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To those who believe that global overpopulation is a myth...

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1399152
United States
05/28/2011 05:40 PM
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To those who believe that global overpopulation is a myth...
In all due respect, I would like to present my thoughts on this issue.

The most common argument I hear from people who believe that there is a myth being perpetrated regarding overpopulation is that there are plenty of resources to support 7 billion people. This is usually accompanied by a mathematical analysis related to Australia and how many people could be crammed into this one continent.

In my mind, there are really two issues to be addressed here:

1. Are there enough resources on this planet to SUSTAINABLY support 7 billion people?

2. Are there any global effects incurred by supporting 7 billion people which might lead to ecological collapse or other conditions that lessen the carrying capacity of the earth?

In regards to question 1, in principle I do believe that there are enough resources to support humanity as it exists today. Now, more importantly, can it be done in a way that is sustainable? I really don't think it can be. Strip everything down to the basics - food, water and shelter. Food production is energy intensive. We need a high energy density fuel to produce food on our current scale. Moreover, we need very complex industries to support food production. Think about it - we need fertilizers to grow our food, machine parts to keep our tractors running and distribution networks to get the food to market.

So, I imagine that the counter-argument at this point is that centralized food production is the problem, not overpopulation. But, really, do you think that we could grow enough food in a distributed manner to support 7 billion people? What would happen if every household or community saw to its own food production? I will tell you what I think...I think that it would be a disaster because there are so many people living in areas outside of the temperate and tropical zones. These people simply cannot provide for themselves. They need food produced in your backyard! Moreover, you will undoubtedly have large areas that are capable of growing food which are non-productive in certain time periods due to drought or extreme weather. The bottom line to me is that with 7 billion people you simply cannot distribute food production!

Now, question 2 raises a whole separate issue. Regardless of whether we can meet the needs of 7 billion people with our current resources, can we do it in a way that doesn't cause global effects which undermine our ability to meet those needs? Unless we can live in a totally sustainable manner, I don't see how we can keep from having a global impact. Fertilizers wash into our rivers, polluting our waters and oceans. Factories and industries release massive amounts of waste and pollution in the simplest processes of refining metals for use in our basic machines. In addition, everything we do consumes massive amounts of energy, which simply cannot come from any other source than dirty fossil fuels or risky nuclear energy at present if we wish to meet our current demand. Granted, this demand could probably be reduced significantly from its present level while still supporting the population, but there would still be a significant demand that probably could not be met by "clean" alternatives such as solar and wind.

Which leads me to my final point. What if we discover a completely clean source of virtually unlimited power (e.g. fusion, vacuum energy, something else?). Surely, we could support the global population with unlimited power at our disposal? I will grant this one. Yes, we probably could manage some way of doing it without destroying our world. However, there is something else that I have not yet addressed and that is the unstoppable propensity for mankind to reproduce. If and only if man is somehow convinced or forced into closely managing reproduction can unlimited power work. Because without this we would literally be crammed in shoulder to shoulder. All other life would be squeezed out of existence. It is a simple matter of having room for every life form. If we squeeze other life forms out of existence then eventually we will have nothing left in this world. And our own species would soon come to an end as well.

BOTTOM LINE: Humans are at a very strange junction. Totalitarian government and forced sterilization of the people of earth would probably allow us to continue sustaining the population for a long time. I for one do not desire this destiny and see it as repulsive. The only other option is for the collective to somehow spontaneously start living and acting in ways that will allow for sustainable existence on this planet. But, even that will depend on the discovery of a virtually unlimited power source. I have not yet given up hope on either of these two requirements.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1396114
United States
05/28/2011 05:41 PM
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Re: To those who believe that global overpopulation is a myth...
feeding everyone is simple, managing all those people is the hard part.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1263485
Canada
05/28/2011 05:46 PM
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Re: To those who believe that global overpopulation is a myth...
I think you're right, there are too many people, so lets get that number down...

We should what?

Kill people?

Right, lets kill people, so how should we start?

Maybe we'll start with the blacks? Or the Jews?

They are weak, right?

Wouldn't be too hard, but then what?

Maybe we'll start killing the ones that we disagree with, you know, the ones that don't believe in law and order, maybe the ones that dis our murder program first?

Well, we will come up with something anyway...

So when do we start murdering people?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1225688
Finland
05/28/2011 06:01 PM
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Re: To those who believe that global overpopulation is a myth...
suppose there is a space ship, two men two women, and oxygen for a return trip to Earth for just four people - should there be a right to procreate under these conditions?


I dont think so. The Christians think that ecology doesn't matter cos Jebus is coming thru clouds and end the world anyway ...

only solution I can come up is a cap and trade system for breeding. Women in thirld world countries would have a permit for like 3 children in industrial countries maybe one permit. Birth permissions could be traded creating incentives for the people in poor countries to restrict their reproduction etc
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1402433
Ireland
05/28/2011 06:09 PM
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Re: To those who believe that global overpopulation is a myth...
the world is not over populated. China, India and Indonesia are overpopulated but not to a point where mass reduction is required.

look at russia the largest country in the world with a third of the US population. Australia nearly as big as the US with 20 million people. There is enough land in australia for every human in the current population to have one acre of land.

the world is not overpopulated its a Myth to make you think its ok to slaughter brown people and take their stuff for the greater good.

pure elitist drivel beamed into every home thanks to the idiot box!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1404869
Canada
05/28/2011 06:11 PM
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Re: To those who believe that global overpopulation is a myth...
It's a myth, tard.

All the world population could live in Australia.

And the rest of the world could be used as a food garden.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1225688
Finland
05/28/2011 06:18 PM
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Re: To those who believe that global overpopulation is a myth...
It's a myth, tard.

All the world population could live in Australia.

And the rest of the world could be used as a food garden.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1404869


All the world population could live in Houston, but why?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1263485
Canada
05/28/2011 06:20 PM
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Re: To those who believe that global overpopulation is a myth...
Women in thirld world countries would have a permit for like 3 children in industrial countries maybe one permit. Birth permissions could be traded creating incentives for the people in poor countries to restrict their reproduction etc
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1225688


WTF???

And what overlord is going to administer this creed?

How do you enforce it?

Do you imprison breeders if they go away from your man made standard?

Don't you realize what type of totalitarianism this would merit? What type of systems would have to be in place to force this on people?

Instead, why don't we trust nature and let her find a balance?

She always does.

Your arrogance in thinking that man can do this without making life hell what nature does naturally and better is laughable.

How arrogant that you can impose a limit that is God's alone to decree with the systems that he has made.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1225688
Finland
05/28/2011 06:35 PM
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Re: To those who believe that global overpopulation is a myth...
Women in thirld world countries would have a permit for like 3 children in industrial countries maybe one permit. Birth permissions could be traded creating incentives for the people in poor countries to restrict their reproduction etc
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1225688


WTF???

And what overlord is going to administer this creed?

How do you enforce it?

Do you imprison breeders if they go away from your man made standard?

they shoud be executed




Don't you realize what type of totalitarianism this would merit? What type of systems would have to be in place to force this on people?

Instead, why don't we trust nature and let her find a balance?

She always does.

Mother nature is a naive hippie metaphor we are heading for an overshoot and crash scenario instead



Your arrogance in thinking that man can do this without making life hell what nature does naturally and better is laughable.

How arrogant that you can impose a limit that is God's alone to decree with the systems that he has made.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1263485



religotardism is an obstacle; another obstacle is the fact that the majority of world countries are corrupt bingo bongo banana states, rational policies are hard to implement
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1402433
Ireland
05/28/2011 06:44 PM
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Re: To those who believe that global overpopulation is a myth...
Women in thirld world countries would have a permit for like 3 children in industrial countries maybe one permit. Birth permissions could be traded creating incentives for the people in poor countries to restrict their reproduction etc
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1225688


WTF???

And what overlord is going to administer this creed?

How do you enforce it?

Do you imprison breeders if they go away from your man made standard?

they shoud be executed




Don't you realize what type of totalitarianism this would merit? What type of systems would have to be in place to force this on people?

Instead, why don't we trust nature and let her find a balance?

She always does.

Mother nature is a naive hippie metaphor we are heading for an overshoot and crash scenario instead



Your arrogance in thinking that man can do this without making life hell what nature does naturally and better is laughable.

How arrogant that you can impose a limit that is God's alone to decree with the systems that he has made.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1263485



religotardism is an obstacle; another obstacle is the fact that the majority of world countries are corrupt bingo bongo banana states, rational policies are hard to implement

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1225688


Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1400439
United States
05/28/2011 06:44 PM
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Re: To those who believe that global overpopulation is a myth...
feeding everyone is simple, managing all those people is the hard part.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1396114


You might want to take a look at the crop reports.
Food cant grow on flooded or drought stricken farms.
Temperature fluctuation kills crops also.
Sea food is also dying off rapidly.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 1399152
United States
05/28/2011 06:45 PM
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Re: To those who believe that global overpopulation is a myth...
I really think that we need to detach our emotions from this issue. I am at as much risk as any of you. This shouldn't be such of a hair-trigger issue. We are ALL at risk. TPTB can try to implement whatever plans they want to control the situation. None of us have any input into that process at the moment. I certainly don't want anyone to be killed so that I may live. I want to stress that point because it is very important. But, what is also very important is that we look at this situation as objectively as possible.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1404920
United States
05/28/2011 06:45 PM
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Re: To those who believe that global overpopulation is a myth...
All the world's problems start with overpopulation. Seven billion large, voracious hominids are simply killing the planet.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1402433
Ireland
05/28/2011 06:49 PM
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Re: To those who believe that global overpopulation is a myth...
I really think that we need to detach our emotions from this issue. I am at as much risk as any of you. This shouldn't be such of a hair-trigger issue. We are ALL at risk. TPTB can try to implement whatever plans they want to control the situation. None of us have any input into that process at the moment. I certainly don't want anyone to be killed so that I may live. I want to stress that point because it is very important. But, what is also very important is that we look at this situation as objectively as possible.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1399152


the point is my friend if the elites are going to kill off 6 billion people so they can continue their decadent lives in luxury, what makes you think you are not one of the 6 billion marked for liquidation?

Only billionaires, millionaires and a selection of scientists, engineers, doctors and women of breeding age will survive.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1404920
United States
05/28/2011 06:53 PM
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Re: To those who believe that global overpopulation is a myth...
feeding everyone is simple, managing all those people is the hard part.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1396114


You might want to take a look at the crop reports.
Food cant grow on flooded or drought stricken farms.
Temperature fluctuation kills crops also.
Sea food is also dying off rapidly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1400439


Add to that loss of topsoil and the fact that industrial farming uses massive amounts of fertilizers made from dwindling petroleum reserves and you see that this can't go on much longer.

It's a huge population BUBBLE that we're a part of.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1404925
United States
05/28/2011 06:56 PM
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Re: To those who believe that global overpopulation is a myth...
ye really can't do anything about world population or food production. all ye can affect is yer own actions in the world. are ye making babies? growing yer own food? weaning off oil?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1404877
Germany
05/28/2011 06:59 PM
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Re: To those who believe that global overpopulation is a myth...
Women in thirld world countries would have a permit for like 3 children in industrial countries maybe one permit. Birth permissions could be traded creating incentives for the people in poor countries to restrict their reproduction etc
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1225688


WTF???

And what overlord is going to administer this creed?

How do you enforce it?

Do you imprison breeders if they go away from your man made standard?

they shoud be executed




Don't you realize what type of totalitarianism this would merit? What type of systems would have to be in place to force this on people?

Instead, why don't we trust nature and let her find a balance?

She always does.

Mother nature is a naive hippie metaphor we are heading for an overshoot and crash scenario instead



Your arrogance in thinking that man can do this without making life hell what nature does naturally and better is laughable.

How arrogant that you can impose a limit that is God's alone to decree with the systems that he has made.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1263485



religotardism is an obstacle; another obstacle is the fact that the majority of world countries are corrupt bingo bongo banana states, rational policies are hard to implement

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1225688


agreed, add the greedy multinational enterprises who make more profit from a larger population. they already own the rights to sell water. that should make the 'overpopulation is a myth' tards think.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1404877
Germany
05/28/2011 07:03 PM
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Re: To those who believe that global overpopulation is a myth...
feeding everyone is simple, managing all those people is the hard part.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1396114


You might want to take a look at the crop reports.
Food cant grow on flooded or drought stricken farms.
Temperature fluctuation kills crops also.
Sea food is also dying off rapidly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1400439


Add to that loss of topsoil and the fact that industrial farming uses massive amounts of fertilizers made from dwindling petroleum reserves and you see that this can't go on much longer.

It's a huge population BUBBLE that we're a part of.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1404920


Yes, it is. Europe is already overrun by Africans and people from the East who don't have a future in their own countries due to lack of resources/overpopulation. The majority will live from welfare and eventually, social security will break down. `Sounds good, doesn't it? Do you want them to invade the US?
dukkha

User ID: 1355794
Australia
05/28/2011 07:13 PM
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Re: To those who believe that global overpopulation is a myth...
WORLD WAR III CAN FIX all this in a jiffy.

Wait it will soon be here.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1404806
Australia
05/28/2011 07:14 PM
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Re: To those who believe that global overpopulation is a myth...
It's a myth, tard.

All the world population could live in Australia.

And the rest of the world could be used as a food garden.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1404869


oh Noes....scared
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1093907
United States
05/28/2011 07:16 PM
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Re: To those who believe that global overpopulation is a myth...
Humans are an infestation. All of history's greatest conflicts initiated under swelling populations eventually meeting and ultimately clashing at contested borders. And social engineers wonder why history's ugliest rivalries are always in fact between the closest of neighboring countries.

And fools still blame nationalism, language barriers or flags. A flag didn't steal your job, a language didn't re-direct the river upstream away from your fields downstream. Your natural rival of your environment did, humans, that are programmed in their dna to have their seed thrive and succeed at the expensive of your seed.

We are all, every one of us, nothing more than the morphed, ten fingered stage of the fastest, most vicious, selfish, heartless and aggressive of the literal billions of our father's sperm.

The self-less, self-destructive nature of the liberal "you first" "me second" let's feed everybody's kids regardless of the fact that they'll never stop having kids, totally discounts the reality that those taking from you are programmed to do so in every single fiber in their being.

There is no real gratitude within humans only the culture of the day and the act that culture requires in order to give, take or receive
In order to continue to do so without raising any eyebrows.

Those that take for their own but can't provide know they are cheating natures oldest system to bring their seed to the front of your line.

They breed and will continue to do so from your labor with one ambition, they are winning the numbers game.

This mentality not only cheats nature, and fuels overpopulation, but it's literally destroying present civilization as it's done in the past.

It's slow conquest of violence that once ready to break free swells over your borders and into your country but not until first destroying their own, like locusts, locusts with phony license called social justice.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1404806
Australia
05/28/2011 07:17 PM
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Re: To those who believe that global overpopulation is a myth...
depopulation would start with all the jails, then to all the peeps that cannot put hand to mouth to feed themselves..buh bye Steven Hawkings





GLP