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I need help!!!!!! PLEASE

 
Guitarguy52  (OP)

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10/02/2011 11:40 AM
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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
5 Near death and 2 recently.
Sounds and words create feelings of fear.

Can you learn from the circumstances immediately proceeding your death? Are you around the same people? Are you involved in something that hasn't changed 5 times?

The two recent experiences, what was common about them? Time of day? Location? Thought? Deeds done just prior? Emotions displayed to specific people just prior?

Some people deal in dark magic and dark arts. If you cross them they make you experience certain things...did you eat at someone's home or consume someone's meal that was brought to you?

Did someone serve you a drink, like a very lemony lemonade or offer a home cooked meal or brought you a meal?

Something is common and I believe you but you will have to break down each experience.

Did someone clothe you from head to toe. You will know what I mean if this was done. If not, ignore this and check out the other things.

You need to be more aware, maybe take notes of situations and circumstances. Something is common, and you have a strong spirit to go through this 5 times...but the two close together are attempts to break you down faster....maybe there could be three close together.

Do not take your own life (do not suicide yourself) as an attempt to get rid of what is happening.

This is your calling. Whoever/whatever is doing this has no real power over your soul or they would have taken it by now...but...they need you to offer it or relinquish it to them so they will leave you alone....and once you make the offer
 Quoting: maykme 1289656


Thnk you this is very interesting I will try to put things together!!!
my guitar gently weeps
"War is an agreement between two nations to reduce the populations of their youth"-Guitarguy52
Anonymous Coward
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10/02/2011 11:41 AM
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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
ps: stop being a jerk in your life and maybe you won't goto the bad place when you die. Then you won't come back here and have to complain about it anymore. I've been to the nice place, its nice. Nothing about that experience ever haunted me.
Guitarguy52  (OP)

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10/02/2011 11:43 AM
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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
ps: stop being a jerk in your life and maybe you won't goto the bad place when you die. Then you won't come back here and have to complain about it anymore. I've been to the nice place, its nice. Nothing about that experience ever haunted me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2394393


I've been to that really NICE!! place once as well you don't know me so don't be an ASSHOLE!!! I'm just tring to understand and deal with things!!!!!!!
my guitar gently weeps
"War is an agreement between two nations to reduce the populations of their youth"-Guitarguy52
Guitarguy52  (OP)

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10/02/2011 11:44 AM
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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
I can be specific as you want if you can maybe provide some answers!!!!
 Quoting: Guitarguy52


First tell me how the experiences came about (were they nightmares?) and how they affected you (were you terrified?).

Then we can discuss the other side of the coin where certain trigger images and sounds seem to relate to those experiences.

But you have to focus: describe the near death experiences first!
 Quoting: SozzledBoot


Do you really want to go in depth??????
my guitar gently weeps
"War is an agreement between two nations to reduce the populations of their youth"-Guitarguy52
Anonymous Coward
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10/02/2011 11:50 AM
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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
ps: stop being a jerk in your life and maybe you won't goto the bad place when you die. Then you won't come back here and have to complain about it anymore. I've been to the nice place, its nice. Nothing about that experience ever haunted me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2394393


I've been to that really NICE!! place once as well you don't know me so don't be an ASSHOLE!!! I'm just tring to understand and deal with things!!!!!!!
 Quoting: Guitarguy52


And the other 4 times you went to the bad place and hence my statement about you being a jerk. Well, obviously you've done something in your life that is dark or wrong in some way and now you need to be resolved. I don't recommend a church or anything. I'm speaking spiritually.

I understand more than you know and I am trying to help you, sorry if my approach has failed.

Trust me there are far worse things than death, I've been through them as well. It helps to talk about it, but not much else will help. You need to figure out your own way to cope.
Anonymous Coward
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10/02/2011 11:50 AM
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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
[link to www.youtube.com]



Might want to look up Dr. Herbert Benson. You need something to offset what you are going through.

Say "cancel, cancel" whenever you catch a negative thought coming into your mind, when you catch it. It will get quicker to catch it, and it will take 30 days or so to re-program your own brain.

Self-hypnosis is really what you are doing, and it can be done, and think positive.

Otherwise you may need more help if PTSD.
Anonymous Coward
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10/02/2011 11:50 AM
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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
OP, here is why I think you have a PTSD issue and should see a counselor specializing in PTSD.

If you had near death experiences, most likely they were accompanied by a combination of pain and fear, or at least one of the two. This is sufficient to trigger PTSD. You are describing flashbacks and intrusive memories of the events. This often gets worse without treatment. Because what you experienced "on the other side" was part of the whole experience, your flashbacks include those sensations.

A counselor who specializes in PTSD knows specific techniques to help you improve symptoms. The fact that he or she hasn't died and been brought back is irrelevant to those techniques. A counselor doesn't have to have specifically experienced rape, a car crash, etc. to help PTSD victims who have had those experiences.

In selecting a counselor, interview that person first to make sure that you are comfortable with them. The relationship and comfort level are important factors.

I am trained in these matters but do not work as a counselor, so please take my advice into consideration.
Frisco_Silver

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10/02/2011 11:53 AM
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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
After surviving 5 near death experiences 2 very recently! I am havig a hard time living with it!!!I am haunted by the images and sounds!!! All it takes is a image on tv a spoken word and my mind juat send back floods of images and sounds of the times between life and death!! No one understands what I'm talking about. It happens several times a day and I am at my wits end!!!
Thanks in advance for any Help
Guitarguy52
 Quoting: Guitarguy52


Guitarguy, I have 6 combat tours, with over 900 patrols involving 100's of firefights, Missiles, artillery ect....

Here how I cope,

I "Know" I made it out alive, I keep myself busy during the day, I have a glass of wine or two before bed to help silence the gunfire/explosions. And I dont "DWELL" on it

 Quoting: Frisco_Silver


Bless you, Frisco ... thank you for your service
hf
 Quoting: acadian


Thanks ;-)
Anonymous Coward
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10/02/2011 11:53 AM
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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
Yeah, dude totally has Post Traumatic Stress Disorder/Shell Shock.
I smell BS at you saying no body understands. What you described is like textbook symptoms I think are kind of general knowledge.
Take Paxil or something.
SozzledBoot

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10/02/2011 11:53 AM
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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
I can be specific as you want if you can maybe provide some answers!!!!
 Quoting: Guitarguy52


First tell me how the experiences came about (were they nightmares?) and how they affected you (were you terrified?).

Then we can discuss the other side of the coin where certain trigger images and sounds seem to relate to those experiences.

But you have to focus: describe the near death experiences first!
 Quoting: SozzledBoot


Do you really want to go in depth??????
 Quoting: Guitarguy52


Well no. I just need to know why a near death experience terrifies you. Unless it was an experience about being lost or going to hell.

Are you a Christian? Do you believe the gospel?
Guitarguy52  (OP)

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10/02/2011 11:56 AM
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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
ps: stop being a jerk in your life and maybe you won't goto the bad place when you die. Then you won't come back here and have to complain about it anymore. I've been to the nice place, its nice. Nothing about that experience ever haunted me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2394393


I've been to that really NICE!! place once as well you don't know me so don't be an ASSHOLE!!! I'm just tring to understand and deal with things!!!!!!!
 Quoting: Guitarguy52


And the other 4 times you went to the bad place and hence my statement about you being a jerk. Well, obviously you've done something in your life that is dark or wrong in some way and now you need to be resolved. I don't recommend a church or anything. I'm speaking spiritually.

I understand more than you know and I am trying to help you, sorry if my approach has failed.

Trust me there are far worse things than death, I've been through them as well. It helps to talk about it, but not much else will help. You need to figure out your own way to cope.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2394393


Sorry for the negative remark!!! We all have our demons and and have done things we are not proud of or are sorry for!!! and if you understand then thank you!!! I do not fear death in the least after being to that NICE place what I don't understand is why am I beaing haunted by these other images even as I sit here????
my guitar gently weeps
"War is an agreement between two nations to reduce the populations of their youth"-Guitarguy52
Guitarguy52  (OP)

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10/02/2011 12:00 PM
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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
I can be specific as you want if you can maybe provide some answers!!!!
 Quoting: Guitarguy52


First tell me how the experiences came about (were they nightmares?) and how they affected you (were you terrified?).

Then we can discuss the other side of the coin where certain trigger images and sounds seem to relate to those experiences.

But you have to focus: describe the near death experiences first!
 Quoting: SozzledBoot


Do you really want to go in depth??????
 Quoting: Guitarguy52


Well no. I just need to know why a near death experience terrifies you. Unless it was an experience about being lost or going to hell.

Are you a Christian? Do you believe the gospel?
 Quoting: SozzledBoot


I do KNOW that there is a hereafter but I don't think that my belief system is the question but I am seriously being troubled by these instantanious images that come at any moment!! i have a stable happy life other than that
my guitar gently weeps
"War is an agreement between two nations to reduce the populations of their youth"-Guitarguy52
Anonymous Coward
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10/02/2011 12:01 PM
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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
ps: stop being a jerk in your life and maybe you won't goto the bad place when you die. Then you won't come back here and have to complain about it anymore. I've been to the nice place, its nice. Nothing about that experience ever haunted me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2394393


I've been to that really NICE!! place once as well you don't know me so don't be an ASSHOLE!!! I'm just tring to understand and deal with things!!!!!!!
 Quoting: Guitarguy52


And the other 4 times you went to the bad place and hence my statement about you being a jerk. Well, obviously you've done something in your life that is dark or wrong in some way and now you need to be resolved. I don't recommend a church or anything. I'm speaking spiritually.

I understand more than you know and I am trying to help you, sorry if my approach has failed.

Trust me there are far worse things than death, I've been through them as well. It helps to talk about it, but not much else will help. You need to figure out your own way to cope.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2394393


Sorry for the negative remark!!! We all have our demons and and have done things we are not proud of or are sorry for!!! and if you understand then thank you!!! I do not fear death in the least after being to that NICE place what I don't understand is why am I beaing haunted by these other images even as I sit here????
 Quoting: Guitarguy52


Well first lets look at the issue. Images and feelings from a previous time are flashing through your head when you don't want them. It's like a song you can't get out of your head and comes back at the most inconvenient of times. What you need to do is not ignore the song, not ignore the feelings, but describe them, if only to yourself. Remember what you felt, what you saw, what you experienced. You need to immerse yourself. Your fear is stopping you from achieving a new level of you.

Once (first time I've ever said this to anyone), I was almost pulled into the bad place. I was quite alive, but it happened anyway. I didn't just feel death, it was the utter darkness and emptiness trying to strangle me that shocked me. It's really not so bad though, still here for now, and although I am still watched, I don't let my guard down so I can't be taken against my will again. I advise you to do the same, build your mental defenses. There will be more things coming after you.
SozzledBoot

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10/02/2011 12:06 PM
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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
I do KNOW that there is a hereafter but I don't think that my belief system is the question but I am seriously being troubled by these instantanious images that come at any moment!! i have a stable happy life other than that
 Quoting: Guitarguy52


I'm curious. Why do you call these past 5 experiences "near death experiences"? Did you truly nearly literally and physically die and was it witnessed or confirmed by anyone else in any way, as for example a doctor or nurse? Couldn't some other term or terms be used to describe what you went through? Just trying to get clarification.
Anonymous Coward
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10/02/2011 12:08 PM
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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
What you have described is almost a perfect clinical description of PTSD. Many on here have suggested you see a therapist. This is the best thing you can do if you really want help. If you prefer to just keep repeating that you don't think a therapist would/could help, then perhaps you should ask yourself what you are getting out of having this problem. Is it giving you an excuse for not doing something you want to do? See a therapist. If the first one does not help, see another. There are good therapists out there who are trained to deal with this disorder.
Guitarguy52  (OP)

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10/02/2011 12:08 PM
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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
Although it all seemed real to you, it may be that someone who is trained in counseling those who suffer from hallucinations or similar disturbing delusions may be able to help you explore it.

Regardless of how real such images are, they are always real to the person who is haunted by them. The number of people who have 'disturbing' near death visions is not high.
 Quoting: D. Bunker


That's what I really don't understand!!!! The 1st time I died I went to a really warm comfortable place which I remember today even though it was 9yrs ago and I would go back ther in a minute but now I am being bombarded by these other things which trouble me greatly!!
my guitar gently weeps
"War is an agreement between two nations to reduce the populations of their youth"-Guitarguy52
Guitarguy52  (OP)

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10/02/2011 12:10 PM
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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
I do KNOW that there is a hereafter but I don't think that my belief system is the question but I am seriously being troubled by these instantanious images that come at any moment!! i have a stable happy life other than that
 Quoting: Guitarguy52


I'm curious. Why do you call these past 5 experiences "near death experiences"? Did you truly nearly literally and physically die and was it witnessed or confirmed by anyone else in any way, as for example a doctor or nurse? Couldn't some other term or terms be used to describe what you went through? Just trying to get clarification.
 Quoting: SozzledBoot


Dead as dead can be!!!! I can go into the gory details but one of the last ones was witnessed by my wife and nurse when I stopped breathing and coded!!! Is that close enough///

Last Edited by Guitarguy52 on 10/02/2011 12:10 PM
my guitar gently weeps
"War is an agreement between two nations to reduce the populations of their youth"-Guitarguy52
Anonymous Coward
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10/02/2011 12:11 PM
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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
What you have described is almost a perfect clinical description of PTSD. Many on here have suggested you see a therapist. This is the best thing you can do if you really want help. If you prefer to just keep repeating that you don't think a therapist would/could help, then perhaps you should ask yourself what you are getting out of having this problem. Is it giving you an excuse for not doing something you want to do? See a therapist. If the first one does not help, see another. There are good therapists out there who are trained to deal with this disorder.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1557228


should have been "don't want to do?"
stillhere

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10/02/2011 12:15 PM

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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
Ok this is gonna sound crazy but its free and you can do it right now . Find a tree , as big as possible, sit at its roots, dig your hands into the earth, feel the cool dirt surround your hands , like a glove , like a blanket , like your skin, feel it secure you to the earth and the world of the living , do this as often as needed to help ground your soul in your living body so it doesn't feel pulled to the in-between , root yourself on the plane of the living :)
 Quoting: Corizon


Seriously try this--and walk around on the grass in bare feet--ground yourself and face your fear--the fear of your fear is making it worse.

Also, try writing about your feelings--this can substitute for a therapist.

BTW-- how did you almost die so many times--??
"You can bend it and twist it... You can misuse and abuse it... But even God cannot change the Truth.”
Michael Levy
Guitarguy52  (OP)

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10/02/2011 12:18 PM
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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
What you have described is almost a perfect clinical description of PTSD. Many on here have suggested you see a therapist. This is the best thing you can do if you really want help. If you prefer to just keep repeating that you don't think a therapist would/could help, then perhaps you should ask yourself what you are getting out of having this problem. Is it giving you an excuse for not doing something you want to do? See a therapist. If the first one does not help, see another. There are good therapists out there who are trained to deal with this disorder.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1557228


Look I have a very active life for all I've been through I play in a band have 4 kids married happily for 25 years I'm doing ALL I WANT TO DO!!!! maybe a therapist is the answer but all I want to know is why are these images and sounds haunting me and why should a therapist understand and just not medicate them away???
my guitar gently weeps
"War is an agreement between two nations to reduce the populations of their youth"-Guitarguy52
SozzledBoot

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10/02/2011 12:20 PM
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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
I do KNOW that there is a hereafter but I don't think that my belief system is the question but I am seriously being troubled by these instantanious images that come at any moment!! i have a stable happy life other than that
 Quoting: Guitarguy52


I'm curious. Why do you call these past 5 experiences "near death experiences"? Did you truly nearly literally and physically die and was it witnessed or confirmed by anyone else in any way, as for example a doctor or nurse? Couldn't some other term or terms be used to describe what you went through? Just trying to get clarification.
 Quoting: SozzledBoot


Dead as dead can be!!!! I can go into the gory details but one of the last ones was witnessed by my wife and nurse when I stopped breathing and coded!!! Is that close enough///
 Quoting: Guitarguy52


Ok. Thank you for that answer.

In 1978 I overdosed by taking 30 sleeping pills in an isolated motel room. I never vomited. I never received a visitor. For several days I was unattended. I then arose from my bed in perfect health.

Question? Did I die? Biochemistry says I did. In fact my doctor didn't believe I took the pills as he said "You should have at least had respiratory failure and died from that!". I think the experience qualifies as a NDE.

In 1985 I went through an experience where images and sounds in the real world triggered negative imaginations, thoughts and dreams that I experienced about going to hell, being in hell, being lost, etc. More specifically, I was unwillingly reliving my deathbed experience and being told by voices that "I didn't die because I was Judas Iscariot; or I was a devil; or I was resurrected to do evil, etc".

The terror these things caused me was so severe that I wouldn't eat or wash, and wouldn't work. When I went to sleep, I only had nightmarish lucid dreams. This went on for a solid year.

I also am very familiar with the occult, paranormal, witchcraft and Satanism. I even was a PR man for an exorcist for a time. I have experienced nightmarish clairvoyance, visions, precognition, out of body experiences, and attacks by unseen forces.

I had dreams where I was threatened by entities that wanted to control me, etc.

I knew terror and fear, and even fright inside out.

Nowadays, however, I no longer fear. In fact I am at total peace precisely because of my belief system.

So your belief system is relevant.

Last Edited by SozzledBoot on 10/02/2011 12:33 PM
Guitarguy52  (OP)

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10/02/2011 12:28 PM
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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
Ok this is gonna sound crazy but its free and you can do it right now . Find a tree , as big as possible, sit at its roots, dig your hands into the earth, feel the cool dirt surround your hands , like a glove , like a blanket , like your skin, feel it secure you to the earth and the world of the living , do this as often as needed to help ground your soul in your living body so it doesn't feel pulled to the in-between , root yourself on the plane of the living :)
 Quoting: Corizon


Seriously try this--and walk around on the grass in bare feet--ground yourself and face your fear--the fear of your fear is making it worse.

Also, try writing about your feelings--this can substitute for a therapist.

BTW-- how did you almost die so many times--??
 Quoting: stillhere


I' list them for you!!!

1. Heart stopped on a cardiac cath table flatlined 5 minutes

2. Car accident hit a tree at 65mph

3.Went into respiratory arrest at home!! wife and sister did cpr 20 minutes before ambulance arrived!! was blue nd not breathing when my wife found me
''
4.Went into respiratory arrest in Hospital wife and nurse in attendence when I coded

5.Went into respiratoy arrest again 2 days after the prior Nurse found me blue and not breathing at 1;30 when she came to change my IV bottle Code called and cpr done on the way to ICU woke up on a ventilatot and this was just on August 24th and 26th of this year
my guitar gently weeps
"War is an agreement between two nations to reduce the populations of their youth"-Guitarguy52
Guitarguy52  (OP)

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10/02/2011 12:29 PM
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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
Yeah, dude totally has Post Traumatic Stress Disorder/Shell Shock.
I smell BS at you saying no body understands. What you described is like textbook symptoms I think are kind of general knowledge.
Take Paxil or something.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1869530


Do you understand what happens when you die?????
my guitar gently weeps
"War is an agreement between two nations to reduce the populations of their youth"-Guitarguy52
Anonymous Coward
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10/02/2011 12:37 PM
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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
Talking is cheap. Do the exercise in the video and replace the negative with doing something positive. Talking may not do that!
Action not reaction!
Guitarguy52  (OP)

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10/02/2011 12:38 PM
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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
I do KNOW that there is a hereafter but I don't think that my belief system is the question but I am seriously being troubled by these instantanious images that come at any moment!! i have a stable happy life other than that
 Quoting: Guitarguy52


I'm curious. Why do you call these past 5 experiences "near death experiences"? Did you truly nearly literally and physically die and was it witnessed or confirmed by anyone else in any way, as for example a doctor or nurse? Couldn't some other term or terms be used to describe what you went through? Just trying to get clarification.
 Quoting: SozzledBoot


Dead as dead can be!!!! I can go into the gory details but one of the last ones was witnessed by my wife and nurse when I stopped breathing and coded!!! Is that close enough///
 Quoting: Guitarguy52


Ok. Thank you for that answer.

In 1978 I overdosed by taking 30 sleeping pills in an isolated motel room. I never vomited. I never received a visitor. For several days I was unattended. I then arose from my bed in perfect health.

Question? Did I die? Biochemistry says I did. In fact my doctor didn't believe I took the pills as he said "You should have at least had respiratory failure and died from that!". I think the experience qualifies as a NDE.

In 1985 I went through an experience where images and sounds in the real world triggered negative imaginations, thoughts and dreams that I experienced about going to hell, being in hell, being lost, etc. More specifically, I was unwillingly reliving my deathbed experience and being told by voices that "I didn't die because I was Judas Iscariot; or I was a devil; or I was resurrected to do evil, etc".

The terror these things caused me was so severe that I wouldn't eat or wash, and wouldn't work. When I went to sleep, I only had nightmarish lucid dreams. This went on for a solid year.

I also am very familiar with the occult, paranormal, witchcraft and Satanism. I even was a PR man for an exorcist for a time. I have experienced nightmarish clairvoyance, visions, precognition, out of body experiences, and attacks by unseen forces.

I had dreams where I was threatened by entities that wanted to control me, etc.

I knew terror and fear, and even fright inside out.

Nowadays, however, I no longer fear. In fact I am at total peace precisely because of my belief system.

So your belief system is relevant.
 Quoting: SozzledBoot


I need to go for now my daughter wants on the computer but I want to talk with you later!!!!
my guitar gently weeps
"War is an agreement between two nations to reduce the populations of their youth"-Guitarguy52
SozzledBoot

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10/02/2011 12:39 PM
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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
OP, I will try to be here.
Seer777
Ride the wings of the mind

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10/02/2011 12:42 PM

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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
I too had a NDE. It was wondrous. If you would like to talk about it please message me. I will help where I can.
Difficulties strengthen the Mind as labor does the body...
~Seneca
SozzledBoot

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10/02/2011 12:55 PM
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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
I too had a NDE. It was wondrous. If you would like to talk about it please message me. I will help where I can.
 Quoting: Seer777


There are dreams, daydreams, visions, hallucinations, NDE's, hypnotic regression and channeling.

In my opinion and based on my own experiences as well as research, NDE's are a "free for all" region where anyone, including spiritual scam artists, can spoon feed you visions of paradise, heaven etc.

If I had an NDE of going to heaven, I would place the experience in the same box as one of going to hell or even one that was completely neutral either way.

As a Christian, my beliefs have led me to the following conclusions. Dreams and related come from one of four sources:

1) our own spirit (weakest in terms of manifesting)

2) demonic sources (very strong manifesting qualities)

3) from God (the strongest and most powerfully manifesting dreams)

4) our own spirit with God guiding the elements of the dream in the background (used to deliver a message that otherwise would just be a normal dream from our spirit).

None of the four overlap. Dreams manifest as you:

1) talk about them;

2) write about them.

They cannot manifest otherwise.

NDE's are all demonic in origin; even the wonderful ones. God sent His son to die on a Cross for our sins; He didn't then change His mind and send a tour bus to guide us through the heavenly streets of gold. The distraction and deception of NDE's is very, very subtle: but consider this...if a deception were not believable, would it even qualify as a deception?

Scripture is all we need. Everything else is a distraction.

Last Edited by SozzledBoot on 10/02/2011 12:59 PM
Seer777
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10/02/2011 01:02 PM

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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
NDE's are all demonic in origin; even the wonderful ones.

 Quoting: SozzledBoot


Ridiculous statement. Abhorrent really. Why are Christian so concerned with everything being "demonic"? We create our own reality and the "demons" are us. Demons are simply another scape-goat for humans attempting to categorize and understand "evil" behavior of man.

Frankly whenever I think of good and evil, I think of the Niel Gaiman and Terry Pratchett novel 'Good Omens'. So I'll just jot down the premise and a freaking long quote from it that I chewed on for a while.

Premise: An angel (Aziraphale) and a demon (Crowley) are stationed on earth, trying to enlighten and corrupt it respectively. For technically being enemies, they get along fairly well. And Crowley is musing on human nature.

Quote:
Oh, he did his best to make their short lives miserable because that was his job, but nothing he could think up was half as bad as the stuff they thought up themselves. They seemed to have a talent for it. It was built into the design somehow. They were born into a world that was against them in a thousand little ways, and then devoted most of their energies to making it worse. Over the years Crowley had found it increasingly difficult to find anything demonic to do which showed up against the natural background of generalized nastiness. There had been times, over the past millennium when he'd felt like sending a message back Below saying, Look we may as well give up right now, we may as well shut down Dis and Pandemonium and everywhere and move up here, there's nothing we can do to them that they don't do themselves and they do things we've never even thought of, often involving electrodes. They've got what we lack. They've got imagination. And electricity, of course.

One of them had written it, hadn't he... "Hell is empty, and all the devils are here."

Crowley had got a commendation for the Spanish Inquisition. He had been in Spain then, mainly hanging around cantinas in the nicer parts, and hadn't even known about it until the commendation arrived. He'd gone to have a look, and had come back and got drunk for a week.

That Heironymous Bosch. What a wierdo.

And just when you'd think they were more malignant than ever Hell could be, they could occasionally show more grace than Heaven ever dreamed of. Often the same individual was involved. It was this free-will thing, of course. It was a bugger.

Aziraphale had tried to explain it to him once. The whole point, he'd said- this was somewhere around 1020 when they'd first reached their little Arrangement- the whole point was that when a human was good or bad it was because they wanted to be. Whereas people like Crowley and, of course, himself, were set in their ways right from the start. People couldn't become truly holy, he said, unless they also have the opportunity to be definitively wicked.

Crowley had thought about this for some time and, around 1023, had said, Hang on, that only works, right, if you start everyone off equal, okay? You can't start someone off in a muddy shack in the middle of a war zone and expect them to do as well as someone born in a castle.

Ah, Aziraphale had said, that's the good bit. The lower you start, the more opportunities you have.

Crowley had said, That's lunatic.

No, said Aziraphale, it's ineffable.

Last Edited by Seer777 on 10/02/2011 01:05 PM
Difficulties strengthen the Mind as labor does the body...
~Seneca
SozzledBoot

User ID: 992437
Canada
10/02/2011 01:07 PM
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Re: I need help!!!!!! PLEASE
Ridiculous statement.
 Quoting: Seer777


Did you get the memo where I said I was very familiar with all things occult and paranormal; and even worked alongside an exorcist for a term?

I cast spells, performed Satanic rituals, had psychic giftings, etc. ad nauseum.

I've been there, done that and bought the T-shirt.

You mistake knowledge for experience. However, you are entitled to your opinion, which by the way is the word I used in my own reply.

Last Edited by SozzledBoot on 10/02/2011 01:08 PM





GLP