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Are Google, Apple & Adobe deliberately trying to sabotage Flash®?

 
ShaneCMuir  (OP)

User ID: 1295381
Australia
03/14/2011 03:33 AM
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Re: Are Google, Apple & Adobe deliberately trying to sabotage Flash®?
I have been thinking about it.. and I have decided to change the name of this thread to include both Apple and Adobe.

Now the full scope of the conspiracy can be discussed.
ShaneCMuir  (OP)

User ID: 1295381
Australia
03/14/2011 10:32 AM
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Re: Are Google, Apple & Adobe deliberately trying to sabotage Flash®?
I have adjusted the test page a little bit more.
[link to trilogymedia.com.au]

I thought it was important to make a distinction between browsers that have AppleWebKit.. and those that don't.

The results speak for themselves.

The error rate for any browser with AppleWebKit is over 50%.

The error rate for any browser WITHOUT AppleWebKit is 0%
Zod
User ID: 1282158
Australia
03/14/2011 12:59 PM
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Re: Are Google, Apple & Adobe deliberately trying to sabotage Flash®?
I have adjusted the test page a little bit more.
[link to trilogymedia.com.au]

I thought it was important to make a distinction between browsers that have AppleWebKit.. and those that don't.

The results speak for themselves.

The error rate for any browser with AppleWebKit is over 50%.

The error rate for any browser WITHOUT AppleWebKit is 0%
 Quoting: ShaneCMuir


I'd just call it WebKit, Apple didn't invent it. WebKit is based on KHTML/KJS from the KDE project. I think Apple just added more crap to it and called it AppleWebKit.

[link to www.webkit.org]



Here is a list of browsers using Webkit:

Arora Web Browser
BOLT browser
Google Chrome
Epiphany (web browser)
iCab (version 4 uses WebKit; earlier versions used its own rendering engine)
Iris Browser
Konqueror (version 4 can use WebKit as an alternative to its native KHTML)
Midori
OmniWeb
Origyn Web Browser (OWB)
Safari
Shiira (OSX)
Sputnik for MorphOS (based on S60 WebCore)
SRWare Iron
Stainless (OSX)
Uzbl (Browser for S60, used in all Nokia Symbian smartphones)
WebOS (Palm Pre mobile)
WebPositive (browser in Haiku)



Just out of interest, here are some browsers running Gecko:

Gnuzilla GNU's fork SeaMonkey (same browser as Firefox)
Yahoo! Browser
K-Meleon for Windows
Mozilla Firefox
Flock
XeroBank
Camino (OSX)
Conkeror
Fennec (mobile)
Skyfire (mobile)
MicroB (Maemo)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 360613
United States
03/14/2011 01:09 PM
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Re: Are Google, Apple & Adobe deliberately trying to sabotage Flash®?
Is ShaneCMuir Deliberately Trying to Save Flash®?

Despite its less than optimal performance, huge security flaws, it's ability to single handedly cripple processor speed, it appears as though ShaneCMuir is trying to justify using Flash®. The direct competitors to Flash® all run much smoother and are readily available. Adobe still can't provide a viable mobile alternative to the market and is constantly pushing back release dates with promises that it will be just around the corner. Clearly ShameCMuir is in a choke hold by Flash®, the unnecessary video player that has a monopoly to run ALL VIDEO CONTENT on your computer. Why does ShaneCMuir NOT want to bypass Flash® and move forward with the next HTML5 standard which will allow for /video tags to be in place, circumventing the need for constant flash updates, slow browsers due to suboptimal performance, and a bottle neck in every movie on the internet. Clearly ShaneCMuir is a douche who know's not what he is protesting about.
Zod
User ID: 1282158
Australia
03/14/2011 01:32 PM
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Re: Are Google, Apple & Adobe deliberately trying to sabotage Flash®?
Is ShaneCMuir Deliberately Trying to Save Flash®?

Despite its less than optimal performance, huge security flaws, it's ability to single handedly cripple processor speed, it appears as though ShaneCMuir is trying to justify using Flash®. The direct competitors to Flash® all run much smoother and are readily available. Adobe still can't provide a viable mobile alternative to the market and is constantly pushing back release dates with promises that it will be just around the corner. Clearly ShameCMuir is in a choke hold by Flash®, the unnecessary video player that has a monopoly to run ALL VIDEO CONTENT on your computer. Why does ShaneCMuir NOT want to bypass Flash® and move forward with the next HTML5 standard which will allow for /video tags to be in place, circumventing the need for constant flash updates, slow browsers due to suboptimal performance, and a bottle neck in every movie on the internet. Clearly ShaneCMuir is a douche who know's not what he is protesting about.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 360613


I personally have no love for Flash and wish it would go away (HTML5/WebGL is the way to go). Gentoo Linux being my primary OS, it's one of the few closed source programs on my machine. Almost everything else is compiled from source.

I believe this to be a NetKit bug that just happens to get triggered by flash, I'm sure there are other triggers. My interest is in this is simply bugfix related.

I think Shane's interest is in problems with webkit based browsers (particularly Chrome) have with pre-existing websites sine there are many using the Flash platform, not just movies, but games etc.
ShaneCMuir  (OP)

User ID: 1300384
Australia
03/16/2011 11:36 PM
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Re: Are Google, Apple & Adobe deliberately trying to sabotage Flash®?
Is ShaneCMuir Deliberately Trying to Save Flash®?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 360613


Yes.. of course I am.

I am a Flash® programmer so I am a stake-holder.

I also watch out for conspiracies..

Thats why I come to godlike.. and this particular one is a beauty.

Adobe deliberately destroying Flash® from within?

.. mind boggling!

Also.. HTML5 sucks!!

It will be years before HTML5 can do a fraction of what Flash® can do.

..and its SO tedious to program.. just like SVG always was.

Last Edited by ShaneCMuir on 03/16/2011 11:37 PM
ShaneCMuir  (OP)

User ID: 1300384
Australia
03/16/2011 11:45 PM
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Re: Are Google, Apple & Adobe deliberately trying to sabotage Flash®?
I believe this to be a NetKit bug that just happens to get triggered by flash, I'm sure there are other triggers. My interest is in this is simply bugfix related.
 Quoting: Zod 1282158


If they fixed the bug.. then I would not have anything to complain about.

(except for Flash® not being in IPhones or IPads)

(..and ActionScript3 by Adobe of course)

What I do not want to do is go back through years worth of websites that I have programmed and track down and replace any code that is affected by this bug.

Squeeky wheel gets the oil.

Squeek
Squeek
ShaneCMuir  (OP)

User ID: 1300384
Australia
03/16/2011 11:53 PM
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Re: Are Google, Apple & Adobe deliberately trying to sabotage Flash®?
Here is a list of browsers using Webkit:

Arora Web Browser
BOLT browser
Google Chrome
Epiphany (web browser)
iCab (version 4 uses WebKit; earlier versions used its own rendering engine)
Iris Browser
Konqueror (version 4 can use WebKit as an alternative to its native KHTML)
Midori
OmniWeb
Origyn Web Browser (OWB)
Safari
Shiira (OSX)
Sputnik for MorphOS (based on S60 WebCore)
SRWare Iron
Stainless (OSX)
Uzbl (Browser for S60, used in all Nokia Symbian smartphones)
WebOS (Palm Pre mobile)
WebPositive (browser in Haiku)
 Quoting: Zod 1282158


Its the percentages that matter to me.

If you take Chrome out of this list.. then I wouldnt have a worry in the world.

I would tell my client not to worry.. 99% of the people can see the site without an error.

I wouldnt re-code for 1%.

Funny enoogh..Safari running on an Apple computer works fine.

The rest of those browsers.. and Linux systems.. would not ad up to 1% of regular traffic.
ShaneCMuir  (OP)

User ID: 1300384
Australia
03/17/2011 12:14 AM
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Re: Are Google, Apple & Adobe deliberately trying to sabotage Flash®?
It doesnt really matter what browser you have or what OS you are using though..

I would still love everyone to go to my test page and see what results you get..

At the moment NON-AppleWebKit browsers have a 0% error rate while AppleWebKit browsers have a 45% error rate.

If you get a result that contradicts with those statistics then I definitely want to know about it.

Going to my test page might even change which browser you decide to use.

[link to trilogymedia.com.au]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1300419
United States
03/17/2011 12:22 AM
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Re: Are Google, Apple & Adobe deliberately trying to sabotage Flash®?
Someone, who has a nice powerful computer and is using Chrome, sat there and pushed refresh on my test page about 80 times on a row.

Because they were consistantly getting zero errors.. they changed the stats from 20 sucessful chrome loads to 100.

To push the refresh 80 times.. you gotta have a reason to do so.
 Quoting: ShaneCMuir


FYI, if there is something equivalent to the Firefox iMacro addon for Chrome, then they could have done the refreshes with a macro. They could have put a paperweight on the F5 key too.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1300419
United States
03/17/2011 12:26 AM
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Re: Are Google, Apple & Adobe deliberately trying to sabotage Flash®?
It doesnt really matter what browser you have or what OS you are using though..

I would still love everyone to go to my test page and see what results you get..

At the moment NON-AppleWebKit browsers have a 0% error rate while AppleWebKit browsers have a 45% error rate.

If you get a result that contradicts with those statistics then I definitely want to know about it.

Going to my test page might even change which browser you decide to use.

[link to trilogymedia.com.au]
 Quoting: ShaneCMuir


To answer your question, Steve Jobs is still butthurt over Adobe not having a OSX version of Photoshop ready in time for the OSX launch about 10 or so years ago.

He also likes to force people to buy games through Apple instead of play them on the Web. He says that Flash is a resource hog and that it drains battery life in portable devices, which is true. Google agrees, but allows Android devices running ARM 7 processors to run Flash. Apple, however, does everything they can to stop Flash from working properly.

TL;DR?
Jobs is an asshole.
ShaneCMuir  (OP)

User ID: 1300384
Australia
03/17/2011 12:49 AM
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Re: Are Google, Apple & Adobe deliberately trying to sabotage Flash®?
To answer your question, Steve Jobs is still butthurt over Adobe not having a OSX version of Photoshop ready in time for the OSX launch about 10 or so years ago.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1300419


Don't fall for the mainstram version of events.

Adobe and Apple arent enemies.

Just like Freemasons and Catholics were never enemies.

Freemasons and Catholics have always been together on the main issues.. like detroying Christianity

Adobe and Apple are together on the main issues too.. like destroying Flash®
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1281458
United States
03/17/2011 12:51 AM
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Re: Are Google, Apple & Adobe deliberately trying to sabotage Flash®?
They don't have to "sabotage" it; flash sucks on its own merit.
ShaneCMuir
User ID: 1300384
Australia
03/17/2011 03:37 AM
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Re: Are Google, Apple & Adobe deliberately trying to sabotage Flash®?
They don't have to "sabotage" it; flash sucks on its own merit.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1281458


you prefer animated gif's???

As the ultimate web tool.. nothing comes close to Flash!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1287778
Vietnam
03/17/2011 03:40 AM
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Re: Are Google, Apple & Adobe deliberately trying to sabotage Flash®?
IE9 is so fun .
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1287778
Vietnam
03/17/2011 03:41 AM
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Re: Are Google, Apple & Adobe deliberately trying to sabotage Flash®?
adobe can't sabotage flash because it has flas professional product.
alphaprime

User ID: 1177012
United States
03/17/2011 03:42 AM
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Re: Are Google, Apple & Adobe deliberately trying to sabotage Flash®?
Playing farmville?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1287541
Australia
03/17/2011 03:48 AM
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Re: Are Google, Apple & Adobe deliberately trying to sabotage Flash®?
Google hates small businesses and flash. So, if anyone wants to jazz up their website with a bit o flash....death to your google ranking.
 Quoting: Future History


Some people put their whole site in flash!!! But then, how can the google spider bot read their site?? Spider bots can't read flash!!! So of course their rankings plummet if they go sticking everything in flash!!!! TEXT is the way to go, that's the stuff that the spider bots can index!!!!!!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1191571
Netherlands
03/17/2011 04:02 AM
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Re: Are Google, Apple & Adobe deliberately trying to sabotage Flash®?
Tried it out, Chrome on Mac here, results are very irregular.
Not a Flash problem...
ShaneCMuir
User ID: 1300749
Australia
03/17/2011 07:08 AM
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Re: Are Google, Apple & Adobe deliberately trying to sabotage Flash®?
Some people put their whole site in flash!!! But then, how can the google spider bot read their site?? Spider bots can't read flash!!! So of course their rankings plummet if they go sticking everything in flash!!!! TEXT is the way to go, that's the stuff that the spider bots can index!!!!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1287541


Since Macromedia released Flash as open source a few years ago Google have been able to read (look inside) Flash files.. but they still dont do it.

But I worked out a way around that using HTML landing pages.

I have built many sites 100% in Flash.. but Google still ranks them no problems.
ShaneCMuir
User ID: 1300749
Australia
03/17/2011 07:11 AM
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Re: Are Google, Apple & Adobe deliberately trying to sabotage Flash®?
Tried it out, Chrome on Mac here, results are very irregular.
Not a Flash problem...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1191571


No.. its not flash.. its AppleWebKit!!

Check out the stats at the bottom left hand side of the page:
[link to trilogymedia.com.au]
ShaneCMuir
User ID: 1300749
Australia
03/17/2011 07:19 AM
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Re: Are Google, Apple & Adobe deliberately trying to sabotage Flash®?
adobe can't sabotage flash because it has flas professional product.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1287778


Thats the best way to sabotage a product.

Buy it!!

Microsoft turned that method into an art form.

Adobe are well on the way to destroying Flash with ActionScript version 3.
ShaneCMuir
User ID: 1300749
Australia
03/17/2011 09:46 AM
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Re: Are Google, Apple & Adobe deliberately trying to sabotage Flash®?
I have fixed up the page a bit more.

I had already established that if an AppleWebKit browser attempted to read the width and height of an imported image it would fail about 50% of the time.. a toss of the coin..

But how does that relate to a successful page load?

Chrome fails to load this page correctly 83% of the time
I.E. fails to load this page correctly 0% of the time
Firefox fails to load this page correctly 0% of the time

The statistics speak for themselves.

There has already been over a thousand loads of my test page.. thanks to godlike.. but the more people, with different browsers, that go there the more obvious it will be how bad Chrome and AppleWebKit really are.

[link to trilogymedia.com.au]
ShaneCMuir
User ID: 1300749
Australia
03/17/2011 10:51 AM
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Re: Are Google, Apple & Adobe deliberately trying to sabotage Flash®?
bump
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1222454
Italy
03/17/2011 10:57 AM
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Re: Are Google, Apple & Adobe deliberately trying to sabotage Flash®?
Is Steve Jobs still fighting cancer....oh..I mean he is still in da bunker?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1128782
United States
03/17/2011 10:59 AM
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Re: Are Google, Apple & Adobe deliberately trying to sabotage Flash®?
Wow holy shit your right! I cant see anything from your site.

Oh wait im on my ipad nm.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1283417
United States
03/17/2011 11:00 AM
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Re: Are Google, Apple & Adobe deliberately trying to sabotage Flash®?
heres the thing, this is what its all about..
they want video you cannot change options on , that you cannot get information on the url of the vide stream, that you cannot bring to full screen, that you cannot skip past or block adverts/

thats all they want,, power and control/ like the tv/.





GLP