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Republic for the United States/Restore American Plan (RuSA/RAP) Discussion Thread

 
PatriotMythDebunker
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04/14/2011 06:43 AM
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Republic for the United States/Restore American Plan (RuSA/RAP) Discussion Thread
Unfortunately the old RuSA discussion thread has been spammed to death by RuSA supporters trying to silence any discussion about this Patriot scam as it continues to flounder and fall apart at the seams. This is a new thread devoted to the on topic discussion of the organization/scam known as "the republic for the United States," the "Restore American Plan," etc. Also open for discussion are the self-proclaimed leaders and officials involved, such as Tim Turner, Kelby Smith, etc. Finally, wider discussion about patriot ideology/sovereign citizens is also welcome, as these are the philosophies behind RuSA and other fake "governments."

RuSA shills, disinformation agents, and patriots are welcome to post here, but it will need to be on topic. This is an open discussion thread about RuSA - open means everyone is welcome to talk about it, both those who agree or disagree with it. Those interested in discussing RuSA will not let another thread be derailed by trolls. Anyone posting completely off topic material will be asked nicely once to stop, and after that you will be reported/your post will be removed.

Links of interest:
RuSA website - [link to www.republicoftheunitedstates.org]
RuSA Bureau of Public Records website (appears to be at war with the main RuSA faction) - [link to www.bureauofrepublicrecords.org]

Last Edited by PatriotMythDebunker on 04/14/2011 06:57 AM
PatriotMythDebunker  (OP)

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04/14/2011 06:48 AM
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Re: Republic for the United States/Restore American Plan (RuSA/RAP) Discussion Thread
Looks like RuSA still hasn't filled any key offices a year later - they can't even find a Patriot Mythology "scholar" for the attorney general position!

[link to dev.republicoftheunitedstates.org]
osbogosley

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04/14/2011 06:51 AM
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Re: Republic for the United States/Restore American Plan (RuSA/RAP) Discussion Thread
whatevernocomment
osbogosley; All words I type are illegal advice, really tired of disclaimers!
Anonymous Coward
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04/14/2011 06:53 AM
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Re: Republic for the United States/Restore American Plan (RuSA/RAP) Discussion Thread
Looks like RuSA still hasn't filled any key offices a year later - they can't even find a Patriot Mythology "scholar" for the attorney general position!

[link to dev.republicoftheunitedstates.org]
 Quoting: PatriotMythDebunker


Indeed. And "the silence is deafening" over those cancelled 6-month elections (should have been in mid-January, now 3 months overdue):-

"There will be an interim President. The interim government will run for 6 months." & "If people want a say in things they just need to wait until the six months is up and free elections are held." Tim Turner, July 16th 2010
PatriotMythDebunker  (OP)

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04/14/2011 06:58 AM
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Re: Republic for the United States/Restore American Plan (RuSA/RAP) Discussion Thread
Indeed. And "the silence is deafening" over those cancelled 6-month elections (should have been in mid-January, now 3 months overdue):-

"There will be an interim President. The interim government will run for 6 months." & "If people want a say in things they just need to wait until the six months is up and free elections are held." Tim Turner, July 16th 2010
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1339234



How absolutely shocking that the President of the "real" United States doesn't seem to go by his word. Tim Turner making failed promises/predictions? Say it isn't so!
PatriotMythDebunker  (OP)

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04/14/2011 07:02 AM
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Re: Republic for the United States/Restore American Plan (RuSA/RAP) Discussion Thread
"The government of Germany had a meeting and several of their officials spoke at this meeting, and the topic of discussion was about this republic. They were very excited and very supportive overall about this republic and they wanted to know more about it."
- Tim Turner, 4/13 confernece call

Hes still going with this "oh yeah we have all this support from all these other countries" - isn't interesting that none of these countries shows ANY outward support and none of them are willing to put up a DIME of funding. I mean, if Germany LOVES RuSA so much why don't they loan them $1 million or so for a starting budget. Since Tim has said he has tons of gold anyways, so it would be easy to pay back.
Nailer45

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04/14/2011 07:02 AM
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Re: Republic for the United States/Restore American Plan (RuSA/RAP) Discussion Thread
the restore America plan is one big failure as they do not call upon the people to revolt against big government openly.

You have to get the peoples support and have a leader .

talk talk talk is just that talk. Action speaks louder than words.
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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04/14/2011 05:34 PM
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Re: Republic for the United States/Restore American Plan (RuSA/RAP) Discussion Thread
I listed to the 4/13 conference call and was absolutely amazed: nothing new. Well I guess I'm not really amazed, as when your running a fake government you can't have that much new to report except when you make it up. And the problem has been Tim has made up so much and delivered so little that he can't make up much more before the entire scam comes falling down.
Nancy Lazaryan

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04/14/2011 05:44 PM
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Re: Republic for the United States/Restore American Plan (RuSA/RAP) Discussion Thread
do you know what happened to Sam Kennedy?
any info since Turner kicked him out?
PatriotMythDebunker  (OP)

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04/14/2011 06:02 PM
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Re: Republic for the United States/Restore American Plan (RuSA/RAP) Discussion Thread
do you know what happened to Sam Kennedy?
any info since Turner kicked him out?
 Quoting: Nancy Lazaryan


Yep, he went to jail for promoting patriot mythology.

I can't post the text or link here because its one of the sites that GLP doesn't like you linking to. However, if you search the Las Vegas Review Journal for "Conviction Chips Away at Sovereign Citizens" you will find the relevant article.
purposeguy2004
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04/14/2011 06:20 PM
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Re: Republic for the United States/Restore American Plan (RuSA/RAP) Discussion Thread
When you try to set up competing governments in our nation, there's a word for it . . . sedition. That's why most of those posts are going unfilled because anyone with half a brain knows this. Look what happened to those Republic of Texas guys some years back. Most of them are doing very long prison terms(kidnapping etc.) If you want to do something akin to this one must follow the law/Constitution. See link below for the RIGHT way to go about doing things.

[link to groups.yahoo.com]
Anonymous Coward
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04/14/2011 09:15 PM
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Re: Republic for the United States/Restore American Plan (RuSA/RAP) Discussion Thread
do you know what happened to Sam Kennedy?
any info since Turner kicked him out?
 Quoting: Nancy Lazaryan


Yep, he went to jail for promoting patriot mythology.

I can't post the text or link here because its one of the sites that GLP doesn't like you linking to. However, if you search the Las Vegas Review Journal for "Conviction Chips Away at Sovereign Citizens" you will find the relevant article.
 Quoting: PatriotMythDebunker


I'm afraid you're confusing your Sams there PMD. Sam Davis who in some ways took over the guardian elder spot vacated by Sam K is the one who recently pleaded guilty to enough felony counts to put him away for a very long time.

As to Sam Kennedy, I know he was laying low for a while and still may be. There's some scuttlebutt that he's dealing with some legal issues of his own but I've seen no credible proof of that.
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2011 02:17 PM
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Re: Republic for the United States/Restore American Plan (RuSA/RAP) Discussion Thread
Sam Kennedy's real name is Dr. Richard Glenn Unger and he is a failed drug addicted dentist from Rochester, NY who lost his license for writing phony scrips. He disappeared for a couple years and the re-emerged as "Dr. Sam Kennedy, Pain Therapist." Go figure.

He's somewhere in Texas now trying to reformat his radio program and start on another line of attack. The whole Rod Class/Dr. Dale Livingstone thing really tossed him around a little bit. Those "101 Ways to Torture Government Officials to Death" essay that Livingstone wrote did a number on Kennedy's credibility with the dumb and gullible (RAP-Sheep).

You can find all sorts of info on Kennedy/Unger online if you do a little digging.

Google terms that work:
"Sam the scam Kennedy"
"Sam Kennedy, Richard Glenn Unger"
"Richard Glenn Unger, dentist"
"Richard Glenn Unger, New York"
"Sam Kennedy, Guardians of the Free Republics"

You can probably figure out others on your own from that sample list.
PatriotMythDebunker  (OP)

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04/15/2011 06:05 PM
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Re: Republic for the United States/Restore American Plan (RuSA/RAP) Discussion Thread
do you know what happened to Sam Kennedy?
any info since Turner kicked him out?
 Quoting: Nancy Lazaryan


Yep, he went to jail for promoting patriot mythology.

I can't post the text or link here because its one of the sites that GLP doesn't like you linking to. However, if you search the Las Vegas Review Journal for "Conviction Chips Away at Sovereign Citizens" you will find the relevant article.
 Quoting: PatriotMythDebunker


I'm afraid you're confusing your Sams there PMD. Sam Davis who in some ways took over the guardian elder spot vacated by Sam K is the one who recently pleaded guilty to enough felony counts to put him away for a very long time.

As to Sam Kennedy, I know he was laying low for a while and still may be. There's some scuttlebutt that he's dealing with some legal issues of his own but I've seen no credible proof of that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1341799


Whoops, my mistake. You are right, I did confuse names. For some reason there seem to be so many Sams in the patriot movement...
PatriotMythDebunker  (OP)

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04/15/2011 06:10 PM
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Re: Republic for the United States/Restore American Plan (RuSA/RAP) Discussion Thread
Latest rambling from the RuSA faithful:
[link to republicfortheunitedstates.org]

What is so ironic is that the very "legal lunacy" being discussed is the entire concept of RuSA - complete and utter legal mythology.

Just shows RuSA is no more than a handful of patriot wackos arguing with each other while trying to play government.
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2011 07:36 PM
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Re: Republic for the United States/Restore American Plan (RuSA/RAP) Discussion Thread
The sad thing is that Tim Turner is such an incompetent idiot that far too many disgruntled restored republicans will miss the bigger picture. Yes, Tim couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel but he isn't the real problem. The real problem is sovereign paytriot mythology and all the manifest stupidity it encompasses.

First off, there is no notion of "individual sovereignty" in the constitution. It isn't in the declaration of independence, the federalist papers, the anti federalist papers or any of the other foundational documents of this nation. Some sovereign types will correctly point out that the term "sovereign citizen" is an oxymoron but what they fail to grasp is that so is "individual sovereignty," at least in so far as there are more than one individual.

The government of the United States is in fact a republic, it might not be the government you want but it is a republic. It was never abandoned so it can not be "re-inhabited." Congress adjourns sine die every two years, the 111th congress adjourned sine die on the 3rd of January of this year and now the 112th congress is in session. In that exact same way the 36th congress adjourned to be replaced with the 37th congress on March 4th 1861. Our republic didn't come to an end on January 3rd of this year just because the congress adjourned sine die and the republic didn't end on March 4th 1861 when the same thing happened.

But when the southern states seceded didn't that prevent congress from attaining a quorum? No, it didn't. Kansas became the 34th state in January of 1861 and total number of states to secede was 11. The constitution defines quorum as "majority" or more than 50% which isn't impossible to achieve when less than 1/3rd of the states secede.

So the republic was never abandoned so it can not be re-inhabited. Sorry.
PatriotMythDebunker (OP)
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04/16/2011 07:10 PM
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Re: Republic for the United States/Restore American Plan (RuSA/RAP) Discussion Thread
So the republic was never abandoned so it can not be re-inhabited. Sorry.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1343713


I think what this shows above all is that, for RuSA members, its about the desire to BELIEVE. Facts do not matter.
Anonymous Coward
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04/16/2011 07:51 PM
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Re: Republic for the United States/Restore American Plan (RuSA/RAP) Discussion Thread
So the republic was never abandoned so it can not be re-inhabited. Sorry.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1343713


I think what this shows above all is that, for RuSA members, its about the desire to BELIEVE. Facts do not matter.
 Quoting: PatriotMythDebunker 1284768


Yea, that much was clear last August after Regan and Tom botched their power play by trying to replace Tim with Dr. "101 Tortures to the Death" Livingston. While the game of hot potato Tim played with the RAP title was amusing the significant upshot wasn't changing RAP to RuSA it was shifting to a completely faith based foundation for their new republic.

I'm not anti Christian by any means but i do know that most of the people who most desperately want you to take everything they say on faith are the last people you should trust. RAP was hemorrhaging membership and all the bold pronouncements Tim made had gone for naught. He pretty much had already alienated anyone to whom pesky little things like facts could matter to so it was actually a fairly shrewd move on his part to start holding weekly prayer meetings and pretending that he was on a mission from God.

One small problem with all of that, God blesses those he ordains and are faithful to him. Trials and tribulations to be sure but "by their faith you shall know them" cuts both ways. Tim doesn't have faith in his followers, how long can he claim to be too busy to sit down and answer questions while he's waiting for his passport?

Nah, Tim's republic is dead. The only suspense left if to see which of the national team gets the blame and which ones give it. One of these days I'd really like to meet Tim Turner while fishing, not so much to talk to him or ask him any questions. But rather because it's the last honest work he's ever done and for his souls sake I'd like to see him return to it.
Anonymous Coward
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04/16/2011 09:15 PM
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Re: Republic for the United States/Restore American Plan (RuSA/RAP) Discussion Thread
The following link is neither current nor strictly RuSA related, but it is darn funny. David Russell Myrland is something of a sovereign guru and much like Tim's Republic Rangers, he figured his sovereign legal (sorry, lawful) magic powers would let him arrest judges:

[link to www.seattlepi.com]

Subsequent to that article Mr.Myrland's trail date has been set, for Sept. 12, 2011. And yes, they are keeping him locked up at until then and most likely for long after. Funny thing about threatening Judges with physical violence, for some reason it makes them just a tad bit less sympathetic at the bail hearing. Go figure.
Anonymous Coward
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04/17/2011 01:29 PM
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Re: Republic for the United States/Restore American Plan (RuSA/RAP) Discussion Thread
One of the base "proofs" of the validity of the sov'run mythology is based on erroneous belief...try convincing them.

The idea is that your birth certificate is used as collateral on loans to the treasury and is actually a naval birthing certificate under admiralty law or some shit. They say the proof is right on the birth certificate itself. Your name in all capital letters (JOHN DOE SMITH) is actually a legal loophole that classifies the name as a corporate slave under roman and admiralty law (Capitus Diminutiae Maximae) and the red stamped control number at the bottom, which is usually preceded by a "B" is actually your treasury direct account number (when combined with the SS number or something) and the "B" stands for "Bond" because that what it is actually a certificate of. 1dunno1

Under admiralty law, the STRAWMAN attached to the corporate berthing certificate is responsible for all debts, crimes or any other action which could result in court involvement. But the "Flesh and Blood Person Created by God in Christ Jesus" (or whatever) is not responsible because "John-Smith: Doe" (or whatever) isn't the same person as JOHN SMITH DOE.scratching

The fact of the matter is that the "B" doesn't stand for "Bond" at all. I ordered a copy of my birth certificate, and when I received it there was in fact a red stamped B########. Are they right?blink

Well, I ordered a copy of my aunt's birth certificate as a surviving relative doing genealogical research along with a copy of her death certificate. She was born in 1950 (long after "the Republic was abandoned and the people reduced to paper chattel"). Her birth certificate also had a red stamped B####### at the bottom of it. Her death certificate also had a matching red stamped number at the bottom of it. Preceded by the letter "D".1doh1
PatriotMythDebunker (OP)
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04/23/2011 03:06 AM
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Re: Republic for the United States/Restore American Plan (RuSA/RAP) Discussion Thread
Well guys I think its really the end for RuSA. I listened to the past week's conference call and it was all a recitation of the tired and debunked patriot propaganda.

Its dead in the water, folks.
Anonymous Coward
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04/23/2011 06:35 AM
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Re: Republic for the United States/Restore American Plan (RuSA/RAP) Discussion Thread
Well guys I think its really the end for RuSA. I listened to the past week's conference call and it was all a recitation of the tired and debunked patriot propaganda.

Its dead in the water, folks.
 Quoting: PatriotMythDebunker 1284768

Agreed. I posted this on the former-RuSA thread (the big one that went off-topic):-

"Those who think the current govt is wonderful will believe what they will. Those who think Tim Turner was hand-picked by Jesus, has $600 trillion of gold under his bed, can cure leukemia in 5 days, is being followed around by Navy Seals (who aren't trained in CQP (Close Quarters Protection) bodyguard tactics anyway), etc, will follow him off the edge of a cliff like sheep. And those in the middle who for a while gave TRAP / RuSA the benefit of the doubt but are smart enough to ask questions and actually expect answers beyond pious sermons / religious vanity / cult of personality / excuses / propaganda tactics are gradually in the process of moving on.

Not much left to discuss because RuSA has no answers, and people have stopped asking questions after "seeing the writing on the wall". The year long "do not question" honeymoon is over other than a few dozen people on the sheeple (Andy's) blog whose solution to all the world's problems is to eat chocolate and read out quotes.

Have a Happy Easter all."
Anonymous Coward
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04/23/2011 08:12 AM
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Re: Republic for the United States/Restore American Plan (RuSA/RAP) Discussion Thread
The fact of the matter is that the "B" doesn't stand for "Bond" at all. I ordered a copy of my birth certificate, and when I received it there was in fact a red stamped B########. Are they right?

Well, I ordered a copy of my aunt's birth certificate as a surviving relative doing genealogical research along with a copy of her death certificate. She was born in 1950 (long after "the Republic was abandoned and the people reduced to paper chattel"). Her birth certificate also had a red stamped B####### at the bottom of it. Her death certificate also had a matching red stamped number at the bottom of it. Preceded by the letter "D".
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1093617


I have my BC from 1948, and there is NO B###### anywhere on it.

There IS a code for my last name, AND my Mothers maiden name, but they're soundex codes (letter and 3 numbers). Used a LOT in genealogy, and census sorting and searching.

The only OTHER number (not directly related to the birth) is the year, a dash, and a 6 digit number which is simply a filing ID.

Oh, BTW, it DOES SAY, at the top, CERTIFICATION OF VITAL RECORD!!!!!

And it WAS good enough to get a new (replacement) Social Security card, registration for Veterans Administration medical care, California ID card, AND a U.S. Passport!!!





GLP