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I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question

 
Kura

User ID: 670006
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05/02/2009 11:54 AM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
and I will answer them in short.

Why?
Because I can.
 Quoting: Insider 0


Dear Insider!
I believe that you review all posts every time.
How can I get out from this Prison? I can't see purposes for living. I'm tired from this life. I'm embarrassed 5 years already.
Kura

User ID: 670006
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05/02/2009 11:54 AM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
and I will answer them in short.

Why?
Because I can.
 Quoting: Insider 0


Dear Insider!
I believe that you review all posts every time.
How can I get out from this Prison? I can't see purposes for living. I'm tired from this life. I'm embarrassed 5 years already.
Kura

User ID: 670006
Norway
05/02/2009 12:00 PM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
I'm not mad. I don't know for What I live!
Kura

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05/02/2009 12:01 PM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
I'm not mad. I don't know for What I live!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 566157
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05/02/2009 12:05 PM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
WILL YOU SUCK MY FUCKING COCK? ANSWER YES/NO ONLY.
prisoner
User ID: 670051
Russian Federation
05/02/2009 12:54 PM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
It's a question to Trinity. why U deleted the original text of Insider? it's not a democratic way! could U restore his text & text of qustions?
Logos666
User ID: 670109
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05/02/2009 02:17 PM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
EBI, my point was merely to keep refuting your basic attempts at disinforming and distracting

from the valid points I raised against the truth claims by this "Insider".

Beyond uncovering what you try to cover, your posts have no interest to me.





In that context, refuting liberation through accumulating results of the conditioned self's activity is relevant since it was also implied by "Insider".

This is enough to expose him and whoever agrees with this point as completely ignorant regarding the topics on which he (and those like him) posed as a kind of expert.






I take great pleasure in shredding foolish attempts to cover up the avalanche of blunders such as this one by "Insider".

I do this for the record of this thread since this is where people will arrive if google this thread after reading the pdf (this is how I got here).


You are of no concern to me beyond that, I am sort of availing myself of your services as a good example of a deluded demagogue. The more you try, the better for this purpose.





Believe it or not, it is a fact that I usually stop reading after the first mistake I see (usually your first line)

Of course I cannot always absolutely block my eye from every word a casual glance reveals.
Logos666
User ID: 670109
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05/02/2009 02:18 PM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
If you do not have a sense of separateness, nothing, absolutely nothing can cause suffering.

So that's the test. Are you always perfectly happy under all circumstances, regardless of the amount of pain and so forth ? Like a crucifixion, for instance.
 Quoting: Logos666 669752




Talk is cheap

so check out this one if you (anyone) implicitly assume you could be beyond conditioning:




The following in no way implies a consent or dissent to such an action. At the very least one needs to know exactly what one is doing before this could possibly make any sense.

Notice, however, during the close ups especially, the almost complete absence of impulsive physical reactions to the extreme "pain" (it is questionable whether one can call it that in an arahant).

This can hardly be accomplished through will power, especially so close to the ensuing loss of consciousness (the hands are raised in prayer, BTW, from before he started the action):

Logos666
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05/02/2009 03:24 PM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
You are of no concern to me beyond that
 Quoting: Logos666 670109


that is as far as this thread is concerned, of course.
E.B.I.
User ID: 670401
Egypt
05/02/2009 10:15 PM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
Disinforming am i?

Was I the one who kept posting books and videos down peoples throats? Was I the one who tried to downtalk every one within reach?

As for stopping to read after finding the first mistake that makes it clear then, you don’t post for a civil conversation, no, you only post to find mistakes and try to flame people for it.

As for the argument about liberation, it was not me who started it, and also no people can liberate themselves, once they realize that they can do it, also if they were not blind followers to religion and fake “masters”.

I have explained this a lot and from different angles,

Also I am not covering for any one you merely mention the point you argue and if I find a misunderstanding I post back explaining and correcting,

I did not flame you or call you names I merely, unlike you, posted without prejudice.

You are the one who proved you are not here for arguing in a civil way, but you are here to merely flame and debunk the thread,

As for me playing on peoples’ emotions, it was not me who kept referring to religion and referring to pointless “blunders” and giving exaggerated message like “don’t get fooled” or “don’t fall for this guy”,

Now if you have seen an attempt by me to “disinform” I would be glad if you mention it and let me explain it.

Also it is not the purpose of life to only be happy, this is another trick, the same one as love,

It is not enough to be happy all the time or to have love alone, both are dead ends to make you stop searching deeper, your sole purpose is better to be evolution and advancement, trying to know your surroundings away from illusions, trying to seek the truth of your existence, not following blindly religious leaders or gurus or masters, this is something you have to do alone, and only for you, do not try to fix what is outside before you fix what is inside.
E.B.I.
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Egypt
05/02/2009 10:19 PM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
do not let anyone shape your beliefs for you, no, you would do better to shape it for yourself.
E.B.I.
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Egypt
05/02/2009 10:40 PM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
also about refuting "liberation" because insider implied it, means that you refuted the point merely because he said otherwise, becareful your prejudice is showing.
Logos666
User ID: 670575
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05/03/2009 05:15 AM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
I read your first and the last lines.

Disinforming am i?
 Quoting: E.B.I. 670401


Yes.

And that's a rather mild way of putting it:

Or do you instead think you need to repeat

illogical retorts

putting words in your opponents mouth

and seeing personal offense where there is none ?
 Quoting: Logos666 669752



For example:

also about refuting "liberation" because insider implied it, means that you refuted the point merely because he said otherwise, becareful your prejudice is showing.
 Quoting: E.B.I. 670401


Reading impediment or worse on your side (see below)

(besides I did not refute liberation, bwaha, but that it can happen within the conditioning of the delusion of separateness).


no matter what the conditioned self produces

being dependent on those conditions

is equally dependent on those same conditions

and that hence anything arising out of the conditioned self's activity alone


will only result in another product of these conditions and can therefore never be salvific.



This part is not my or anyone's opinion. It is cogent, obvious and inescapable even for God since it is tautological.

Whoever cannot see the truth of a tautology is not stupid because I call him so or because I am offending him, but simply because not recognizing a tautology is an extreme case of stupidity.
 Quoting: Logos666 668938



Your retorts are full of this kind of false propaganda like I quoted from your reply further above, and hence I do not read through them.

For the record I used to pick out a mistake in your retorts now and then so that people will be aware of what is going on here.


 Quoting: Logos666 670109



Apparently it is going to become a last-word-contest now, and I am sure you will post another inane reply just to see how far I will take it.

I guess whoever hasn't recognized your posts for what they are isn't going to from now on either, so in that case I will signal the end of our discourse with posting a mere song or so. Form that point on I will ignore you completely, first and last lines and all.

Take care, you lovely being behind your dewilderment.






Note 8:30-8:35


 Quoting: Logos666 668056












In contrast, perhaps, notice the short part concerning this special cow in the video I posted earlier, and which the Maharishi insisted actually found moksha in his presence (this was no concession to hindu conventions at all):








A freaking COW found liberation !!!


"But didn't "Insider" talk about a hierarchy of higher beings and about ascending from earth which is a prison and if you use the right rituals...

And didn't this other guy suggest we need all kinds of quaffalistic complications for spiritual liberation ?
"



The "esoteric complications" are most necessary to understand truth, [this was EMI]





I say: ask the Cow what she thinks of all that.








"mooooooooooooooooooooooo"







I guess that's cowish for "bullshit".






[link to www.amazon.com]

[link to www.amazon.com]

[link to www.amazon.com]
 Quoting: Logos666 669028













What is it that characterizes "a certain stage of development" where the conditioning can be broken ?

As I said before: it is the thorough understanding that it cannot save itself and gives up completely.

That is maturity: being a child of God (not some bullshit supernatural conditioned capacities).

That is "the place where you live" that "Insider" must have spoken of in order not to be deluded: your own inescapable conditioning about which the conditioned self alone can do nothing at all because all conditioned action contaminates the result with that same conditioning.


and if a direct - not merely logical - understanding of this happens



that
is the "tool" it can "use" which might s(h)ave it





all the other graduated or immediate means are mainly metis/upaya to get it there.


Can true freedom be seen until bondage is fully understood ?

Rather simple really.

The rest is mainly patience, equanimity, purifying and filling your psychic lamps, wearing out selfishness and waiting for the grace of the Lord.

[link to www.newadvent.org]

 Quoting: Logos666 668938







E.B.I.
User ID: 670401
Egypt
05/03/2009 06:24 AM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
You did refute self liberation when you made the loss of the sense of separation and individuality necessary for it,

You may enjoy the sense of being a part from the nature or what have you, however at this stage you need the sense of separateness and individuality to focus on fixing what is inside before you focus on being in harmony with the outside, first you have to be in harmony with your “self”.

If you lose the sense of separation and yield to a leader or a common conformity (like religion) to shape your beliefs for you then you cannot be liberated, you will remain conditioned to accept certain beliefs made by others for you.

Also as insider said, keep nothing between you and the divine.

You are free to ignore my posts. However, I also, rather like you, post for the record of the thread so people who get in here see both sides of the story.
Logos666
User ID: 670575
Germany
05/03/2009 07:26 AM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
[*] this addition is rather dubious and your own invention, again putting words in my mouth. In fact, "individuality" as a conventional, practical truth is only possible because there is no separate existence.

Even the Buddha still said "I am awakened" (and not you - for instance).

As usual you demonstrate a very, shall I say, "Kentucky Fried" approach to spiritual truths.

You did refute self liberation when you made the loss of the sense of separation and individuality [*] necessary for it
 Quoting: E.B.I. 670401


No, I only deny that liberation is a state in which a being could "enter" and maintain its sense of separateness. And that "entry" can happen due to its own volition which is intrinsically separative due to the very fact it views things from the POV of separation.

Hence, in order to "enter", separative volition must undergo cessation. Naturally, this cannot be the result of a volition.

Note 8:30-8:35


 Quoting: Logos666 670575


And hence the whole devotional truth: it is not directed towards another separate entity (**), but towards non-separation, catch the drift finally ? And since that is unimaginable anyhow, it doesn't matter so much what form it takes as long as it is not of this (**) kind.




So did I deny liberation ?

To know that the light depends on both the sun and the eye to see it and has no self-essence doesn't keep it from shining. In fact, this inseparability is what makes it shine.





As this enlightened catholic (in the true sense)



says: "God is everything - except the self", that is except the delusion of separation within its totality and the seeming products thereof.

__________


The "self" does not really exist anyway. The end of that delusion is not the end of the brilliance of the basic nature of what you now think your mind is. In fact it ends the impediments to that brilliance.

Hence tend of "self" does not mean the end absolute. That would be the erroneus assumption basic to your first line.

If a rope gets unknotted, of course it isn't the knot that enters unknottedness. The knot has just ended. But that doesn't mean there is no such thing as unknottedness.

What ends is the conditioned _content_:

[link to www.youtube.com]
Logos666
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05/03/2009 07:29 AM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
What ends is the conditioned _content_:
 Quoting: Logos666 670575



Logos666
User ID: 670575
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05/03/2009 07:41 AM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
Don't you agree that this should be enough ?

I'll leave the last word to you now (of course, I might speak to others on demand).

I will signal the end of our discourse with posting a mere song or so.
 Quoting: Logos666 670575





Since it is beyond the word-bound mind, It gather it might as well be Japanese.



E.B.I.
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Egypt
05/03/2009 09:16 AM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
Very well, let me make this very clear,

The individuality is not a result of non-separateness,

The individuality is a character of separateness, our spirits or as you may call it "self", is a creation of a source,

Your creations are not necessary you, they are separate from you to a certain extent,

liberation is not as you portray a one phase state, liberation and advancement exist on different scales, liberation from this earthly life depends on you individually, you are not like macrocosmic spirits yet, you are not a part of nature yet,

The existence you described is the existence of macrocosmic forces; they are phases of creation,

also people you deal with are not you, they are separate from you, being created from one source doesn't mean you are all one and the same, being created doesn't always mean that you are a part of the creator, you get separated from the creator and you get an intelligence and free will,

eventually people join, as they say, the light of the creator then pass into negative existence, the opposite of the manifest existence you lead,

During all this you keep your consciousness and traits; you confuse the souls who are microcosmic in nature and the macrocosmic force of the universe, the phases of its creation.

People who say that they are you and you are them are mistaken, because they are separate from you in this existence, and your spirits are not the same, albeit they are created from the same source.

Even the macrocosmic force in the universe are separate from each other when they manifest, despite the fact that the creator force contains the potential of all of them, and so are we, created from one source but once we are manifest we are separate and lead separate existence from each other, existing separately that is.

The knot is a part of the robe, but if you tie a robe with another and one of them gets untied then the untied robe enters unknotedness.

Your existence and the macrocosmic forces you seek to join are like the two robes, they are separate but are knotted together, why?

Because each macrocosmic force does have a representative microcosmic force inside of you.
E.B.I.
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Egypt
05/03/2009 09:19 AM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
also i would like to add that macrocosmic forces to us are microcosmic to the universe.
Anonymous Coward
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05/03/2009 09:23 AM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
also i would like to add that macrocosmic forces to us are microcosmic to the universe.
 Quoting: E.B.I. 670401

that is that what was enforsed upon humans
.......the concept in the matrix
E.B.I.
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Egypt
05/03/2009 09:26 AM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
also i would like to add that macrocosmic forces to us are microcosmic to the universe.
 Quoting: E.B.I. 670401


why? because as insider said, the universe is a living entity.
Logos666
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05/03/2009 10:10 AM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
Since it is beyond the word-bound mind, I gather it might as well be Japanese.




 Quoting: Logos666 670575




translation


Sutra Cordis Magnae Sapientiae Transcendentis

OM - LAUDETUR DOMINA NOBILISSIMA SAPIENTIA TRANSCENDENS

Bodhisattva Avalokita,
profundam Sapientiam transcendentem excolens,
quinque complexuum vacuam naturam conspexit,
et hoc modo omnes dolores superavit.

- Shariputra, forma dissimilis non est vacuitatis,
vacuitas dissimilis formae non est.
Forma est vacuitas, vacuitas forma est.
Idem accidit sensibus, perceptionibus, propensionibus, conscientiis.

- Shariputra, omnia phaenomena natura vacua sunt:
non nata neque exstincta, non pura neque impura,
non crescentia neque decrescentia.
Ideo in vacuitate
forma, sensus, perceptio, propensio, conscientia non est;
non oculus, auris, nasus, lingua, corpus, mens;
non species, sonus, odor, sapor, contactus, notio.
Sensus videndi non est, neque alia elementa huius generis
usque ad mentis conscientiam.
Ignorantia non est, neque finis eius, aliaque huius generis
usque ad senectutem et mortem, neque finis eorum est.
Labor non est, non causa, non exitus, non Via.
Scientia non est, neque adeptio.
Cum nihil adipiscendum sit
bodhisattva Sapientia transcendente nisus,
animo libero ab impedimentis vivit.
Impedimentis non obstantibus nulla timet,
falsas cogitationes relinquit et summum Nirvana fit.
Cum Sapientia transcendente nitantur, omnes Buddha trium temporum
perfectam Illuminationem consequuntur.
Scito igitur Sapientiam transcendentem
sublimem mantra esse, mantra magnum et fulgentem,
maximum mantra, mantra sine aequali,
quod omnes labores dissolvere potest.
Verum est, sine errore.
Proinde mantra Sapientiae transcendentis ita pronuntia:

GATE GATE PARAGATE PARASAMGATE BODHI SVAHA! (x3)
(Ivit, ivit, transivit, totum transivit, Illuminatio tum sit!)
Anonymous Coward
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Egypt
05/03/2009 10:33 AM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
well i think i shall post the book because of which all this happened,

[link to www.4shared.com]
E.B.I.
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Egypt
05/03/2009 10:34 AM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
well i think i shall post the book because of which all this happened,

[link to www.4shared.com]
Anonymous Coward
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05/03/2009 07:57 PM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
and I will answer them in short.

Why?
Because I can.


Dear Insider!
I believe that you review all posts every time.
How can I get out from this Prison? I can't see purposes for living. I'm tired from this life. I'm embarrassed 5 years already.
 Quoting: Kura




What are you doing to try to get out of this prison?

Why are you in it in the first place?
Logos666
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05/04/2009 06:19 AM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
For the simple reason

that someone who at least doesn't mind sounding like

"Insider"
(I will henceforth refer to him as "")

(re-)appeared on the thread (I will refer to all such posters as ""2)

I would like to take the opportunity to point out

certain ongoing

underlying assumptions

in some statements and questions such as these:


What are you doing to try to get out of this prison?

Why are you in it in the first place?

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 671030


which presumes that there is no need to even question

whether you are in a prison objectively in the first place (which "" a long time ago had identified with the earth)

or

what constitutes the prison
(the word "this" implies an agreement to the questioner's perception of it).

__________________


Now please note:

unless there objectively is a prison

this presumption by ""2 in itself in fact reinforces the questioner's merely mental conditioning that the prison be objective.

Hence it further imprisons him.

__________________


There is a deep kinship between this and the following statement by our other (?) friend:

keep nothing between you and the divine.
 Quoting: E.B.I. 670401



[I couldn't help seeing this due to the bold print]


because it presumes that there is in fact a primarily objective danger

that could come between "you" and the Divine.


Note:
whoever made such a statement has by this very statement already "come between you and the divine" since it assumes that these are separate entities that need to be cautiously or laboriously held together lest something come in between.

Why ?

If they are inseparable like a wave on water, nothing objective can come in between, no churches, rituals, dogmas or anything else like for instance. These can only create a concept of a separation.

_______________


Please note that anything up to here involves no opinion of my own but follows cogently from what I quoted.


My view ?

Suprise:

"You" do not sufficiently exist to be separated from the divine, like a wave cannot exist separatly from the water.

The separation is merely a conceptual and perceptive error, and the root eroor is "you", the sense of a separate self.

The separation - if there is such a sense - is an ongoing activity that you are doing, no one else.


As this enlightened catholic (in the true sense)


[link to www.amazon.com]

[link to www.amazon.com]

[link to www.amazon.com]


says: "God is everything - except the self", that is except the delusion of separation within its totality and the seeming products thereof.
 Quoting: Logos666 670575






The idea that danger of separation is primarily objective

is misleading

and in fact aggravating what it is seemingly warning you about.




And hence:


So folks: relax and forget about any riddles regarding the truth or supposed historical frauds or supposed secrets of bloodlines or supposed wrongness of religion. It is out in the open, with or without religion.

Read Bernadette Roberts or Meister Eckhart or Eckhart Tolle or Ramana Maharshi or Ajahn Chah and the Sermon on the Mount and the Gospel of Thomas or Douglas Harding ... it almost doesn't matter.

But (and here I concur with Insider) practice it yourself.

And regard Insiders and Outsiders humorously and with kindness.

 Quoting: Logos666 518691
E.B.I.
User ID: 671371
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05/04/2009 08:24 AM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
I am glad to see you post again 666 apparently you can’t resist the thrill of a mind meeting with another,

The prison is both subjective and objective,

Subjective by the errant emotions and unbalanced nature of your not-advanced-yet soul.

Objective because it is in the physical plane, the physical plain is a crystallization of other subtle planes, making it a lower plane where spirits are bound beyond perfection.

As I said before separation is not dangerous it is normal in the physical incarnation you are in now, and I have explained the concept of separation in other posts,

As far as the wave and water example goes, we are the sand separate from water yes, but contained by it, that is the best description there is, we are not in the form of the higher planes, we are in a lower form contained by them, much the water of the sea that contains the sand but is in manifest form separate from it.

As for the divine and what can get between it and you, there are both objective and subjective things that can get between you an it,

The lies of religion and forced conformity is an objective barrier,

The unbalance in your microcosm or your “self” as you prefer to call it is the subjective example.

Even your own physical body is an objective example because if your physical body is unbalanced then your self will in consequence be unbalanced.

The above was a fact that you should have learned if you really practice yoga.

Finally, you have to be on the same plane to be “unseparated” from a higher plane, but for now, despite of the fact that you exist in higher planes, you are now incarnated into a lower one, the physical plane.

The concept of “prison” comes from the fact that form is the prison of force. however, force is also containing the form.

much like the way water containes a cube of ice.
Logos666
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05/04/2009 09:39 AM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
I am glad to see you post again 666 apparently you can’t resist the thrill of a mind meeting with another,
 Quoting: E.B.I. 671371


My reply was directed to ""2

availing myself of your merely by way of example for similar

ongoing suggestions.


The prison is both subjective and objective,
 Quoting: E.B.I. 671371


The objective part is more like an effect, the former can be likened to cause, even though they may seem simultaneous.

film -> movie on the screen

Hence warnings about the movie are misleading:

The idea that danger of separation is primarily objective

is misleading

and in fact aggravating what it is seemingly warning you about.
 Quoting: Logos666 671260



Moreover, once the relationship is seen correctly, the same movie that used to seemingly be imprisoning is now a liberating revelation.

Hence, the objects themselves are not at all imprisoning by themselves.

[link to www.rinpoche.com]

they only become so on the basis of the selfish way we perceive them.

___________________


This whole cosmological myth is a so called "provisional teaching".

Objects (religions, earth, heavens) don't exist objectively.

The subjective error, I concede, is powerful and complex indeed, with all sorts of feedbacks built in to it.


___________________



Assume you have a nightmare frightened by all kinds of objects.

Now you become lucid, that is you realize it is only your dream while keeping on dreaming it.

In one flash none of the objects continue to be a problem, in fact it is liberating to be aware of them not having this power to frighten inherently.

The dream can go on with exactly the same forms, but it instantly ceases to be a nightmare.

This earth is not a prison. We make it into one.

In fact Pachamama is patiently allowing us time and space to make fools of ourselves here. It is the opposite of a prison.

One might even argue that "the earth" means the ground we stand on. That then, in the final analysis, would be the Divine itself.
E.B.I.
User ID: 671371
Egypt
05/04/2009 10:35 AM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
I think I need to explain to you what the word objective and the word subjective means, for the purpose of our discussion,

Objective means something separate from you,

Subjective means something inside you and unseparated from you.

You seem to think that everything is subjective, if you really think all the things around you are “you” then I dare you to make them not, to uncreate them.

You cannot, why? Because the are objective to you, they are not from your essence, you didn’t create them, the most you can do is merely alter their physical form, like carving , breaking and also manufacturing something else from them,

you don't do so by changing yourself, no you change it by yourself, which proves they are objective because you need physical plane acting to change them, you don't do it subjectively, you don't do something to yourself to make the change, no you do something to them, because they exist separately.

We as spirits were manifested into existence as separate beings with their own intelligence and consciousness,

We are all aware of ourselves, aware of the objects around us and aware of the forces and emotions inside us,

When you dream you are in a state of subconsicousness, you are acting by your subconscious, not your consciousness, the former acts on unchecked impulses, the latter acts by all the experience you have amassed, and so if it realizes the nature of the situation it is in it isn’t afraid anymore.

Also when you are asleep you are separated from your physical body and go walking around in another higher plane, called commonly the astral,

Not all dreams are inside your head and subjective.

The physical world and manifestation (form) is a binding of our higher planes bodies (force).

The physical world is not an illusion and is not subjective to you, it exists separately from you and is objective to you.

Finally, people exist objectively and think and act independently from others, they are not a tentacle of an octopus moved by a common intelligence, no, they have their own intelligence.

if they were inseparate they wouldn't have a will of their own, and they would have acted harmoniously, but every where we see people against each other and making their own plans and actions, and are unique.

the proof of the separateness and objectiveness of people around you is their free will.
Logos666
User ID: 671260
Germany
05/04/2009 11:08 AM
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Re: I am a member of an Elite Family who you despise...ask me a question
I think I need to explain to you what the word objective and the word subjective means, for the purpose of our discussion,
 Quoting: E.B.I. 671371


Simple: you see a glass, it is the object of your seeing consciousness. It is not outside of that subject since you would otherwise not be able to see it. It only appears to be outside.

The wave forms are not apart from the water. Nor are they identical with it.


the proof of the separateness and objectiveness of people around you is their free will.
 Quoting: E.B.I. 671371


Their mind never appears to anyone. Not even your own mind appears to you.



If there were a free will, it could not be theirs. They would have no influence on it whatsoever, it would be completely erratic and random.

Any control over your decision, no matter how small, proves the opposite: namely that it isn't free.

The term "free" will is justified only as a matter of speaking, in that you certainly have an influence on your decisions beyond mere impulses or brute force from "others". It is "free" only relative to that, and this is what gives you moral responsibility.

But at the same time, this autonomous will is not an argument for a complete independence, a separation, in fact it is proof of the opposite.

Only because the will is not free in the ultimate sense can and must you influence it with your conscience and deliberation, and both have been co-created by others. Your whole personality making a decision is, in the next-to-final analysis, only witnessed by you and not your own separate creation.


____


There is distinctness, but no separation. If there were, you couldn't even hold the idea of others. You could not be aware of anything at all.

You and I are basically as much different and as much the same as various sense consciousnesses in your own person are. If these were separate you could never taste the apple you see.