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Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died

 
zephyr
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02/20/2011 06:09 PM
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Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died
I live in the desert southwest 50 miles from the border of northern Mexico. I have lived here off and on for the past 20 years. My city always has nice palm trees and beautiful vegetation in most of the year.

We have mild winters compared to everyone else but it can get cold an it does occasionally snow a few inches.

2 weeks ago one night we got to -3 degrees F. For about 5 nights total we were in the teens F.

Of course we are now up to 75 degrees in the daytime and 40's at night which is normal.

having laid out this backdrop... in driving around all the palm trees look dead and there are 1000's around here, they all look the same, even big established palms look awful.

Oleanders grow here abudantly they all look dead as well.

Did a few nights of extremem cold kill off and entire city of palm tree and vegetation OR come spring will they grow new leaves and just need to be trimmed?

I have seen cold night here but I have never seen the plants look so dead and everywhere in the city.

Last Edited by zephyr on 02/20/2011 06:12 PM
Live and let live.......really
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2011 06:12 PM
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Re: Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died
it's very likely actually. All plants have a temperature threshold in which damage or death is likely. Many tropical species simply have not evolved to handle temperatures below zero and will die. Imagine if FL had a temp below zero.. everything would be dead. That one night is probably what did it. It only takes one night.

3 below zero is VERY COLD for a tropical plant not used to those temperatures.
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02/20/2011 06:15 PM
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Re: Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died
It's the magnetic forces from The Destroyer, Nemesis, Wormwood, plus 20 MORE names given it by the ancient civilizations, JUST SO modern scientists could call ALL these reports MYTHS !

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Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2011 06:17 PM
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Re: Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died
bump
zephyr  (OP)

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02/20/2011 06:18 PM
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Re: Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died
it's very likely actually. All plants have a temperature threshold in which damage or death is likely. Many tropical species simply have not evolved to handle temperatures below zero and will die. Imagine if FL had a temp below zero.. everything would be dead. That one night is probably what did it. It only takes one night.

3 below zero is VERY COLD for a tropical plant not used to those temperatures.
 Quoting: TLDR


I so hope this is not going to be true, like I said there are 1000's around here and they make our city really pretty, I have 7 different types in my yard alone, it would just be horrible if they all died.
Live and let live.......really
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2011 06:21 PM
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Re: Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died
I live in the desert southwest 50 miles from the border of northern Mexico. I have lived here off and on for the past 20 years. My city always has nice palm trees and beautiful vegetation in most of the year.

We have mild winters compared to everyone else but it can get cold an it does occasionally snow a few inches.

2 weeks ago one night we got to -3 degrees F. For about 5 nights total we were in the teens F.

Of course we are now up to 75 degrees in the daytime and 40's at night which is normal.

having laid out this backdrop... in driving around all the palm trees look dead and there are 1000's around here, they all look the same, even big established palms look awful.

Oleanders grow here abudantly they all look dead as well.

Did a few nights of extremem cold kill off and entire city of palm tree and vegetation OR come spring will they grow new leaves and just need to be trimmed?

I have seen cold night here but I have never seen the plants look so dead and everywhere in the city.
 Quoting: zephyr


The cold could have well killed them all. That sort of thing happens. When you have 100 year record temps, anything that's been there less than 100 years is vulnerable.
zephyr  (OP)

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02/20/2011 06:24 PM
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Re: Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died

The cold could have well killed them all. That sort of thing happens. When you have 100 year record temps, anything that's been there less than 100 years is vulnerable.
 Quoting: zephyr


well our record low was set in 1962 at -10 but the city was 3/4 less in population and vegetation than it is now and I am not sure if any palm trees were here at that time and if they died.

thanks........
Live and let live.......really
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2011 06:26 PM
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Re: Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died
One other thing. Generally a hard freeze is 28 degrees F for 4 hours. If it got that cold or colder, anything that is not frost tolerant probably died.

Here in Florida where I live we had one unusually cold night last winter that killed all the wild iguanas (not native). The next day there were dead iguanas everywhere.
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2011 06:32 PM
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Re: Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died
YES I KNOW A THING OR TWO ABOUT PLANTS.

WHAT YOU ARE EXPERIENCING HAS TO DO WITH LA NUNITA:
LESSER KNOW TORROIDIAL EFFECTS DUE TO THE SUN'S PEAK CYLE AND ANOMOLIES WITHIN THE PACIFIC SEA FLOOR CURRENTS PICKING UP SPEED HAVE EFFECTS THAT ARE SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU ARE DESCRIBING.

I WOULD GO HARVEST SOME OF THAT OLEANDER BEFORE IT GOES BAD AND FEED IT TO THE HOMELESS IN A NICE CARROT RAISIN SALAD.
zephyr  (OP)

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02/20/2011 06:33 PM
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Re: Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died
One other thing. Generally a hard freeze is 28 degrees F for 4 hours. If it got that cold or colder, anything that is not frost tolerant probably died.

Here in Florida where I live we had one unusually cold night last winter that killed all the wild iguanas (not native). The next day there were dead iguanas everywhere.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1271703


well that does put it into perspective, it was below freezing for 8 hours consecutively for a couple of night I know because my pool automatically turns on the pump if temps are below 35 ish and it was coming on at midnight.

It froze two transformers at the electric company and we had to have rolling blackouts for 30 min stretches to keep the grids of the hospitals from shutting down...
Live and let live.......really
zephyr  (OP)

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02/20/2011 06:33 PM
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Re: Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died
One other thing. Generally a hard freeze is 28 degrees F for 4 hours. If it got that cold or colder, anything that is not frost tolerant probably died.

Here in Florida where I live we had one unusually cold night last winter that killed all the wild iguanas (not native). The next day there were dead iguanas everywhere.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1271703


well that does put it into perspective, it was below freezing for 8 hours consecutively for a couple of night I know because my pool automatically turns on the pump if temps are below 35 ish and it was coming on at midnight.

It froze two transformers at the electric company and we had to have rolling blackouts for 30 min stretches to keep the grids of the hospitals from shutting down...
Live and let live.......really
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2011 06:34 PM
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Re: Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died
I can assure you unfortunately that vegetation is in a state of decline and death everywhere. Some places worse than others. That being said, the vegetation in your city was probably already quite stressed and temperatures that extreme could certainly put tropical plants over the edge.
Dr. House

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02/20/2011 06:37 PM
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Re: Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died
Most likely your big freeze has lead to a huge die off of sub-tropical and tropical plants and trees.

Only a a handful of palms are actually native to the South West, a decent chunk of them are imported from more tropical regions where they do survive the 'average' cold snap for the southwest, however the occasional 'deep freeze' can kill them off.

Most of the palms in any city are decorative and are imported from further south.

The California Fan Palm is native to southwest USA, growing in California, Arizona and parts of Texas. And most likely will survive a deep freeze of a week of nights below freezing. Date and fig trees maybe not so much, depending on where they came from.

Oleander will, or can be killed all the way down to the soil. The roots will put up new sprouts. Some of the thicker branches can survive and produce new growth.

The Best thing to do is wait until late spring, if the plant is producing new growth, then cut of the dead growth. If not, replace the plant.

And yes whole regions can lose a lot of vegetation to a cold snap.
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weegie

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02/20/2011 06:37 PM
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Re: Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died
Duhhh....everything got frozen...leave it unless it it clearly dead...like mushy-dead. Some of it will come back and then it should be trimmed as needed. We had the same problem in South Texas...looks awful, but a lot of stuff will come back fine.

Last Edited by weegie on 02/20/2011 06:37 PM
zephyr  (OP)

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02/20/2011 06:42 PM
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Re: Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died
I can assure you unfortunately that vegetation is in a state of decline and death everywhere. Some places worse than others. That being said, the vegetation in your city was probably already quite stressed and temperatures that extreme could certainly put tropical plants over the edge.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1250527


that is what we were just discussing, the plants already looked bad because I had been commenting daily that our palms looked awful and was concerned that the watering system was out of whack...

I love palm trees and have grown them for years, normally the plants will get brown on the edges during winters and then green up in the spring, we just prune them as they grow.

Literally overnight about 2 months ago all my palms turned completely brown, totally. I was just dumbfounded and turned on the sprinklers manually.

We had been very mild up that point with the lows only in the 60's for Decemeber. So why then did my palms just go so brown and all at the same time?

I kept thinking it was just my plants so i got in the car and started driving around my neighborhood. They all look the same all plants in every yard look like some wave just came over them and killed them all at once.

It is freaking me out because I have never ever seen this much widespread and complete damage.
Live and let live.......really
zephyr  (OP)

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02/20/2011 06:45 PM
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Re: Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died
Duhhh....everything got frozen...leave it unless it it clearly dead...like mushy-dead. Some of it will come back and then it should be trimmed as needed. We had the same problem in South Texas...looks awful, but a lot of stuff will come back fine.
 Quoting: weegie


ohhh I so hope you are right about this... we are talking huge, huge palms along the streets with all their leaves broken mid point and lying over on each other and totally brown..

My hope is that they will sprout new growth in the spring and there will just be a whole lot of trimming to do....
Live and let live.......really
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2011 06:46 PM
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Re: Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died
It looks like it depends on the palm tree variety. Find the palm tree species in your area and check this chart:

[link to www.hardypalmtrees.com]

.
zephyr  (OP)

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02/20/2011 06:48 PM
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Re: Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died
I think it is hard for people who do not know what my city looks like to contemplate the severity of the situation because we have a couple of species of plams that stay green throughout the winter because they are hardy....

they were not spared this time unfortunately and whistle in the wind like dried up paper...

and yes this place looks like one big brown mess right now...

come on spring....
Live and let live.......really
zephyr  (OP)

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02/20/2011 06:50 PM
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Re: Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died
It looks like it depends on the palm tree variety. Find the palm tree species in your area and check this chart:

[link to www.hardypalmtrees.com]

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 842983


correct, the nurseries here only sell palms that can handle our climte zone...

of all the palms I have bought only one came with a no refund tag because it cannot survive below 32 degrees F so pretty sure that one is toast....
Live and let live.......really
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2011 06:52 PM
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Re: Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died
It looks like it depends on the palm tree variety. Find the palm tree species in your area and check this chart:

[link to www.hardypalmtrees.com]

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 842983


correct, the nurseries here only sell palms that can handle our climte zone...

of all the palms I have bought only one came with a no refund tag because it cannot survive below 32 degrees F so pretty sure that one is toast....
 Quoting: zephyr


yes but "your climate zone" just got hit with a climate that is not your typical climate. If it froze, and the plant or tree is not frost tolerant, then it's probably dead regardless of what the store sells.
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2011 06:53 PM
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Re: Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died
Thank you for your concern. I have a B.S. in Forest Management from the University of Minnesota and also am a Certified Arborist (tree doctor), so I might be able to provide an educated guess.

What you're describing does sound like severe frost damage, as some of the other posters pointed out. The "leaves" (called fronds on palms) of vegetation are the source to absorb sunlight to start the photosynthesis process to produce energy. When the leaves die or become severely damaged that process will slow down or stop all together. Although the leaves are damaged and possibly did die, the vascular tissue inside the stem of the tree is still functioning and circulating nutrients. The tree is operating on energy "reserves" now, and in the next couple of weeks will need to replenish their reserves. Trees usually have a "fight" response to severe stress, and will produce leaves much more rapidly than in normal circumstances.

I would say the odds of the palmettos surviving is at least 70%, given they are mature, well established trees already. The younger ones might not be so lucky.

If you look at one of the fronds and notice stippling discoloration, there might be a possibility of air pollution. However, given the short time frame which this occurred, that is very unlikely.
zephyr  (OP)

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02/20/2011 06:54 PM
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Re: Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died
Dr House, yeah we have mostly california and mexican fan palms...

The type that grow up very high and have the long thin trunks with the palms on top and then the short fat trunk type with the fans comig out in a more sideways fashion

they should have survived the cold spell but we wont know until spring...

we only had 1 night below zero but we did have many hours of below freezing, so much so we lost electric due to rolling blackouts which has not happened to me at any point in living here 20 years...
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daisey

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02/20/2011 06:56 PM
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Re: Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died
OP Are you a where of chem trails? We live in the same area and I have noticed the same thing. Go to youtube and watch the video WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE THEY SPRAYING. The same thing is happening in Hawaii with the coconut trees.
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Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2011 06:56 PM
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Re: Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died
I can assure you unfortunately that vegetation is in a state of decline and death everywhere. Some places worse than others. That being said, the vegetation in your city was probably already quite stressed and temperatures that extreme could certainly put tropical plants over the edge.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1250527


that is what we were just discussing, the plants already looked bad because I had been commenting daily that our palms looked awful and was concerned that the watering system was out of whack...

I love palm trees and have grown them for years, normally the plants will get brown on the edges during winters and then green up in the spring, we just prune them as they grow.

Literally overnight about 2 months ago all my palms turned completely brown, totally. I was just dumbfounded and turned on the sprinklers manually.

We had been very mild up that point with the lows only in the 60's for Decemeber. So why then did my palms just go so brown and all at the same time?

I kept thinking it was just my plants so i got in the car and started driving around my neighborhood. They all look the same all plants in every yard look like some wave just came over them and killed them all at once.

It is freaking me out because I have never ever seen this much widespread and complete damage.
 Quoting: zephyr



I'm not totally surprised. All the trees here in the Vancouver Canada area are either dead or dying as well. As well as everywhere else I've seen and read about. unfortunately it seems many people just choose not to acknowledge it or it just isn't bad enough yet in their particular area for them to be forced to take notice. It sounds like the plants in your area have taken a rather dramatic and sudden turn for the worse though.

I think there are many factors at play

- Changes in the magnetosphere and the amount or radiations/new radiations getting through that are not conducive to life

- Constantly rising levels of pollutions due to our constantly increasing atmospheric/tropospheric pollution levels due to ever increasing human population growth

- "Chemtrails" being sprayed to block said radiations, which end up having the side effect that the substances used are toxic to biological lifeforms

- Rapid shifts in temperatures and weather patterns which can plants which are already stressed by the above over the edge


Just some things to think about.
zephyr  (OP)

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02/20/2011 06:59 PM
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Re: Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died
I would say the odds of the palmettos surviving is at least 70%, given they are mature, well established trees already. The younger ones might not be so lucky.

If you look at one of the fronds and notice stippling discoloration, there might be a possibility of air pollution. However, given the short time frame which this occurred, that is very unlikely.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1001653


Okay that could be true that they are basically hybernating right now. We were told not to trim anything because those damaged leaves were actually protecting the trunk so I have not touched them.

Thank you for your answer that gives me some hope...
Live and let live.......really
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2011 07:03 PM
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Re: Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died
I would say the odds of the palmettos surviving is at least 70%, given they are mature, well established trees already. The younger ones might not be so lucky.

If you look at one of the fronds and notice stippling discoloration, there might be a possibility of air pollution. However, given the short time frame which this occurred, that is very unlikely.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1001653


Okay that could be true that they are basically hybernating right now. We were told not to trim anything because those damaged leaves were actually protecting the trunk so I have not touched them.

Thank you for your answer that gives me some hope...
 Quoting: zephyr


Are these trees native to the area or were they brought in and established by the city council, etc in the last few decades?

My bet is that all non native plants and trees are dead.
zephyr  (OP)

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02/20/2011 07:05 PM
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Re: Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died
Daisey and Canada,
I have been reading glp for 10 years, I am well aware of all that you both mention.

I really do not want to go there yet......

While reading about it is entertaining I am not ready to start living it as in your face so i have to hold out hope that come spring things will come back and I can say okay I think we are still okay

If you have read enough of glp as I have you will understand my not wanting to go there until it is undeniable
know what i mean? :-)

a certain amount of healthy skepticism is still my lifestyle and I am happy by nature and healthy because of it dont want to change any of that unles forced....:-0
Live and let live.......really
zephyr  (OP)

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02/20/2011 07:08 PM
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Re: Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1001653


Are these trees native to the area or were they brought in and established by the city council, etc in the last few decades?

My bet is that all non native plants and trees are dead.
 Quoting: zephyr


No they are not and I have entertained this thought as well and my 14 year old said the same thing, she said quote, the native plants look fine, everything else looks dead...
Live and let live.......really
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2011 07:19 PM
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Re: Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died
Daisey and Canada,
I have been reading glp for 10 years, I am well aware of all that you both mention.

I really do not want to go there yet......

While reading about it is entertaining I am not ready to start living it as in your face so i have to hold out hope that come spring things will come back and I can say okay I think we are still okay

If you have read enough of glp as I have you will understand my not wanting to go there until it is undeniable
know what i mean? :-)

a certain amount of healthy skepticism is still my lifestyle and I am happy by nature and healthy because of it dont want to change any of that unles forced....:-0
 Quoting: zephyr


Understood. You maybe find that some of it indeed does come back during the spring. But the growth/health trends of the plants now is unfortunately quite much in decline, and that decline is quickly accelerating and becoming more pronounced. But I respect your not wanting to go there until you have to.
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2011 07:28 PM
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Re: Any Palm Tree or Vegetation experts out there? My entire cities vegetation looks to have died
yes an early thaw and a late freeze can also kill entire crops

was so warm last week here, a wasp was in my house

but this morning sleet/ freezing rain

sometimes these plants think its spring, start to bloom, then freeze and die damned





GLP