Why Not Redistribute Wealth?

You're nothing but a communists with your own agenda.. you been exposed case closed.. you're even worse than the people you envy so much..

The cradle to grave big brother government is working in Europe. We should follow their lead.

Looking forward to your explanation of how the hunting trip worked out.

And how are those tomatoes (from your garden)? A tomato diet, and how much longer is the growing season where you are?

And, you did lie about the book

Not saying that some form of capitalism should not be a part of the new paradigm [your words]

Just like Cuba, the 10% of the economy that uses capitalist principles (mainly tourist market) SUPPORTS the other 90% of the economy, the SOCIALIST part.

As in the case of the hunters, how long will 10% suport the 90%?

Who is John Galt?

OP expects you, to be forced by threat, to support his statist religion, which he is financially benefiting from. Your religion is of course not allowed conflict with his religion or religious convictions.

Op is a prime example of the progressive/liberal mindset. That is

From each according to his ability
To each according to his needs.

It does not work, never has and never will

But, the only way they can put their theory into practice is by COMPLETE government control. There will always be sensible people who see the falacy of their ideas.

But, in the long term, progressivism/liberalism/communism is inevitable.

Fiest, they erode moral principles through their control of the entertainment industry and huge control of print and news media. Homosexuality is now 'gay'. How can deviant behavior be gay (fun, happy, merry)? Killing a baby is being 'pro choice'. You get he picture.

Lower moral standards means more government control. We need more laws and regulations if people won't act resposibly on their own. We need relief programs once charity and generousity have been destroyed. Once personal resposibility to oneself and one's family has been eroded through mockery and language manipulation (notice how OP plays with words?).

It is hard to hold to one's convictions with promises of a 'free' life, free from work, free from worry, free from personal responsibility. At the same time we are mocked and ridiculed, called bible thumpers, flat-earthers, racial and misogynistic for holding a differing opinion.

OP says 'open your mind'. I say the same thing. Look at the world as it is, determine which system makes sense. Which would work on the basest level, in a survival situation, or in a one on one exchage of goods/services. Whch would work in the unspeakable case of total breakdown of civilization.

OP is a dreamer. I am a Real list

Last Edited by Real list on 09/14/2011 10:59 AM

What we have is DUMB capitalism. "unlimited growth" creating useless, disposable stuff--planned obsolescence--without regard to whether or not it enhances our quality of life, in spite of the fact that it is fueled by limited resources. Debt-fueled, mindless consumption of stuff we don't need and cannot afford. Time is up and the bill is due. And there is nothing with which to pay the bill.

We need SMART capitalism that respects people over profits, and works in harmony with instead of raping the environment.

So this is not a debate between capitalism and communism. It's a debate over DUMB capitalism and SMART capitalism.

And by the way, what we have today, as you have previously stated, is not a free-market economy. It's much closer to centrally-planned corporate fascism. Masquerading as DUMB capitalism.

We will never have a perfect system. That would be one that emiminates or prevents human frailities of greed and sloth. Greed drives the desire for wealth and sloth drives the desire for a life with little or no effort. These are the extremes. Add in a lust for power (governmental or personal) makes perfecting any system impossible.

BUT, the system in place today in the US does provide the best standard of living for the most people in the most efficient manner.

The ideas you advocate (there is no research for a book) will not work. Period. They are not a solution. Period

I can't argue with this. Good description of the current situation. What you describe is already here, no need for anyone to try to bring it about.

However, I am not a liberal, and I do not advocate big government, nor do I agree with abortion, and I grew up in a "bible-thumping" household. Actually, what I am advocating is an economic system based on Christian principles and common sense.

And, yes, maybe I am a dreamer. Since when was that a pejorative? Dreamers have always had their part to play in history and have contributed greatly towards the advancement and enlightenment of humanity. Many have been denigrated by their contemporaries only to be vindicated by later generations.

Let's return to this thread in 50 or 100 years and see then what's what.

Last Edited by TheTymeBeing on 09/14/2011 11:33 AM

A dreamer states what is possible and tries to change things.

A realist states what is impossible and works within those constraints.

We all have our parts to play.

Last Edited by TheTymeBeing on 09/14/2011 12:06 PM

Playing semantical ganes again, twisting the meaning of my words.

It won't work...you are not smart enough.


Dreamer

somebody who daydreams: somebody who is absorbed by fantasies or unrealistic plans


somebody who dreams: somebody who dreams or is dreaming



Realist

pragmatist: somebody who only considers things as they are or appear to be, and avoids ideals and abstractions

adherent of realism: somebody who practices realism in the arts or believes in philosophical theories of realism

[From Bing search]

So you see, a realist is one who accepts and deals with the world as it is, not he he might WISH it to be.

A dreamer (in this context) is one who indilges in fantasies and unrealistic plans or schemes or theories.

But at least you do admit what you are

Thanks for that

However, I am not a liberal, and I do not advocate big government

Big government, powerful governmnt is the only entity that can bring about wealth redisribution and the other changes you advocate. here are not nearly enough people that would accept these changes without being coerced, only a governmnet has ability for coercion to the extent necessary.

Again, you opine from a false reality

How about dreamer in a synonymous sense as:

Visionary: A person with original ideas about what the future will or could be like.

Last Edited by TheTymeBeing on 09/14/2011 12:57 PM

I learned at the dinner table back when I was a child, that just because someone eats faster than someone else, does not mean they should get seconds until every one else gets fed.

Actually, no one HAS anything. All that stuff you have will be someone else's someday and you won't be able to do anything at all about it. (unless you figure out how to come back from the dead.)

Some societies measure greatness by how much a person gives away. That makes more sense to me. The good of the whole provides more security than constant strife and competition.

I see the world as it is. It basically sucks the way humans are conducting themselves, economically, and morally. So I am a realist in that regard.

I am a dreamer (visionary) in that I see a much different and better world in the future. I am a long-term optimist and a short-term pessimist.

I believe in a coming Millennium of peace that will come after this old world and these old ways pass into history.

I believe it's possible, indeed inevitable. We definitely have some hard times to pass through first, but it's coming.

You believe it's impossible. That's the difference between us.

Last Edited by TheTymeBeing on 09/14/2011 01:10 PM

+1000

Have you redistributed your wealth, or do you just talk about other people doing it?

Everything on this planet belongs to everyone. Not just the few. Planet earth has been wrecked by mankind for his own greed. The tools at the top think they control everything on the planet and sadly right now they do. It's not thier planet to own, it belongs to the animals who live on it and man. Man is a virus who has built all over the earth, his day will come and the greedy beggers at the top will fall like the rest of us when our time to leave this planet arrives. I cannot wait until that day when the earth will be free again and life can live how it was ment to once again.

Exactly. Thank you.

How do you know "Everything on this planet belongs to everyone?"

Do you use your chatty little intuition to "Figure things out ... ?" Lol.

I have very little wealth to distribute. I am not obsessed with the pursuit, accumulation, and hoarding of wealth. I try my best to not be part of the problem and have, so far, succeeded.

Everything you own has come from the earth my friend in one way or another. Think for a minute, where has your pc your typing on come from? PCworld? Walmart? no my friend, it's from resources from the very earth your on right now, it's made from oil, precious metals, minerals.

Nobody is stopping you from giving everything you have away. I have no problems with that.
However, YOU would mandate that people MUST give away what they have. You would rob people of their belongings at gunpoint.
Does that sound too harsh? That's exactly what will happen if I decide to stop paying the portion of my taxes that goes to welfare recipients. The IRS orders authorities to come and take your belongings by force. They'll put guns in my face to take my shit.

This is you:


You want so badly to get your needy paws all over everyone else's money, but you don't want to actually work for it.


"Now, legal plunder can be committed in an infinite number of ways. Thus we have an infinite number of plans for organizing it: tariffs, protection, benefits, subsidies, encouragements, progressive taxation, public schools, guaranteed jobs, guaranteed profits, minimum wages, a right to relief, a right to the tools of labor, free credit, and so on, and so on. All these plans as a whole—with their common aim of legal plunder—constitute socialism.

But how is this legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime."

-Frederic Bastiat The Law

You wouldn't run your hands through a man's pockets at the bus stop would you? That would be thievery and would land you in jail; Even if you intend to give it to a poor person. What makes you think that it's okay for government to do this simply because YOU think it's for a good cause?

Every person is entitled to LIFE, LIBERTY, and PROPERTY. These are inherent rights that every human has regardless of nationality or birthright. The only entity that can legally deprive you of you life, liberty, and/or property is the government that WE put into place. It's not the kind of power you want running amok. It should be SEVERELY limited.
You, however, would give them the biggest stick you can find to use against us; All for your own agenda.
Because you think that someone who doesn't work deserves my money, that doesn't require me to fork it over. I DON'T believe that supplying lazy citizens funding is good for an economy or workforce.
If you do, you're psychotic. Plain and simple.

Yes, I anticipated your answer about you "Not Having Wealth."

As such, it then is very convenient for you to say what other people should do with their wealth since it is not yours. But, you do have far more than does a high percentage of resourceless people on Earth. You do have much to give away, but you have the wimpy excuse for not doing so.

You are typical of all those who live in some little La-La Land, and who like to "think about things" without doing anything.

PC's come from the earth. How nice, I think I'll go to the woods and get one.

Wow, do you not realize you are paying for other people to MAKE the machine for you? You even used the words MADE FROM. If you build a house, it is yours, if you pay someone else to build it, it is yours after you pay hm for his labor.

EveryTHING may or may not belong to everybody equally, but my labor belongs to no one unless I agree to the terms

He claims he is working on a book, one to educate peole as to a better way, and this is 'research' to compile ideas of better possible ways.

Bull shit. He is preaching communism, plain and simple.

Why not redistribute Life?

Take it from the socialists who don't value it any way as history has shown and then the rest of us will live in peace to a much older age.

It's not that the government should take wealth away from the rich to give to the poor. People should do it without the government (daddy) making them. People should be ashamed to be gluttonous and bloated.

No one should have to work that doesn't want to. Who likes bitter fruit? Many people like to work, and even live to work. Many people realize it's good for their mind and body and personal growth and they like to connect to others. They like to serve others and get joy from giving and participating. On the other hand, some people prefer to sit around and be a vegetable and aren't bothered that they are dying inside while they do. People that are so worried about everyone else being lazy seem to me to be projecting their own feelings. They are closet lazy people, working because the government tells them to, and not because they are in touch with the joy of being able to.

The problem is switching horses in midstream. As it is, some people can't work for practical reasons like, no transportation and cities designed only for cars. child care that costs more than the job pays and all that.

And when people on the lower end of the scale see what all "the have's" get away with as far as slacking and cheating and having disregard for others, then they think it is how the game is played and get in the game at their own level.

If people at the top showed integrity and concern for others, it would "trickle down" Reagan style.

What compels you to be so condescending towards people who don't share your worldview? Do you have some monopoly on universal truth?

You make some good points, but you're still thinking inside the box of the economic system you've grown up in. You are rigid in your thinking and incapable, or unwilling, to even consider an alternate view, or other possibilities.

You think the current system is penultimate and doesn't need to be tweaked or improved, apparently.

Fine. I disagree, and try to brainstorm a better way to live, one that works for everyone. One that doesn't have the pursuit, accumulation, and hoarding of wealth as its prime impetus, one that is fair and equitable for everyone and has at its core egalitarianism in all respects.

And you think there is something wrong with that because you have never stepped outside your self-imposed box.

Carry on.

so because u are too lazy and/or dumb to earn a living you expect others to support yr arse ... fuc u are pathetic ... maybe if u and all your type took yr families over a mountain the world wud be far better off ... f,,,ing loser

you are the condenscending one in ths dicsussion

a perfect example, you assume I have not considered the various aspects and possibilities. You continue to goad me with your simplistic assessment of what you claim to be my position.

When did I say the present system is ideal? I didn't, that's when. Based on everything I have experienced and everything I have read, and based on reason, logic and inferrence I have come to the conclusion that the system we use in the US provides the best standard of living for the most people in the most efficient manner, that is, considering the realities of the world as it is and human nature in it's present stage of evolvement.

There are some things that need no proof beyond whatever proof that I have based opinions upon. I need no further proof that a hammer blow to a finger hurts. I have all the proof I need. If I see or experience a hammer blow that does not hurt I will reassess my opinion.

You have shown no reason to change my opinion pon the topic at hand, and judging by other posts you have not changed any other minds either. Yes, some agree because they had the same mindset as you before reading the thread, but you have changed no minds.

What makes you think you a capable of solving the problems of our socio-economic system? What arrogance. Are you some sort of god that can wave a wand and change things? What power do you have, other than convince others and recruit them to your cause? Terrible job so far pal.

And one flaw in the theories you have presented is actually in this statement: one (system) that works for everyone.

Your proposals would not work at all, and especially it would not work for every nation, with various resources and population densities. It would not work in the camping scenario I presented, othwerwise you would have argued that point instaed of ignoring it.

You are the one who won't think outside the box of 'I need a certain amount of possessions to live', you are not willing to donate your stuff the needy folks.

I have concluded you are a stubborn, arrogant idiot that has lost touch with reality.

Last Edited by Real list on 09/14/2011 04:04 PM