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Why Not Redistribute Wealth?

 
Real list

User ID: 941874
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09/09/2011 08:31 PM
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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?
LET SEE I WORK VERY HARD FOR WHAT I HAVE, YOU ONTHE OTHER HAND ARE A LAZY FUCK . SO YOUTHINK YOU DESERVE SOME OF THE FRUITS OF MY LABOR. FUCK YOU ASSHOLE I'LL JUST FUCKING QUIT AND WHEN I NEED SOMETHING I'LL SREAL IT FROM YOU . GOD I HATE YOU GOOD FOR NOTHING LAZY ASS LIBS!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1289603


You must be one of them billionaire parasites who create nothing of value, eh?

BTW, You're presumption is erroneous. I work hard too.
 Quoting: TheTymeBeing


It sounds to me like you're tired of working and are giving up on your dream of years past. I bet back then, when you took your hard earned $400 and invested it in yourself and turned it into a viable business, you thought different!

The problem is with Government....you can't expect a free market to operate with socialistic programs draining it. That's why the 1950's era flourished, we didn't have to sustain the leeches of society. Now, we have 50% of the people drawing SS that haven't even retired yet. If you think this and all the other social hand outs are sustainable you're nuts!

Less Government....More Industry, Problem solved. Freedom isn't cheap, you have to work for it....I vote for taking responsibility of myself, my actions & my rewards!

For The Republic We Stand....
 Quoting: -->PaTiEnT ZeRo<--


Yes, the problem IS the government, which has been bought and paid for by billionaires and the corporations they control. I said earlier in this thread that we have separation of church and state, which is a given. But we also need separation of business (corporations) and state. And we need to realize that corporations are NOT people, and money is NOT speech.

There is entirely too much bribery going on, too much corruption. The term "lobbying" is the lipstick they put on this pig. The legislative and judicial process is run by the special interests, for the special interests, and "we the people" have been left out of the equation. Who lobbies for us?

We are much closer to Mussolini's definition of fascism than we are to democracy in this country. Corporations control everything and are the real power in this country, since their minions have been doing their bidding in Washington for decades.
 Quoting: TheTymeBeing


That statement is a far cry from redistribute wealth.

But yes, we are a far ways from a free market economy.

There are still honest, upstanding businessmen, and I expect one to assume the role of John Galt in the near future, if that has not already happened.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1394135
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09/09/2011 08:33 PM
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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?
Because thats what the antichrist will do...


The antichrist will redistribute the wealth. Deflation benefits the antichrist while hyper inflation would allow everyone to pay off their debts, he obviously will use people’s debt as leverage against them. Why would he want to help pay off people’s debt through inflation? Strategically it doesn’t make any sense.

(Daniel 11:24) He shall enter peaceably [through taxation], even into the richest places of the province [where the wealthy are], and he shall do what his predecessors and the founding fathers have not done: he shall disperse among them the plunder, spoil, and riches [redistribute the wealth]; and he shall devise his plans against the strongholds [where the wealth is secured], but only for a time.

This will allow his earlier supporters to be able to pay off their debts. As people start paying off their debts with the newly redistributed wealth the money supply shrinks and it will become much harder for those who do not support the antichrist to pay off their own debts as the money supply will be drastically reduced. This will financially squeeze and pressure people into submission or they will risk bankruptcy and being homeless and hungry in a violent and dangerous world.

Bible says Gold and Silver will be useless:

(Ezekiel 7:19) They shall fling their silver into the streets, their gold shall be treated as unclean. Their silver and gold cannot save them on the day of the wrath of the Lord. They shall not satisfy their hunger or fill their stomachs with it.

(Proverbs 11:4) Riches profit not in the day of wrath: but righteousness delivereth from death.

(James 5:1-3) Your gold and silver have become worthless. The very wealth you were counting on will eat away your flesh like fire. This treasure you have accumulated will stand as evidence against you on the day of judgment.


[link to whitesareisrael.wordpress.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1537401


OK, let's bump this discussion up another notch. Let's assume that at some point in the future this present age will pass away and the Evil that has ruled this world will be chained in The Bottomless Pit. The Millennium will be ushered in, as foretold in prophesy. Let's speculate on what the Millennial economy will look like.

How will/should it be?
 Quoting: TheTymeBeing


If fantasy is your operating system then anything is possible because there are none of those pesky limitations posed by reality.
You must be a child, no adult postulates against fantasy.
Your style is to set up false dicotomies and then rail against them. That's not reality, but reality is esactly what you're avoiding.
You clearly don't like dealing with reality.
Enjoy you illogical masturbation
Real list

User ID: 941874
United States
09/09/2011 08:33 PM
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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?
I'm gonna sit outside for a while, enjoy the cool autumn evening and the fruits of MY labor.

Keep up the circular logic. Maybe you will run into yourself and learn something
-->PaTiEnT ZeRo<--

User ID: 1528174
United States
09/09/2011 08:34 PM
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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?
LET SEE I WORK VERY HARD FOR WHAT I HAVE, YOU ONTHE OTHER HAND ARE A LAZY FUCK . SO YOUTHINK YOU DESERVE SOME OF THE FRUITS OF MY LABOR. FUCK YOU ASSHOLE I'LL JUST FUCKING QUIT AND WHEN I NEED SOMETHING I'LL SREAL IT FROM YOU . GOD I HATE YOU GOOD FOR NOTHING LAZY ASS LIBS!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1289603


You must be one of them billionaire parasites who create nothing of value, eh?

BTW, You're presumption is erroneous. I work hard too.
 Quoting: TheTymeBeing


It sounds to me like you're tired of working and are giving up on your dream of years past. I bet back then, when you took your hard earned $400 and invested it in yourself and turned it into a viable business, you thought different!

The problem is with Government....you can't expect a free market to operate with socialistic programs draining it. That's why the 1950's era flourished, we didn't have to sustain the leeches of society. Now, we have 50% of the people drawing SS that haven't even retired yet. If you think this and all the other social hand outs are sustainable you're nuts!

Less Government....More Industry, Problem solved. Freedom isn't cheap, you have to work for it....I vote for taking responsibility of myself, my actions & my rewards!

For The Republic We Stand....
 Quoting: -->PaTiEnT ZeRo<--


Yes, the problem IS the government, which has been bought and paid for by billionaires and the corporations they control. I said earlier in this thread that we have separation of church and state, which is a given. But we also need separation of business (corporations) and state. And we need to realize that corporations are NOT people, and money is NOT speech.

There is entirely too much bribery going on, too much corruption. The term "lobbying" is the lipstick they put on this pig. The legislative and judicial process is run by the special interests, for the special interests, and "we the people" have been left out of the equation. Who lobbies for us?

We are much closer to Mussolini's definition of fascism than we are to democracy in this country. Corporations control everything and are the real power in this country, since their minions have been doing their bidding in Washington for decades.
 Quoting: TheTymeBeing


Cheers....well said! I agree, but not to the level of giving up my rights of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

But to be honest, our country is gone.....as we all are corporations, logged in the ledgers and sold on the market....sadly, the only way back is a bloody revolution.
Real list

User ID: 941874
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09/09/2011 08:35 PM
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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?
If fantasy is your operating system then anything is possible because there are none of those pesky limitations posed by reality.
You must be a child, no adult postulates against fantasy.
Your style is to set up false dicotomies and then rail against them. That's not reality, but reality is esactly what you're avoiding.
You clearly don't like dealing with reality.
Enjoy you illogical masturbation
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1394135


Wow. Nice one. You said what I've been thinking but couldn't find the words.

Thanks
TheTymeBeing  (OP)

User ID: 1508999
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09/09/2011 08:36 PM
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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?
...


OK, let's bump this discussion up another notch. Let's assume that at some point in the future this present age will pass away and the Evil that has ruled this world will be chained in The Bottomless Pit. The Millennium will be ushered in, as foretold in prophesy. Let's speculate on what the Millennial economy will look like.

How will/should it be?
 Quoting: TheTymeBeing


You have not described what man will be in this future world. If men are angels and if an economic system is needed to transact business, then ANY economic system will work fine.

But in the present world men are not angels, so the best economic system is one that best promotes fairness and productivity.

To you question earlirt about government rewarding banks for their misconduct, as toy have seen, banks have not changed their ways. So the answer is yes, we do get more of the behavior we subsidize and less of what we punish (tax).

You introduced a hypothetical. Here is another

A man researches for years and discovers a drug that CURES diabetes. He sells his new miracle drug and his income is beyond the limit and taxes take all over his limit. This man has the potential to develop a drug that CURES cancer. Why should he? Why should he labor for another long period of time, ruin his own health, deprive his family of his company for no gain?

Who would be enjoying Ipads if Steve Jobs had no monetary incentive to invent it? He already had billions. But 10s of thousands of folks would be deprived the pleasure of the new machine.

I bet you answer is they should work for the good of humanity. Well, maybe they would, but what if they wouldn't?
 Quoting: Real list


So, a $500K annual income isn't enough to create any incentive? This hypothetical 90% tax rate (which it what it was 60 years ago), would affect only about 1% of the population.

Do you think people who invent stuff are always motivated by money? Maybe they're motivated by the problem-solving process, or by a desire to give something significant to humanity, or to be remembered by the future. These people who presume humans only do anything out of financial motivation are living in a strange personal paradigm.
 Quoting: TheTymeBeing


You reject my hypothetical? How rude.

Your premise was to redistribute wealth. In this world, at this time and with human nature as it presently is. Now you want to change human nature and talk about a future world.

I pointed out one reason I believe your idea would not work and you argue the reasons I did not address.

There are many reasons why it would not work, but we only need to show one.
 Quoting: Real list


Hey, I'm just brainstorming, not trying to be rude. My apologies. Just pointing out that human beings are sometimes motivated by things other than financial gain.
[link to www.thetymebeing.net]
Poetry and Musings from above the ground . . .
TheTymeBeing  (OP)

User ID: 1508999
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09/09/2011 08:41 PM
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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?
Because thats what the antichrist will do...


The antichrist will redistribute the wealth. Deflation benefits the antichrist while hyper inflation would allow everyone to pay off their debts, he obviously will use people’s debt as leverage against them. Why would he want to help pay off people’s debt through inflation? Strategically it doesn’t make any sense.

(Daniel 11:24) He shall enter peaceably [through taxation], even into the richest places of the province [where the wealthy are], and he shall do what his predecessors and the founding fathers have not done: he shall disperse among them the plunder, spoil, and riches [redistribute the wealth]; and he shall devise his plans against the strongholds [where the wealth is secured], but only for a time.

This will allow his earlier supporters to be able to pay off their debts. As people start paying off their debts with the newly redistributed wealth the money supply shrinks and it will become much harder for those who do not support the antichrist to pay off their own debts as the money supply will be drastically reduced. This will financially squeeze and pressure people into submission or they will risk bankruptcy and being homeless and hungry in a violent and dangerous world.

Bible says Gold and Silver will be useless:

(Ezekiel 7:19) They shall fling their silver into the streets, their gold shall be treated as unclean. Their silver and gold cannot save them on the day of the wrath of the Lord. They shall not satisfy their hunger or fill their stomachs with it.

(Proverbs 11:4) Riches profit not in the day of wrath: but righteousness delivereth from death.

(James 5:1-3) Your gold and silver have become worthless. The very wealth you were counting on will eat away your flesh like fire. This treasure you have accumulated will stand as evidence against you on the day of judgment.


[link to whitesareisrael.wordpress.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1537401


OK, let's bump this discussion up another notch. Let's assume that at some point in the future this present age will pass away and the Evil that has ruled this world will be chained in The Bottomless Pit. The Millennium will be ushered in, as foretold in prophesy. Let's speculate on what the Millennial economy will look like.

How will/should it be?
 Quoting: TheTymeBeing


If fantasy is your operating system then anything is possible because there are none of those pesky limitations posed by reality.
You must be a child, no adult postulates against fantasy.
Your style is to set up false dicotomies and then rail against them. That's not reality, but reality is esactly what you're avoiding.
You clearly don't like dealing with reality.
Enjoy you illogical masturbation
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1394135


Sorry, didn't realize that exercising one's imagination, maybe stretching to a visionary thought once in a while, was considered childish and "avoiding" reality. I wake up to reality every day, live my life in it, but still reserve the right to throw my thoughts outside that box once in a while.
[link to www.thetymebeing.net]
Poetry and Musings from above the ground . . .
Anonymous Coward
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09/09/2011 08:46 PM
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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?
Seems to me the whole problem with the global economy boils down to selfish greed. We have a tiny segment of the world's population controlling an inordinate amount of the world's wealth. The whole system is designed to make the wealth flow upward and those who have it are taking it from those who don't. It's gimme, gimme, gimme--it's mine, mine, mine--take, take, take--I have mine, get your own, fuck you.

Precisely the type of attitude that so-called adults implore their children NOT to do in kindergarten.

Seems that redistributing wealth would be an act of enlightened self-interest for those who have it, so that everyone could be housed, fed, clothed, and educated at a comfortable level and everyone would be happy, poverty would be eliminated, and the world's economy would become a smooth-running, well-lubricated machine in perpetuity.

Everyone would have a high standard of living, be well-educated, which in turn would spur innovation and invention, increasing the quality-of-life for everyone, and enhance creative new industries and technologies that would take us to the stars.

I mean, how many billions does one person need?
 Quoting: TheTymeBeing


I'll take some of yours, gladly--contact me for the addresss to send the check.
TheTymeBeing  (OP)

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09/09/2011 08:55 PM
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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?
I'm gonna sit outside for a while, enjoy the cool autumn evening and the fruits of MY labor.

Keep up the circular logic. Maybe you will run into yourself and learn something
 Quoting: Real list


Yeah, I'm enjoying my evening too. Just finished a massive 6-month project today and am taking an evening off.

I'm glad you are happy and satisfied that this system is without flaws, and that your portfolio is doing well. Have a cigar and a shot of bourbon, and make a smug toast to all those 1s and 0s that are sitting on a hard drive somewhere out there in cyberspace. Let's hope a global financial meltdown brought on by a greedy banker elite doesn't wipe you out. Or maybe you have a triple-short ETF tucked away there somewhere.
[link to www.thetymebeing.net]
Poetry and Musings from above the ground . . .
Anonymous Coward
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09/09/2011 09:03 PM
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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?
Seems to me the whole problem with the global economy boils down to selfish greed. We have a tiny segment of the world's population controlling an inordinate amount of the world's wealth. The whole system is designed to make the wealth flow upward and those who have it are taking it from those who don't. It's gimme, gimme, gimme--it's mine, mine, mine--take, take, take--I have mine, get your own, fuck you.

Precisely the type of attitude that so-called adults implore their children NOT to do in kindergarten.

Seems that redistributing wealth would be an act of enlightened self-interest for those who have it, so that everyone could be housed, fed, clothed, and educated at a comfortable level and everyone would be happy, poverty would be eliminated, and the world's economy would become a smooth-running, well-lubricated machine in perpetuity.

Everyone would have a high standard of living, be well-educated, which in turn would spur innovation and invention, increasing the quality-of-life for everyone, and enhance creative new industries and technologies that would take us to the stars.

I mean, how many billions does one person need?
 Quoting: TheTymeBeing


I completely agree with you. The problem is humans though, not the idea. If we were all perfect people, that would work. However, there are people that steal, take, cheat, are selfish, that ruin that system. They ruin some of the things we have now, like welfare. People as a whole need to change for it to work, and unfortunately, I don't think that will ever happen.

Look at the way the job market is. Everyone wants to blame the president for not making jobs. How can one man create millions of jobs? There aren't many ways for him to do it, honestly. The corporations, businesses and whatever else need to stop being greedy, and sending their businesses elsewhere. We need factories here, we need to be building here, and making things here. It would create jobs. In my opinion the whole problem is with that. If we fixed that, everything would be getting better, but no, they still send their places to another country. So people can make things for 1 cent an hour. They have billions of dollars, but can't pay Americans to work there? Fuck that.
TheTymeBeing  (OP)

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09/09/2011 09:14 PM
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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?
...


You must be one of them billionaire parasites who create nothing of value, eh?

BTW, You're presumption is erroneous. I work hard too.
 Quoting: TheTymeBeing


It sounds to me like you're tired of working and are giving up on your dream of years past. I bet back then, when you took your hard earned $400 and invested it in yourself and turned it into a viable business, you thought different!

The problem is with Government....you can't expect a free market to operate with socialistic programs draining it. That's why the 1950's era flourished, we didn't have to sustain the leeches of society. Now, we have 50% of the people drawing SS that haven't even retired yet. If you think this and all the other social hand outs are sustainable you're nuts!

Less Government....More Industry, Problem solved. Freedom isn't cheap, you have to work for it....I vote for taking responsibility of myself, my actions & my rewards!

For The Republic We Stand....
 Quoting: -->PaTiEnT ZeRo<--


Yes, the problem IS the government, which has been bought and paid for by billionaires and the corporations they control. I said earlier in this thread that we have separation of church and state, which is a given. But we also need separation of business (corporations) and state. And we need to realize that corporations are NOT people, and money is NOT speech.

There is entirely too much bribery going on, too much corruption. The term "lobbying" is the lipstick they put on this pig. The legislative and judicial process is run by the special interests, for the special interests, and "we the people" have been left out of the equation. Who lobbies for us?

We are much closer to Mussolini's definition of fascism than we are to democracy in this country. Corporations control everything and are the real power in this country, since their minions have been doing their bidding in Washington for decades.
 Quoting: TheTymeBeing


That statement is a far cry from redistribute wealth.

But yes, we are a far ways from a free market economy.

There are still honest, upstanding businessmen, and I expect one to assume the role of John Galt in the near future, if that has not already happened.
 Quoting: Real list


Yes, I'm not painting every person who has attained a measure of financial success and security with the same brush. I'm talking about those lizards who have gained a stranglehold on the system and used it to subjugate the masses through political and financial control. The "old wealth" families who own the world and are presumptuous enough to believe they are going "god's work" while they loot and pillage the financial system out of greed and lust for absolute power.

Funny, how the phrase "redistribution of wealth" sends the rich and wealthy into a tizzy. Except when the wealth is redistributed UP to them, then it's ok.
[link to www.thetymebeing.net]
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Anonymous Coward
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09/09/2011 09:54 PM
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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?
I'm gonna sit outside for a while, enjoy the cool autumn evening and the fruits of MY labor.

Keep up the circular logic. Maybe you will run into yourself and learn something
 Quoting: Real list


Oh that's GOOD...
Anonymous Coward
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09/10/2011 10:52 AM
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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?
MONEY = I don't trust you to be fair with me

We need to share and ditch the money concept !!!
 Quoting: FCL


You trust these motherfuckers?

Psssht. Fool.
Anonymous Coward
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09/10/2011 10:55 AM
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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?
Seems to me the whole problem with the global economy boils down to selfish greed. We have a tiny segment of the world's population controlling an inordinate amount of the world's wealth. The whole system is designed to make the wealth flow upward and those who have it are taking it from those who don't. It's gimme, gimme, gimme--it's mine, mine, mine--take, take, take--I have mine, get your own, fuck you.

Precisely the type of attitude that so-called adults implore their children NOT to do in kindergarten.

Seems that redistributing wealth would be an act of enlightened self-interest for those who have it, so that everyone could be housed, fed, clothed, and educated at a comfortable level and everyone would be happy, poverty would be eliminated, and the world's economy would become a smooth-running, well-lubricated machine in perpetuity.

Everyone would have a high standard of living, be well-educated, which in turn would spur innovation and invention, increasing the quality-of-life for everyone, and enhance creative new industries and technologies that would take us to the stars.

I mean, how many billions does one person need?
 Quoting: TheTymeBeing


Im very sorry for this example. but it works. Read how Adolf Hitler revitalized a dying Germany

He gave back to the people and zeroed in and focused on the family unit

He brought back housing, education, morality within families, and plentiful jobs in manufacturing. Science, organic food and nature conservation flourished under his regime.

Im just a researcher of his techniques, I dont support being against any race of people or faith.
Real list

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09/10/2011 01:30 PM
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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?
Seems to me the whole problem with the global economy boils down to selfish greed. We have a tiny segment of the world's population controlling an inordinate amount of the world's wealth. The whole system is designed to make the wealth flow upward and those who have it are taking it from those who don't. It's gimme, gimme, gimme--it's mine, mine, mine--take, take, take--I have mine, get your own, fuck you.

Precisely the type of attitude that so-called adults implore their children NOT to do in kindergarten.

Seems that redistributing wealth would be an act of enlightened self-interest for those who have it, so that everyone could be housed, fed, clothed, and educated at a comfortable level and everyone would be happy, poverty would be eliminated, and the world's economy would become a smooth-running, well-lubricated machine in perpetuity.

Everyone would have a high standard of living, be well-educated, which in turn would spur innovation and invention, increasing the quality-of-life for everyone, and enhance creative new industries and technologies that would take us to the stars.

I mean, how many billions does one person need?
 Quoting: TheTymeBeing


Im very sorry for this example. but it works. Read how Adolf Hitler revitalized a dying Germany

He gave back to the people and zeroed in and focused on the family unit

He brought back housing, education, morality within families, and plentiful jobs in manufacturing. Science, organic food and nature conservation flourished under his regime.

Im just a researcher of his techniques, I dont support being against any race of people or faith.
 Quoting: APOLLO ILLUMINAUGHTY


According to New York Times : Reich Bureaucrats Seen in a New Light, in time the jewish people were stripped of all savings and assets, so that at one point up to 30% of the military were financed by confiscated Jewish belongings

Towards the end of the war they had nothing to eat, but many owned large bank deposits. These became worthless, because when the war was over there was nothing anymore that you could buy with Hitler’s money

[link to espliego.wordpress.com]

So, he stole from the wealthier class and in the end, he still failed his people.

I can't find a reference now but I understand that he stripped the wealth from nations he conquered in war.

Again, I think Hitler's techniques failed
TheTymeBeing  (OP)

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09/10/2011 01:37 PM
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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?
Seems to me the whole problem with the global economy boils down to selfish greed. We have a tiny segment of the world's population controlling an inordinate amount of the world's wealth. The whole system is designed to make the wealth flow upward and those who have it are taking it from those who don't. It's gimme, gimme, gimme--it's mine, mine, mine--take, take, take--I have mine, get your own, fuck you.

Precisely the type of attitude that so-called adults implore their children NOT to do in kindergarten.

Seems that redistributing wealth would be an act of enlightened self-interest for those who have it, so that everyone could be housed, fed, clothed, and educated at a comfortable level and everyone would be happy, poverty would be eliminated, and the world's economy would become a smooth-running, well-lubricated machine in perpetuity.

Everyone would have a high standard of living, be well-educated, which in turn would spur innovation and invention, increasing the quality-of-life for everyone, and enhance creative new industries and technologies that would take us to the stars.

I mean, how many billions does one person need?
 Quoting: TheTymeBeing


Im very sorry for this example. but it works. Read how Adolf Hitler revitalized a dying Germany

He gave back to the people and zeroed in and focused on the family unit

He brought back housing, education, morality within families, and plentiful jobs in manufacturing. Science, organic food and nature conservation flourished under his regime.

Im just a researcher of his techniques, I dont support being against any race of people or faith.
 Quoting: APOLLO ILLUMINAUGHTY


True. He put lots of people back to work building infrastructure (autobahn system, for instance), car's, pharmaceuticals, tanks, aircraft, ships, howitzers, shells, bullets, bombs, death camps, etc. Was certainly an efficient economy with full employment (and lots of financing help from Wall Street), but, nah, that's not a good solution,

although it could be argued that the new security industry that has evolved as a result of 9/11, and the perpetual wars that have been perpetrated since then could be seen as a similar tactic. When the dotcom bubble burst at the turn of the century the economy needed a kickstart, and TPTB certainly didn't let the 9/11 crisis go to waste.

Unfortunately, those bills are now coming due.

Last Edited by TheTymeBeing on 09/10/2011 01:38 PM
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Dee Lisch

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09/10/2011 02:15 PM
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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?


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TheTymeBeing  (OP)

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09/10/2011 02:29 PM
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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?
Excellent. Thank you.


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T-1000

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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?
You can send me as much money as you can at [email protected]
 Quoting: Evil_Twin


I will save my donation for when the ETneedstopayforadivorce link goes up. Money better spent IMO.

j/k ET. Best wishes to you on the upcoming wedding!
Relentless

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TheTymeBeing  (OP)

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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?
I completely agree with you. The problem is humans though, not the idea. If we were all perfect people, that would work. However, there are people that steal, take, cheat, are selfish, that ruin that system. They ruin some of the things we have now, like welfare. People as a whole need to change for it to work, and unfortunately, I don't think that will ever happen.

Look at the way the job market is. Everyone wants to blame the president for not making jobs. How can one man create millions of jobs? There aren't many ways for him to do it, honestly. The corporations, businesses and whatever else need to stop being greedy, and sending their businesses elsewhere. We need factories here, we need to be building here, and making things here. It would create jobs. In my opinion the whole problem is with that. If we fixed that, everything would be getting better, but no, they still send their places to another country. So people can make things for 1 cent an hour. They have billions of dollars, but can't pay Americans to work there? Fuck that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1415174


Right. I think there is enough money around (thanks to The Bernanke's alchemical manifestations) but it's just not moving fast enough. There is record corporate profits, but they're hoarding cash, not spending, not investing, not hiring, and spending is what fuels the economy. The shrinking middle class no longer has much discretionary income to spend, while wealth over the past 30 years has been REDISTRIBUTED UPWARD, from the bottom 99% to the top 1%. And that gulf is widening. And it's just greed, pure and simple.

I dunno. There is a self-balancing reckoning coming. The whole house of cards is so top-heavy that I just don't see it as staying up much longer, in spite of the frantic manipulations of those who hold those powers.

I've gotten a lot of bad karma for suggesting a redistribution of wealth, but if the poor and middle-class had money to spend, they would, and the economy would pull itself out of the muck. But those who "have" don't want to share with those who don't, consider it to be some sort of theft, have a belief that anyone who is poor or struggling is either stupid or lazy, and deserve to be poor, screw them, losers.

Ironic thing is that when the whole thing implodes from the greed-sucking wealth at the top, that everyone will be suddenly more equal, only instead of the poor becoming rich, the rich will become poor. too.

And it has a sort of inevitability to it, especially for anyone with paper wealth, so all you who are smug in their wealthy portfolios, might as well burn them to stay warm when TSHTF.

I've come to the conclusion that Buckminster Fuller had it right. Wealth is the number of days of forward survival, so anyone who has the means to do so would be well-advised to convert their paper assets into tangible assets that ensure their forward survival and self-sufficiency, because there aren't gonna be many big corporations to provide your water, energy and food. Shelter, self-generated energy, food production facilities, and a reliable water source, for starters.

The S is going to HTF at some point in the not-too-distant future, and we will be in for perhaps years of struggle as the Beast of an economy we have built over the past 150 years will dismantle and implode on itself, and those who have become dependent on corporations for their sustenance will probably not survive. I guess there is your economic darwinism.

And perhaps that is the answer to the whole question of economics in a limited-resource world. Individual self-sufficiency and efficiency on a mass scale. Throw out the unlimited-growth model, the mindless-consumption, planned obsolescence, throw-away culture, and just live a high-quality life based on something other than material "wealth," the pursuit of which is really a poverty of the soul.
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Real list

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09/11/2011 12:33 PM
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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?
There was a payroll tax reduction last year, but the non-elite, the regular folks did NOT spend it as anticipated. They saved when they could, they paid down debt, bought some specific classes of items (survival stuff for one).

But you castigate business for not spending, you want them to hire people for whom there is no work. Or should they stock warehouses until full, then build more?

I dare you to hire a plumber, have him come to your house, pay him a day's pay, and have no plumbimg projects for him to work on. That is the logic of business ot hiring, there is no need for labor right now.

DUH

Last Edited by Real list on 09/11/2011 12:33 PM
Real list

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09/11/2011 12:36 PM
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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?
And perhaps that is the answer to the whole question of economics in a limited-resource world. Individual self-sufficiency and efficiency on a mass scale. Throw out the unlimited-growth model, the mindless-consumption, planned obsolescence, throw-away culture, and just live a high-quality life based on something other than material "wealth," the pursuit of which is really a poverty of the soul

The reason society has evolved to a division of labor economy is because it is more efficient. The idea of self-sufficiency is by nature inefficient
TheTymeBeing  (OP)

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09/11/2011 12:56 PM
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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?
The reason society has evolved to a division of labor economy is because it is more efficient. The idea of self-sufficiency is by nature inefficient
 Quoting: Real list


Well, that is open for debate. Technology can make the self-sufficiency model very efficient. Grow a tomato in your backyard garden and eat it a few feet from where it was produced. As opposed to growing a tomato thousands of miles away from where it was produced, spend dwindling fuel resources to ship it across the country to put in a grocery store, so it is eaten hundreds of miles away from where it was produced.

Same with energy. Put up a solar panels and windmills. Use it where it is produced. As opposed to digging or siphoning it out of the ground, refining the raw, shipping it across the world and using it thousands of miles from where it was produced. Not very efficient at all.

How efficient is dependency when the J-I-T distribution system breaks down? That is an enormous vulnerability the masses have been sucked into the past few generations. One glitch in teh system, and we have a cascading humanitarian disaster.

We have built a fragile house-of-cards and there is a strong wind coming.
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TheTymeBeing  (OP)

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09/11/2011 12:59 PM
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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?
There was a payroll tax reduction last year, but the non-elite, the regular folks did NOT spend it as anticipated. They saved when they could, they paid down debt, bought some specific classes of items (survival stuff for one).

But you castigate business for not spending, you want them to hire people for whom there is no work. Or should they stock warehouses until full, then build more?

I dare you to hire a plumber, have him come to your house, pay him a day's pay, and have no plumbimg projects for him to work on. That is the logic of business ot hiring, there is no need for labor right now.

DUH
 Quoting: Real list


So, what happens when robots take over the production formerly done by human labor?

I think we are seeing what happens, and the current model isn't going to cut it in the future. Need a new model.

"Labor is prior to and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."

A Lincoln
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Anonymous Coward
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United Kingdom
09/11/2011 01:01 PM
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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?
Only Pinko-Commie Fag-Subversives believe that they have a claim on private property.

damned
ravenous rant

User ID: 1316980
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09/11/2011 01:02 PM
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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?
There is a system in place now that is designed to re-distribute wealth, and its been in practice nearly since the dawn of civilization, they call it "getting a job".

Hope this helps.....
ossssss§:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+>
Real list

User ID: 1544904
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09/11/2011 01:08 PM
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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?
The reason society has evolved to a division of labor economy is because it is more efficient. The idea of self-sufficiency is by nature inefficient
 Quoting: Real list


Well, that is open for debate. Technology can make the self-sufficiency model very efficient. Grow a tomato in your backyard garden and eat it a few feet from where it was produced. As opposed to growing a tomato thousands of miles away from where it was produced, spend dwindling fuel resources to ship it across the country to put in a grocery store, so it is eaten hundreds of miles away from where it was produced.

Same with energy. Put up a solar panels and windmills. Use it where it is produced. As opposed to digging or siphoning it out of the ground, refining the raw, shipping it across the world and using it thousands of miles from where it was produced. Not very efficient at all.

How efficient is dependency when the J-I-T distribution system breaks down? That is an enormous vulnerability the masses have been sucked into the past few generations. One glitch in teh system, and we have a cascading humanitarian disaster.

We have built a fragile house-of-cards and there is a strong wind coming.
 Quoting: TheTymeBeing


Growing season is limited.

Solar is not sufficient as an energy source.


I did not claim the system to be robust, although it is that to some degree considering alternate sources for products we do not rely entirely on JIT.

I diretly responded to your claim of efficiency, not robutness.

A better example of effeciency is, built your own car. Build your own house. Build your own electronics. For food, grow and preserve enough to last until next season, husband all animals necessary for meat and dairy, and grow the grain to feed them. People did these things before labor became more specialized. Not efficient.
Real list

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09/11/2011 01:11 PM
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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?
There was a payroll tax reduction last year, but the non-elite, the regular folks did NOT spend it as anticipated. They saved when they could, they paid down debt, bought some specific classes of items (survival stuff for one).

But you castigate business for not spending, you want them to hire people for whom there is no work. Or should they stock warehouses until full, then build more?

I dare you to hire a plumber, have him come to your house, pay him a day's pay, and have no plumbimg projects for him to work on. That is the logic of business ot hiring, there is no need for labor right now.

DUH
 Quoting: Real list


So, what happens when robots take over the production formerly done by human labor?

I think we are seeing what happens, and the current model isn't going to cut it in the future. Need a new model.

"Labor is prior to and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."

A Lincoln
 Quoting: TheTymeBeing


again you revert to a future that may or may not materialize.

Did you not just talk about the fragility of our modern world and how we need to become MORE self sufficient?

Robot or homesteads...please choose one side of the debate or the other, stop trying to have the best of both worlds.
Anonymous Coward
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09/11/2011 01:22 PM
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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?
Seems to me the whole problem with the global economy boils down to selfish greed. We have a tiny segment of the world's population controlling an inordinate amount of the world's wealth. The whole system is designed to make the wealth flow upward and those who have it are taking it from those who don't. It's gimme, gimme, gimme--it's mine, mine, mine--take, take, take--I have mine, get your own, fuck you.

Precisely the type of attitude that so-called adults implore their children NOT to do in kindergarten.

Seems that redistributing wealth would be an act of enlightened self-interest for those who have it, so that everyone could be housed, fed, clothed, and educated at a comfortable level and everyone would be happy, poverty would be eliminated, and the world's economy would become a smooth-running, well-lubricated machine in perpetuity.

Everyone would have a high standard of living, be well-educated, which in turn would spur innovation and invention, increasing the quality-of-life for everyone, and enhance creative new industries and technologies that would take us to the stars.

I mean, how many billions does one person need?
 Quoting: TheTymeBeing


earn it

period
TheTymeBeing  (OP)

User ID: 1508999
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09/11/2011 01:22 PM
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Re: Why Not Redistribute Wealth?
There was a payroll tax reduction last year, but the non-elite, the regular folks did NOT spend it as anticipated. They saved when they could, they paid down debt, bought some specific classes of items (survival stuff for one).

But you castigate business for not spending, you want them to hire people for whom there is no work. Or should they stock warehouses until full, then build more?

I dare you to hire a plumber, have him come to your house, pay him a day's pay, and have no plumbimg projects for him to work on. That is the logic of business ot hiring, there is no need for labor right now.

DUH
 Quoting: Real list


So, what happens when robots take over the production formerly done by human labor?

I think we are seeing what happens, and the current model isn't going to cut it in the future. Need a new model.

"Labor is prior to and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."

A Lincoln
 Quoting: TheTymeBeing


again you revert to a future that may or may not materialize.

Did you not just talk about the fragility of our modern world and how we need to become MORE self sufficient?

Robot or homesteads...please choose one side of the debate or the other, stop trying to have the best of both worlds.
 Quoting: Real list


Why not have both? Robots make the stuff we use, humans become self-sufficient? Robots become the labor, and humans become free to pursue whatever creative pursuits they wish.

No reason why robots and homesteads need to be mutually-exclusive.
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Poetry and Musings from above the ground . . .





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