| Users Online Now: 1,632 (Who's On?) | Visitors Today: 511,136 | |
| Pageviews Today: 1,109,247 | Threads Today: 458 | Posts Today: 8,585 |
| 08:25 PM | ||
| Users Online Now: 1,632 (Who's On?) | Visitors Today: 511,136 | |
| Pageviews Today: 1,109,247 | Threads Today: 458 | Posts Today: 8,585 |
| 08:25 PM | ||
Atheists - How do you explain the existence of existence? | |
| Aqabaman Offer Upgrade  User ID: 1159261  United States06/21/2011 10:56 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1382969  Netherlands06/21/2011 11:01 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | This is not a bible-tard thread. If there was no creation or creative force in regards to intelligence, then, as matter can neither be created nor destroyed in the physical realm, matter is eternal. Which would mean there is no real beginning or end. Quoting: AqabamanI have a problem with this in terms of the existence of matter always having existed. The beginning before there was a beginning, in other words. Nothing is nothing. I realize I exist in the finite world now, and have a finite mind. Eternal is eternal, and nothing is nothing. Time exists only as a construct of humans and biology, etc... So, in the mind of an atheist, existence, in one form or another, has always existed? If you truly eliminate God or a creative force from the picture, then the beginning of the beginning never happened. It's always just been? Help me understand. Without proper instruction from a learned atheist, I will never be able to wrap my mind around the fact that existence has always existed. Am dead serious, because you folks, as a group, tend to be much more informed than the relig-tards. But, until you have an reasonable explanation as to how existence has always existed, I'm not sold. I am a weak atheist... I consider all descriptions of any god by any religion to be utterly ridiculous. I know of no evidence that would indicate a supreme being, even less so a supreme being as exactly described in for example the Bible. I don't know what happened prior to the big bang and I don't know what happened in the first few micro seconds. But introducing a godlike being to fill that gap in terms of knowledge for which you have no evidence at all seems rather stupid to me. I rather live in self admitted ignorance then in blind faith. |
| Aqabaman (OP) User ID: 1159261 United States06/21/2011 11:01 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1435339 United States06/21/2011 11:03 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1068718 Netherlands06/21/2011 11:06 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | We cannot answer your question. If you feel more comfortable about a creative diety being there for ever than about energy or matter being there forever then chose the diety. Believing in the diety theory just comes with a lot of moralizing, hypocrite churches who got big by stealing wealth from people. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1382969 Netherlands06/21/2011 11:07 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | seriously, folks. this question, while not one of the typically simple atheist vs. god-believer questions, is not meant to stump. serisously....no repsonses? is everyone stumped? surely not? Quoting: AqabamanIt is a simple deist/agnostic vs atheist discussion. None of the argumentation you gave is valid from a perspective that is a god-believer (as that implies that that person "knows" properties of his/her god image). |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1437304 United States06/21/2011 11:07 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If you believe in God, then you must answer this question: How did God come into existence? If you say "God always existed", then you are willing to accept that there is no beginning of God, and it shouldn't be any problem to accept that it is possible that matter/energy always existed, without a beginning. And if you don't believe that "God always existed", you have to explain how God was created, which could be quite difficult if you believe that God created everything. Your question really doesn't pose much of a problem for an atheist. We're willing to accept that we don't know all of the answers. For all I know, there was once a God that created the universe, and then disappeared. I prefer to focus on the present. Is there any evidence of God right now? I don't see any. |
| Aqabaman (OP) User ID: 1159261 United States06/21/2011 11:08 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | This is not a bible-tard thread. If there was no creation or creative force in regards to intelligence, then, as matter can neither be created nor destroyed in the physical realm, matter is eternal. Which would mean there is no real beginning or end. Quoting: AqabamanI have a problem with this in terms of the existence of matter always having existed. The beginning before there was a beginning, in other words. Nothing is nothing. I realize I exist in the finite world now, and have a finite mind. Eternal is eternal, and nothing is nothing. Time exists only as a construct of humans and biology, etc... So, in the mind of an atheist, existence, in one form or another, has always existed? If you truly eliminate God or a creative force from the picture, then the beginning of the beginning never happened. It's always just been? Help me understand. Without proper instruction from a learned atheist, I will never be able to wrap my mind around the fact that existence has always existed. Am dead serious, because you folks, as a group, tend to be much more informed than the relig-tards. But, until you have an reasonable explanation as to how existence has always existed, I'm not sold. I am a weak atheist... I consider all descriptions of any god by any religion to be utterly ridiculous. I know of no evidence that would indicate a supreme being, even less so a supreme being as exactly described in for example the Bible. I don't know what happened prior to the big bang and I don't know what happened in the first few micro seconds. But introducing a godlike being to fill that gap in terms of knowledge for which you have no evidence at all seems rather stupid to me. I rather live in self admitted ignorance then in blind faith. i actually like your response, dutch-boy. or girl. but, as you must admit, it doesn't answer the question. the only solace you have in your response to it is that you don't claim to be a staunch atheist, i think. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1195940 United States06/21/2011 11:08 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Aqabaman (OP) User ID: 1159261 United States06/21/2011 11:10 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1004920 United States06/21/2011 11:10 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Aqabaman (OP) User ID: 1159261 United States06/21/2011 11:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | how about this? and this is one i've never heard from any side of the aisle...IS IT POSSIBLE THAT BOTH ATHEISTS AND DEISTS ARE INCORRECT IN THEIR ASSUMPTIONS? BOTH ARE WRONG...??? Quoting: Aqabamanin fact, beginning new thread with this question to start fresh. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 690539 United States06/21/2011 11:12 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Consciousness Experiencing Consciousness, with the addition of an Observer to make the experience realized. However the Experience NEVER really happened because at the smallest measurement of time it's proven that in fact there IS NO moment in time because it's always changing. Also in the infinite model of the universe where there is no end this SAME conversation is happening an infinite amount of times there for doesn't exist at all. In other words it's ALL an illusion |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1432199  Ireland06/21/2011 11:13 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1437304 United States06/21/2011 11:14 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | how about this? and this is one i've never heard from any side of the aisle...IS IT POSSIBLE THAT BOTH ATHEISTS AND DEISTS ARE INCORRECT IN THEIR ASSUMPTIONS? BOTH ARE WRONG...??? Quoting: AqabamanWhat assumptions are you talking about? I don't think that I'm making any assumptions, but perhaps you can fill me in as to the assumptions you think I'm making. It is certainly true that assumptions can be incorrect. I think that is the basic principle of atheism - don't make any assumptions at all. Base your opinion on evidence, not assumptions. |
| Aqabaman (OP) User ID: 1159261 United States06/21/2011 11:14 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Consciousness Experiencing Consciousness, with the addition of an Observer to make the experience realized. However the Experience NEVER really happened because at the smallest measurement of time it's proven that in fact there IS NO moment in time because it's always changing. Also in the infinite model of the universe where there is no end this SAME conversation is happening an infinite amount of times there for doesn't exist at all. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 690539In other words it's ALL an illusion and then you do mushrooms as a 19 year old and realize that existence as existence is nothing more than object interaction and energy exchange. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1433669 United States06/21/2011 11:15 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Aqabaman (OP) User ID: 1159261 United States06/21/2011 11:18 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | how about this? and this is one i've never heard from any side of the aisle...IS IT POSSIBLE THAT BOTH ATHEISTS AND DEISTS ARE INCORRECT IN THEIR ASSUMPTIONS? BOTH ARE WRONG...??? Quoting: AqabamanWhat assumptions are you talking about? I don't think that I'm making any assumptions, but perhaps you can fill me in as to the assumptions you think I'm making. It is certainly true that assumptions can be incorrect. I think that is the basic principle of atheism - don't make any assumptions at all. Base your opinion on evidence, not assumptions. didn't mean to slice up word meanings. this is truly a never-ending spiral of debate. to follow your train of though...many relig-tards, though not most, would argue that their faith is based on evidence of god's work. which, as you might argue, would negate what faith is actually supposed to be. it is what it is. glad to see this thread is, as of yet, unhijacked by the militant relig-tards or other variety of cornholes. |
| Mango Positive User ID: 1178327 United States06/21/2011 11:19 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If existence didn't exist, then nothing would exist. I think it's a warping of the zero sum. Nothing exists, but we perceive it as existing due to some construct that has separated that nothingness into matter and anti-matter. As you well know, matter and anti-matter coming into contact with each other produces a burst of energy and nothing. The atoms utterly cancel each other out. Maybe a burst of energy caused nothing to separate somehow. Unfortunately, we'll never have the 15 billion years nor the resources to try to replicate conditions at the dawn of time. 'Faith' is the acknowledgment that you have absolutely no justification for the silly shit you believe. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1437271 United States06/21/2011 11:19 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | This is not a bible-tard thread. If there was no creation or creative force in regards to intelligence, then, as matter can neither be created nor destroyed in the physical realm, matter is eternal. Which would mean there is no real beginning or end. Quoting: AqabamanI have a problem with this in terms of the existence of matter always having existed. The beginning before there was a beginning, in other words. Nothing is nothing. I realize I exist in the finite world now, and have a finite mind. Eternal is eternal, and nothing is nothing. Time exists only as a construct of humans and biology, etc... So, in the mind of an atheist, existence, in one form or another, has always existed? If you truly eliminate God or a creative force from the picture, then the beginning of the beginning never happened. It's always just been? Help me understand. Without proper instruction from a learned atheist, I will never be able to wrap my mind around the fact that existence has always existed. Am dead serious, because you folks, as a group, tend to be much more informed than the relig-tards. But, until you have an reasonable explanation as to how existence has always existed, I'm not sold. Your questions are not unreasonable, and at least your asking questions based on an honest mindset. I could go into a lot of sophisticated dichotomy here but I don't think it will be necessary in your case, just allow me to state the following and then you contemplate the implications. Two things are impossible: 1.) An almighty god. 2.) Nothing. Godel's Incompleteness Theorem proves it. |
| RDprofessor User ID: 1390586 United States06/21/2011 11:21 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 428255  Bulgaria06/21/2011 11:24 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1437194  Germany06/21/2011 11:29 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So far I know for most people the beginning of the world is at their birth. The commen-sense breeded thought about this fact is to subordinate that what is to alive then, let's say the universe, must have a similar creation or have-coming-into-the-world procedure behind it. Not really a surprising self-esteem. |
| Aqabaman (OP) User ID: 1159261 United States06/21/2011 11:30 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | This is not a bible-tard thread. If there was no creation or creative force in regards to intelligence, then, as matter can neither be created nor destroyed in the physical realm, matter is eternal. Which would mean there is no real beginning or end. Quoting: AqabamanI have a problem with this in terms of the existence of matter always having existed. The beginning before there was a beginning, in other words. Nothing is nothing. I realize I exist in the finite world now, and have a finite mind. Eternal is eternal, and nothing is nothing. Time exists only as a construct of humans and biology, etc... So, in the mind of an atheist, existence, in one form or another, has always existed? If you truly eliminate God or a creative force from the picture, then the beginning of the beginning never happened. It's always just been? Help me understand. Without proper instruction from a learned atheist, I will never be able to wrap my mind around the fact that existence has always existed. Am dead serious, because you folks, as a group, tend to be much more informed than the relig-tards. But, until you have an reasonable explanation as to how existence has always existed, I'm not sold. Your questions are not unreasonable, and at least your asking questions based on an honest mindset. I could go into a lot of sophisticated dichotomy here but I don't think it will be necessary in your case, just allow me to state the following and then you contemplate the implications. Two things are impossible: 1.) An almighty god. 2.) Nothing. Godel's Incompleteness Theorem proves it. yes, shall google. this is one thing my overpriced education never taught me. sounds nihilistic. we'll see. |
| Fatstogie User ID: 1315794 United States06/21/2011 11:32 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | No person can explain "existence" in its entirety. Atheism is merely a stage. A rejection of religion. So A real atheist understands. NOt that "theres no god." But that existence is not known. It is not explained. It is revealed. And its better if you have little preconceived notion of what it is. BEcause your fagil psyche may not be able to accept reality because of that mere notion. Last Edited by Fatstogie on 06/21/2011 11:33 AM |
| dupek User ID: 1418498 United States06/21/2011 11:34 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | This is not a bible-tard thread. If there was no creation or creative force in regards to intelligence, then, as matter can neither be created nor destroyed in the physical realm, matter is eternal. Which would mean there is no real beginning or end. Quoting: AqabamanI have a problem with this in terms of the existence of matter always having existed. The beginning before there was a beginning, in other words. Nothing is nothing. I realize I exist in the finite world now, and have a finite mind. Eternal is eternal, and nothing is nothing. Time exists only as a construct of humans and biology, etc... So, in the mind of an atheist, existence, in one form or another, has always existed? If you truly eliminate God or a creative force from the picture, then the beginning of the beginning never happened. It's always just been? Help me understand. Without proper instruction from a learned atheist, I will never be able to wrap my mind around the fact that existence has always existed. Am dead serious, because you folks, as a group, tend to be much more informed than the relig-tards. But, until you have an reasonable explanation as to how existence has always existed, I'm not sold. To create any object out of matter, the matter have to exist. If mystical god was anti-matter, then in collision with matter, everything will be destroyed. Unlike in the bible, you can not create something from nothing. The bullshit about "energy can not be destroyed" was based on religious believes, not science. Human is like old computer, no hard drive, not tape or USB to back up the memory. After one die, the memory is lost, when last cell die. Asking for understanding of beginning is beyond human comprehension. We have no data on this. I believe that human were created by DNA manipulation by more advanced E.T, but who created that E.T?. We can ask that question for ever, since we can not get proper data on this subject. Should be blame some mystical god for this world. Hell, no. One step at a time. |
| Accidental Stoner User ID: 1191993  Finland06/21/2011 11:36 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Fine Material User ID: 1155915 United States06/21/2011 11:38 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | First of all matter is not eternal, energy is. Protons and neutrons have a limited life span, albeit trillions of years. There is a lot of work going on about the origin of the universe and what caused the big bang. Here is a link to the start of a BBC special "Before the Big Bang". |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1437081 United States06/21/2011 11:38 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| LightWarrior11 User ID: 1407980 United States06/21/2011 11:39 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "I need other humans to tell me how the universe began or I'll just believe nothing cause nobody has show me proof" That sounds strange doesnt it "The human machine will finally bleed, The human machine will finally cease to be. So set yourself free, And disengage from reality." |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1373911  Iceland06/23/2011 07:37 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
