Pre-trib rapture is a lie. Here is Revelation fulfilled. | |
Librarian User ID: 1305614 ![]() 08/14/2011 08:41 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Dellifluf Noitalever (OP) User ID: 1505148 ![]() 08/14/2011 08:54 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Jerusalem is Babylon - That great city that killed the prophets. Quoting: Librarian 1305614I won't deny the truth in your statement. But you must understand, when John speaks of Babylon, he says there are seven kings, "one is and one is yet to come, and...the eighth, even he is of the seven and goeth into perdition." One is: Rome One is yet to come: America, seventh Babylon The eighth that goes into perdition: the Beast's kingdom, with its capital in Jerusalem. This is after the destruction of America and during the Great Tribulation. Babylon is America right now. Someday it will be Jerusalem and it too shall be destroyed at the coming of Jesus Christ at the sound of the last trump. Daniel 11:45 "And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him." "A vote for anyone BUT Ron Paul is a wasted vote." |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1505029 ![]() 08/14/2011 09:01 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Christians have known for 1800 years the Roman Church is the Mystery Babylon Mother of Harlots. Until you identify her and the beast she rider for 1260 years you will also fail to correctly identify the fulfilled seals. [link to en.wikipedia.org] |
Dellifluf Noitalever (OP) User ID: 1505434 ![]() 08/14/2011 03:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Christians have known for 1800 years the Roman Church is the Mystery Babylon Mother of Harlots. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1505029Until you identify her and the beast she rider for 1260 years you will also fail to correctly identify the fulfilled seals. [link to en.wikipedia.org] The Roman Church has about as much influence as a fart in the wind these days. The Catholic church was a very likely candidate for Babylon during a certain period of time; BUT, that time has passed. Get out of your "Left Behind" mentality and wake up to the way God operates by carefully examining scriptures exegetically and logically. "A vote for anyone BUT Ron Paul is a wasted vote." |
alexblanelayder User ID: 1422307 ![]() 08/14/2011 05:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | the LORD God promises to keep his from the Wrath "bowls, vile" but his seals and trumpets from scripture he may send his "church-ekklesia-called out" for refining or even to be martyrs. for the collection of souls under the alter. i believe the E.U., U.N. and the N.A.U may pull a staged demonic-fallen angel manifestation event to usher in the beast system. just like the days of Noah the days of LOT and the tower of babal shalom Aleichem |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1502094 ![]() 08/14/2011 05:33 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | the last trumpet spoken in a mystery written by Paul, matches up to the 7th trumpet mystery in revelation. Quoting: alexblanelayder 1422307the LORD God promises to keep his from the Wrath "bowls, vile" but his seals and trumpets from scripture he may send his "church-ekklesia-called out" for refining or even to be martyrs. for the collection of souls under the alter. i believe the E.U., U.N. and the N.A.U may pull a staged demonic-fallen angel manifestation event to usher in the beast system. just like the days of Noah the days of LOT and the tower of babal shalom Aleichem Noah is a stolen story. It is thousands of years older than the story from the Talmud. Wake up please. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1502094 ![]() 08/14/2011 05:33 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
James User ID: 1505029 ![]() 08/14/2011 05:35 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Well you would be mistaken to claim Rome has no influence today... first off the book of Daniel chapter 2, there is the millennial man statue which tells us there are four kingdoms until the Second Coming. The fourth is Rome's. Then in Daniel 7 more detail is given about the kingdom/empires, given that Rome falls into a religions kingdom which persecutes the saints of God for "time, times and a half" (3.5 years or 1260 days/years). The same descriptors are then found in Revelation chapter 13, including the 42 months (1260 days/years). Also in Rev 13 is "another beast" who gives a deadly wound to the first beast/empire. This was fulfilled in 1798 at the end of the 1260 years of dark ages when the masonic illuminati began the revolutions and dissolved the Papal States. The masonic illuminati is just another head of the Roman Empire. The beast with seven heads (Rev 13 & 17) babylonian characteristics come from Daniel 7 (count the heads-total=7). The seventh head was Rome's empire. Rev 17, has an 8th head "which is of the 7th", that is Rome's empire. The 8th head is the "another beast" the masonic-illuminati. 7th head - old world order 8th head - new world order |
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Dellifluf Noitalever (OP) User ID: 1505777 ![]() 08/14/2011 10:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Well you would be mistaken to claim Rome has no influence today... first off the book of Daniel chapter 2, there is the millennial man statue which tells us there are four kingdoms until the Second Coming. The fourth is Rome's. Quoting: James 1505029Then in Daniel 7 more detail is given about the kingdom/empires, given that Rome falls into a religions kingdom which persecutes the saints of God for "time, times and a half" (3.5 years or 1260 days/years). The same descriptors are then found in Revelation chapter 13, including the 42 months (1260 days/years). Also in Rev 13 is "another beast" who gives a deadly wound to the first beast/empire. This was fulfilled in 1798 at the end of the 1260 years of dark ages when the masonic illuminati began the revolutions and dissolved the Papal States. The masonic illuminati is just another head of the Roman Empire. The beast with seven heads (Rev 13 & 17) babylonian characteristics come from Daniel 7 (count the heads-total=7). The seventh head was Rome's empire. Rev 17, has an 8th head "which is of the 7th", that is Rome's empire. The 8th head is the "another beast" the masonic-illuminati. 7th head - old world order 8th head - new world order What don't you get? This is like Middle Ages thinking. Get out of it. The paradigm has shifted and we see the Beast was NOT Rome or the Roman Catholic Church. Now that we are in the time of the end, we see just what God meant by Babylon (America) fulfilling all the requirements stated in Rev 17 and 18. "A vote for anyone BUT Ron Paul is a wasted vote." |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1396103 ![]() 08/14/2011 11:02 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
James User ID: 1505029 ![]() 08/14/2011 11:04 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The mother of harlots is a church not a country. The Bible defines its own symbolism; the bride of christ is His church. The harlot is the anti christ false church at Rome. The nwo is bigger than America. America, the UN, EU, IMF ect ect, all part of the NWO. The masonic nwo founded the state of Israel as a religious endtime deception. This is no speculation, we have the books they wrote about it back in 1590, for counter-reformation. [link to www.reformation.org] |
Dellifluf Noitalever (OP) User ID: 1505777 ![]() 08/15/2011 12:01 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | i agree no pre rapture, but the rest of your theory is weak. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1396103America is Babylon. It's irrelevant how weak my theory is. The mother of harlots is a church not a country. The Bible defines its own symbolism; the bride of christ is His church. The harlot is the anti christ false church at Rome. Quoting: James 1505029The nwo is bigger than America. America, the UN, EU, IMF ect ect, all part of the NWO. The masonic nwo founded the state of Israel as a religious endtime deception. This is no speculation, we have the books they wrote about it back in 1590, for counter-reformation. [link to www.reformation.org] You have no scriptural foundation for your logic. All you have is "Left Behind", Seventh-Day Adventist, American Christianity thinking. The Bible does define it's own symbolism. Babylon is a great city that is the global shipping and trading center and military power of the world. That is NOT Rome. Besides, as messed up as Catholicism is, I know several devout Christians who are Catholics (they're a little mislead, I'll agree.) However, they are FOR Christ, not against Him. "A vote for anyone BUT Ron Paul is a wasted vote." |
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Jenann User ID: 1465884 ![]() 08/15/2011 12:30 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Some think that all the seals, trumpets and bowls must take place in the seven year period. I cannot find any scripture to back that up. My plea to believers is not too feel too secure about a pre-trib rapture and to be prepared for what may come, even martyrdom. Regarding the trumpets, I am wondering if anyone out there has encountered this: That trumpet three may have been Chernobyl since Chernobyl is the Russian word for Wormood and also because Chernobyl is a bitter herb. And That trumpet five may have been the Gulf War since Saddam when translated means destroyer, and destroyer is the meaning of Abbadan and Apollyn. And if the above is true, then trumpets one and two have to do with WW1 and WW2, and trumpet four has to do with global dimming. Also Seal one:, the rider on the white horse represents the papacy Seal two: the rider on the red horse represents communism/socialism Seal three: the rider on the black horse represents capitalism Seal four: the rider on the pale (can also be translated green) horse is Islam |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1503753 ![]() 08/15/2011 12:34 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Well I'm too tired to get into it now, but I've read a ton on it. I would have to agree. We are going to live THRU the Tribulation and the Second Coming is when Jesus comes to defend Israel at Armageddon. Still, as many people say, it's not a salvation issue. So, I am also on a Pre-Trib website with those who are waiting for Jesus to come at any moment. It irritates me sometimes that keep thinking they'll be snatched away at any moment. I think they are already disillusioned with what they are seeing, and will continue to be disillusioned as they see the Tribulation continue to unfold. It does not affect salvation of their souls, which is important to remember. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1503753 ![]() 08/15/2011 12:36 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I don't agree with all you say. I do, however believe in a pre-wrath rapture that would have believers raptured before the bowls. Quoting: JenannSome think that all the seals, trumpets and bowls must take place in the seven year period. I cannot find any scripture to back that up. My plea to believers is not too feel too secure about a pre-trib rapture and to be prepared for what may come, even martyrdom. Regarding the trumpets, I am wondering if anyone out there has encountered this: That trumpet three may have been Chernobyl since Chernobyl is the Russian word for Wormood and also because Chernobyl is a bitter herb. And That trumpet five may have been the Gulf War since Saddam when translated means destroyer, and destroyer is the meaning of Abbadan and Apollyn. And if the above is true, then trumpets one and two have to do with WW1 and WW2, and trumpet four has to do with global dimming. Also Seal one:, the rider on the white horse represents the papacy Seal two: the rider on the red horse represents communism/socialism Seal three: the rider on the black horse represents capitalism Seal four: the rider on the pale (can also be translated green) horse is Islam Much of what you say is outlined by Pastor Irvin Baxter. You can do a search on him. He does a great daily radio show and also has a TV show on a couple of those big Christian networks. His shows are REALLY informative on current events and prophecy. |
Jenann User ID: 1465884 ![]() 08/15/2011 12:50 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I don't agree with all you say. I do, however believe in a pre-wrath rapture that would have believers raptured before the bowls. Quoting: JenannSome think that all the seals, trumpets and bowls must take place in the seven year period. I cannot find any scripture to back that up. My plea to believers is not too feel too secure about a pre-trib rapture and to be prepared for what may come, even martyrdom. Regarding the trumpets, I am wondering if anyone out there has encountered this: That trumpet three may have been Chernobyl since Chernobyl is the Russian word for Wormood and also because Chernobyl is a bitter herb. And That trumpet five may have been the Gulf War since Saddam when translated means destroyer, and destroyer is the meaning of Abbadan and Apollyn. And if the above is true, then trumpets one and two have to do with WW1 and WW2, and trumpet four has to do with global dimming. Also Seal one:, the rider on the white horse represents the papacy Seal two: the rider on the red horse represents communism/socialism Seal three: the rider on the black horse represents capitalism Seal four: the rider on the pale (can also be translated green) horse is Islam Much of what you say is outlined by Pastor Irvin Baxter. You can do a search on him. He does a great daily radio show and also has a TV show on a couple of those big Christian networks. His shows are REALLY informative on current events and prophecy. Yes, he is actually one of my sources....I should have mentioned that. There are a fair number of others who believe that we are well into the trumpets. I have been studying this intensely for many years now, and I think what I outlined above is at least plausible. The best thing these theories have done for me is to get me out of the pre-trib assumption that I will escape all of it. I used to feel certain that the pre-trib view was correct, and now I'm not certain about any of it except for escaping the bowl judgments. The alternative that Baxter and others put forth has helped me come to terms with what I may have to endure. It was pretty scary, but I deliberately pictured myself under threat of being beheaded, and as much as is humanly possible, I have come to terms with it. Thank God that He will be me whatever happens. |
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Dellifluf Noitalever (OP) User ID: 1505962 ![]() 08/15/2011 05:43 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1478702 ![]() 08/15/2011 08:20 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 6th Seal: The whole world goes black for an unspecified amount of time. The great ones of the earth hide in fear in the mountains and in caves. They cry out that the Day of the Lord and His wrath is about to begin. The Day of the Lord is much longer than a human 24 hour day. Then the 144,000 of Israel are sealed from harm. They will remain on earth. Then a very large group from all the nations is discussed standing in heaven. They can wear robes and have palm branches in their hands. These are the believers in Christ who have been caught up by angels. They will attend the marriage supper of the Lamb and later return with Christ on horses when Christ comes to destroy the armies arrayed against Him. We will be given our eternal bodies when those who have previously died are resurrected.....which will occur soon after these events. God has not appointed us to wrath......namely His wrath. God's wrath: 7th Seal: duration: 1-2 years; the final section of Daniel's 70th week. |
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 1506046 ![]() 08/15/2011 08:36 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Babylon is America right now. Someday it will be Jerusalem and it too shall be destroyed at the coming of Jesus Christ at the sound of the last trump. Quoting: Dellifluf NoitaleverUSA i still just an upstart, if you knew where USA is in scripture you wouldn't say bs like this. I'm not going to tell you, USA is in there, obviously this has been concealed for you. Oh and a hint Mystery Babylon is a spirit. |
Dellifluf Noitalever (OP) User ID: 1505962 ![]() 08/15/2011 08:42 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 6th Seal: The whole world goes black for an unspecified amount of time. The great ones of the earth hide in fear in the mountains and in caves. They cry out that the Day of the Lord and His wrath is about to begin. The Day of the Lord is much longer than a human 24 hour day. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1478702Then the 144,000 of Israel are sealed from harm. They will remain on earth. Then a very large group from all the nations is discussed standing in heaven. They can wear robes and have palm branches in their hands. These are the believers in Christ who have been caught up by angels. They will attend the marriage supper of the Lamb and later return with Christ on horses when Christ comes to destroy the armies arrayed against Him. We will be given our eternal bodies when those who have previously died are resurrected.....which will occur soon after these events. God has not appointed us to wrath......namely His wrath. God's wrath: 7th Seal: duration: 1-2 years; the final section of Daniel's 70th week. Two fundamental problems with your theory: 1) You ignore the timing of this vision. It is stated right in the text in Rev 7:14 "...these are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION..." 2) You mistakenly believe that God's wrath is the same as the enemy's wrath against us. God has not appointed us to wrath, but the enemy has been given power to hurt and kill us to try us and make us white. Daniel 7:21 "...this same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them." The enemy has been given power to purge us and try our faith. It will not be a comfortable rapture-ride out. "A vote for anyone BUT Ron Paul is a wasted vote." |
James User ID: 1505029 ![]() 08/15/2011 08:48 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | That "Great City" of Revelation, like the "beast" is a symbol. The Great City is a symbol of Rome's empire described in Rev 18. Babylon fell in 1870 when Rome's Papal States were dissolved by the masonic illuminati's nwo founded republics. This was the 5th vial. Again, until You identify the 1260 years papal Rome persecuted God's saints during those dark ages you will fail to understand the fulfilled seals. [link to www.revelationbibleprophecy.org] |
James User ID: 1505029 ![]() 08/15/2011 08:53 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | >1) You ignore the timing of this vision. It is stated right in the text in Rev 7:14 "...these are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION..." - The 144,000 are God's people. The passage is symbolic of God's people spiritual Israel - Christianity. The New City has twelve gates. Only Spiritual Israel enters the city. Claiming these are physical Jews and some future tribulation is the Jesuit's Futurist theology. |
Dellifluf Noitalever (OP) User ID: 1505962 ![]() 08/15/2011 08:57 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Babylon is America right now. Someday it will be Jerusalem and it too shall be destroyed at the coming of Jesus Christ at the sound of the last trump. Quoting: Dellifluf NoitaleverUSA i still just an upstart, if you knew where USA is in scripture you wouldn't say bs like this. I'm not going to tell you, USA is in there, obviously this has been concealed for you. Oh and a hint Mystery Babylon is a spirit. Hmm. Go read my blog. Mystery Babylon is a spirit huh? Have you even read the description of Mystery Babylon in Revelation 18? That's not the description of a spirit, it's the description of a nation/state. Besides "spirit" as far as the Bible is concerned is the "breath of life." When you die, your spirit returns to the one who made it: Eccl 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." "A vote for anyone BUT Ron Paul is a wasted vote." |
Dellifluf Noitalever (OP) User ID: 1505962 ![]() 08/15/2011 09:03 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | >1) You ignore the timing of this vision. It is stated right in the text in Rev 7:14 "...these are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION..." Quoting: James 1505029- The 144,000 are God's people. The passage is symbolic of God's people spiritual Israel - Christianity. The New City has twelve gates. Only Spiritual Israel enters the city. Claiming these are physical Jews and some future tribulation is the Jesuit's Futurist theology. James, as a Christian, I love you. But as a theologian, I despise this Babylonian Christianity garbage. I believed in similar crap when I started my walk with Christ and spent ten years diligently reading the scriptures before I came to the realization that I believed some messed up stuff. It wasn't until I sat down and wrote my book, "Beyond Millennium", and I spent roughly 250 hours solid researching the events that would have to happen for every eschatology scripture to be fulfilled that I realized I was way off track. Your ideas aren't sound to say the least. But that's okay, people grow in knowledge. My advice to you is don't settle with the knowledge you have now. The biggest problem you fail to realize is that there is an entire part of the Bible called the "Old Testament" that is chock full of prophecy about God calling Israel back to their homeland under the Messiah (who we know is Jesus Christ). He also talks about maintaining the establishment of Levitical priests, etc, and the honoring of Sabbaths and Festivals, etc in the earthly kingdom to come (which we know as the Millennial Kingdom) in which resurrected saints will also rule. Read Ezekiel chs 40-48 and Zechariah ch 14. Last Edited by Dellifluf Noitalever on 08/15/2011 09:07 AM "A vote for anyone BUT Ron Paul is a wasted vote." |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1194370 ![]() 08/15/2011 09:04 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. - (Luke 12:40) [link to godsview.com] peace, |