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Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!

 
BigNutChuck

User ID: 1140210
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10/16/2011 02:12 AM

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Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
This is why I just love these get a job people. And these you should pay cash for a house and car people.

Let say a kid gets out of college with a degree and finds a job or jobs. Right now 40,000 a year would be huge for most to find and probably very unlikely for a graduate, but we will use this number.

So after taxes, ss, state tax if you have one, medical, dental, life, medicare etc

Your bring home is about 1300-1200 every 2 weeks
This is 2600-2400 a month.

Ok letís pay some bills.

Monthly

Rent 750-Very modest guess. All know some will lower,higher
Car 200- very low cheap car.
Car insurance 100 for decent
150 electricity-- very low for most
50 for gas if you have it.
100 for vehicle gas.

No cable or internet cause we don't want to live to great.
No cell phones because we can't afford this luxury.


Groceries
400 a month.

This is not eating out at all or getting anything from quicky mart. This is very modest considering prices now.


So we are at 1750. From 2600 using the high number this leaves us about 850, but wait. We went to college.

So since we didn't come from rich parents we have to pay for that. Let's say we go to a small cheap school and work part time to pay the room and board.

2000 a semester. Very low price compared to 90%

4 years of school. By the way it is almost impossible to get a 4 year degree anymore, especially while working.

So 4000 a year x 4 years is 16000.


16000 is about a 400 payment a month on student loans.


Now we are up to 2150 - 2600 leaves us about 450 extra.

We are not including any movies, out to eat, up keep on car, pops-candy, lawn care for rent house, medical bills for co-pay, etc.


Hell we will round it up to a big $500 a month extra. Now letís start saving so we can pay cash and not borrow.

First we need a house and car.

Modest house 150,000. NO LAND besides lot and this probably doesn't exist in price in most places.

So $500 a month savings = $6000 a year.

So it will only take 25 years to save cash for a house at this price.
But wait--in 25 years that house will cost twice that because of inflation.
So 50 years.


Ok letís get a car.
3 years = 18000 which will buy a piece of shit. These cars normally last 5 years maybe a little more, and they are worth shit nothing when you try to sell them back.

So we get a trade in for $6000 after seven years with the first car we bought. We have to buy a car every 7 years at 18,000.

We will need around 4 cars for the next 28 years, first one being bought for full price. 18000 + 12000 + 12000 + 12000

Hell this is only $54,000. That is another 9 years of saving on top of the 50 for the house. Plus we only figured the cars for 28 years not counting inflation.

So with the math if we started when we are 22 we might have enough cash for a house and keep our cars paid for in cash by the time we are 80 or more.

We won't be able to retire or afford anything else, but by God WE WONíT BE BUMS.


So all you people saying that you pay cash for all your shit and are not in debt are either full of complete shit or came into money somewhere. I suspect most of you got your cash from your momma and you are the true bums. Some of you might have worked your way up the ladder, but at what cost. Some might have built a successful business and are very lucky because if you tried that shit now you would be screwed.

Point being in this long ass post.

Quit blaming these kids. Go get a job is not going to fix shit and you know it. Do the math. Slavery is the end game and they got it.
Rather die standing than live kneeling
BigNutChuck  (OP)

User ID: 1140210
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10/16/2011 02:47 AM

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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
One

bump

from me and that is all.
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2586703
United States
10/16/2011 02:51 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
You are soooooo effing right.

It was tough for one to live on 1700 a month back in the late 70's. And things were cheaper then.

And now I have MS and can't work and my spouse works for 1/3 what his resume is worth - just to even have a job with benefits.

What we bring home now is equivalent to $20,000 less than what he made when he first got out of college.

And now we are trying to put a kid (autism/lite) through college at a state institution that offers his higher math/science degree (because kid his high IQ and is pretty brilliant - even the profs say so). Not some worthless liberal arts degree.

Plus pay all the medical bills that the insurance doesn't cover (ridiculously high co-pays, and pays almost nothing for drugs).

The only saving grace we have is that I foresaw the housing crisis and we decided to move out of the big suburb and big house, to the country on a few acres with a used mobile home.
JUST TO GET DEBT FREE (from the equity in our house - I kind of feel sorry for the people that bought it, because the appraised value went down about 35% within 2 years of them buying it).

Now, we don't have cable, or go out to eat or to the movies. We drive cars that are (well maintained, but) 14 years old and paid for.

We eat a lot of peanut butter (which is going up) and cheap chicken. Try to make and grow what we can.

We are in our fifties and struggling to make ends meet like we did when we were in college.

Our retirement funds were mis-managed and depleted by a sheister 'financial advisory' company (Ameriprise). So we have no retirement.

Basically, we are now screwed because of the mess this country is in.

So I just keep thinking: Where is the big space rock?

That is what this country has come to. We were once (low) upper middle-class. At this rate it won't be but a few more years and we will be begging on the street.


And, about the 'go get a job' group. FIND MY SPOUSE ONE, please - one that pays at least more than half of what the resume should be worth.

And the kids - Most of them can't find jobs (above min rage) either ------ BECAUSE THEY HAVE ALL BE SENT OVERSEAS.

If you are lucky, and have a decent paying job - be thankful and don't knock people who don't/can't.

Everyone is just doing the best they can to survive at this point.

And, btw, college costs at a cheap university are closer to $5000 - PER SEMESTER!

Yep - feels like slavery to me.
BigNutChuck  (OP)

User ID: 1140210
United States
10/16/2011 03:01 AM

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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
You are soooooo effing right.

It was tough for one to live on 1700 a month back in the late 70's. And things were cheaper then.

And now I have MS and can't work and my spouse works for 1/3 what his resume is worth - just to even have a job with benefits.

What we bring home now is equivalent to $20,000 less than what he made when he first got out of college.

And now we are trying to put a kid (autism/lite) through college at a state institution that offers his higher math/science degree (because kid his high IQ and is pretty brilliant - even the profs say so). Not some worthless liberal arts degree.

Plus pay all the medical bills that the insurance doesn't cover (ridiculously high co-pays, and pays almost nothing for drugs).

The only saving grace we have is that I foresaw the housing crisis and we decided to move out of the big suburb and big house, to the country on a few acres with a used mobile home.
JUST TO GET DEBT FREE (from the equity in our house - I kind of feel sorry for the people that bought it, because the appraised value went down about 35% within 2 years of them buying it).

Now, we don't have cable, or go out to eat or to the movies. We drive cars that are (well maintained, but) 14 years old and paid for.

We eat a lot of peanut butter (which is going up) and cheap chicken. Try to make and grow what we can.

We are in our fifties and struggling to make ends meet like we did when we were in college.

Our retirement funds were mis-managed and depleted by a sheister 'financial advisory' company (Ameriprise). So we have no retirement.

Basically, we are now screwed because of the mess this country is in.

So I just keep thinking: Where is the big space rock?

That is what this country has come to. We were once (low) upper middle-class. At this rate it won't be but a few more years and we will be begging on the street.


And, about the 'go get a job' group. FIND MY SPOUSE ONE, please - one that pays at least more than half of what the resume should be worth.

And the kids - Most of them can't find jobs (above min rage) either ------ BECAUSE THEY HAVE ALL BE SENT OVERSEAS.

If you are lucky, and have a decent paying job - be thankful and don't knock people who don't/can't.

Everyone is just doing the best they can to survive at this point.

And, btw, college costs at a cheap university are closer to $5000 - PER SEMESTER!

Yep - feels like slavery to me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2586703


I feel your pain and this is what most people are dealing with.

I just could not believe the amount of post earlier today and all this month about these protest.

I don't agree with some of the protest demands or ideas, but I sure as hell don't blame them.

I can't believe people are actually mad at these kids, and trying to put blame on them. Actually taking up for the banks.

I just wanted to make a post with some math so maybe one of these wonderful people saying get a job or DON'T GO INTO DEBT could tell the rest of us people their great secrets on how to do this.

Of course they never do, they just tell you there are jobs and or start a business. Nevermind that you can't get a business loan to save your life. Nevermind you can't sell your house to relocate to save your life. Then if you let your house go back you are a bum for borrowing.

Just blows my mind.
Rather die standing than live kneeling
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 3406210
United States
10/16/2011 03:04 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
This is why I just love these get a job people. And these you should pay cash for a house and car people.

Let say a kid gets out of college with a degree and finds a job or jobs. Right now 40,000 a year would be huge for most to find and probably very unlikely for a graduate, but we will use this number.

So after taxes, ss, state tax if you have one, medical, dental, life, medicare etc

Your bring home is about 1300-1200 every 2 weeks
This is 2600-2400 a month.

Ok letís pay some bills.

Monthly

Rent 750-Very modest guess. All know some will lower,higher
Car 200- very low cheap car.
Car insurance 100 for decent
150 electricity-- very low for most
50 for gas if you have it.
100 for vehicle gas.

No cable or internet cause we don't want to live to great.
No cell phones because we can't afford this luxury.


Groceries
400 a month.

This is not eating out at all or getting anything from quicky mart. This is very modest considering prices now.


So we are at 1750. From 2600 using the high number this leaves us about 850, but wait. We went to college.

So since we didn't come from rich parents we have to pay for that. Let's say we go to a small cheap school and work part time to pay the room and board.

2000 a semester. Very low price compared to 90%

4 years of school. By the way it is almost impossible to get a 4 year degree anymore, especially while working.

So 4000 a year x 4 years is 16000.


16000 is about a 400 payment a month on student loans.


Now we are up to 2150 - 2600 leaves us about 450 extra.

We are not including any movies, out to eat, up keep on car, pops-candy, lawn care for rent house, medical bills for co-pay, etc.


Hell we will round it up to a big $500 a month extra. Now letís start saving so we can pay cash and not borrow.

First we need a house and car.

Modest house 150,000. NO LAND besides lot and this probably doesn't exist in price in most places.

So $500 a month savings = $6000 a year.

So it will only take 25 years to save cash for a house at this price.
But wait--in 25 years that house will cost twice that because of inflation.
So 50 years.


Ok letís get a car.
3 years = 18000 which will buy a piece of shit. These cars normally last 5 years maybe a little more, and they are worth shit nothing when you try to sell them back.

So we get a trade in for $6000 after seven years with the first car we bought. We have to buy a car every 7 years at 18,000.

We will need around 4 cars for the next 28 years, first one being bought for full price. 18000 + 12000 + 12000 + 12000

Hell this is only $54,000. That is another 9 years of saving on top of the 50 for the house. Plus we only figured the cars for 28 years not counting inflation.

So with the math if we started when we are 22 we might have enough cash for a house and keep our cars paid for in cash by the time we are 80 or more.

We won't be able to retire or afford anything else, but by God WE WONíT BE BUMS.


So all you people saying that you pay cash for all your shit and are not in debt are either full of complete shit or came into money somewhere. I suspect most of you got your cash from your momma and you are the true bums. Some of you might have worked your way up the ladder, but at what cost. Some might have built a successful business and are very lucky because if you tried that shit now you would be screwed.

Point being in this long ass post.

Quit blaming these kids. Go get a job is not going to fix shit and you know it. Do the math. Slavery is the end game and they got it.
 Quoting: BigNutChuck


thank you for posting this so clearly!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 3376136
United States
10/16/2011 03:41 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
Right now 40,000 a year would be huge for most to find and probably very unlikely for a graduate, but we will use this number.

So after taxes, ss, state tax if you have one, medical, dental, life, medicare etc

Your bring home is about 1300-1200 every 2 weeks
This is 2600-2400 a month.

Ok letís pay some bills.

Monthly

Rent 750-Very modest guess. All know some will lower,higher
Car 200- very low cheap car.
Car insurance 100 for decent
150 electricity-- very low for most
50 for gas if you have it.
100 for vehicle gas.

No cable or internet cause we don't want to live to great.
No cell phones because we can't afford this luxury.


Groceries
400 a month.

 Quoting: BigNutChuck


Your post is a good one and makes valid points!


If I may adjust those numbers a bit - here in Texas (which is, I think, more reasonable than many places around the country) - it's pretty much impossible to find a decent rent house or apartment in a nice, safe area for less than $1,000 a month and it's going to be closer to $1,200. So let's average that $1,100.

200 is indeed a low payment for a car, but we'll go with that.

Insurance varies, we'll go with your $100.

Electricity here can vary between 100 and 400+ depending on what runs on electric or gas, time of year, etc. Average out at $250

Gas can vary 30 - 125, Average at $75 And you left out water payment which can be 40 - 100 depending on usage. Average at $60

And with the rising prices in stores, $400 a month for groceries is really trimming back.

And $100 for auto gas.

So let' add it up now:
$ 2,285


So you figured the numbers for a college grad.

Let's now apply the numbers to those who simply do not have the chance and/or money to go to college, who are good and decent people (of all ages) who just didn't have the opportunities afforded others (but I guess the haters will call them bums, too) . . .

So they are making $8 an hour.
That's $64 a day.
It's $320 per week minus let's say 25% taxes = bring home: a whopping $240!

That's $12,480 per year.

Now they may or may not have insurance through their job, but if they do, it won't be very comprehensive, and they can't pay for any extra coverage.

And as you pointed out, the above expenses do NOT include cable, phone, entertainment, clothes, auto maintenance, etc.

The annual expenses above total $27,420!

Wow.

So to all the people out there who say to others "just get a damn job, any job you can get and be happy with it! . . . crunch the numbers and tell everyone how YOU would like to have to make do under THOSE kinds of financial circumstances!!!!!!!!


I don't advocate the lazy and apathetic people who don't want to do better, but I LOATHE these arrogant people who point fingers and make judgments without considering the reality for some.
BigNutChuck  (OP)

User ID: 1140210
United States
10/16/2011 03:45 AM

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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
Right now 40,000 a year would be huge for most to find and probably very unlikely for a graduate, but we will use this number.

So after taxes, ss, state tax if you have one, medical, dental, life, medicare etc

Your bring home is about 1300-1200 every 2 weeks
This is 2600-2400 a month.

Ok letís pay some bills.

Monthly

Rent 750-Very modest guess. All know some will lower,higher
Car 200- very low cheap car.
Car insurance 100 for decent
150 electricity-- very low for most
50 for gas if you have it.
100 for vehicle gas.

No cable or internet cause we don't want to live to great.
No cell phones because we can't afford this luxury.


Groceries
400 a month.

 Quoting: BigNutChuck


Your post is a good one and makes valid points!


If I may adjust those numbers a bit - here in Texas (which is, I think, more reasonable than many places around the country) - it's pretty much impossible to find a decent rent house or apartment in a nice, safe area for less than $1,000 a month and it's going to be closer to $1,200. So let's average that $1,100.

200 is indeed a low payment for a car, but we'll go with that.

Insurance varies, we'll go with your $100.

Electricity here can vary between 100 and 400+ depending on what runs on electric or gas, time of year, etc. Average out at $250

Gas can vary 30 - 125, Average at $75 And you left out water payment which can be 40 - 100 depending on usage. Average at $60

And with the rising prices in stores, $400 a month for groceries is really trimming back.

And $100 for auto gas.

So let' add it up now:
$ 2,285


So you figured the numbers for a college grad.

Let's now apply the numbers to those who simply do not have the chance and/or money to go to college, who are good and decent people (of all ages) who just didn't have the opportunities afforded others (but I guess the haters will call them bums, too) . . .

So they are making $8 an hour.
That's $64 a day.
It's $320 per week minus let's say 25% taxes = bring home: a whopping $240!

That's $12,480 per year.

Now they may or may not have insurance through their job, but if they do, it won't be very comprehensive, and they can't pay for any extra coverage.

And as you pointed out, the above expenses do NOT include cable, phone, entertainment, clothes, auto maintenance, etc.

The annual expenses above total $27,420!

Wow.

So to all the people out there who say to others "just get a damn job, any job you can get and be happy with it! . . . crunch the numbers and tell everyone how YOU would like to have to make do under THOSE kinds of financial circumstances!!!!!!!!


I don't advocate the lazy and apathetic people who don't want to do better, but I LOATHE these arrogant people who point fingers and make judgments without considering the reality for some.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3376136


clappa


Very Good Post back and thank you.
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1471690
Canada
10/16/2011 04:01 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
Good post very obvious how stupid(smart) the whole scheme is. I'm living with my friend who broke his back and is a paraplegic, he gets $800 a month from disability, unless he gets a crappy job that pays a few hundred bucks more a month, in which case they stop giving him disability, and he is having to work his ass off every day and risk his health situation even more, which needs him off his ass.
BigNutChuck  (OP)

User ID: 1140210
United States
10/16/2011 06:20 AM

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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
Good post very obvious how stupid(smart) the whole scheme is. I'm living with my friend who broke his back and is a paraplegic, he gets $800 a month from disability, unless he gets a crappy job that pays a few hundred bucks more a month, in which case they stop giving him disability, and he is having to work his ass off every day and risk his health situation even more, which needs him off his ass.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1471690


The scheme is people in debt are slaves. It really is brilliant for the TPTB.


So now they have decided to collapse the system for some reason or another. More than likely more control.


With the collapse people are starting to lose this way of life most thought would never end.

The kids are starting to protest.

So instead of guiding these people. Instead of waking more up to what is really going on and who is really doing this--

People would rather say get a job.
Don't borrow money.
Plenty of jobs.
It's not the bankers fault.
It's not wall streets fault.
Your a bum because you don't work.
etc


Really sad but I guess people on one side of the fence will do anything including selling their soul to stay on that side of the fence.
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Aunty Flo

User ID: 3411063
Australia
10/16/2011 06:23 AM

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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
The money / slave system is evil. We will never be free on this plane of existence. It is in the best interest of the rich to keep us poor.
Apocalypse TrollModerator
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10/16/2011 06:29 AM

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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
The point in 'get a job' is to motivate people to 'make a job'.


It is up to individuals to create jobs in America. If people choose not to risk and be an employee all their life, well fine. Live in an apartment and ride the bus then.

America is about excellence. People need to create businesses and employ others. Few can start life this way, but anyone can finish this way.

Then you pay cash for a car and a house.


Nobody has a right to have a car or a house. They have a right to work for it.
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ThirdEyeBrown

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10/16/2011 06:34 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
The point in 'get a job' is to motivate people to 'make a job'.


It is up to individuals to create jobs in America. If people choose not to risk and be an employee all their life, well fine. Live in an apartment and ride the bus then.

America is about excellence. People need to create businesses and employ others. Few can start life this way, but anyone can finish this way.

Then you pay cash for a car and a house.


Nobody has a right to have a car or a house. They have a right to work for it.
 Quoting: Apocalypse Troll


exactly.

It is, however, unfortunate that it is not as easy as it was years ago.

Now, you just have to take a smarter route to what you want to do.

They want everyone in debt. Don't put yourself in that situation. There are other ways
ThirdEyeBrown
BigNutChuck  (OP)

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10/16/2011 07:40 AM

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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
The point in 'get a job' is to motivate people to 'make a job'.


It is up to individuals to create jobs in America. If people choose not to risk and be an employee all their life, well fine. Live in an apartment and ride the bus then.

America is about excellence. People need to create businesses and employ others. Few can start life this way, but anyone can finish this way.

Then you pay cash for a car and a house.


Nobody has a right to have a car or a house. They have a right to work for it.
 Quoting: Apocalypse Troll


exactly.

It is, however, unfortunate that it is not as easy as it was years ago.

Now, you just have to take a smarter route to what you want to do.

They want everyone in debt. Don't put yourself in that situation. There are other ways
 Quoting: ThirdEyeBrown


Explain how there are other ways.

I just did the math at the top. Another poster also showed you how much someone who didn't go to college would make and did the math. So how does a young person not put themselves in debt.
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BigNutChuck  (OP)

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10/16/2011 07:43 AM

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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
The point in 'get a job' is to motivate people to 'make a job'.


It is up to individuals to create jobs in America. If people choose not to risk and be an employee all their life, well fine. Live in an apartment and ride the bus then.

America is about excellence. People need to create businesses and employ others. Few can start life this way, but anyone can finish this way.

Then you pay cash for a car and a house.


Nobody has a right to have a car or a house. They have a right to work for it.
 Quoting: Apocalypse Troll


How does one create jobs right now? You say start a business. How without borrowing?

No bank will loan on business unless it is 20% or more interest and 20% down.

The government is not helping through the sba.

You say people need to create business and by this they create jobs. I agree except for there is no way to create business, so there are no jobs.

The people that have the money to invest, to start business are not doing it.
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Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2011 07:51 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
My parents both dropped out of school when they were 17 and they both immediately got jobs with the government (with only a Grade 11 education). After working about 40 years, they both retired at the top of their respective fields and now draw around $300 thousand in iron-clad government pensions (plus perks). They are not particularly bright or ambitious (sheeple mentality); this kind of career track was the norm for government workers who hung in there, year after year.


I mention this brief history because that was then and this is now. If you dropped out of high school today, there would be no government job with all the perks waiting for you. In particular, the employment field has been altered drastically over the past 20 years, and not for the better. In some cases, wages have risen only a few dollars, remained stagnant, or even declined. After graduating university in the late 1980s, I started doing temp work at $12 to $16 per hour. The wages for that same job, more than 20 years later, are today around $10. In the late 1980s, a bachelor apartment was $250 to $300 a month. That same apartment is now around $1,200. We won't go into how food and every other cost has likewise exponentially risen.


Without credit or loans, people starting out today cannot survive unless they pool their resources, live four or five to a bachelor apartment, and work 80 hours a week. The "good" jobs are few and far between. Dropping out of high school and nabbing a cushy government job for life is simply no longer possible.


I feel sorry for the kids. I'm not surprised that most of them drink or smoke themselves into a stupor every night. We have created an unsustainable world, right across the board. There was a piece in my local news paper this morning about how retired professors at a local university earn their full salary as a pension until they die. The university is having problems paying the pensions (there's a shortfall of $270 million this year), which will then be paid by taxpayers. This is only one example.


My parents' generation have lived unrealistic, unsustainable lives and set unrealistic, unsustainable goals. In doing so, they've set themselves up nicely in a system that is ponzi by nature, but the scheme is now unraveling. This is a cold hard fact. Don't blame the kids. That they're only 'occupying', is a blessing. If I were 30 years younger, I'd be getting out the pitchfork.
BigNutChuck  (OP)

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10/16/2011 07:54 AM

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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
My parents both dropped out of school when they were 17 and they both immediately got jobs with the government (with only a Grade 11 education). After working about 40 years, they both retired at the top of their respective fields and now draw around $300 thousand in iron-clad government pensions (plus perks). They are not particularly bright or ambitious (sheeple mentality); this kind of career track was the norm for government workers who hung in there, year after year.


I mention this brief history because that was then and this is now. If you dropped out of high school today, there would be no government job with all the perks waiting for you. In particular, the employment field has been altered drastically over the past 20 years, and not for the better. In some cases, wages have risen only a few dollars, remained stagnant, or even declined. After graduating university in the late 1980s, I started doing temp work at $12 to $16 per hour. The wages for that same job, more than 20 years later, are today around $10. In the late 1980s, a bachelor apartment was $250 to $300 a month. That same apartment is now around $1,200. We won't go into how food and every other cost has likewise exponentially risen.


Without credit or loans, people starting out today cannot survive unless they pool their resources, live four or five to a bachelor apartment, and work 80 hours a week. The "good" jobs are few and far between. Dropping out of high school and nabbing a cushy government job for life is simply no longer possible.


I feel sorry for the kids. I'm not surprised that most of them drink or smoke themselves into a stupor every night. We have created an unsustainable world, right across the board. There was a piece in my local news paper this morning about how retired professors at a local university earn their full salary as a pension until they die. The university is having problems paying the pensions (there's a shortfall of $270 million this year), which will then be paid by taxpayers. This is only one example.


My parents' generation have lived unrealistic, unsustainable lives and set unrealistic, unsustainable goals. In doing so, they've set themselves up nicely in a system that is ponzi by nature, but the scheme is now unraveling. This is a cold hard fact. Don't blame the kids. That they're only 'occupying', is a blessing. If I were 30 years younger, I'd be getting out the pitchfork.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3413084


clappa
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Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2011 07:56 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
Don't get a job, get 2 and have your spouse get 1 on the side. I have a day job with a 2 hour commute each way. When I get home, I start my other job on the side. I support myself, my wife and e children. My wife is a stay at home mother as we did the math, her working a regular full time job would not cover the day care and someone else is raising our kids. So when the kids go to school, she cleans houses to pay for the gas for my 4 hours of driving each day. She enjoys aerobics so she got her certification to teach. Now she gets paid to stay in shape and bring in additional money.

We go camping for a vacation and the kids love it! alot cheaper than staying in a hotel and the kids actually learn something

There are ways to cut back and save. I have about 1000.00 in brakes, rotors and front end alignment that needed to be done to my minivan with 135k miles on it. I did not have to charge it on visa because we are working our ass off and have the money to do it. I also am not going to run out and buy a new car because this one looks great and it is a honda...which means I can drive it for another 135k miles if I want to.

Think out of the box and work as a team and you can do this.

The next phase is to get even better jobs to work smart...not hard.
Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2011 07:58 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
Don't get a job, get 2 and have your spouse get 1 on the side. I have a day job with a 2 hour commute each way. When I get home, I start my other job on the side. I support myself, my wife and e children. My wife is a stay at home mother as we did the math, her working a regular full time job would not cover the day care and someone else is raising our kids. So when the kids go to school, she cleans houses to pay for the gas for my 4 hours of driving each day. She enjoys aerobics so she got her certification to teach. Now she gets paid to stay in shape and bring in additional money.

We go camping for a vacation and the kids love it! alot cheaper than staying in a hotel and the kids actually learn something

There are ways to cut back and save. I have about 1000.00 in brakes, rotors and front end alignment that needed to be done to my minivan with 135k miles on it. I did not have to charge it on visa because we are working our ass off and have the money to do it. I also am not going to run out and buy a new car because this one looks great and it is a honda...which means I can drive it for another 135k miles if I want to.

Think out of the box and work as a team and you can do this.

The next phase is to get even better jobs to work smart...not hard.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2127318


supposed to be 3 children...not e children. "E Children"...sounds like a new internet site for people who do not want to sacrifice for real children and will go to an internet site, pay $30 per month and have virtual kids. I can put it on facebook and make millions in advertising dollars
Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2011 08:00 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
great post OP and you have been very lenient with prices too. the banks are fucking up the world
Southernbella

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10/16/2011 08:01 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
This is why I just love these get a job people. And these you should pay cash for a house and car people.

Let say a kid gets out of college with a degree and finds a job or jobs. Right now 40,000 a year would be huge for most to find and probably very unlikely for a graduate, but we will use this number.

So after taxes, ss, state tax if you have one, medical, dental, life, medicare etc

Your bring home is about 1300-1200 every 2 weeks
This is 2600-2400 a month.

Ok letís pay some bills.

Monthly

Rent 750-Very modest guess. All know some will lower,higher
Car 200- very low cheap car.
Car insurance 100 for decent
150 electricity-- very low for most
50 for gas if you have it.
100 for vehicle gas.

No cable or internet cause we don't want to live to great.
No cell phones because we can't afford this luxury.


Groceries
400 a month.

This is not eating out at all or getting anything from quicky mart. This is very modest considering prices now.


So we are at 1750. From 2600 using the high number this leaves us about 850, but wait. We went to college.

So since we didn't come from rich parents we have to pay for that. Let's say we go to a small cheap school and work part time to pay the room and board.

2000 a semester. Very low price compared to 90%

4 years of school. By the way it is almost impossible to get a 4 year degree anymore, especially while working.

So 4000 a year x 4 years is 16000.


16000 is about a 400 payment a month on student loans.


Now we are up to 2150 - 2600 leaves us about 450 extra.

We are not including any movies, out to eat, up keep on car, pops-candy, lawn care for rent house, medical bills for co-pay, etc.


Hell we will round it up to a big $500 a month extra. Now letís start saving so we can pay cash and not borrow.

First we need a house and car.

Modest house 150,000. NO LAND besides lot and this probably doesn't exist in price in most places.

So $500 a month savings = $6000 a year.

So it will only take 25 years to save cash for a house at this price.
But wait--in 25 years that house will cost twice that because of inflation.
So 50 years.


Ok letís get a car.
3 years = 18000 which will buy a piece of shit. These cars normally last 5 years maybe a little more, and they are worth shit nothing when you try to sell them back.

So we get a trade in for $6000 after seven years with the first car we bought. We have to buy a car every 7 years at 18,000.

We will need around 4 cars for the next 28 years, first one being bought for full price. 18000 + 12000 + 12000 + 12000

Hell this is only $54,000. That is another 9 years of saving on top of the 50 for the house. Plus we only figured the cars for 28 years not counting inflation.

So with the math if we started when we are 22 we might have enough cash for a house and keep our cars paid for in cash by the time we are 80 or more.

We won't be able to retire or afford anything else, but by God WE WONíT BE BUMS.


So all you people saying that you pay cash for all your shit and are not in debt are either full of complete shit or came into money somewhere. I suspect most of you got your cash from your momma and you are the true bums. Some of you might have worked your way up the ladder, but at what cost. Some might have built a successful business and are very lucky because if you tried that shit now you would be screwed.

Point being in this long ass post.

Quit blaming these kids. Go get a job is not going to fix shit and you know it. Do the math. Slavery is the end game and they got it.
 Quoting: BigNutChuck


Thanks for painting the REAL picture. Rich people will never understand, they got theirs and f___ anybody that wasn't able to be rich enough to get it their way. They're clueless to what is really going on.

Jubilee = Jubilation for all.

5***** & 1 karma
BigNutChuck  (OP)

User ID: 1140210
United States
10/16/2011 08:04 AM

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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
Don't get a job, get 2 and have your spouse get 1 on the side. I have a day job with a 2 hour commute each way. When I get home, I start my other job on the side. I support myself, my wife and e children. My wife is a stay at home mother as we did the math, her working a regular full time job would not cover the day care and someone else is raising our kids. So when the kids go to school, she cleans houses to pay for the gas for my 4 hours of driving each day. She enjoys aerobics so she got her certification to teach. Now she gets paid to stay in shape and bring in additional money.

We go camping for a vacation and the kids love it! alot cheaper than staying in a hotel and the kids actually learn something

There are ways to cut back and save. I have about 1000.00 in brakes, rotors and front end alignment that needed to be done to my minivan with 135k miles on it. I did not have to charge it on visa because we are working our ass off and have the money to do it. I also am not going to run out and buy a new car because this one looks great and it is a honda...which means I can drive it for another 135k miles if I want to.

Think out of the box and work as a team and you can do this.

The next phase is to get even better jobs to work smart...not hard.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2127318


Ok, good for you.

You didn't mention your house. Either you are renting or you have a loan.

So what happens if that vehicle of yours just dies. You got the cash to buy a whole new one or good used one.

What happens if along with the vehicle one of your kids get sick really bad. You got the cash to cover what the insurance won't.

What happens if you lose one of your two jobs. OR you wife loses her job because people can't afford the classes.

I am glad you are making it, but it sounds like you are barely making it and one bump and you are screwed. Well alot of Americans hit that bump and yet the solution on this website from most is find another job.

You work your ass off for a life that will never let you have any freedom. You are making it, but you are a slave a day away from unemployment or being homeless, same as the rest of us.

Who the hell would think this is the way life is supposed to be. Is this what you want for your kids future?
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goodmockingbird

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10/16/2011 08:05 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
Now, you just have to take a smarter route to what you want to do.

They want everyone in debt. Don't put yourself in that situation. There are other ways
 Quoting: ThirdEyeBrown


Explain how there are other ways.

 Quoting: BigNutChuck


Do your homework on each and every expense in your life and find the best, cheapest option.

In the OP's original post, he refered to an $18,000 car as a "piece of shit".

You can buy an extremely reliable, comfortable 3 to 5 year old car for that amount IF you do your homework, educate yourself and take your time shopping.

Or you could make do with an old, ugly, beat up 10 year old car, and save the $8,000 to $13,000 price difference.

And what do you call an $18,000 car with some cosmetic body damage? You call it a $10,000 car. And thus in exchange for suffering the humiliation of driving an ugly car, you pocket the difference.

Let go of thinking about a car -- or your address, or any product -- as being any kind of a reflection on you as a person, live humbly below your means.

The whole attitude of the OP's post, characterised by the statement that an $18,000 car is necessarily a piece of shit, illustrates the lack of nitty-gritty it takes to choose wisely and flourish free from debt.

Educate yourself on each and every expense in your life!

Conciously choose to "make do" with where you live or what you drive, rather than give a damn about the prestige or humiliation associated with it.

Freedom from debt does come at a "price" -- and that price is called Delayed Gratification. And it is called Humility.

Oh, but sweet, sweet freedom it is.

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Southernbella

User ID: 954820
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10/16/2011 08:08 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!

"has a right to have a car or a house. They have a right to work for it." Quoting A-Troll



You've been brainwashed!!!

Everyone should have a food, clothes and a home. No one should have to work for the basics to live.

Last Edited by Southernbella on 10/16/2011 08:11 AM
Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2011 08:10 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
OP, thank you for that hf
People who are confused and glued into the "system" just can't or simply refuse to "get it".
They are very spiteful and unwilling to look at things outside of their own personal box.
Sad really.
People who have a lot of money are controlled by every aspect of that. That is why you see the owners of this forum talking shit. Yeah, the owners who have google ads up the ass amongst other things.
Their opinion is invalid, error, 404. It sucks, but I know one day they will wake up :)
BigNutChuck  (OP)

User ID: 1140210
United States
10/16/2011 08:12 AM

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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
Now, you just have to take a smarter route to what you want to do.

They want everyone in debt. Don't put yourself in that situation. There are other ways
 Quoting: ThirdEyeBrown


Explain how there are other ways.

 Quoting: BigNutChuck


Do your homework on each and every expense in your life and find the best, cheapest option.

In the OP's original post, he refered to an $18,000 car as a "piece of shit".

You can buy an extremely reliable, comfortable 3 to 5 year old car for that amount IF you do your homework, educate yourself and take your time shopping.

Or you could make do with an old, ugly, beat up 10 year old car, and save the $8,000 to $13,000 price difference.

And what do you call an $18,000 car with some cosmetic body damage? You call it a $10,000 car. And thus in exchange for suffering the humiliation of driving an ugly car, you pocket the difference.

Let go of thinking about a car -- or your address, or any product -- as being any kind of a reflection on you as a person, live humbly below your means.

The whole attitude of the OP's post, characterised by the statement that an $18,000 car is necessarily a piece of shit, illustrates the lack of nitty-gritty it takes to choose wisely and flourish free from debt.

Educate yourself on each and every expense in your life!

Conciously choose to "make do" with where you live or what you drive, rather than give a damn about the prestige or humiliation associated with it.

Freedom from debt does come at a "price" -- and that price is called Delayed Gratification. And it is called Humility.

Oh, but sweet, sweet freedom it is.

 Quoting: goodmockingbird


No my whole idea of calling a 18,000 car a piece of shit is because now days they are complete pieces of shit that are made not to last on purpose.

Plastic crap that you might get 7 years out of.

You say find a used car. Ok well they have been making these cars not to last for a while now. Why? So you have to buy another one. Same reason that when you drive it off the lot the car is now worth half what you paid for it.


I agree about going through stuff, but I did not see any conclusion that would leave someone debt free. No matter what you say there is nothing a kid now days can do to get ahead without borrowing a lot of money.

Only I guess a trust fund.

P.S. Even with your logic you still are slaved to debt. 150,000 house is about as cheap as you get in most places.
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Anonymous Coward
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Sweden
10/16/2011 08:24 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
nice post OP.

bumping
Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2011 08:28 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
someone pin this
Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2011 08:31 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
This is why I just love these get a job people. And these you should pay cash for a house and car people.

Let say a kid gets out of college with a degree and finds a job or jobs. Right now 40,000 a year would be huge for most to find and probably very unlikely for a graduate, but we will use this number.

So after taxes, ss, state tax if you have one, medical, dental, life, medicare etc

Your bring home is about 1300-1200 every 2 weeks
This is 2600-2400 a month.

Ok letís pay some bills.

Monthly

Rent 750-Very modest guess. All know some will lower,higher
Car 200- very low cheap car.
Car insurance 100 for decent
150 electricity-- very low for most
50 for gas if you have it.
100 for vehicle gas.

No cable or internet cause we don't want to live to great.
No cell phones because we can't afford this luxury.


Groceries
400 a month.

This is not eating out at all or getting anything from quicky mart. This is very modest considering prices now.


So we are at 1750. From 2600 using the high number this leaves us about 850, but wait. We went to college.

So since we didn't come from rich parents we have to pay for that. Let's say we go to a small cheap school and work part time to pay the room and board.

2000 a semester. Very low price compared to 90%

4 years of school. By the way it is almost impossible to get a 4 year degree anymore, especially while working.

So 4000 a year x 4 years is 16000.


16000 is about a 400 payment a month on student loans.


Now we are up to 2150 - 2600 leaves us about 450 extra.

We are not including any movies, out to eat, up keep on car, pops-candy, lawn care for rent house, medical bills for co-pay, etc.


Hell we will round it up to a big $500 a month extra. Now letís start saving so we can pay cash and not borrow.

First we need a house and car.

Modest house 150,000. NO LAND besides lot and this probably doesn't exist in price in most places.

So $500 a month savings = $6000 a year.

So it will only take 25 years to save cash for a house at this price.
But wait--in 25 years that house will cost twice that because of inflation.
So 50 years.


Ok letís get a car.
3 years = 18000 which will buy a piece of shit. These cars normally last 5 years maybe a little more, and they are worth shit nothing when you try to sell them back.

So we get a trade in for $6000 after seven years with the first car we bought. We have to buy a car every 7 years at 18,000.

We will need around 4 cars for the next 28 years, first one being bought for full price. 18000 + 12000 + 12000 + 12000

Hell this is only $54,000. That is another 9 years of saving on top of the 50 for the house. Plus we only figured the cars for 28 years not counting inflation.

So with the math if we started when we are 22 we might have enough cash for a house and keep our cars paid for in cash by the time we are 80 or more.

We won't be able to retire or afford anything else, but by God WE WONíT BE BUMS.


So all you people saying that you pay cash for all your shit and are not in debt are either full of complete shit or came into money somewhere. I suspect most of you got your cash from your momma and you are the true bums. Some of you might have worked your way up the ladder, but at what cost. Some might have built a successful business and are very lucky because if you tried that shit now you would be screwed.

Point being in this long ass post.

Quit blaming these kids. Go get a job is not going to fix shit and you know it. Do the math. Slavery is the end game and they got it.
 Quoting: BigNutChuck


Great post OP. In the words of George Carlin, "The table is tilted, the game is rigged."
goodmockingbird

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10/16/2011 08:32 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!


Everyone should have a food, clothes and a home. No one should have to work for the basics to live.
 Quoting: Southernbella


This is a joke, right?

Last Edited by goodmockingbird on 10/16/2011 08:33 AM
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10/16/2011 08:32 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
One point:

The calcs assume the person retains same 40K per year salary until retirement and doesnt allow for promotion and a pay increase
Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2011 08:41 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!


Everyone should have a food, clothes and a home. No one should have to work for the basics to live.
 Quoting: Southernbella


This is a joke, right?
 Quoting: goodmockingbird


NO IT IS NOT A JOKE. TELL US WHY TECHNOLOGY THAT WAS CREATED OVER 50 YEARS AGO BY NICOLA TESLA, WHICH WOULD GIVE TO WHOLE PLANET FREE ENERGY, HAS BEEN SUPPRESSED AND DENIED OUR ACCESS?!!!!





GLP