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The idiots even used DU on the Pentagon

 
rrick
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08/21/2005 02:44 AM
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The idiots even used DU on the Pentagon
Radiation Expert Claims High-Radiation Readings Near Pentagon After 9/11 Indicate Depleted Uranium Used; High-Ranking Army Officer Claims Missile Used at Pentagon, Not Commercial Airliner
Two high profile radiation experts concur Pentagon strike involved use of a missile. Also Geiger counter readings right after the attack shows high levels of radiation 12 miles away from Pentagon crash site.
August 18, 2005

By Greg Szymanski



A radiation expert and high-ranking Army Major, who once headed the military’s depleted uranium project, both contend the Pentagon was hit by missile, not a commercial jetliner, adding high radiation readings after the strike indicate depleted uranium also may have been used.



“I’m not an explosives or crash site expert, but I am highly knowledgeable in causes and effects related to nuclear radiation contamination. What happened at the Pentagon is highly suspicious, leading me to believe a missile with a depleted uranium warhead may have been used,” said radiation expert Leuren Moret in a telephone conversation this week from her Berkeley, CA home.



Moret, who has spent a life time working in the nuclear field, first as a staff scientist at the Livermore Nuclear Weapons Laboratory in California, is now a member of The Radiation and Public Health Project (RPHP), a privately funded group studying the devastating effects of depleted uranium especially in Iraq and Afghanistan.



Regarding the missile theory, it is also backed up by retired Army Maj. Doug Rokke, a PhD educational physics and former top military expert banished from the Pentagon after the military failed to follow regulations regarding the use, clean up and medical treatment regarding the use of depleted uranium.



“When you look at the whole thing, especially the crash site void of airplane parts, the size of the hole left in the building and the fact the projectile’s impact penetrated numerous concrete walls, it looks like the work of a missile,” said Maj. Rokke from his Rantoul, IL home this week. “And when you look at the damage, it was obviously a missile. Also, if you look at the WTC and the disturbing flash hitting the tower right before the impact of the airplane, it also looks like a missile was used.”



And to prove the government’s jetliner theory is wrong, Moret said the quick actions of a friend near the Pentagon on the morning of 9/11, provide even more suspicion.



Moret recalls on the tragic morning that once she saw the jetliner strike the twin towers and then heard about the Pentagon crash, she immediately called a close friend in Alexandria VA, Dr. Janette Sherman.



Thinking radiation might be involved, she quickly asked Dr. Sherman, 77, a radiation expert and medical doctor who lived about 12 miles from the crash site, to get a Geiger counter reading.



What the pair of experts found is astonishing. What they found is not only astonishing but four years after 9/11, what’s even more incredible is that their findings have been completely ignored by most everyone, including the Bush administration, the 9/11 Commission and the mainstream media, all who appear more interested in rubber stamping the official 9/11 story then getting at the real truth.



“Dr. Sherman was downwind from the Pentagon on 9/11 and her Geiger counter readings show an extremely high reading, a reading of more than eight to ten times higher than normal,” said Moret, also an expert in the cause and effects of depleted uranium.



“Dr. Sherman, who is well-respected radiation expert herself, then went about contacting the proper authorities in order to try and alert emergency responders of the radiation risk at the Pentagon crash site. And we have also kept photos of the Geiger counter readings in order to verify what Dr. Sherman found 12 miles away.”



After notifying the Nuclear Industrial Safety Agency (NIRS), experts from the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the FBI were alerted and according to Moret, radiation experts later confirmed high radiation levels at the Pentagon crash site possibly from the presence from depleted uranium or other unknown causes.



But what disturbed Moret most has been the Bush administration’s lack of concern and its failure to mount a thorough investigation into what really caused the high radiation levels, saying perhaps the findings might reveal something contrary to the official story that a jetliner rammed through 12 Pentagon walls of solid concrete.



“Even if there was depleted uranium used, do you think the likes of Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld would really care? These are bottom feeders that 20 or 30 years ago wouldn’t have been even allowed to set foot in such high positions of power,” said Moret.



Although Dr. Sherman’s Geiger counter can’t be a conclusive finding, another nuclear radiation expert, Marion Fulk, agrees the positive reading, if anything, is suspicious.



“It definitely looks suspicious but of course many factors have to be considered before a conclusion is reached,” said Fulk in a telephone conversation this week. “The type of Geiger counter used by Dr. Sherman needs to be looked at as well as the possibility of the true source of the radiation, whether it is depleted uranium in a missile, ballast in the airplane or within the structure of the building hit.”



Even though no one can be sure, one thing positive is the Bush administration never really seriously cared about addressing the possibility of depleted uranium at the Pentagon just like it cares little about the same problem at the World Trade Center and in the war fields of Iraq and Afghanistan.



And, more recently, Moret, Fulk and Maj. Rokke, along with Dennis Kyne, Bob Jones and Mark Zeller, have provided documentation for an explosive video written and produced by Joyce Riley and William Lewis called “Beyond Treason,” providing an in depth look at depleted uranium used in the Gulf Wars and its likelihood of causing numerous civilian and military illnesses.



“It has been determined that the equivalent of more than 400,000 Nagasaki bombs has been released in the middle east since 1991,” said Moret, citing a report and subsequent speech at a 2000 depleted uranium conference given by Professor Yagasaki, a physicist and well-respected nuclear radiation expert.



And in the 89 minute video, exploring a massive government cover up, Riley and Lewis point out the unexplained illnesses in civilians and military personal may be the cause of depleted uranium or perhaps a combination of overlapping causes, including chemical and biological exposure and the use of experimental vaccines.



The writers of Beyond Treason, added:



“The ailing Gulf War heroes from all 27 coalition countries slowly die from of “unknown causes,” they wait for answers from their respective governments, but no satisfying or even credible answers have come forth from the military establishment. Records that span over a decade point to negligence and even culpability on the part of the U.S. Department of Defense and their ‘disposable army” mentality.



“The VA has determined that 250,000 troops are now permanently disabled, 15,000 troops are dead and over 425,000 are ill and slowly dying from what the Department of Defense still calls a mystery disease. How many more will have to die before action is taken?”



And in February, 2004, a conference called “Dialogues with Decision Makers” was held in New Delhi, India, where a group of experts gathered for the prevention of nuclear war and looked closely at the depleted uranium problem in the Middle East.



Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat, former chief of the Naval Staff in India, reported the following shocking details about the effects of depleted uranium:



“In the 2003 war, the Iraqi’s were subjected to the Pentagon’s radioactive arsenal, mainly in the urban centers, unlike in the deserts in 1991. The aggregate effects of illnesses and long term disabilities and genetic birth defects will be apparent only 2008 onwards.

“By now, half of all the 697,000 US soldiers involved in the 1991 war have reported serious illnesses. According the American Gulf War Veterans Association, more than 30% of these soldiers are chronically ill, and receiving disability benefits from the Veterans Administration.

“Near the Republican Palace where US troops stood guard and over 1000 employees walked in and out, the radiation readings were the hottest in Iraq, at nearly 1900 times background radiation levels.

“At a roadside stand, selling fresh bunches of parsley, mint, and onions, children played on a burnt out Iraqi tank just outside Baghdad, the Geiger counter registered 1000 times normal background radiation.

“The Pentagon and the United Nations estimate that the US and Britain used 1,100 to 2,200 tons of armor piercing shells made of DU during attacks in March-April 2003, far more than the 1991 Gulf War (this does not include air dispensed DU munitions and missiles),” wrote the Post Intelligencer.

“The long term effects, as Dr Asaf Durakovic elaborates, after the early neurological symptoms are cancer, and related radiation illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome, joint and muscle pain, neurological and/or nerve damage, mood disturbances, auto-immune deficiencies, lung and kidney damage, vision problems, skin rupture, increase in miscarriages, maternal mortality and genetic birth defects/deformation.

“For years the US government described the Gulf War Syndrome as a post traumatic stress disorder. It was labeled as a psychological problem or simply as mysterious unrelated ailments much in the same way as health problems of Vietnam veterans suffering from Agent Orange poisoning.”



For more informative articles, go to www.arcticbeacon.com.

Greg Szymanski

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Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:08 AM
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Re: The idiots even used DU on the Pentagon
hiding
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:08 AM
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Re: The idiots even used DU on the Pentagon
You are a fucking IDIOT Prrick ! IMHO !
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:08 AM
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Re: The idiots even used DU on the Pentagon
"You are a fucking IDIOT Prrick ! IMHO !"

And you are a brainwashed bushy follower?
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:08 AM
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Re: The idiots even used DU on the Pentagon
DC, ha good for them, get a small taste what our troops are getting, but it will take some time for it to come out if there was enough....though a little seems to much.
zazzman  (OP)

12/08/2005 10:08 AM
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Re: The idiots even used DU on the Pentagon
It was the counter weights in the tail of the aircraft dumbass!!!


You get 10 bsflag Flags!!!
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:08 AM
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Re: The idiots even used DU on the Pentagon
bump
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:08 AM
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Re: The idiots even used DU on the Pentagon
blahblah
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:08 AM
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Re: The idiots even used DU on the Pentagon
zazzman,

“Boeing has never used DU on either the 757 or the 767, and we no longer use it on the 747,” Leslie M. Nichols, product spokesperson for Boeing’s 767, told AFP. “Sometime ago, we switched to tungsten, because it is heavier, more readily available and more cost effective.”


"DU is used in a wide variety of missiles in the U.S. arsenal as an armor penetrator. It is also used in the bunker-buster bombs and cruise missiles. Because no photographic evidence of a Boeing 757 hitting the Pentagon is available to the public, 9-11 skeptics and independent researchers claim something else, such as a missile, struck the Pentagon.

A white flash, not unlike those seen in videos of the planes as they struck the twin towers, occurs when a DU penetrator hits a target.

Photographs from the Pentagon reveal that large round holes were punched through six walls in the three outer rings. The outside wall is 24 inches thick with a six-inch limestone exterior, eight inches of brick and 10 inches of steel reinforced concrete; the other walls are 18 inches thick.

The object that hit the Pentagon on 9-11 penetrated several feet of reinforced concrete, leaving holes with diameters between 11 and 16 feet."

[link to www.americanfreepress.net]
Nevaeh (NLI)  (OP)

12/08/2005 10:08 AM
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Re: The idiots even used DU on the Pentagon
Thanks for posting this rrick.
I went out online & read some other peoples sites who had pictures & statements of what they have found in their research. I have to say it sure makes alot of sense.
But what is bewildering to me is that people takes someone elses word for it instead of going to take a look & come to their own conclusions. And they always hop right in, with name calling, BEFORE they even check it out. I don´t understand that logic.
I realize that oppinions are like assholes & we all have one but that doesn´t mean that we their is some contest to see who IS the BIGGEST asshole. cow It´s just an oppinion you all! It won´t make you bigger or littler to allow someone else to have an oppinion! It´s just an oppinion!!!

On another note ~ wouldn´t the people that were near when the explosion hit the pentagon be suffering from the effects of DU by now?
Does anyone have any information on the people that were in the building or the firefighters that fought the fires in any of the 9/11 acts???
How would one go about finding out about THESE people?
If it was DU then shouldn´t the people who were in the area begin to show symptoms of such a thing?
Have you heard anything on any of the people near any of these that are beginning to show signs?
How long does it take before the effects become noticable?
Sorry lots of questions but I am really curious & I would like to come to my OWN conclusions AFTER taking a look at the evidence that is available.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:08 AM
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Re: The idiots even used DU on the Pentagon
A little debunker common sense-

A hole 11-16 feet in diameter? If a missle, you´re talking about something as big as a Saturn 5.

Tungsten cheaper than DU? Not on this planet.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:08 AM
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Re: The idiots even used DU on the Pentagon
"more cost effective.”

The Boeing representative did not say "cheaper."

The exact words were "more cost effective."

This means when they take all risk management, transportation, liability, and handling considerations in to account tungston could very well be "more cost effective."

They also have to consider all of the above with respect to disposal after the life cycle of the plane is expended. Permanent, secure, disposal for a radioactive material with a half life of 4.5 billion years is probably a bit pricey.

When you figure all of the above in tungston is probably "more cost effective."
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:08 AM
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Re: The idiots even used DU on the Pentagon
The Boeing rep also said "heavier" and thats bullshit too. Since when did Boeing give a hoot about anything but the bottom line?
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:08 AM
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Re: The idiots even used DU on the Pentagon
"A hole 11-16 feet in diameter? If a missle, you´re talking about something as big as a Saturn 5."


"The Saturn V is arguably one of the most impressive machines in human history. Over 110 m high and 10 m in diameter..."
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

That´s about 33 feet in diameter. I think we can rule out the Saturn V theory.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:08 AM
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Re: The idiots even used DU on the Pentagon
Check the 2nd or 3rd stage diameters. This was not a theory, just a comparison.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:08 AM
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Re: The idiots even used DU on the Pentagon
The density of Depleted Uranium is 18.95 gcc.

The density of Tungsten is 19.25 gcc.

Tungsten is heavier than Depleted Uranium.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:08 AM
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Re: The idiots even used DU on the Pentagon
Evidence That A Boeing 757 Really Did Impact the Pentagon on 9/11
[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:08 AM
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Re: The idiots even used DU on the Pentagon
Shells made of tungsten are mixed with other alloys. The blokes got it up as high as 17 gm/cc with their WA alloy. The army notched it up to 18.5 with the XM578 shell. Du as per Wikipedia goes 18.9-19.04 .
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:08 AM
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Re: The idiots even used DU on the Pentagon
I find it highly unlikely that a reading of radiation 12 miles away can be said to definitively come from a specific location. Are there no other possible sources in 12 miles?
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:08 AM
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Re: The idiots even used DU on the Pentagon
764,

Agreed. Comparrison not theory.

When you consider the way in which steel reinforced concrete and masonry structures fail in response to impact loads it´s possible that the diameter of the hole will be larger than the diameter of the object hitting it.

A good example is if you have ever watched a 3 foot diameter wrecking ball hit a brick or a concrete wall, the hole it makes is larger than the diameter of the wrecking ball itself.

I´ve observed cases where a 3 foot diameter wrecking ball will take out 10 to 15 feet of masonry wall with one strike, sometimes more.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:08 AM
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Re: The idiots even used DU on the Pentagon
I had a brick wall that could be pushed over by hand. hiding


The bigger question is, How much DU would be required to raise the radioactivity 10X at 12 miles? What could carry that much DU?

Why haven´t 747 crashes been reported as causing major radioactive contamination?
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:08 AM
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Re: The idiots even used DU on the Pentagon
11279,

Good question.

I´m not a radiation expert so I´m not sure as to the degree of certainty that radiation readings can be pinned down at distance.

Being downwind Dr.Sherman was probably picking up an increase in the amount of airborne radioactive particulate matter.

As I recall from reading, Moret´s speciallity is tracking airborne particulate matter, and radioactive particles specifically.

Dr. Sherman reports geiger counter readings at 8 to 10 times the normal amount downwind 12 miles from the Pentagon on 9/11/2001.

The passage below is disturbing as Dr. Sherman made the appropriate notifications after taking readings. It also indicates that other radiation experts corroborated her findings at the crash site itself.

“Dr. Sherman, who is well-respected radiation expert herself, then went about contacting the proper authorities in order to try and alert emergency responders of the radiation risk at the Pentagon crash site. And we have also kept photos of the Geiger counter readings in order to verify what Dr. Sherman found 12 miles away.”

After notifying the Nuclear Industrial Safety Agency (NIRS), experts from the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the FBI were alerted and according to Moret, radiation experts later confirmed high radiation levels at the Pentagon crash site possibly from the presence from depleted uranium or other unknown causes."
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:08 AM
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"Why haven´t 747 crashes been reported as causing major radioactive contamination?"

764,

That´s also part of the cost effectiveness statement made by the Boeing representative with repect to tungsten vs. DU.

The liability and public relations costs could be large at 747 crash sites.

With respect to crash sites it´s probably never been thought about - Boeing didn´t publicize that they were using DU counterweights on the 747. So it was easy to hush up for awhile.

If you Google "Boeing 747+DU counterweights" you will get numerous hits concerning crash site contamination.

Found the following interesting clip:

[link to www.nrc.gov]
Clip:
"The 747 airplane program utilized DU weights for mass

balance of outboard elevator and upper rudder assemblies on

the first 550 aircraft built. This equates to

approximately 12,000 cast parts and a total mass of DU in

excess of 200 tons. Depending upon the model, each

aircraft had either 21 or 31 weights. At each major

aircraft overhaul (about 4 to 5 years), it was anticipated

that over 20% of these weights would be corroded to where

they required reprocessing. This condition was considered

to present an unnecessary maintenance burden on the 747

operators. Aside from the high corrosion rate, the weights

were extremely difficult to transport with only one

recognized reprocessing source in the world."
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:08 AM
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Re: The idiots even used DU on the Pentagon
I did search that 43. Averaging @1000lbs of du per plane, where is the contamination? Is Tenerife closed? Has Lockerbie been evacuated?
Now the Pentagon and everything 12 miles downwind are contaminated?
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:08 AM
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Re: The idiots even used DU on the Pentagon
If DU was released the sites should be contaminated. It looks like a cover-up to me.

It will probably take and independent team of radiation experts to actually verify the presence of DU at these sites.

Clip from and article concerning a 747 crash in Halifax, NS:

Depleted Uranium Released During Canadian Plane Crash
Little-Known Use of DU in Commercial Jets Exposed
By Christopher Bollyn

"In 1988, American physicist Robert L. Parker wrote that in the worst-case scenario, the crash of a Boeing 747 could affect the health of 250,000 people through exposure to uranium oxide particles. “Extended tests by the Navy and NASA showed that the temperature of the fireball in a plane crash can reach 1,200 degrees Celsius. Such temperatures are high enough to cause very rapid oxidation of depleted uranium,” he wrote.

“Large pieces of uranium will oxidize rapidly and will sustain slow combustion when heated in air to temperatures of about 500 degrees Celsius,” Paul Lowenstein, technical director and vice-president of Nuclear Metals Inc., the company that has supplied DU to Boeing, wrote in a 1993 article."

[link to www.americanfreepress.net]

The link below is to a long article about a 747 crash in Amsterdam. It´s apparent in the article that the authorities were more interested in convincing people they were safe rather than verifying and evaluating DU contamination and its extent.
[link to www.laka.org]
nomuse (nli)  (OP)

12/08/2005 10:08 AM
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Re: The idiots even used DU on the Pentagon
Just got into this whole DU counterweight thing. I am pleased to discover official recognition that DU counterweights exist in commercial aircraft:

[link to ash.faa.gov]

For a bit there this was looking like an urban legend. DU armor, such as on some heavy-armor variant Abrams tanks, is not in question.

However, none of this is particularly indicative of what caused the elevated radiation levels observed by Dr. Sherman -- and I am disturbed by the seeming lack of official interest in his observations.
iVdQTHuTbddZ
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06/18/2008 03:34 PM
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Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2008 03:46 PM
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Re: The idiots even used DU on the Pentagon
dumbass bsflag



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Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2008 04:13 PM
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Re: The idiots even used DU on the Pentagon
So along with all his other faults, Szymanski is admitting that he is too stupid to know that DU was used in heavies as trim counter-weights?
Bastiaan
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Sint Maarten (Dutch part)
09/05/2009 03:13 AM
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Re: The idiots even used DU on the Pentagon
Badly need your help. Your parents, they give you your life, but then they try to give you their life.
I am from Romania and also now teach English, please tell me right I wrote the following sentence: "Generally, also, lenny and his reversals happens other funds on max to make them the price."

Thanks :D. Bastiaan.





GLP