BIBLE CONTRADICTION? 2ND COMMANDMENT FORBIDS MAKING GRAVEN IMAGES OF ANYTHING ON HEAVEN OR EARTH, SO WHY DID MOSES MAKE A FIERY SERPENT STAFF!!?

Theyre not worshiping the image, and God instructed him to do so. God was doing his work through Moses. He never instructed him to worship the staff as a god.

Question answered, now can these nit-picking trivial misinterpretations you Bible-haters use, cease?

and the Ten Commandments hadn't been handed down yet..

Didn't YHWH TELL him to???

If I recall the story correctly, it was to help him try to convince the Pharoah to "Let my people go...."

ok maybe, so you are saying its ok to make graven images of creatures, as long as you dont serve or worship them

No it was to heal the Israelites that had been bitten by serpents when they turned from God, But yes God instructed Moses to make the image

would constructing such an image still heal today?

you conveniently left out the context, which is dont make graven images TO WORSHIP THEM.

here is the next sentence you left out "You shall not bow down to them or worship them"

yes i know that but the 1st part of the commandment still says make no graven image


its in 2 different sections of that commandment but still



the sabbath commandment has different sections also

remember the sabbath day 2) rest on the sabbath day

you gotta rest on the sabbath but to do that you still have to do the first section of that commandment, REMEMBER it

the same could be implied on the 2nd commandment also just sayin

Good grief I'll repeat you have to understand context as anything coming from the bible must be referenced within context.

the key word in this on is graven and in this case it can be interpreted in one of 2 fashions

1) sculpture
2) solemn

the understanding of this has varied over time but from most of the original manuscripts available the original meaning and intent was the later, which would indicate the meaning was in plain modern american english:

None of you are permitted to make a thing to worship that is of a design found either on the earth, in the waters, in the sky above.

So thought the serpent staff was made by Moses as it's intent was not for worship he was not in violation of the 2nd commandment.

As to the images of the saints and Mary which are to be worshiped as in the catholic church those are in violation as they are created for that intent, worship.

To understand this, you need to have a context for understanding how the Bible was written. When Judaism was a new religion, most of the other religions at the time had images of their gods and goddesses. These images were very important to the Egyptians. The second commandment was intended to stop the Jews from creating and worshipping these types of images. The problem was that the Jews (like most people at that time) liked their images of their deities, and didn't want to give them up. This is why they created an image of a golden calf, and why they were punished so severely for doing so. The calf was an animal sacred to the other religions of that era.

As a former Catholic I'd done some reading of the Bible and must say it's teeming with contradictions. No wonder things are so messed up!

ok i can dig it, thanks for all the in my face answers. youve sharpend the sword of the spirit a little bit more for me thank u

Quote the rest of the verse. It says do not bow down and worship it.

teeming with contracdictions only with what the catholic chuch has told you and what the Bible actually says

God specifically told Moses, His representative before the Hebrews, to make the serpent on the pole.

people didn't worship it at the time, they looked at it and were healed.

later on it did become an idol and the children of Israel destroyed it.

we see in the new testament it was a picture of Jesus on the cross ;-)

it is a strange story to be sure but that's how it went down. if the Bible was a bunch of made up myths you'd think they coulda come up with something more plausible lol

love rb

as a current Christian I allow the Bible to read ME and I am full of contradictions!!

love rb

it amazes me how we can read the Bible and say wow that's jacked up! and completely miss the point that WE are the ones who are jacked up!!

we are sinners in need of a Savior -- And Jesus has provided for us. we need merely believe in Him and enter the covenant already established. we arent any better than all the goofs we make fun of. in the Bible or otherwise

love rb

you ask god about that...ok.


Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:

NOW...What abouthe dead presidents image on the money?

is that why this nation is goping downhill?

YOU LEFT THIS PART OUT TOO OP.

5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

in the proper context there is no contradiction.he the LORD GOD did not say bow down and worship it, but look by faith and obedience so that you may be healed.

[link to www.gotquestions.org]


[link to www.gracecentered.com]



THE LORD GOD was showing them a example of faith.also prefiguring LORD JESUS CHRIST

The bronze serpent was not a bad thing when God originally ordered it made. It was supposed to act like other instruments of God's grace (i.e. the rock in the desert that gave water, Moses' staff); it is just that the people started worshipping the bronze serpent instead of God, and thus it became a bad thing. in 2 kings 18:4

the image had no power over life and death; it was
obedience to the command of God that gave the image its relevance to the preservation and healing of life. remember it was the LORD GOD that said the command to Moses.

Keyword here is "WORSHIP". Thou shall not WORSHIP any graven image.

(in Context):

Numbers 21



5 And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread.


6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.

7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people.

8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.


--------------------------

Pretty profound.

Having just come out of Egypt, where they had 'good lives', they grumbled and complained against the very One who led them out of their 'happy' captivity.

The plague of snakes tormented them, and then they turned to Moses, as God's representative, to save them.

God, knowing their hearts and their willingness to look upon an idol as a source of healing, allowed the image of the snake as a touch-point that they could relate to.

The work of changing their hearts had just begun... (Thus the immediate building of a golden calf when Moses went away to recieve the Commandments).

Ingrained behaviour is hard to break.

It's a process

And yet, these "stupid" people know how to capitalize and use punctuation, while you don't.

Quite the mystery, eh?

then why was it in the temple until the reign of Hezekiah? stop just listening to your preacher and regurgitating what he says, read it for yourself and question it.

how do you know moses made a "fiery serpent staff"? because your bible tells you so? and what the xxxx is such a thing?

ALL fallen angels are called: Serpents. Read the book of Enoch as well as books in your Bible. The writings of the ancient Israelites is CODED.

That entry about the Israelites having to look at the image of the fallen angel, represented by a serpent, is only a different way for the Hebrews to reiterate that the Israelites would be FORCED to worship gods whom their ancestors did not know, and if they refused, they would be put to death. For those who would worship the gods of the serpents' nations, they would be spared and would live, as long as they continued to worship those gods.

This happened to the ancient Israelites under the Christians AND the Arabs (and other religions as well) because many refused to worship the fallen angels (gods/serpents) of those religions.

"And whosoever refused to worship the IMAGE of the Beast was killed....."

BECAUSE HE WAS MOCKING THEIR DISOBEDIENCE!

21:5 And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread.

21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.

21:7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people.


SO AS A REMINDER OF THEIR SIN HE HAD THEM LOOK AT THE IMAGE OF THE SNAKE HE SENT AT THEM

Last Edited by Neim-Ya'shar on 04/10/2012 03:12 PM