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Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........

 
VivianV  (OP)

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04/03/2011 02:24 PM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
Hey OP, what about Peter? Is he legit or is he a fraud too?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1326498


Peter was one of the 12 disciples that Jesus chose. Paul was not chosen by Jesus, he appointed himself an apostle. The disciples followed Jesus and he taught them, they asked him questions and he taught them. Paul was never taught by Jesus and created a completely contradictory set of rules that most Christians follow rather than following Jesus' words. Look back at the thread for a minute, its all in there. I feel I'm just repeating and repeating myself at this point...................................

peace
Life without learning is like a flower without scent.
AlasBabylon

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04/03/2011 02:29 PM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
I'm having a difficult time following you. Are you saying that we all need the sacrifice of Christ in order to be saved? Question, who did Jesus rebuke and correct in the gospels? Do you believe that Jesus willfully died for us or that he was caught off guard and murdered without his allowing? The part I still don't agree with you on is that you cinflux to say that the two messages are opposed to one another. It is not an either or in my view. Are people saved by knowledge?

 Quoting: Adam 1162275



While you did not address this to me... I will answer
by saying... Jesus Christ Himself said He came ONLY
to the lost sheep of Israel [true Israel who are now
Christians.]

God was married to Israel, then divorced her because
she committed adultery and she became the whore wife
of false-gods.

Under God's Law, God could not remarry Israel.

When God incarnated and died, He died for Israel.
His death broke the old marriage covenant and
God and Israel are now free to remarry.



.
VivianV  (OP)

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04/03/2011 02:32 PM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
I'm having a difficult time following you. Are you saying that we all need the sacrifice of Christ in order to be saved? Question, who did Jesus rebuke and correct in the gospels? Do you believe that Jesus willfully died for us or that he was caught off guard and murdered without his allowing? The part I still don't agree with you on is that you cinflux to say that the two messages are opposed to one another. It is not an either or in my view. Are people saved by knowledge?

 Quoting: Adam 1162275



While you did not address this to me... I will answer
by saying... Jesus Christ Himself said He came ONLY
to the lost sheep of Israel [true Israel who are now
Christians.]

God was married to Israel, then divorced her because
she committed adultery and she became the whore wife
of false-gods.

Under God's Law, God could not remarry Israel.

When God incarnated and died, He died for Israel.
His death broke the old marriage covenant and
God and Israel are now free to remarry.
 Quoting: AlasBabylon


Who told you that, your preacher?
Life without learning is like a flower without scent.
Anonymous Coward
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04/03/2011 02:36 PM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
Hey OP, what about Peter? Is he legit or is he a fraud too?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1326498


Peter was one of the 12 disciples that Jesus chose. Paul was not chosen by Jesus, he appointed himself an apostle. The disciples followed Jesus and he taught them, they asked him questions and he taught them. Paul was never taught by Jesus and created a completely contradictory set of rules that most Christians follow rather than following Jesus' words. Look back at the thread for a minute, its all in there. I feel I'm just repeating and repeating myself at this point...................................

peace
 Quoting: VivianV


2 Peter 3:15-16

15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Or did Paul sneak in there and "edit" what Peter had written?
Adam
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04/03/2011 02:38 PM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
Have you ever considered that Jesus was preaching to the Jews? The Jews believed that they could obtain salvation through, which is why he rebuked the Pharisees. These were works driven people that failed to understand that they could never measure up to God's righteous standard. Jesus was showing the incredible bar that must be met in order to obtain salvation. Jesus was the servant that bore fruit but was still thrown outside the vineyard and crucified. He fulfilled all of the requirements. I read your website and the author is not taking into account that Jesus was teaching about the tremendous burden of works based salvation with all of the requirements. Jesus was the servant of God for us. That is the message of both Paul and Jesus. Paul came along after the work was completed and explained what Jesus had accomplished. Paul never said that the law was done away with, but that the only way to fulfill the law is through Christ's completed work. Do you honestly believe that the all powerful, all loving God of the universe has a checklist making sure that we complete all of our tasks for salvation? No! The work is done but until we are changed at the seventh trump we will continue on in sin. We sould repent now that we have knowledge of the truth, but Christ purchased our salvation not us. He changes us because he is able and purchased us through his work, not ours.
Da Purple Chicken

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04/03/2011 02:39 PM

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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
Hey OP, what about Peter? Is he legit or is he a fraud too?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1326498


Peter was one of the 12 disciples that Jesus chose. Paul was not chosen by Jesus, he appointed himself an apostle. The disciples followed Jesus and he taught them, they asked him questions and he taught them. Paul was never taught by Jesus and created a completely contradictory set of rules that most Christians follow rather than following Jesus' words. Look back at the thread for a minute, its all in there. I feel I'm just repeating and repeating myself at this point...................................

peace
 Quoting: VivianV


2 Peter 3:15-16

15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Or did Paul sneak in there and "edit" what Peter had written?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1326498



2 Peter has been well known to be a forgery and not written by Peter.
“If we are peaceful, if we are happy, we can smile and blossom like a flower, and everyone in our family, our entire society, will benefit from our peace.”
Thich Nhat Hanh, Being Peace

"But ask the animals, and they will teach you,
or the birds in the sky, and they will tell you;
or speak to the earth, and it will teach you,
or let the fish in the sea inform you." - Job 12:7,8

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S. Thompson



revstargazer (at) hotmail.com
VivianV  (OP)

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04/03/2011 02:40 PM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
Hey OP, what about Peter? Is he legit or is he a fraud too?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1326498


Peter was one of the 12 disciples that Jesus chose. Paul was not chosen by Jesus, he appointed himself an apostle. The disciples followed Jesus and he taught them, they asked him questions and he taught them. Paul was never taught by Jesus and created a completely contradictory set of rules that most Christians follow rather than following Jesus' words. Look back at the thread for a minute, its all in there. I feel I'm just repeating and repeating myself at this point...................................

peace
 Quoting: VivianV


2 Peter 3:15-16

15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Or did Paul sneak in there and "edit" what Peter had written?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1326498


Good one, i wish i knew, but it seems edited to me to give Paul more credibility. Theres just too much differences in the teachings of Jesus and Paul to think Paul was spreading Jesus' message rather than his own warped version.
Life without learning is like a flower without scent.
Anonymous Coward
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04/03/2011 02:44 PM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
THANKS OP! So much idiocy passes for Christianity these days. Yeah, lets call it Paulicy or something.
AlasBabylon

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04/03/2011 02:45 PM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
I'm having a difficult time following you. Are you saying that we all need the sacrifice of Christ in order to be saved? Question, who did Jesus rebuke and correct in the gospels? Do you believe that Jesus willfully died for us or that he was caught off guard and murdered without his allowing? The part I still don't agree with you on is that you cinflux to say that the two messages are opposed to one another. It is not an either or in my view. Are people saved by knowledge?

 Quoting: Adam 1162275



While you did not address this to me... I will answer
by saying... Jesus Christ Himself said He came ONLY
to the lost sheep of Israel [true Israel who are now
Christians.]

God was married to Israel, then divorced her because
she committed adultery and she became the whore wife
of false-gods.

Under God's Law, God could not remarry Israel.

When God incarnated and died, He died for Israel.
His death broke the old marriage covenant and
God and Israel are now free to remarry.
 Quoting: AlasBabylon



Who told you that, your preacher?

 Quoting: VivianV



My High Priest.



.
VivianV  (OP)

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04/03/2011 02:53 PM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
My High Priest.



.
 Quoting: AlasBabylon



High Priest? In Paulism, Judaism, Wicca, or Satanism? I don't know of any high priests.........except over 2000 years ago, the cohen were in charge of keeping the temple. That type of high priest??
Life without learning is like a flower without scent.
Adam
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04/03/2011 03:01 PM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
OP- Peter was one of few that knew Jesus very well. Yet he denied Jesus 3 times. Is he condemned because he fell short of the righteous standard? I don't believe Peter is condemned. The book of acts (which you don't believe) speaks of Jesus having mercy on Peter which led to his speech on Pentecost. This mercy shown towards Peter who knew Jesus personally on earth is the same grace given to all. See we all didn't have the privilege of knowing Jesus as did Peter, but Jesus showed his mercy to Peter. This is true Christianity. Paul's words agree completely. Don't get hung up on doctrine and just believe that you are truly freed and saved because you are!
justobserving

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04/03/2011 03:01 PM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
Op, stand your ground. I am so glad you started this thread. It's good to have debate and see both sides. But I am a follower of Christ, just like you. But, I'm curious, what the heck is a "derp"?
Anonymous Coward
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04/03/2011 03:11 PM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........


I'm having a difficult time following you. Are you saying that we all need the sacrifice of Christ in order to be saved? Question, who did Jesus rebuke and correct in the gospels? Do you believe that Jesus willfully died for us or that he was caught off guard and murdered without his allowing? The part I still don't agree with you on is that you cinflux to say that the two messages are opposed to one another. It is not an either or in my view. Are people saved by knowledge?

 Quoting: Adam 1162275



While you did not address this to me... I will answer
by saying... Jesus Christ Himself said He came ONLY
to the lost sheep of Israel [true Israel who are now
Christians.]

God was married to Israel, then divorced her because
she committed adultery and she became the whore wife
of false-gods.

Under God's Law, God could not remarry Israel.

When God incarnated and died, He died for Israel.
His death broke the old marriage covenant and
God and Israel are now free to remarry.
 Quoting: AlasBabylon



Jesus died for the world, not for a specific group of people. John 3:16-17. He is no respecter of persons, but he is able and willing to have mercy on us all. The law condemns us so that he can show us his mercy. God is not only interested in rules. The rules are a means to teach us individually that we miss the mark and that we need a savior. Jesus fulfilled the rules as a man, and is able to give us his mercy as our risen savior. The more people can realize the truth then they will be freed from the rules and doctrines of men that enslave, and cause hate, judgement, wars and such. Does anyone else agree that the message of the bible is freedom as opposed to the message of the world? The world teaches secret knowledge and works. The world treats people differently based on what that individual can produce for society. Thats why we worship celebrities. We are all decadent and worldly. Christ came to free us from that and at the appointed time we will all be changed and we will understand the truth, but not until then.
AlasBabylon

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04/03/2011 03:13 PM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
My High Priest.



.
 Quoting: AlasBabylon



High Priest? In Paulism, Judaism, Wicca, or Satanism? I don't know of any high priests.........except over 2000 years ago, the cohen were in charge of keeping the temple. That type of high priest??


 Quoting: VivianV




Obviously, you don't know Him.




.
AlasBabylon

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04/03/2011 03:16 PM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........


While you did not address this to me... I will answer
by saying... Jesus Christ Himself said He came ONLY
to the lost sheep of Israel [true Israel who are now
Christians.]

God was married to Israel, then divorced her because
she committed adultery and she became the whore wife
of false-gods.

Under God's Law, God could not remarry Israel.

When God incarnated and died, He died for Israel.
His death broke the old marriage covenant and
God and Israel are now free to remarry.
 Quoting: AlasBabylon



Jesus died for the world, not for a specific group of people.

 Quoting: VivianV



Jesus died to redeem Israel.

By redeeming Israel, God redeems the world.



.
Adam
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04/03/2011 03:21 PM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........


...



Jesus died for the world, not for a specific group of people.

 Quoting: VivianV



Jesus died to redeem Israel.

By redeeming Israel, God redeems the world.



.
 Quoting: AlasBabylon

Jesus fulfilled the requirements of Israel. He is our high priest as Israel was to be a nation of priests. He came out of Egypt as Israel came out of Egypt. He let his light shine for the whole world and so on. He fulfilled the sacrifice and will fulfill all of the feasts. Jesus is the true seed of Abraham, not the nation of Israel. Jesus is the true Israel, not the shadow and picture that was the nation of Israel. The old testament is a shadow and picture of the true. Does anyone else not see this?
Vlad Tepes

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04/03/2011 03:27 PM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
Jesus - Marx
Paul - Lenin
Sol Dominvs Imperi Romani
Imperium Romanum Sacrum
In Varietate Concordia
Anonymous Coward
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04/03/2011 03:33 PM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
OP has a point I think. Paul...might be an example of how man gets a hold of a thing and screws it all up.
AlasBabylon

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04/03/2011 03:33 PM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........


...



Jesus died to redeem Israel.

By redeeming Israel, God redeems the world.



.
 Quoting: AlasBabylon

Jesus fulfilled the requirements of Israel. He is our high priest as Israel was to be a nation of priests. He came out of Egypt as Israel came out of Egypt. He let his light shine for the whole world and so on. He fulfilled the sacrifice and will fulfill all of the feasts. Jesus is the true seed of Abraham, not the nation of Israel. Jesus is the true Israel, not the shadow and picture that was the nation of Israel. The old testament is a shadow and picture of the true. Does anyone else not see this?

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1324434



From Genesis to Revelation, the Bible is a book
about God's relationship with one people, Israel.
Other nations are mentioned only when they interact
with Israel.

Jesus said He came ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel.
God incarnated as the Word made flesh to redeem that
which was lost, Israel, the wife of God, now the Bride
of Christ.

Those who can not understand this, believe the Big Lie,
that the Edomite-jew synagogue of satan is Israel.




.
Adam
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04/03/2011 03:39 PM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
If Jesus is Israel and he came to save the world (john 3:16-17), then we are ALL the lost sheep of Israel. See he is Israel and we are the lost sheep. God is no respecter of persons. Flawed theology leads to perversions such as Zionism. Man Attacking, enslaving, persecuting and warring against fellow man in the name of God & Jesus is disgusting.
AlasBabylon

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04/03/2011 03:48 PM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
If Jesus is Israel and he came to save the world (john 3:16-17), then we are ALL the lost sheep of Israel. See he is Israel and we are the lost sheep. God is no respecter of persons.


 Quoting: Adam 1324434



You are wrong.

You can not see the truth when it is put right before your eyes.

You will continue deceiving and being deceived.



The truth is:

Jesus is the God of Israel incarnate in the Israelite blood line of David.

Jesus came ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel.

Jesus came to die to redeem His wife, His Chosen People, Israel.

By redeeming Israel, God redeems the world.







.

Last Edited by AlasBabylon on 04/03/2011 03:51 PM
Anonymous Coward
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04/03/2011 03:57 PM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
If Jesus is Israel and he came to save the world (john 3:16-17), then we are ALL the lost sheep of Israel. See he is Israel and we are the lost sheep. God is no respecter of persons.


 Quoting: Adam 1324434



You are wrong.

You can not see the truth when it is put right before your eyes.

You will continue deceiving and being deceived.




.
 Quoting: AlasBabylon


About what? Stop sounding so dramatic and walk me through how I'm wrong. Please explain. Do you believe God is a racist? You How do you interpret John 3:16-17? Have you read the book of Hebrews? I trust the bible not you. Where do you get your info or should I say from whom? Quote scripture is fine but you do realize that people misquote scripture every day? I can explain the Jesus/Israel parallel more thoroughly if you'd like. I just thought it would be too long and drawn out. How and whom am I deceiving? I thought we are having a conversation. I want people to be free from the enslavement of false religion. Zionism is false as is christian zionism, as is secret rapture, as is God being a respecter of persons, as is secret knowledge. All false. The work is done. My statements are biblical. Are yours?
Adam
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04/03/2011 04:02 PM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
If Jesus is Israel and he came to save the world (john 3:16-17), then we are ALL the lost sheep of Israel. See he is Israel and we are the lost sheep. God is no respecter of persons.


 Quoting: Adam 1324434





You are wrong.

You can not see the truth when it is put right before your eyes.

You will continue deceiving and being deceived.



The truth is:

Jesus is the God of Israel incarnate in the Israelite blood line of David.

Jesus came ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel.

Jesus came to die to redeem His wife, His Chosen People, Israel.

By redeeming Israel, God redeems the world.







.
 Quoting: AlasBabylon


Is God not the creator of us all? Therefore God is God of all. The old testament was a shadow of the true, not the true. I want to hear your take on John 3:16? How do you mold that into your theology? I agree God redeems the world through Christ (Israel). See Christ had to fulfill the old testament. He is of the seed of David and Abraham. make sense?
VivianV  (OP)

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04/03/2011 04:03 PM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
Op, stand your ground. I am so glad you started this thread. It's good to have debate and see both sides. But I am a follower of Christ, just like you. But, I'm curious, what the heck is a "derp"?
 Quoting: justobserving


Hey thanks. Just trying to get people's brain juices flowin.

Here are a few examples of derp for you from reddit....its pretty much like a derrr face or duh......

[link to i.imgur.com] doggie derp

[link to i.imgur.com] OReilly derp

[link to imgur.com] doggie derp

[link to 28.media.tumblr.com] kitty derp


[link to i.imgur.com] charlie sheen derp

[link to i.imgur.com] goat derp


Hope that clarifies hf
Life without learning is like a flower without scent.
The Blood Type Guy™

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04/03/2011 04:03 PM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
Marcion is right baby!

hf
You all rock!
VivianV  (OP)

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04/03/2011 04:05 PM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
Technically it all doesn't matter in the end what you believe, as you will see later...... it's HOW YOU LIVE. Jesus was an example of an awakened person, and everyone who came after screwed it up and made it confusing.... Confused yet derps? Just don't dwell on Paul's teachings as they are false, and if you don't believe me, I don't care.


THINK FOR YOURSELF. EXAMINE BEFORE BELIEVING.

That is the main point here................................

hf
Life without learning is like a flower without scent.
Adam
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04/03/2011 04:10 PM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
Technically it all doesn't matter in the end what you believe, as you will see later...... it's HOW YOU LIVE. Jesus was an example of an awakened person, and everyone who came after screwed it up and made it confusing.... Confused yet derps? Just don't dwell on Paul's teachings as they are false, and if you don't believe me, I don't care.


THINK FOR YOURSELF. EXAMINE BEFORE BELIEVING.

That is the main point here................................

hf
 Quoting: VivianV


Great post and conversation. I agree that it doesn't really matter. Think for yourself and examine before believing are excellent points and ways to approach matters.
Anonymous Coward
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04/03/2011 04:15 PM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
Oh sure. Disregard 2/3 thirds of the New Testament. Just tear those pages Paul wrote right out.
Adam
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04/03/2011 04:20 PM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
Oh sure. Disregard 2/3 thirds of the New Testament. Just tear those pages Paul wrote right out.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 914302


Don't tear them out, but Paul even talked about not being constantly in debate and strife. I believe Paul to be in perfect alignment and an apostle of Jesus Christ. But salvation doesn't come through Paul, so in the end it is not necessary for us all to agree on every matter.
Anonymous Coward
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04/03/2011 04:26 PM
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Re: Christians should be called Paulians instead, because most follow Paul not Jesus........
Why do Christians follow a testament written mostly by a man who NEVER met Jesus.....?
 Quoting: VivianV


Scripture indicates that Paul did meet Jesus. Lets assume they are falsified;

Did Moses meet Jesus?
Did Abraham meet Jesus?
Did David meet Jesus?
Did The Prophets meet Jesus?

We know the answers to this. We do not discard the words of those saints.

Let The Holy Spirit confirm scripture as truth or deception.
The Holy Spirit confirms to me that the writings of Paul are inspired of God. Other disagree. I am not very good at convincing others. But I am certain the Holy Spirit is.

peace,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1194370


Do Jews call themselves Mosesians or Abrahamians of Davidians? No, you all call yourselves Christians yet when it comes down to it are all following the words of Paul. Its semantics. Paul was no saint nor a prophet, and if you knew true history rather just listening to the man from the pulpit then you would understand. I know it's hard, but if you can really examine things for yourself, a lot might change for you all, in a good way! I'm not saying all christians are bad/evil whatever, but they are being misled and that is why i posted you are Paulian. The holy spirit is inside of us and all around us. I will not discard the Old Testament, never said I would, just the BOOKS THAT WERE WRITTEN BY PAUL. Did you read any of the previous thread, or just react and post this without seeing what was said????
 Quoting: VivianV


I can understand where you're coming from with this. About 6 months ago, I had a spiritual wrestle with this very issue as well. I saw things in paul's writings that were a contradiction. The issue came up for me when I was researching the Sabbath in depth, then I really noticed other things in paul's writings that didn't set well with me at all either.

I started to really doubt Paul in a big way, started to question him and even went so far as to call him a sheep in wolves clothing and a liar in my own mind. I was so upset about it, so I started to pray and pray about it. I needed an answer from God on this matter one way or another. I had to have clarification one way or another.

Then it happened. I was persecuted big time by my own christian brothers and sisters on another forum, basically kicked out because I wouldn't stop discussing end times prophecy and they didn't want to hear it. They said that it made us all look nuts. I was the owner and moderator of that group, and I cared for this group so deeply that it hurt me so much, I left.

That's when I understood Paul. That's what it took to finally "get it" about Paul.

Paul was just a human being, like you and me. He was not Jesus, he was just a man, and an imperfect man. His writings reflect that, they were his own personal letters to the churches, the same churches who were treating him horribly, persecuting him and calling him terrible names. His letters reflect what was going on at that time in those churches and also his heart, he was feeling so much pain over these issues. It wasn't until after that experience that I could relate.

So how do I jive Paul with what Jesus taught? I just refer back to Jesus as my first guide always because that's who we are to emulate, Jesus was and is our example. Paul was just another person like you and me, and sure, it's possible that he made some mistakes, but it's very clear that he loved Jesus very much and would have done anything for Him.

So, pray about this and ask God for clarification. And if it bothers you then just stick with the gospels for your own inspiration. Being a christian isn't easy, but if you follow Jesus with your whole heart and mind, it will be worth it.





GLP