of the most ridiculous claims that so many readily accepted was that "son" is "sun" when the Greek word used in the Bible for "son" and "servant" was pais and the word for sun of helios which has no etymological relationship at all.

Zeitgeist made up lots of stuff about Horus too that was entirely baseless.

Many people might not even know about the monotheism in ancient egypt prior to Aten.

Ra was the manifest God, or the apparent aspect of God while Amun was the hidden and unseen. The "Gods" were very likely just considered aspects of God represented in symbolic imagery, and there is some evidence to suggest this understanding, somewhat similar to some ideas in Hinduism.

_____

Whatever you saw, the ideas probably came from the same source as what inspired Zeitgeist. But you shouldn't believe what they say just because they say it and sound convincing. I suggest actually looking for the historical evidence, and understanding, you'll find they largely just make up things. The words for son and sun in Greek have no similar sound or meaning, they are pais and helios, completely unrelated words. The whole premise of the sun and son thing is that they sound similar in english, which had nothing to do with the New Testament which is in Greek, nor were sons and suns connected in Greek understanding at all. Pais is also the word for servant, and the word for Master in greek can also be translated as Father.

________

To understand the sacrifice of the son idea, you'll have to look into the Jewish idea of the "scapegoat" which was a community sacrifice of an animal in order to cleanse the village or community of their sins. Jesus was considered the ultimate version of this sacrifice, and it also has allusions to the sacrifice of Abraham and other ideas within Judaism.

_______

Christianity is not "Aryan", and the "Aryans" did not worship the sun, but rather a monotheistic God called Brahman in India while in Iran the God came to be known as Ahura Mazda meaning wise lord.

_________

Generally in ancient mythology water was considered the most primary life giving element. That is why there is so much about rain and rivers and fertile soil. There weren't really any incedents of a lack of sun, and the sun was largely considered a strain on people due to the intense heat. Water on the other hand was cooling, refreshing, and more clearly life giving to the plants and crops. Do you think about these things?

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Wow, I don't think "Ra" is comparable to "Yeshua". I would think a better and more accurate comparison would be the Pharoah and Ra = Jesus and God.

The term Pharoah is said to mean "Great House", and basically to mean that these are the descendents of the great house and the older Pharoahs, who were considered by the Fifth Dynasty (Dynasty V dates approximately from 2494 to 2345 BC) supposedly the "son of Ra". Prior to this it seemed that they were incarnate with the vital aspects of Horus.

If you look to the most ancient egyptian sequence of histories available, you might see that they followed astrological implications for each reign. This becomes obvious with the specific honorary titles given to the pharoahs, some of the gear they are depicted in, and their supposed actions during the periods. These may have been spiritual and symbolic representations and the events presented may not have been at the time expected as real events.

There would be a warlike Pharoah represented by a certain animal and sign, followed by one that was more financially inclined, followed by one that did other things.

For example [link to en.wikipedia.org]

Narmer, considered to be the first Pharoah of the Early Dynastic period is called "The Catfish". Later came Djet who may have also been called "Horus Cobra" and may have been represented by what was later called Ophiuchus.

Certain things were written as to have been done during these periods, and in some way the Pharoah's reign may have been one of the ways time was measured by the people in some respects.

Another extremely important aspect to life and survival in Kemet (Egypt) was the Nile and its fertility.

A belief may have arisen that a certain mode of actions or ritualized behaviors would ensure the desired behavior of the Nile. This may have been another reason certain Pharoahs were expected to at least spiritually represent the actions that seemed beneficial during certain celestial seasons. As the potential incarnation of a celestial season, the behavior of the Pharoah at least on a spiritual level was thought to be most beneficial in accord to the actions that were seen as most effective under that constellation. Since the Pharoah may have been the active representation of that "Heavenly House" he would have to fulfill its behaviors in some ways to ensure the safety of the people in harmony with the Nile.

One might even go so far as to say the Pharoah was less of a ruler as much as a kind of spiritual weather tuner or air conditioner, that was meant to bring success to the people through his correct behaviors.

In that sense, one might be able to clearly see how Jesus could be considered the Pharoah of mankind (or the Jews).

The basic idea I'm trying to present is that the Pharoah might not have been as much of a "ruler" making decisions as he was "ruled" by God and traditional expectations.

Much of the "power" in a modern sense, such as active decision making, may have rested with those who trained the Pharoah, his advisors, the priesthood, and the financial organizors (such as what Joseph was said to have become at one point) and those who organized and controlled military troops and operations. Some Pharoahs may have tried to become "rulers" in their own right, making their own decisions, but these were probably the Pharoahs that were viewed very unfavorably and were sometimes even murdered for their arrogant seeming attempts at changing things.

To protect the people further from their discordant nature, their living memories (representations of them) were defaced and cursed to return in accordance with the natural flow of things which was believed to follow a system.

So I believe the position of Pharoah was that of a man meant to represent all the people in the community, to be primary accomplisher of every single harmonius action that he was meant to represent by his incarnation.

Others were expected or reccomended to do the same, but they lived relatively normal lives. It was the Pharoah who was expected to do things perfectly to secure beneficial results for everyone.

So it seems the Pharoah was almost expected to be an "empty" person, devoid of any personal nature that might be discordant towards the nature they were meant to be the incarnations of.

If the Pharoah was the incarnation of a certain "Great House" in the sky, a constellation, that was determined to have been most beneficial as a war season, he was meant to be the incarnation of the war season and act accordingly in order to ensure the safety and prosperity of all the people, even those who were themselves acting of their own accord.

"The royal titulary or royal protocol of an Egyptian Pharaoh is the standard naming convention taken by the kings of Ancient Egypt. It symbolises worldly power and holy might and also acts as a sort of mission statement for the reign of a monarch (sometimes it even changed during the reign)."


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Ahura and Buddha have nothing to do with each other. What does the book matter if it is just making things up randomly? You should study the religions themselves in depth, maybe you'll come to another understanding, or one similar to me.

Ahura Mazda is the God of Zoroastrianism, and a representation of the one all powerful God. Later on this religion became somewhat dualistic and had a major influence on dualistic concepts of reality.

Buddhism is largely about nondualism, and the Buddha is not a God, but rather a human being who came to understand the "nature of reality" and how to escape "suffering". This does not have anything to do with Ahura Mazda. The Buddha was a reaction to early vedic Brahmanism and developed among people who were already traditionally averse to the Aryan religion of monotheism.

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Wow, I'm sorry, but that doesn't seem right. The sun is not a "common denominator" in all these religions. The Buddha was opposed to Brahmanism and was the central enemy to the Brahman religion. Brahman was never depicted as the sun, but was compared to water insead. The Brahman was supposed to be the ultimate reality which encompassed everything, and was never depicted as a light or anything similar to the sun. The Buddha rejected worship to Brahman as a means to achieve Nirvana, but rather Buddhists went so far to suggest the Brahman might be a delusion low level demiurge. The Buddha as depicted in Pali Canon did not have any references to the sun or even any sun symbolism, but again the idea of water was largely important in Buddhism and the concept of "entering the stream".

Zoroaster was considered the Prophet of Ahura Mazda, which was originally a strictly monotheistic religion which later became less strict in that regard and slowly became more dualistic with the philosophical suggestion of an opposing serpent, Angra Mainyu. This was not originally a part of Zoroastrianism though and was developed as an explanation for evil or harm while maintaining the goodness of Ahura Mazda.

The Rig Veda and early Vedic literature is very clear about worshipping the elements or material things such as the sun is complete ignorance, and the Vedic religion and early Brahmanic understanding of God was very sophisticated and philosophically advanced. Only later through a mixing of ideas presented by the southern tribes did idols come to represent "aspects" of Gods, while various monotheistic Gods were combined in order to justify unity between tribes. For example, Brahmanism, Vishnaism, and Shaivism were all distinct religions that united with a Trimurti or Trinity where the One God is represented as the three aspects of God, Brahman (The creator), Vishnu (the maintainer), and Shiva (the destroyer) to represent the three major functions of the one God, while each of these Gods were considered the one and only monotheistic God with the same aspects as the others just with a different name.

The Buddha is a practically atheistic approach to religion, and should not be included in the monotheistic understandings of the world apparent at the time elsewhere.

Each of these religions seemed to value water symbology over sun symbology. The closest to sun symbology was latter Zoroastrianism where Ahura Mazda came to represent the light, while Angra Mainyu represented darkness, while this was not so much about the sun as wisdom versus ignorance.

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Why would the Roman and Greek myths be less legitimate than those that were believed up till now to be Christian?

I'm sorry if I have seemed ignorant due to my suggestion that the Romans may not have worshipped the sun.

"Sol Invictus was the official sun god of the later Roman empire. In 274 Aurelian made it an official cult alongside the traditional Roman cults."

I was more focused on traditional Roman religion and not the later introductions that may have been more secular in nature.

" it became the preferred epithet of Rome's traditional Sol and the novel, short-lived Roman state cult to Elagabalus, an Emesan solar deity who headed Rome's official pantheon under his namesake emperor."

"The earliest dated use of Sol invictus is in a dedication from Rome, AD 158"

I consider myself more attuned to the early Roman religion which I find to be very much like my own in many ways.

"The first sun god consistently termed invictus was the provincial Syrian god Elagabalus. According to the Historia Augusta, the teenaged Severan heir adopted the name of his deity and brought his cult image from Emesa to Rome."

This may be why it didn't register as very Roman to me.

"Once installed as emperor, he neglected Rome's traditional State deities and promoted his own as Rome's most powerful deity. This ended with his murder in 222.

The Historia Augusta refers to the deity Elagabalus as "also called Jupiter and Sol" (fuit autem Heliogabali vel Iovis vel Solis).[14]

This has been seen as an abortive attempt to impose the Syrian sun god on Rome;[15] but because it is now clear that the Roman cult of Sol remained firmly established in Rome throughout the Roman period,[16] this Syrian Sol Elagabalus has become no more relevant to our understanding of the Roman Sol than, for example, the Syrian Jupiter Dolichenus is for our understanding of the Roman Jupiter."

I'm most attracted to the earliest incarnations of Roman religion, even prior to the Roman Empire, which related to knowledge of the numen and the dignity and respect related to personal conduct and approach in dealing with God. That formality, often thrills me, but there were more "rustic" aspects of Roman religion also, prior to the Empire and the secularization of the Roman religion.

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If we regress further, we may end up in Vedic India. I'm glad you find yourself connected to Rome and possibly even Roman reverence and procedure. I believe their understanding of the nature of religion was not so divided as might have been understood by scholars who were reintroduced to imagery present in ancient Rome. I believe that India gives a good key to understanding Aryan religion and monotheism which was likely present in early Rome and may have continued to exist throughout Rome. The unity of God and the representations of God as aspects, similar to how Brahman priests now justify the iconic imagery present in India today. I'm very attracted to and comfortable in romanesque attire. I don't believe the depictions of Rome in many films really do it justice in regards to the color available and in use in Rome.

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The other day I was looking at some philosophies and noted some I felt I could incorporate:

Fallibilism: Every statement and proposed truth could be in error.
Skepticism: It is impossible to know you know anything for certain.
Nihilism: Nothing has any intrinsic value or meaning.
Defeatism: There may be no way to escape.
Agnosticism: Knowledge can not be known with certainty.
Amoralism: There is nothing with intrinsic morality. God has the utmost right to define anything.
Panentheism: God encompasses everything. Nothing can exist independent of God.
Monism: Essentially there is only God. Everything is made by God and entirely dependent on God.
Monotheism: God is the only God, there can be no other infinite God but God the infinite alone.
Determinism: God is the first uncaused cause and mover which all things rely on and were determined by.
Quietism: Philosophical dialogue and break down can be therapeutic.
Vitalism: There is something beyond the natural organic material composition of things. God is vital.
Animism: All objects may have a "soul" or can have a "soul".
Hylozoism: Everything is living on some level.
Probabilism: Nothing is known for certain or guaranteed, probability is the next best course.

Anarchy: There is no need for Government or Leadership.
Socialism: If there is a government, it should work for the benefit of all people.
Pessimism: Socialism and attempts at utopian ideals are dangerous and impossible.
Libertarianism: People should be left to their own devices. Everyone should be sovereign in their own right.
Pacifism: Avoidance of violence.

Islam (Finding Peace through Surrender to God)
Ahimsa (Do No Harm)

Ex nihilo: The existence of Nothing but God can potentially exist.

If someone reads all that I'll be so happy and amazed! It would be truly appreciated!

Lester, what you say is true. For those stuck in organized Christianity ANSWER THIS ONE, how do billions who never heard the Name JESUS become BORN AGAIN. Can a muslim become born again, a buddhist, aaaaaa whatever? YES. One becomes BORN AGAIN IN SPIRIT and it matters NOT the religion or culture one was raised in. It means coming out of ungodly behaviors and walking a lighted path, and it can happen to anyone, anywhere. What is wrong with Christianity, as believed, is that you all think YOU are the only ones who can do this, be born again, and then many (not all) of you walk all over others your whole rest of your live, and are NOT thus born again of the Spirit you don't understand.

This false christian belief system, is currently used to cause "Christians" to support Israel, and these terrible wars by Israel controlling the United States, in the Middle East. Does not the bible suggest the antichrist comes out of the middle east, it is ISRAEL and the Khazar thugs that run this world, from there, Rome and London.

I have witnessed enough ugly "born again" shit on this planet, to have my fill long ago. Yea ones think you can go to church, believe ON Jesus, and you have yet to figure out that GOD (or JESUS, Christ Michael, and the Father) is within YOU. And you are to grow your soul in goodness. Your SOUL is YOUR MIND, and so many when they become Christians, as in the corporate structures forget all about their MIND and growing it knowledge and goodness.

There is that misunderstood story of Adam and Eve eating of the Tree of Knowledge and I guess they went to hell for it. YOU ARE TO EAT of that Tree, and grow your MIND and for many, it seems mind growth just stops when they start going to church.

I am not putting down real christians here, which can come from any faith, and may not have ever heard the Name Jesus. They have heard the name GOD however. That we are still in this horrid wars in the Middle EAst, and have killed over 20 million people now in Iraq and Afghanistan alone, is proof positive that most who claim in this country alone to be Christians, have failed, utterly failed, in being that Light of God. You will not come into joint sovereignty and kick the beast out of our government. You are so believing in Jesus the WrONG way you do not see your light. It remains hidden.

I just recently witnessed such a perfect example of what I have seen over and over and over.

A really Godly person started a little coffee Knitting group where I live, our of her sincere inner desire to serve during her last days of life. She passed recently, and many of these attending this group are "born again" Christians. And UGLY as shit. Now this lady that passed was wondrous, a very OLD soul and mature. I watched her in amazement each week how she went about being the God Within. But she did not like organized religion and neither did her best friend. Well after she passed we were together on the usual day, and the discussion turned to DID SHE GET SAVED?
Yes about a million years ago probably.

Well knowing this ones thinking themselves "saved" I made a simple eulogy to this marvelous woman and her light. (who spent also a good part of her life singing great music such as that by Handel) Well, one of these "righteous ones" attending, said it mattered not how brilliant the light shown, if she didn't accept Jesus as her Lord and Savior, she was thus in HELL. You cannot not believe the affect this statement had on that little group. Especially the good friend. her face, oh my. This less than enlightened soul, is a Baptist. And when she utters these words, I have seen similar in her before, her eyes get small, beady and dark. It's as if "satan" just moved into her for the occasion. The window to the soul is in the eyes, and there was never better proof of this than the light in the eyes of this lovely person that passed, and the darkness in the eyes in this small "Christian" soul.

This is so typical of so many "pious" Christians. I have been sent to HELL by them my whole life and I cannot long stand to be in these churches. As part of my research into religion on this world, I was going to lots of various local churches and even seeing the mainstream ones going the way of this horrid evangelical movement of the THUGS. I continue to get sent to Hell by them here too. HELL is HavingEverLastingLife, Fire is Firey Intelligence Reverberating Eternally. Yes that beloved lady of LIGHT is in "hell fire" and my friends, the satanic folks changed "hellfire" into something of the devil, when it's something you should ATTAIN. By your works given with LOVE from the heart. Didn't the bible say someplace correctly, that Satan is the master of LIES. YOU WANT HELLFIRE for yourselves!!!!!!!!!! It is not a ugly place.

HELLFIRE is HOT, because the more love and growth, the higher the vibration of soul (and matter), "heaven" gets hotter and hotter in fact as the vibrations increased. A being form the Central Universe is incredibly "hot".

COLD is the symptom of Darkness, not HEAT. This Baptist lady showed her COLD and then some.

PONDER the ABOVE.

What, really? Have you even READ the bible??

Jesus was supposed to be the ultimate sacrifice to the bestial blood-thirsty monster of the OT.

However, this goes to prove my point. It's nearly impossible to continue to believe in jesus and the "love" of "father god" if don't just dismiss a whole entire HALF of the disgusting book.

It's the same exact god!

What do you think the OT is there for decoration?? It's there to show you the FATHER GOD that you are supposed to be worshiping through and/or AS jesus!

I see that one flew right over your head.

That's the point I was trying to make... it makes no sense to claim that the OT god is the same as the NT god and if they're not the same, then the religion itself makes no sense what-the-fuck-ever.

Sorry, but this is exactly opposite. I was a christian. I used to cherry-pick the things that supported the religion. Constantly, I kept running into things that didn't work, didn't fit, and couldn't be forced to make sense no matter what kind of mental gymnastics I did. For a long time, I managed to just "take it on faith" that these inconsistencies and errors and outright contradictions were just because I was plain out too stupid to understand god.

But you know, in the end, I couldn't manage it anymore. The bible's own inconsistencies finally killed my faith in it.

The "god" portrayed in there is really nothing short of a human being--of the worst kind--caricaturized for us to worship and grovel before.

Worshiping the bible is worshiping the self--but only the worst parts of it, to boot.

The only way to believe the bible is to dismiss, ignore, excuse, or to simply deny multitudes of inconsistencies, lies, contradictions, etc. in the bLibel.

You said some interesting things:

"There is that misunderstood story of Adam and Eve eating of the Tree of Knowledge and I guess they went to hell for it. YOU ARE TO EAT of that Tree."

"And UGLY as shit."

"It's as if "satan" just moved into her for the occasion. The window to the soul is in the eyes, and there was never better proof of this than the light in the eyes of this lovely person that passed, and the darkness in the eyes in this small "Christian" soul. "

"This is so typical of so many "pious" Christians. I have been sent to HELL by them my whole life and I cannot long stand to be in these churches."

"this horrid evangelical movement of the THUGS. I continue to get sent to Hell by them here too. HELL is HavingEverLastingLife"

"Fire is Firey Intelligence Reverberating Eternally."

"Yes that beloved lady of LIGHT is in "hell fire" and my friends, the satanic folks changed "hellfire" into something of the devil, when it's something you should ATTAIN."


"By your works given with LOVE from the heart. Didn't the bible say someplace correctly, that Satan is the master of LIES. YOU WANT HELLFIRE for yourselves!!!!!!!!!! It is not a ugly place."

"HELLFIRE is HOT, because the more love and growth, the higher the vibration of soul (and matter), "heaven" gets hotter and hotter in fact as the vibrations increased. A being form the Central Universe is incredibly "hot"."

"COLD is the symptom of Darkness, not HEAT. This Baptist lady showed her COLD and then some."

"PONDER the ABOVE."
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Can you see how you might be misled by deceptive entities?

Most of you don't know anything about the Bible. "Christianity" is just a label we place on people, same as a "goth" or "prep" or anyone else who's worldview can be contained in a single word. Words can be very effective at putting certain character types into filing cabinets in your mind but lets get something right, the Bible is a tool... It can be used to control weak-minded people and bring them to a new level of bondage or it can be used to utterly set someone free...

The Bible is a very interesting book and I wouldn't expect people who have been designed by the world to reject all immaterial things or to accept an irrational form spiritual governance as rational and legitimate to understand concepts that are established in the Bible...

Replacement theology is not only an insult, it's complete BS.

Wake up and feel that your coffee is fucking cold drunkards and mockers. The theology DIDN'T change. There are hundreds of prophecies in the old testament take speak of the coming of the messiah, and wow then he came, amazing?! Duh. Jesus said: I did not come to do away with the law and the prophets but to make their teachings come true. If you dorks might recall, God in the ot said: I desire obedience and not sacrifice! So wake up, learn to be holy and righteous, fulfil the law of God who is love and live forever more as a pure being. But you ppl talking bs about things you know absolutely nothing about doesn't benefit yourselves. Do you fucknuts honestly believe that reasonable ppl are going to believe your anti-christ satanic dogma. All kent hovind needs a a good sativa joint and then he'll come right, he's almost there. No-one in the bible does it say: don't smoke cannabis-that is the war on drugs started by satan himself, oh I mean america lmfao

Wake up and feel that your coffee is fucking cold drunkards and mockers. The theology DIDN'T change. There are hundreds of prophecies in the old testament take speak of the coming of the messiah, and wow then he came, amazing?! Duh. Jesus said: I did not come to do away with the law and the prophets but to make their teachings come true. If you dorks might recall, God in the ot said: I desire obedience and not sacrifice! So wake up, learn to be holy and righteous, fulfil the law of God who is love and live forever more as a pure being. But you ppl talking bs about things you know absolutely nothing about doesn't benefit yourselves. Do you fucknuts honestly believe that reasonable ppl are going to believe your anti-christ satanic dogma. All kent hovind needs a a good sativa joint and then he'll come right, he's almost there. No-one in the bible does it say: don't smoke cannabis-that is the war on drugs started by satan himself, oh I mean america lmfao

Wake up and feel that your coffee is fucking cold drunkards and mockers. The theology DIDN'T change. There are hundreds of prophecies in the old testament take speak of the coming of the messiah, and wow then he came, amazing?! Duh. Jesus said: I did not come to do away with the law and the prophets but to make their teachings come true. If you dorks might recall, God in the ot said: I desire obedience and not sacrifice! So wake up, learn to be holy and righteous, fulfil the law of God who is love and live forever more as a pure being. But you ppl talking bs about things you know absolutely nothing about doesn't benefit yourselves. Do you fucknuts honestly believe that reasonable ppl are going to believe your anti-christ satanic dogma. All kent hovind needs a a good sativa joint and then he'll come right, he's almost there. No-one in the bible does it say: don't smoke cannabis-that is the war on drugs started by satan himself, oh I mean america lmfao

TRUE!