The Ion Drive - Get to Mars within 5 hours!!! Is this the future of space propulsion? | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1402959 United States 05/27/2011 10:22 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | What affect do the discarded atoms have on the local space environment? I bet that hasn't even been considered! I bet there are some breeds of space animals that are being decimated by the spent atoms of Deep Space 1! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1206931 United States 05/27/2011 10:23 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | What do you know about these? Quoting: Nosaj"Basically, take an atom and zap it to remove it's electron. Then the atom has a positive charge. Use a positive electric field to fire the atom out the back (positive charges repel each other). Since it is a little atom, you can fire it at a VERY VERY high speed. It is like propelling your car by shooting BBs out the back. Basically, it takes a long time to get up to speed, but it much more efficient since you can shoot those BBs out at close to light speed. For the same mass of propellant, you end up going a lot further and faster(EVENTUALLY!). Think of it this way. If you have 100 pounds of propellant and shoot it all out the back at 50,000 mph and have used it up in a few minutes (like a rocket) vs. taking that 100 pounds and shooting it out at the speed of light (though it takes you a month to shoot it all out) then you've imparted a lot more thrust overall at the end of a month. If you wanted to go faster at the start, you need a whole mess of BB shooters going all at once. So in order to get to Mars fast, you need to design something that can shoot out more than 1 BB at a time. If you could, for example, take that 100 lbs and shoot it all out the back at the speed of light in a few minutes, you'll be really haulin'. Current ION thrusters only shoot a few atoms out at a time, so they have been used on long missions that are weight constrained and so can't carry lots of fuel. NASA's Deep Space 1 probe (launched in 1998) was the first to test out using one. NASA's DAWN probe that is about to reach the asteroid Vesta also uses ION engines. [link to www.space.com] So, the hope is that now that ion engines have been proven, that they can make much bigger ones (or hundreds/thousands of them) on a ship. We have a long way to go still, so some ideas are to use ion engines for delivering cargo/supplies and old fashioned rockets for people." [link to www.universetoday.com] [link to www.amazon.com] Ion drive is great and its exponential curve of acceleration is great, one problem. That is, the amount of time it takes to initially accelerate takes WAY to long and I mean it could take literally months to just get moving to a few thousand mph |
Nosaj (OP) User ID: 1401516 United States 05/27/2011 10:25 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | What affect do the discarded atoms have on the local space environment? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1402959I bet that hasn't even been considered! I bet there are some breeds of space animals that are being decimated by the spent atoms of Deep Space 1! I have heard that we should think of space as just another vast giant unexplored ocean with other sentient beings in it. I think that is what the "rods" and "orbs" are that NASA is trying to shake off with the most recent shuttle mission. They are not UFOs/Ships in the traditional sense but we need to treat them almost like underwater deep sea sentient beings...except in deep space. What implications it may have I am sure we will find out. Jus' movin' on up in the world inch by inch... |
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Nosaj (OP) User ID: 1401516 United States 05/27/2011 10:33 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The Hayabusa (Muses C) probe used an ion drive. It takes a very long time to get up to any speed. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1402866Ion drive is great and its exponential curve of acceleration is great, one problem. That is, the amount of time it takes to initially accelerate takes WAY to long and I mean it could take literally months to just get moving to a few thousand mph Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1206931Thanks for the input ACs! So, that seems to be the greatest problem then so far is the acceleration. I am sure that can be focused upon and tweaked? I think it would be useful for sending cargo/supplies for colonies of Mars or even Venus if/when this species gets intelligent enough to terraform those planets. The terraforming of Venus seems like a nice probability. If we don't destroy ourselves before then and get rocked back to the stone age. Last Edited by Inchworm Jim on 05/27/2011 10:33 AM Jus' movin' on up in the world inch by inch... |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1371508 United Kingdom 05/27/2011 10:33 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | [youtube] [link to www.youtube.com] |
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tsunamibomb User ID: 1402999 United States 05/27/2011 10:39 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | No way to get to mars in 5 hours no matter what. You cannot survive that much acceleration/deceleration. Maybe a two day trip if you want to be in a special support chamber or a week realistically. Ion drives are as old as the hills. They are efficient but not powerful. The technologies available simply cannot work that well. You still have to pack a power supply to propel the ions, which limits usage of this type of system to being powered by solar panels, other methods require launch of fuels or reactive materials that get used up/expire and are heavy. So it's a nice thought, but won't really be useful for space travel even if we wanted it. It is great for correcting orbits of satellites. |
Edge Rider User ID: 1377922 United States 05/27/2011 10:40 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ion propulsion is very cool [link to en.wikipedia.org] nasa is going to strap VASMIR to the ISS in 2013 [link to en.wikipedia.org] Row, row, row your boat...gently down the stream...merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...life is but a dream... [link to en.wikipedia.org] / [link to www.youtube.com] |
SHR Forum Administrator 05/27/2011 10:48 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Still a lot of major hurdles to get past before we earthlings have long range space travel. Radiation, time/distance, force put on our bodies just to name a few. Space is a hostile environment, it's better for robots really...even there we must overcome the massive amounts of fuel now required to really get anywhere even fairly quickly. Hope ION drives have a future...they may. I'd love to see some robots roaming IO or Europa in my lifetime. ____________________________________________________ E-mail anytime [email protected] Inquiring about a ban?, include the IP address found here. [link to www.showmemyip.com] Ooooh, see the fire is sweepin' Our very streets today... Burns like a red coal carpet, Mad bulls lost the way... War, children, it's just a shot away...it's just a shot away.... |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 456756 United States 05/27/2011 10:51 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | What affect do the discarded atoms have on the local space environment? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1402959I bet that hasn't even been considered! I bet there are some breeds of space animals that are being decimated by the spent atoms of Deep Space 1! Space animals! Of course. You're a genius! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1402959 United States 05/27/2011 11:14 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Wouldn't work for humans in an "hours" time frame...the acceleration and deceleration "G" forces would crush a person to gravy. Quoting: SHRStill a lot of major hurdles to get past before we earthlings have long range space travel. Radiation, time/distance, force put on our bodies just to name a few. Space is a hostile environment, it's better for robots really...even there we must overcome the massive amounts of fuel now required to really get anywhere even fairly quickly. Hope ION drives have a future...they may. I'd love to see some robots roaming IO or Europa in my lifetime. I used to accept common well-held beliefs as well. I don't know that space is a hostile environment for humans. I've not been there yet nor do I trust TPTB assertion that it is indeed hostile and devoid of life. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1403114 United States 05/27/2011 12:12 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | What affect do the discarded atoms have on the local space environment? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1402959I bet that hasn't even been considered! I bet there are some breeds of space animals that are being decimated by the spent atoms of Deep Space 1! Get Al Gore involved. Universal Warming! Pictures of polar bears floating on asteroids to follow. |
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The Great Neutral User ID: 1401708 United States 05/27/2011 12:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Now if we were talking about Twin Ion Engine vehicles... [link to starwars.wikia.com] To look at the world with an unbiased eye. |
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 1403228 United Kingdom 05/27/2011 01:51 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | No way to get to mars in 5 hours no matter what. You cannot survive that much acceleration/deceleration. Maybe a two day trip if you want to be in a special support chamber or a week realistically. Have you never heard of inertial dampers? Using a computer controlled gravitational field to cancel out the acceleration deceleration forces works like a charm. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1399634 United States 05/27/2011 01:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | What do you know about these? Quoting: Nosaj"Basically, take an atom and zap it to remove it's electron. Then the atom has a positive charge. Use a positive electric field to fire the atom out the back (positive charges repel each other). Since it is a little atom, you can fire it at a VERY VERY high speed. It is like propelling your car by shooting BBs out the back. Basically, it takes a long time to get up to speed, but it much more efficient since you can shoot those BBs out at close to light speed. For the same mass of propellant, you end up going a lot further and faster(EVENTUALLY!). Think of it this way. If you have 100 pounds of propellant and shoot it all out the back at 50,000 mph and have used it up in a few minutes (like a rocket) vs. taking that 100 pounds and shooting it out at the speed of light (though it takes you a month to shoot it all out) then you've imparted a lot more thrust overall at the end of a month. If you wanted to go faster at the start, you need a whole mess of BB shooters going all at once. So in order to get to Mars fast, you need to design something that can shoot out more than 1 BB at a time. If you could, for example, take that 100 lbs and shoot it all out the back at the speed of light in a few minutes, you'll be really haulin'. Current ION thrusters only shoot a few atoms out at a time, so they have been used on long missions that are weight constrained and so can't carry lots of fuel. NASA's Deep Space 1 probe (launched in 1998) was the first to test out using one. NASA's DAWN probe that is about to reach the asteroid Vesta also uses ION engines. [link to www.space.com] So, the hope is that now that ion engines have been proven, that they can make much bigger ones (or hundreds/thousands of them) on a ship. We have a long way to go still, so some ideas are to use ion engines for delivering cargo/supplies and old fashioned rockets for people." [link to www.universetoday.com] [link to www.amazon.com] Ion drive is great and its exponential curve of acceleration is great, one problem. That is, the amount of time it takes to initially accelerate takes WAY to long and I mean it could take literally months to just get moving to a few thousand mph a catapult system being designed now will alleviate acceleration lag |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1403228 United Kingdom 05/27/2011 01:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | No way to get to mars in 5 hours no matter what. You cannot survive that much acceleration/deceleration. Maybe a two day trip if you want to be in a special support chamber or a week realistically. Quoting: tsunamibomb 1402999Have you never heard of inertial dampers? Using a computer controlled gravitational field to cancel out the acceleration deceleration forces works like a charm. |
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