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Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........

 
Anonymous Coward
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04/03/2011 08:14 AM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
How do you figure that Paul never met Jesus? Paul was trained for his ministry by the RISEN Christ.

Also, the NIV version is a paraphrase and not an actual translation.

That's all I'm gonna say....
VivianV  (OP)

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04/03/2011 08:15 AM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
Your argument is entirely a philosophical one.

Let me ask you something: Would you write and publish a book half written by your enemy?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 992437


I wouldn't, but if someone wanted to use a powerful person who died to get power THEY probably would.

Paul may not have had bad/evil intentions and really thought he was "chosen," but i just don't trust his words as I trust the sayings/words/teachings of the actual teacher Jesus, and alot of teachings from the church are from Paul instead of Jesus...... Paulians, just like i said.
Life without learning is like a flower without scent.
Anonymous Coward
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04/03/2011 08:17 AM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
I like your post OP. I never can understand how a man can trust the words of another man which claims to be speaking for God.
And it also is baffling that the ones who killed Jezus are the principle organizers of his religion. And no one cares.
There is a new tv series 'the Borgias', maybe you like it.
Judethz
Israel is Eternal

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04/03/2011 08:17 AM

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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
:blinker; then along comes VivianV...2Cr 11:15 Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works

You really need to repent while you are still blessed with a little time OP.
 Quoting: Judethz


Aww, well I was christian for 19 years, until I realized something wasn't right.....
 Quoting: VivianV


beacht9 And something still ain't right.
Anonymous Coward
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04/03/2011 08:18 AM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
Paul was right


shut your mouth woman and fix me a sammich
VivianV  (OP)

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04/03/2011 08:19 AM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
How do you figure that Paul never met Jesus? Paul was trained for his ministry by the RISEN Christ.

Also, the NIV version is a paraphrase and not an actual translation.

That's all I'm gonna say....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1285690


What? Paul never PHYSICALLY met Jesus, only SPIRITUALLY. Paul never HEARD teachings of Jesus, just killed those who followed Jesus. He was trained by whom?

And the NIV is definitely not paraphrase, its used in universities because of its direct translations from Greek/Hebrew. KJV is too worded from the 16th century, and half the people don't even understand what thou art reading when thee reads thy words of Jesus....


here is from that website you people keep sending me to.....

The New International Version (NIV) is a completely original translation of the Bible developed by more than one hundred scholars working from the best available Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts.

The initial vision for the project was provided by a single individual – an engineer working with General Electric in Seattle by the name of Howard Long. Long was a lifelong devotee of the King James Version, but when he shared it with his friends he was distressed to find that it just didn’t connect. Long saw the need for a translation that captured the truths he loved in the language that his contemporaries spoke.


[link to www.biblegateway.com]
Life without learning is like a flower without scent.
what?
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04/03/2011 08:21 AM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
The further one gets from the Truth or the Light the dimmer it seems to get.

The Way to the Truth is via the 4 Gospels or "Good News" which is the Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth aka Jesus Christ. These 4 books about 120 pages total are the complete message, philosophy and happenings in the life of Jesus. They are told by 4 different friend of Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. They traveled with him, they were hand picked by him for their jobs.

All of these Gospels are free at E-Sword.com along with commentaries.

You have good threads and comments, interesting.
 Quoting: what? 1323960


Thanks, I know the Bible pretty well. I've been studying/seeking within it for 20 years ++. The 4 Gospels I am totally fine with and I love the stories and words of Jesus. What I'm trying to say is for people to stop quoting Paul and thinking it's Jesus' words. That is all.
 Quoting: VivianV


I was including the link as benefit to all. I agree stick with the words of the Christ!
VivianV  (OP)

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04/03/2011 08:22 AM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
beacht9 And something still ain't right.
 Quoting: Judethz


What's not right is that if we all followed the actual teachings of Jesus rather than from Paul, this world would be a whole different place.... full of peace and love rather than judgement and condemning actions of each other all the time. Having open minds about things rather than thinking everything is so serious and rigid. I'm sure if we met the Jesus from the book, we would all be shocked.
Life without learning is like a flower without scent.
Wingedlion

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04/03/2011 08:23 AM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
Oh and stop using the King James Bible, its translated really improperly. Use the NIV if you want more accurately what the words were meant to mean. I'm a scholar and a Jesus lover, so just wanted to see how much you Paulians, oops i mean Christians actually know about this book you think God put together for you......
 Quoting: VivianV



It is hard having your butt handed to you isn't it? The KJV is the only translation that I will use...and I am a educated linguist with formal training in translation work. Your statement about the NIV is incorrect.

Call us what you will, but Paul invisioned the Church to be the final installment of Israel for he taught that the Gentiles were engrafted into the vine of Israel.

What you seem to have a difficult time with is understanding how the Spirit of the living God works in the lives of the believer, and that is a sign of an infiltrator, or as the Bible calls them...False Prophets, and False Teachers. I don't think God preserved His word, I know it for it works in great power, great spiritual power, and I wonder if you even know what that means.
"Glory is what happens when faith overcomes adversity."
VivianV  (OP)

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04/03/2011 08:24 AM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
I like your post OP. I never can understand how a man can trust the words of another man which claims to be speaking for God.
And it also is baffling that the ones who killed Jezus are the principle organizers of his religion. And no one cares.
There is a new tv series 'the Borgias', maybe you like it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1321807


Cool thanks AC, I'll check it out. Yes you're right they killed Jesus and built a whole church system and power system based on his life..... very curious.
Life without learning is like a flower without scent.
VivianV  (OP)

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04/03/2011 08:28 AM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
Good post OP.

People who have been brought up on Paul's teachings consider what you are saying as an attack on their faith, so it is understandable that they will accuse you of being wrong or stupid or whatever instead of actually carefully putting two and two together.

A Good site is [link to justgivemethetruth.com] on the whole pauline thing
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1309993



Great thanks for the link!
hf
Life without learning is like a flower without scent.
Anonymous Coward
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04/03/2011 08:29 AM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
"These letters have no allusion to the parents of Jesus, let alone to the virgin birth.

They never refer to a place of birth (for example, by calling him 'of Nazareth').

They give no indication of the time or place of his earthly existence.

They do not refer to his trial before a Roman official, nor to Jerusalem as the place of execution.

They mention neither John the Baptist, nor Judas, nor Peter's denial of his master …

These letters also fail to mention any miracles Jesus is supposed to have worked, a particularly striking omission, since, according to the gospels, he worked so many ...

Another striking feature of Paul's letters is that one could never gather from them that Jesus had been an ethical teacher ... on only one occasion does he appeal to the authority of Jesus to support an ethical teaching which the gospels also represent Jesus as having delivered. "

– G. A. Wells, The Historical Evidence for Jesus, 22-23.
Anonymous Coward
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04/03/2011 08:30 AM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
If you were a scholar you would not use the niv you would speak hebrew and greek until you do so stop posting things you dont understand.
Anonymous Coward
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04/03/2011 08:33 AM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
"Is anybody so mad as to believe that the food he eats is actually a god?"
– Cicero, The Nature of the Gods, 3.201.
VivianV  (OP)

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04/03/2011 08:34 AM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
It is hard having your butt handed to you isn't it? The KJV is the only translation that I will use...and I am a educated linguist with formal training in translation work. Your statement about the NIV is incorrect.

Call us what you will, but Paul invisioned the Church to be the final installment of Israel for he taught that the Gentiles were engrafted into the vine of Israel.

What you seem to have a difficult time with is understanding how the Spirit of the living God works in the lives of the believer, and that is a sign of an infiltrator, or as the Bible calls them...False Prophets, and False Teachers. I don't think God preserved His word, I know it for it works in great power, great spiritual power, and I wonder if you even know what that means.
 Quoting: Wingedlion


I understand the holy spirit, i felt it in church all the time during song, not ever when the preacher was spouting off something that Paul said. I am a very spiritual person, so yes I know what you mean, but can you please explain to me why you would follow anything Paul says when he killed Jesus' followers over and over again before he "converted"????

All I am saying is anything you say from Paul is invalid to me as Christianity and I'm now calling it Paulianity.
Life without learning is like a flower without scent.
Anonymous Coward
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04/03/2011 08:35 AM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
"It would also be entirely conceivable that the author of the Pauline letters did not begin at all with a historical figure ... but with a legend ... as the great hero of the faith in the past, powerful in words and deeds."
– Hermann Detering, Falsified Paul, 133/4.
VivianV  (OP)

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04/03/2011 08:36 AM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
"These letters have no allusion to the parents of Jesus, let alone to the virgin birth.

They never refer to a place of birth (for example, by calling him 'of Nazareth').

They give no indication of the time or place of his earthly existence.

They do not refer to his trial before a Roman official, nor to Jerusalem as the place of execution.

They mention neither John the Baptist, nor Judas, nor Peter's denial of his master …

These letters also fail to mention any miracles Jesus is supposed to have worked, a particularly striking omission, since, according to the gospels, he worked so many ...

Another striking feature of Paul's letters is that one could never gather from them that Jesus had been an ethical teacher ... on only one occasion does he appeal to the authority of Jesus to support an ethical teaching which the gospels also represent Jesus as having delivered. "

– G. A. Wells, The Historical Evidence for Jesus, 22-23.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1307268


Yep, Paul knew very very little about what Jesus actually taught and said, he was using the dead teacher's words to gain power and it worked. He was pretty much the first Pope, as far as I'm concerned. Thanks AC.
Life without learning is like a flower without scent.
Anonymous Coward
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04/03/2011 08:37 AM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
Is anyone else seeing this?

I find it incredible that you can first claim to have been saved through the divinely inspired message of a book; and then in an almost unbelievable act of incredulity, turn back again to that very same exact book and villify snippets of it as being not divinely inspired - and all of that based on other people's expert or academic opinions? When was the last time God consulted with an academician before doing anything?

This is the very definition of confusion. We are saved by God's Spirit as it manifests through His divinely inspired word, not by Chapters 4 through 18 and 46 through 112, excluding Chapters 7, 52, 98, and 104 and a partial verse 11!
VivianV  (OP)

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04/03/2011 08:38 AM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
If you were a scholar you would not use the niv you would speak hebrew and greek until you do so stop posting things you dont understand.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 979607


I do read Hebrew and Greek, what do you want to know about it? And yes, scholars do use the NIV because of its DIRECT correlation to the most original texts translated into english so we can communicate about the words of these people who spoke Aramaic/Hebrew/Greek
Life without learning is like a flower without scent.
Wingedlion

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04/03/2011 08:44 AM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
It is hard having your butt handed to you isn't it? The KJV is the only translation that I will use...and I am a educated linguist with formal training in translation work. Your statement about the NIV is incorrect.

Call us what you will, but Paul invisioned the Church to be the final installment of Israel for he taught that the Gentiles were engrafted into the vine of Israel.

What you seem to have a difficult time with is understanding how the Spirit of the living God works in the lives of the believer, and that is a sign of an infiltrator, or as the Bible calls them...False Prophets, and False Teachers. I don't think God preserved His word, I know it for it works in great power, great spiritual power, and I wonder if you even know what that means.
 Quoting: Wingedlion


I understand the holy spirit, i felt it in church all the time during song, not ever when the preacher was spouting off something that Paul said. I am a very spiritual person, so yes I know what you mean, but can you please explain to me why you would follow anything Paul says when he killed Jesus' followers over and over again before he "converted"????

All I am saying is anything you say from Paul is invalid to me as Christianity and I'm now calling it Paulianity.
 Quoting: VivianV




I was a rock recording artist before I was converted. I stole, I used drugs, I sold drugs and made a lot of money doing it, and I committed adultry on my wife. But when I became born again, all that changed. Paul only confirms everything that was written in the Old Testament, so I don't have to use anything of Paul's writings to convince you of anything, since you have became self blinding to the truth. You claim to be spiritual...yet I do not have any witness in my spirit that you are of God. You are not that spiritual.
"Glory is what happens when faith overcomes adversity."
Wingedlion

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04/03/2011 08:46 AM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
If you were a scholar you would not use the niv you would speak hebrew and greek until you do so stop posting things you dont understand.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 979607


I do read Hebrew and Greek, what do you want to know about it? And yes, scholars do use the NIV because of its DIRECT correlation to the most original texts translated into english so we can communicate about the words of these people who spoke Aramaic/Hebrew/Greek
 Quoting: VivianV



Then pray tell, what group of manuscripts were used in the translation of the NIV. (try answering that without using google)(the official name of the group)?
"Glory is what happens when faith overcomes adversity."
VivianV  (OP)

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04/03/2011 08:47 AM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
Is anyone else seeing this?

I find it incredible that you can first claim to have been saved through the divinely inspired message of a book; and then in an almost unbelievable act of incredulity, turn back again to that very same exact book and villify snippets of it as being not divinely inspired - and all of that based on other people's expert or academic opinions? When was the last time God consulted with an academician before doing anything?

This is the very definition of confusion. We are saved by God's Spirit as it manifests through His divinely inspired word, not by Chapters 4 through 18 and 46 through 112, excluding Chapters 7, 52, 98, and 104 and a partial verse 11!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 992437


Nope, I was saved through what i felt as a child, the spirit and knew it wasn't enclosed within the church walls or in the book they gave me.

'"Jesus said: If your leaders say to you 'Look! The Kingdom is in the heavens!" Then the birds will be there before you are. If they say that the Kingdom is in the sea, then the fish will be there before you are. Rather, the Kingdom is within you and it is outside of you." --from the Gospel of Thomas

24 His disciples said, "Show us the place where you are, for we must seek it." He said to them, "Anyone here with two ears had better listen! There is light within a person of light, and it shines on the whole world. If it does not shine, it is dark." 25 Jesus said, "Love your friends like your own soul, protect them like the pupil of your eye."

Can you hear it? Why didn't the one's who put the bible together put this in there?? You wouldn't be going to church if this book was in there, thats why.
Life without learning is like a flower without scent.
Anonymous Coward
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04/03/2011 08:49 AM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
Is anyone else seeing this?

I find it incredible that you can first claim to have been saved through the divinely inspired message of a book; and then in an almost unbelievable act of incredulity, turn back again to that very same exact book and villify snippets of it as being not divinely inspired - and all of that based on other people's expert or academic opinions? When was the last time God consulted with an academician before doing anything?

This is the very definition of confusion. We are saved by God's Spirit as it manifests through His divinely inspired word, not by Chapters 4 through 18 and 46 through 112, excluding Chapters 7, 52, 98, and 104 and a partial verse 11!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 992437


Nope, I was saved through what i felt as a child, the spirit and knew it wasn't enclosed within the church walls or in the book they gave me.

'"Jesus said: If your leaders say to you 'Look! The Kingdom is in the heavens!" Then the birds will be there before you are. If they say that the Kingdom is in the sea, then the fish will be there before you are. Rather, the Kingdom is within you and it is outside of you." --from the Gospel of Thomas

24 His disciples said, "Show us the place where you are, for we must seek it." He said to them, "Anyone here with two ears had better listen! There is light within a person of light, and it shines on the whole world. If it does not shine, it is dark." 25 Jesus said, "Love your friends like your own soul, protect them like the pupil of your eye."

Can you hear it? Why didn't the one's who put the bible together put this in there?? You wouldn't be going to church if this book was in there, thats why.
 Quoting: VivianV


How do you know what Jesus did or did not say if you never read the bible, the same one that always contains the Pauline writings?
VivianV  (OP)

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04/03/2011 08:50 AM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
If you were a scholar you would not use the niv you would speak hebrew and greek until you do so stop posting things you dont understand.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 979607


I do read Hebrew and Greek, what do you want to know about it? And yes, scholars do use the NIV because of its DIRECT correlation to the most original texts translated into english so we can communicate about the words of these people who spoke Aramaic/Hebrew/Greek
 Quoting: VivianV



Then pray tell, what group of manuscripts were used in the translation of the NIV. (try answering that without using google)(the official name of the group)?
 Quoting: Wingedlion


Ok, there were many different manuscripts used for the Old Testament, and many different ones for the New. If you want me to name them all for you on the spot, I definitely cannot do that. Scholar/one who studies doesn't mean I memorized everything I ever learned, thats why there are books and notes I've taken throughout the years. Are you serious in asking me for this to prove something to you? And its in the preface of the NIV anyways, you want me type it out here for you??
Life without learning is like a flower without scent.
Anonymous Coward
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04/03/2011 08:51 AM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
Aha! Now it comes out - the Gospel of Thomas, the very definition of spurious literature.

No wonder you are predisposed to believe anything that suits your private esoterica.
Wingedlion

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04/03/2011 08:55 AM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
If you were a scholar you would not use the niv you would speak hebrew and greek until you do so stop posting things you dont understand.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 979607


I do read Hebrew and Greek, what do you want to know about it? And yes, scholars do use the NIV because of its DIRECT correlation to the most original texts translated into english so we can communicate about the words of these people who spoke Aramaic/Hebrew/Greek
 Quoting: VivianV



Then pray tell, what group of manuscripts were used in the translation of the NIV. (try answering that without using google)(the official name of the group)?
 Quoting: Wingedlion


Ok, there were many different manuscripts used for the Old Testament, and many different ones for the New. If you want me to name them all for you on the spot, I definitely cannot do that. Scholar/one who studies doesn't mean I memorized everything I ever learned, thats why there are books and notes I've taken throughout the years. Are you serious in asking me for this to prove something to you? And its in the preface of the NIV anyways, you want me type it out here for you??
 Quoting: VivianV



To someone who claims to be a scholar this was an easy question that any real scholar could answer...that is why I asked it.

The correct answer to the question is Textus Alexandriacus, or the Alexandrian manuscripts that were kept in the library of Alexandria of Egypt. That is were the NIV comes from, whereas the KJV was translated from the Textus Recepticus manuscripts, which I believe are more pure translation.

Sorry you fail, as I suspected.

Last Edited by Wingedlion on 04/03/2011 08:56 AM
"Glory is what happens when faith overcomes adversity."
Anonymous Coward
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04/03/2011 08:56 AM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
Paul wasn't self-appointed, Jesus chose him. This is recorded in the bible.

But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
-- Acts 9:15

[link to www.biblegateway.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1326094


Right, Jesus did choose him, just like he chose me to tell you you're following the wrong guy. You're a Paulian, not a Christian.
 Quoting: VivianV


2000 years and The LITERAL Word of God, says, "YOU'RE WRONG!", OP! chuckle

The anti-pauline nonsense is JUST ANOTHER SATANIC DECEPTION...AS YOU WELL KNOW.goaway
VivianV  (OP)

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04/03/2011 08:59 AM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
Aha! Now it comes out - the Gospel of Thomas, the very definition of spurious literature.

No wonder you are predisposed to believe anything that suits your private esoterica.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 992437


'Spurious' or false because it wasn't included in the book and only found later with a bunch of other texts probably written sooner after Jesus died than the most of the other NT was written? Is that what you mean? So research and historical evidence is 'esoterica' to you? You know why they chose to keep it out of the bible, right? This gospel was all just sayings of Jesus, no stories, no death, just pure teachings.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
Life without learning is like a flower without scent.
VivianV  (OP)

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04/03/2011 09:01 AM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
Paul wasn't self-appointed, Jesus chose him. This is recorded in the bible.

But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
-- Acts 9:15

[link to www.biblegateway.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1326094


Right, Jesus did choose him, just like he chose me to tell you you're following the wrong guy. You're a Paulian, not a Christian.
 Quoting: VivianV


2000 years and The LITERAL Word of God, says, "YOU'RE WRONG!", OP! chuckle

The anti-pauline nonsense is JUST ANOTHER SATANIC DECEPTION...AS YOU WELL KNOW.goaway
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1088357


Paul was not good nor did he follow Jesus' teachings. Thats what you should know....... now you goaway

And if you are saying this because some preacher/pastor of the sheep told you to then go really far away.
Life without learning is like a flower without scent.
Anonymous Coward
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04/03/2011 09:11 AM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
Folks...

The OP is the one who calls herself the "Supreme Queen" of Heaven.

She can't have any challengers to her rule...

Thus the rant against traditional Christianity.

She is promoting the Mahdi.





GLP