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*** Fukushima *** and other nuclear-----updates and links

 
Waterbug  (OP)

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10/11/2011 10:06 PM
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hi waterbug could you tell me what we are actually seeing in the picture you posted taken at night through tepcos pointscope, what is that blue? is it neutrons?, like what were seen at chernobyl "the rainbow of colours" when the top came off the reactor?. or is it heat?.
 Quoting: Rifster


Cherenkov effect.

[link to www.google.com]

The shape of the cherenkov and it's relative position led us to believe there were continuing criticalities in fuel pools. Turns out it was three reactors and ?fuel pools. We couldn't tell from the view.

The cooling stopped. The water turned to steam. The meltdowns happened. Covering that mess back up with seawater caused the cherenkov.

Tepco and the associated agencies and gov'ts said nil about this for three months.

It was reactor 3 and SFP3 that we were seeing I believe.

the glow

:diagram1:

Last Edited by Waterbug on 10/11/2011 10:23 PM
Waterbug  (OP)

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10/11/2011 10:09 PM
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TEPCO ordered to draw up safety guidelines

Japan's nuclear watchdog has ordered the operator of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant to draw up clear safety guidelines to oversee its work to get the plant under control.

Tokyo Electric Power Company is striving to bring the disabled reactors to a state of cold shutdown by next January, and then to begin preparations for their decommissioning.
[link to www3.nhk.or.jp]

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1478654

That is insane! How do you get glowing blobs of Corium that are fifty feet down in the ground to stop having nuclear fissions. We know the nuclear fissioning is going on because of all of the radioactive Iodine that is being released.

How do you get 50 ton melted blobs to shut down????
 Quoting: Argene


Their definition of cold shutdown means the reactor vessel temp. is below 100C.
The corium is never mentioned. Out of sight, out of mind.
ar-15 nut

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10/11/2011 10:27 PM

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thanks bug 5a5agu5adoomfallnote sig hf
A pissed off American veteran.

Merry Christmas. Ya filthy animals!
Waterbug  (OP)

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10/11/2011 10:37 PM
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thanks bug 5a5agu5adoomfallnote sig hf
 Quoting: ar-15 nut


'Those who make constant worry...'

Guess we're contaminated as hell, ain't we AR?

thinker
Southern OR

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10/11/2011 10:50 PM

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hi waterbug could you tell me what we are actually seeing in the picture you posted taken at night through tepcos pointscope, what is that blue? is it neutrons?, like what were seen at chernobyl "the rainbow of colours" when the top came off the reactor?. or is it heat?.
 Quoting: Rifster


Cherenkov effect.

[link to www.google.com]

The shape of the cherenkov and it's relative position led us to believe there were continuing criticalities in fuel pools. Turns out it was three reactors and ?fuel pools. We couldn't tell from the view.

The cooling stopped. The water turned to steam. The meltdowns happened. Covering that mess back up with seawater caused the cherenkov.

Tepco and the associated agencies and gov'ts said nil about this for three months.

It was reactor 3 and SFP3 that we were seeing I believe.

the glow

:diagram1:
 Quoting: Waterbug


^^Yep. I really wish we had been wrong and over reacting. This whole thing still pisses me off!
"Well-behaved women seldom make history." —Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something. And I will not let what I cannot do interfere with what I can do. ~Edward Everett Hale
Southern OR

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10/11/2011 10:51 PM

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Re: *** Fukushima *** and other nuclear-----updates and links
TEPCO ordered to draw up safety guidelines

Japan's nuclear watchdog has ordered the operator of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant to draw up clear safety guidelines to oversee its work to get the plant under control.

Tokyo Electric Power Company is striving to bring the disabled reactors to a state of cold shutdown by next January, and then to begin preparations for their decommissioning.
[link to www3.nhk.or.jp]

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1478654

That is insane! How do you get glowing blobs of Corium that are fifty feet down in the ground to stop having nuclear fissions. We know the nuclear fissioning is going on because of all of the radioactive Iodine that is being released.

How do you get 50 ton melted blobs to shut down????
 Quoting: Argene


Their definition of cold shutdown means the reactor vessel temp. is below 100C.
The corium is never mentioned. Out of sight, out of mind.
 Quoting: Waterbug


Out of site, really means out of containment?
"Well-behaved women seldom make history." —Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something. And I will not let what I cannot do interfere with what I can do. ~Edward Everett Hale
Waterbug  (OP)

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10/11/2011 10:56 PM
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Re: *** Fukushima *** and other nuclear-----updates and links
TEPCO ordered to draw up safety guidelines

Japan's nuclear watchdog has ordered the operator of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant to draw up clear safety guidelines to oversee its work to get the plant under control.

Tokyo Electric Power Company is striving to bring the disabled reactors to a state of cold shutdown by next January, and then to begin preparations for their decommissioning.
[link to www3.nhk.or.jp]

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1478654

That is insane! How do you get glowing blobs of Corium that are fifty feet down in the ground to stop having nuclear fissions. We know the nuclear fissioning is going on because of all of the radioactive Iodine that is being released.

How do you get 50 ton melted blobs to shut down????
 Quoting: Argene


Their definition of cold shutdown means the reactor vessel temp. is below 100C.
The corium is never mentioned. Out of sight, out of mind.
 Quoting: Waterbug


Out of site, really means out of containment?
 Quoting: Southern OR


lol Gonna be a long time till anyone sets eyeballs on any of that.
Waterbug  (OP)

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10/11/2011 11:03 PM
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Fukushima: UK report declares that nuclear power is still safe


Read more: [link to www.theengineer.co.uk]
Waterbug  (OP)

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10/11/2011 11:06 PM
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Residents near Fukushima mountains face nuclear recontamination every rainfall

The unease is especially strong in areas in and around mountains that must be repeatedly decontaminated, as every rainfall brings a new batch of radioactive substance-contaminated leaves and soil washing down from the hills. Since some 70 percent of Fukushima Prefecture is mountainous, such instances of regular recontamination could occur over a broad area, while the same effect has also been observed in some undeveloped areas of cities.

[link to mdn.mainichi.jp]

- damn.
Waterbug  (OP)

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10/11/2011 11:10 PM
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Argonne team helps map Fukushima radiation release

The team measured both the dose rate and the gamma ray spectrum in each area. Gamma ray spectroscopy is a measure of the gamma rays emitted by radioactive particles, and it can be analyzed to determine how much of each different radiological isotope is present. Dose rate is a measure of the dose a human would receive in a particular location over a given amount of time.

The data and samples collected by the teams will be analyzed in labs around the country, providing both information for Japan's recovery and a more detailed understanding of what happens to radioactive material after it's released.

"When radiation disperses from a source, you get a plume that travels, and it changes according to wind, moisture and particulates in the air," explains Argonne RAP scientist Frank Moore. "But once it's laid on the ground, it moves much less."

"To get an accurate picture, you have to measure the same location several times over a period," he says. "Radiological material doesn't just sit there; it migrates into the environment. It can soak into the soil, or can run off in rivers and streams and collect in low areas. Near roadways, it might collect in the ditches. And it can be taken up into plants."

The U.S. Department of State coordinated sharing the data with Japanese authorities, Moore says. They also left several detectors behind and trained both U.S. military and Japanese personnel how to use them.

[link to www.rdmag.com]

- It would be really nice if they would let us in on the data.
Waterbug  (OP)

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10/11/2011 11:19 PM
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Nuclear fears reawaken mass anger

[link to search.japantimes.co.jp]
Waterbug  (OP)

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10/11/2011 11:24 PM
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New nuclear plants get go-ahead

The UK is set to push ahead with a new generation of nuclear power plants after a report into the Fukushima disaster found no reason to curtail the use of reactors here.

The review by chief nuclear inspector Dr Mike Weightman examined the lessons that could be learned for the UK from the crisis at the Fukushima reactor in Japan when it was hit by a magnitude 9 earthquake and subsequent tsunami in March.

It revealed no "fundamental weaknesses" in the regulatory or safety assessment regimes of the UK nuclear industry, although it did outline 38 areas where improvements could be made.

Energy Secretary Chris Huhne said the report showed that reactors could go on supplying homes and businesses with electricity in the UK.

"The report makes clear that the UK has one of the best nuclear safety regimes in the world, and that nuclear power can go on powering homes and businesses across the UK, as well as supporting jobs.

[link to www.google.com]




Gimme a second..........Bwahahaha!

I'm sure the Japanese felt that way as well__ until March 11th.
Anonymous Coward
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10/11/2011 11:41 PM
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How do you get glowing blobs of Corium that are fifty feet down in the ground to stop having nuclear fissions?

You don't.

You dig huge deep holes into the mantle and dump it there by way of gravity so as it gets to certain point, it slides into the hole and drop straight down deep into the mantle, then cover it up with dynamite explosions sealing the hole.

What do we have brains for?
Southern OR

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10/11/2011 11:43 PM

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Residents near Fukushima mountains face nuclear recontamination every rainfall

The unease is especially strong in areas in and around mountains that must be repeatedly decontaminated, as every rainfall brings a new batch of radioactive substance-contaminated leaves and soil washing down from the hills. Since some 70 percent of Fukushima Prefecture is mountainous, such instances of regular recontamination could occur over a broad area, while the same effect has also been observed in some undeveloped areas of cities.

[link to mdn.mainichi.jp]

- damn.
 Quoting: Waterbug


I read that article. My question is, who will pay for it in the long term? Not just the physical aspect, but also the monetary part.
"Well-behaved women seldom make history." —Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something. And I will not let what I cannot do interfere with what I can do. ~Edward Everett Hale
Waterbug  (OP)

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10/11/2011 11:45 PM
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No Nukes: Bringing The Right And Left Together

Finally. Something the right and the left can agree on: nuclear disarmament.

On Tuesday, more than 70 notable people from around the world will convene at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley, Calif. They will beseech international potentates and personages to seriously work toward eradicating nuclear weaponry from the face of the Earth.

To many observers, the idea of undoing what has been done is like trying to put shaving cream back in the can — or, more to the point, radiation back in the warhead.

No surprise that folks like former President Jimmy Carter, former Vice President Walter Mondale, former Sens. Gary Hart and Bob Kerrey and other longtime lefties are signing a nuclear disarmament petition.

But the multilateral appeal is also appealing to members of the traditional right, people who were once hardliners about America's nuclear might. A cadre of the seasoned signatories include people who served under Reagan, a strong advocate of nuclear deterrence in the 1980s. Reagan's secretary of state, George P. Shultz; Reagan's chief of staff, James A. Baker III; and President George H.W. Bush's ambassador to the United Nations, Thomas Pickering, are scheduled to be at the meeting.



[link to www.npr.org]




Is this the Impossible Dream? I hope not but it won't be easy.

Is it even possible at this point to account for all the warheads, suitcase nukes, plutonium or even the multitude of engineers capable of building a nuke?
There is plutonium floating around in Europe as we speak that is not accounted for.
Then you have reactors all over the world that are capable of making plutonium and even Iran has a centrifuge. Can't be that hard to get.

What a mess.

Last Edited by Waterbug on 10/11/2011 11:46 PM
Southern OR

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10/11/2011 11:46 PM

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How do you get glowing blobs of Corium that are fifty feet down in the ground to stop having nuclear fissions?

You don't.

You dig huge deep holes into the mantle and dump it there by way of gravity so as it gets to certain point, it slides into the hole and drop straight down deep into the mantle, then cover it up with dynamite explosions sealing the hole.

What do we have brains for?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1565663


I believe this is the problem. The water table is pretty shallow there. I don't see them blowing a good chunk of Japan up. I think they will continue to hide information until it all just blows up in their face. Then the other world governments can just say "We didn't know how bad it was". Give me a break!
"Well-behaved women seldom make history." —Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something. And I will not let what I cannot do interfere with what I can do. ~Edward Everett Hale
Waterbug  (OP)

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10/11/2011 11:50 PM
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Speak of the devil....



New satellite imagery shows Iranian nuclear sites, watchdog group says

New imagery posted on Google Earth shows evidence Iran continues to build out its nuclear sites, according to a group focused on stopping the spread of nuclear weapons and related technology.

The Institute for Science and International Security said Tuesday it had examined updated commercial satellite imagery of Iran and found evidence of slow, but continuing, build-out of nuclear facilities.

Iran has a controversial nuclear program. Many world powers say it aspires to building nuclear weapons but the country says it is developing nuclear power for peaceful purposes. The U.N. Security Council has imposed sanctions on Iran in an effort to curb its nuclear program.

[link to www.cnn.com]
Southern OR

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10/11/2011 11:52 PM

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Speak of the devil....



New satellite imagery shows Iranian nuclear sites, watchdog group says

New imagery posted on Google Earth shows evidence Iran continues to build out its nuclear sites, according to a group focused on stopping the spread of nuclear weapons and related technology.

The Institute for Science and International Security said Tuesday it had examined updated commercial satellite imagery of Iran and found evidence of slow, but continuing, build-out of nuclear facilities.

Iran has a controversial nuclear program. Many world powers say it aspires to building nuclear weapons but the country says it is developing nuclear power for peaceful purposes. The U.N. Security Council has imposed sanctions on Iran in an effort to curb its nuclear program.

[link to www.cnn.com]
 Quoting: Waterbug


There is no such thing as peaceful purposes. Not one country, including the US, has come up with a viable long term storage plan for spent fuel. If they calculated that "small" problem it would not be cost effective.
"Well-behaved women seldom make history." —Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something. And I will not let what I cannot do interfere with what I can do. ~Edward Everett Hale
Waterbug  (OP)

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10/12/2011 12:00 AM
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Speak of the devil....



New satellite imagery shows Iranian nuclear sites, watchdog group says

New imagery posted on Google Earth shows evidence Iran continues to build out its nuclear sites, according to a group focused on stopping the spread of nuclear weapons and related technology.

The Institute for Science and International Security said Tuesday it had examined updated commercial satellite imagery of Iran and found evidence of slow, but continuing, build-out of nuclear facilities.

Iran has a controversial nuclear program. Many world powers say it aspires to building nuclear weapons but the country says it is developing nuclear power for peaceful purposes. The U.N. Security Council has imposed sanctions on Iran in an effort to curb its nuclear program.

[link to www.cnn.com]
 Quoting: Waterbug


There is no such thing as peaceful purposes. Not one country, including the US, has come up with a viable long term storage plan for spent fuel. If they calculated that "small" problem it would not be cost effective.
 Quoting: Southern OR


Yeah. They've been kicking that can down the road since the beginning. Completely irresponsible of the nuclear industry to avoid this huge and growing problem of nuclear waste. To me, it is a major indictment of the entire industry and a crime against humanity. 1000 years from now and for much longer than that it will still need attention.. Un-fucking-believable.
Waterbug  (OP)

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10/12/2011 12:06 AM
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How do you get glowing blobs of Corium that are fifty feet down in the ground to stop having nuclear fissions?

You don't.

You dig huge deep holes into the mantle and dump it there by way of gravity so as it gets to certain point, it slides into the hole and drop straight down deep into the mantle, then cover it up with dynamite explosions sealing the hole.

What do we have brains for?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1565663


I believe this is the problem. The water table is pretty shallow there. I don't see them blowing a good chunk of Japan up. I think they will continue to hide information until it all just blows up in their face. Then the other world governments can just say "We didn't know how bad it was". Give me a break!
 Quoting: Southern OR


There was a post I made on the old thread concerning a report from an insider who said one of the options considered at the beginning of the meltdowns was to nuke the site. I don't remember the source.

Obviously, they didn't. I'm wondering now if it was the right choice.
Southern OR

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10/12/2011 12:08 AM

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Fairewinds chief engineer Arnie Gundersen discusses three nuclear safety problems uncovered during the Fukushima accident that nuclear regulators and the nuclear industry wish they could ignore. Why isn't the industry designing nuclear plants to withstand the worst natural events? Why aren't nuclear regulators, governments, and citizens who live and work near a nuclear plant prepared for a nuclear accident? How much does the NRC value human life? Finally, Fairewinds' Gundersen concludes that the NRC is not implementing adequate safety changes because the NRC believes that a serious accident is impossible.

[link to fairewinds.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3018010

Pulled from a new thread: Thread: ARNIE GUNDERSEN - Are Regulators And The Nuclear Industry Applying The Valuable Lessons Learned From Fukushima?
"Well-behaved women seldom make history." —Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something. And I will not let what I cannot do interfere with what I can do. ~Edward Everett Hale
Rifster

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10/12/2011 04:26 AM
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hi waterbug could you tell me what we are actually seeing in the picture you posted taken at night through tepcos pointscope, what is that blue? is it neutrons?, like what were seen at chernobyl "the rainbow of colours" when the top came off the reactor?. or is it heat?.
 Quoting: Rifster


Cherenkov effect.

[link to www.google.com]

The shape of the cherenkov and it's relative position led us to believe there were continuing criticalities in fuel pools. Turns out it was three reactors and ?fuel pools. We couldn't tell from the view.

The cooling stopped. The water turned to steam. The meltdowns happened. Covering that mess back up with seawater caused the cherenkov.

Tepco and the associated agencies and gov'ts said nil about this for three months.

It was reactor 3 and SFP3 that we were seeing I believe.

the glow

:diagram1:
 Quoting: Waterbug


thanks waterbug, incredible picture, yet another pivotal moment in the crisis of fukushima.
so if "doom" could glow this is what it would look like, we are screwed....verysad

once again thanks for reply.
Waterbug  (OP)

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10/13/2011 01:08 AM
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Arnie exposes the NRC.


Waterbug  (OP)

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10/14/2011 07:26 PM
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Tokyo radiation hotspot 'not linked to Fukushima'

Elevated levels of radiation found in a residential area of Tokyo are almost certainly not connected to the stricken Fukushima nuclear plant, say officials.

[link to www.bbc.co.uk]


- Of course it's not linked to Fuku.
Why would anyone think that?
Hugh M Eye

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10/14/2011 10:44 PM
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Nuclear Power Industry Likely to Grow says Britain's Royal Society:

[link to news.sciencemag.org]

They maybe should wait a few years to assess the Fuku-Fallout first.

Keep up the great work Waterbug!:
applause::hi:headbangapplause
Waterbug  (OP)

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10/15/2011 06:36 AM
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Nuclear Power Industry Likely to Grow says Britain's Royal Society:

[link to news.sciencemag.org]

They maybe should wait a few years to assess the Fuku-Fallout first.

Keep up the great work Waterbug!:
applause::hi:headbangapplause
 Quoting: Hugh M Eye


You are welcome.

Be nice to know why I have been banned. Had to use all my good karma to get immunity.
Waterbug  (OP)

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10/15/2011 06:38 AM
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Citizens’ Testing Finds 20 Hot Spots Around Tokyo

[link to www.nytimes.com]
Waterbug  (OP)

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10/15/2011 06:40 AM
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Radioactive plankton found near Fukushima plant

Researchers say high concentrations of radioactive caesium have been detected in plankton in the Pacific Ocean off the shattered Fukushima nuclear plant.

[link to www.abc.net.au]

- There goes the food chain.
Aunty Flo

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10/15/2011 06:41 AM
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Nice thread Waterbug. Well done hfhfhf
Waterbug  (OP)

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10/15/2011 06:42 AM
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Paper Shows Japan Feared Aftershocks at Nuke Plant

[link to abcnews.go.com]





GLP