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Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!

 
Skeptically Inclined

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10/17/2011 01:25 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
WHY BACK THE BANKERS AND NOT THE PROTESTERS?????
THE BANKERS ARE TAKING YOUR MONEY!
THE PROTESTERS JUST WANT TO BE FREE!!!!!!

^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

To all the crazy's on this site complaining and fearing what OWS is.

All of us have common ground with this group why are the owners, and other site residents targeting the protesters like criminals? Focus it where they are people!! At the BANKERS who ripped ME and YOU off!!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3472702


Agreed.

But according to some people. We "deserved" this and "had it coming". Nice, eh?
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2011 01:28 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!


Economies have traditionally risen, and fallen. Prospered, and then tightened up. Gotta roll with the punches, man... Do what you gotta do - and right now it just might be simple living, as stress-free as you can make it. And that means downsizing.

Some of us actually prefer simplicity.

And yes - I still hate what corporate america is doing. And I feel real bad that so many were duped by the memes, ie - "real estate never goes down." and "A college education is worth a huge loan." and "a college education always pays off." This was and is bullshit aimed at the sheeple to induce us into debt. The "American Dream" was really always just an illusion, and many that appeared to achieve it did it on borrowed funds, and empty promises.

I would love to see the aliens come and end this corrupt monetary/political/corporate/military industrial complex machine. I would love to see the world become a truly rational and people-oriented humanitarian planet.

But unfortunately, the "company store" concept was simply expanded - it was always a club, and you ain't in it!

Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2011 01:30 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
WHY BACK THE BANKERS AND NOT THE PROTESTERS?????
THE BANKERS ARE TAKING YOUR MONEY!
THE PROTESTERS JUST WANT TO BE FREE!!!!!!

^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

To all the crazy's on this site complaining and fearing what OWS is.

All of us have common ground with this group why are the owners, and other site residents targeting the protesters like criminals? Focus it where they are people!! At the BANKERS who ripped ME and YOU off!!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3472702


I dunno, I put 50$ in a savings account this spring and have received an interest payment amounting to 8c. I now have 50.08$ in that account and correct me if I'm wrong, but it sure seems like the bank GAVE me money instead of taking it away.

The protesters don't know what freedom is, and I certainly don't fear them.
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2011 01:34 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!

Economies have traditionally risen, and fallen. Prospered, and then tightened up. Gotta roll with the punches, man... Do what you gotta do - and right now it just might be simple living, as stress-free as you can make it. And that means downsizing.

Some of us actually prefer simplicity.

And yes - I still hate what corporate america is doing. And I feel real bad that so many were duped by the memes, ie - "real estate never goes down." and "A college education is worth a huge loan." and "a college education always pays off." This was and is bullshit aimed at the sheeple to induce us into debt. The "American Dream" was really always just an illusion, and many that appeared to achieve it did it on borrowed funds, and empty promises.

I would love to see the aliens come and end this corrupt monetary/political/corporate/military industrial complex machine. I would love to see the world become a truly rational and people-oriented humanitarian planet.

But unfortunately, the "company store" concept was simply expanded - it was always a club, and you ain't in it!


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward


BTW - the post above was intended as a response to the person who said this:

"OMG how ignorant.

You two are not providing SOLUTIONS - you are talking about band-aids! Except those kind of band-aids don't allow for healing - they just cover the real problems that fester. And THAT is what has gotten this country in such trouble. No solutions, just temporary and inappropriate patches."
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2011 02:08 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
It's either the wealthy and arrogant with no compassion looking down their noses at those who didn't have the opportunities OR it's those who have the lowest of standards who are advocating such a mindset.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3458912


Lowest of standards???? Simplicity of living is "lowest of standards"??? Debt-free, with savings, little stress - without all the flashy toys, fake boobs, manicures, Starbucks lattes, uber-consumerism is "lowest of standards"???
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2011 02:17 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
WHY BACK THE BANKERS AND NOT THE PROTESTERS?????
THE BANKERS ARE TAKING YOUR MONEY!
THE PROTESTERS JUST WANT TO BE FREE!!!!!!

^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

To all the crazy's on this site complaining and fearing what OWS is.

All of us have common ground with this group why are the owners, and other site residents targeting the protesters like criminals? Focus it where they are people!! At the BANKERS who ripped ME and YOU off!!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3472702


I dunno, I put 50$ in a savings account this spring and have received an interest payment amounting to 8c. I now have 50.08$ in that account and correct me if I'm wrong, but it sure seems like the bank GAVE me money instead of taking it away.

The protesters don't know what freedom is, and I certainly don't fear them.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1309528

LOL
You think they have your money?? Have you heard of fractional reserve banking? Look it up.
I'm not an OWS fan, but claiming the banks have the money you gave them is bullshit.
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2011 02:33 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
FUCK the ancestors. I am so fed up with this reliance on the past . . . this is what people did a hundred years ago or fifty years ago or . . . blah blah.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3458912


Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

There has been a lot of pain in the past. It looks to me like you're going to get the chance to go through it all again.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3218991



That is a tiresome and trite, outdated way of thinking.

Society relies heavily on the past . . . what good has it done? It has served no purpose. Most people do NOT learn from the past. They wallow in it, they conveniently use it to try and support their weak arguments, etc. But it serves no legitimate purpose.

Yes, each person "should" learn from their OWN past, they should live as well as they can today, and plan gently for the future.

But this notion of history and ancestors and founding fathers is pointless.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3458912


If the public knew (when they created the central bank, then the Fed) the American Revolution had a currency that was fiat and hyperinflation ruined the economy and that's why Congress was only authorized to make coin out of gold and silver, we wouldn't be in the whole mess!!! Get them to focus on THAT!
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2011 02:46 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
In the end, this is what it comes down to. Deny it all you want and continue fighting your fellow man while you allow this madness to REMAIN:
Technology exists which would give every person on this planet free energy, free food, free clothing, free shelter, etc.
This technology is not available to us. Governments, Corporations, CIA, etc have been making sure of it for longer than you know.

If you can't grasp or accept that truth, then like always, you are the sheep who allow this to continue.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 988185


i want to hear responses to this from the "get a job" people...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 988185


Recreate it and sell it. There's a good job for you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3218991


you dont understand. it is not and will not be allowed to become a reality with the current greedy governments and corporations. do you really not get it???
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2011 03:40 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
Bump for truth!

Interesting how the guys who run this forum have taken the gloves off to give us a good brainwashing.

Eat your gruel, dink!
Oh wait, that book is banned now...
Lady Wolf

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10/17/2011 03:57 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
My parents both dropped out of school when they were 17 and they both immediately got jobs with the government (with only a Grade 11 education). After working about 40 years, they both retired at the top of their respective fields and now draw around $300 thousand in iron-clad government pensions (plus perks). They are not particularly bright or ambitious (sheeple mentality); this kind of career track was the norm for government workers who hung in there, year after year.


I mention this brief history because that was then and this is now. If you dropped out of high school today, there would be no government job with all the perks waiting for you. In particular, the employment field has been altered drastically over the past 20 years, and not for the better. In some cases, wages have risen only a few dollars, remained stagnant, or even declined. After graduating university in the late 1980s, I started doing temp work at $12 to $16 per hour. The wages for that same job, more than 20 years later, are today around $10. In the late 1980s, a bachelor apartment was $250 to $300 a month. That same apartment is now around $1,200. We won't go into how food and every other cost has likewise exponentially risen.


Without credit or loans, people starting out today cannot survive unless they pool their resources, live four or five to a bachelor apartment, and work 80 hours a week. The "good" jobs are few and far between. Dropping out of high school and nabbing a cushy government job for life is simply no longer possible.


I feel sorry for the kids. I'm not surprised that most of them drink or smoke themselves into a stupor every night. We have created an unsustainable world, right across the board. There was a piece in my local news paper this morning about how retired professors at a local university earn their full salary as a pension until they die. The university is having problems paying the pensions (there's a shortfall of $270 million this year), which will then be paid by taxpayers. This is only one example.


My parents' generation have lived unrealistic, unsustainable lives and set unrealistic, unsustainable goals. In doing so, they've set themselves up nicely in a system that is ponzi by nature, but the scheme is now unraveling. This is a cold hard fact. Don't blame the kids. That they're only 'occupying', is a blessing. If I were 30 years younger, I'd be getting out the pitchfork.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3413084


^^This!!^^ clappa

My oldest daughter had to move to the Caribbean from California just to be able to begin her nursing career! She completed all her prerequisites at the community college here in CA but then found herself on a waiting list that was too long to measure! There is a shortage of nursing instructors in California. So what happens? After moving to the Caribbean to attend the American University of Antigua she finds out that she arrived just in time for them to put a freeze on the nursing courses taught there. Why? Because the school is accredited through New York. They put a freeze on the schools overseas due to the influx of waiting nursing students in the states!! I kid you not! So now she is stuck in Antigua. Fortunately for her and her husband, he was able to secured work there for a good wage prior to them moving. And she recently found work with the same company @ minimum wage. In the mean time, they continue to work to pay off debt and save up to get the hell out of there.

My youngest daughter is working full-time 5 days a week at a very physically demanding job, that is in line with her chosen career. She works for an animal sanctuary, as an exotic cat care taker and is in charge of the habitat and diet of 30 tigers and 4 lions. The other two days a week she is attending school toward her career of choice in Veterinary medicine. She has NO days off where she's not either working or going to school. She shares a house with two room mates.

My son, is currently over seas deployed in the Middle East in the United States Airforce. He's currently away from his new wife and baby on the way because of a stupid war that's yet to be defined in Afganistan!! redface Luckily for him he's on a base located in an allied country, he should be safe. He works as a fire fighter and is in Fire Protection. But he and his wife who now lives with us miss each other very much. He may or may not make it back in time for the delivery of his first child. He knows he's lucky to have been excepted into the Air Force and to have the job he has! Especially when he hears all the stories of his peers struggling to make ends meet back at home.

My point? All three of my kids are working their tails off just to make ends meet and hopefully secure some type of future career for themselves. They have all received financial support from us from time to time just so they can continue toward their goals. It is NOT easy at all for these kids now days. Period! And unfortunately...I only see it getting worse:(

My husband and I are both working still. He works five days a week and goes to school on two of them. He's trying to work toward a career now that the kids have grown up and are "on their own." He's chosen a career in the medical field as a Physician's Assistant. As a PA, he only has to attend half the schooling that an MD must take. I'm working for the same company part-time. I'm next in line for the next full-time slot that opens up, but so far the company seems to be doing its own belt tightening. After both being laid off from another company where we were both working full time, we consider ourselves lucky to have found jobs again in the same line of work. Before that happened though...we lost our home and one of our vehicles. We picked up the pieces and found a rental, only to be booted out of the rental because the OWNER of our rental lost the house to the bank!! We are now in another rental and hoping to be able to stay here long enough to be able to save up enough in our retirement accounts to buy another home outright! We are just sooo tired of being jerked around by the system. Prior to being laid off and losing our home and our vehicle, we were both in the 800's on our Fico score. After the rug was literally ripped out from under us, I don't even want to know what it is now:(

For those who would ridicule these protesters...I have only one thing to say to you!

THEREFORE BY THE GRACE OF GOD GO YE!!

You'd best be counting your blessings instead of putting down and ridiculing those less fortunate! redface

Last Edited by Aware & Watching... on 10/17/2011 04:04 AM
Real truth is self evident...
Spittin'Cesium

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10/17/2011 03:59 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
My Monkey can cook Eggs.

Fact.
The thing that hath been,
is That which shall be;
and that which is done is that which shall be done:and there is no new thing under the Sun.
Ecclesiastes 9:1
Spittin'Cesium

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10/17/2011 04:05 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
There are more Debts in Derivative $'s than there are Stars in the Universe..
Thats' got to be Illegal?

Last Edited by Spittin'Cesium on 10/17/2011 04:06 AM
The thing that hath been,
is That which shall be;
and that which is done is that which shall be done:and there is no new thing under the Sun.
Ecclesiastes 9:1
Lady Wolf

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10/17/2011 05:03 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
Great post OP.

In some areas, you do need a car to work - for example in areas where there is no public transportation, and riding a bicycle down high traffic streets is living dangerously. You can't walk to work in rain or 100 degree weather and look or smell presentable when you arrive. So, sometimes, a car is a necessity.

The OP's post also demonstrates why you can't live on minimum wage without gov assistance.

Also, we should factor in luck. Yes, it is important. You are lucky if you do not get divorced or have medical issues. These are the two leading factors that result in bankruptcy.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1380917


Don't forget to add job loss or worse..dual job loss:(
Real truth is self evident...
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2011 05:22 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
Bump & Pin I respect you OP greatly for bringing this situation in a different light, the movement either way via this site will be setup & looked upon as a conspiracy, you guys find ways to mess up anything good and converted and over exaggerate it. Either way, these humans are not going anywhere, they demand a new life, new system where the environment and humans don't need to pay a heavy price. The humans before fought hard & dreamed hard for a "free society" where all were taken care of.... do you even think this system and life is it? It's not, many left behind, many forgotten, many stories that will never reach the internet.... get off your chairs and be a reporter for yourself talk with those there. To everyoone, to a future for all to have a greater life
Soultrain

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10/17/2011 05:25 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
WHY BACK THE BANKERS AND NOT THE PROTESTERS?????
THE BANKERS ARE TAKING YOUR MONEY!
THE PROTESTERS JUST WANT TO BE FREE!!!!!!

^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

To all the crazy's on this site complaining and fearing what OWS is.

All of us have common ground with this group why are the owners, and other site residents targeting the protesters like criminals? Focus it where they are people!! At the BANKERS who ripped ME and YOU off!!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3472702


I dunno, I put 50$ in a savings account this spring and have received an interest payment amounting to 8c. I now have 50.08$ in that account and correct me if I'm wrong, but it sure seems like the bank GAVE me money instead of taking it away.

The protesters don't know what freedom is, and I certainly don't fear them.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1309528


Lol. Meanwhile, the bank through slight of hand has transformed that $50 into over a grand, bought a tangible asset that you couldn't initially afford, and thanks to inflation caused by an ever increasing money supply, your $50.08 buys only $40 worth of shit. Congrats
Spiritual Views: AS MANY PATHS AS PEOPLE!!!
Lady Wolf

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10/17/2011 06:20 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
I still see people fighting in convincing eachother that they are wrong instead of finding things that we all have in common in today's society.

Fact is that today's society has become more individualistic and materialistic than say 30/40 years ago. Community sense has been replaced by fear, mistrust and society of sanctions. "If you don't do this, than that will happen.."

Fact is that there are not half as many jobs available as there were 30 years ago. Technology has taken over a lot of human labor, so there are far more people applying for the same job now than 30/40 yrs ago.

Fact is that wages for the same job have not kept track with the rising cost of living. In fact, today's newcomers for a job that paid well in the past, will most likely get paid far less than newcomers in the same job 30/40 years ago (percentage wise of course.) All under the excuse of companies needing to cut costs in order to survive.

Fact is that a lot of people do not want to do dirty basic jobs, like cleaning, for small wages, so companies hire foreigners. To say that they steal your job is a poor excuse for yourself not wanting to do that job.

Fact is that the younger generation is stimulated to get at least a degree or go to university in order to "be able to build a better life than previous generations." All that leads to is companies hardly being able to fill for instance lower technical positions in production and an overkill of well educated, deep in debt, highly qualified people for way to little higher ranked positions. Result is more unemployment in those fields.

Fact is that companies do not see their people as added value, but as costs. First cuts are often cuts in people, leading to more pressure on the remaining crew, less commitment, higher sick leave rates, more stress related family dramas and a increasing split up of society between working and not working, rich and poor. Also leading to people being less willing to stand up for eachother, because who knows, they may be next in line to get laid off.

Fact is that people are more affraid to look eachother in the eye and make a joke to a complete stranger than 30 yrs ago, affraid that the other might get it wrong and start a fight.

You all have valid points in this discussion, but trying to convince eachother that way will not solve the problems we are facing.

Basic point is that if this society of young and old, companies and employees and people in general do not start working together to face this downswing, in a couple of years, there will be no other society left, but a cold, dark one without empathy, in which only the right of the most powerful counts. That goes for people as well as companies.

We all can name a thousand threats, but those who go for solutions are the ones that stand out. Open your eyes and respect the other's opinion, work together and go from solutions and opportunities instead of the easy path of threats and fear.
 Quoting: InterMezzo


Well said!! headbang clappa
Real truth is self evident...
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2011 07:58 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
WHY BACK THE BANKERS AND NOT THE PROTESTERS?????
THE BANKERS ARE TAKING YOUR MONEY!
THE PROTESTERS JUST WANT TO BE FREE!!!!!!

^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

To all the crazy's on this site complaining and fearing what OWS is.

All of us have common ground with this group why are the owners, and other site residents targeting the protesters like criminals? Focus it where they are people!! At the BANKERS who ripped ME and YOU off!!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3472702


I dunno, I put 50$ in a savings account this spring and have received an interest payment amounting to 8c. I now have 50.08$ in that account and correct me if I'm wrong, but it sure seems like the bank GAVE me money instead of taking it away.

The protesters don't know what freedom is, and I certainly don't fear them.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1309528


Lol. Meanwhile, the bank through slight of hand has transformed that $50 into over a grand, bought a tangible asset that you couldn't initially afford, and thanks to inflation caused by an ever increasing money supply, your $50.08 buys only $40 worth of shit. Congrats
 Quoting: Soultrain


Well actually certain prices have decreased, oil and gas for instance since when I put that money in the account. I don't think inflation is quite that severe, besides we wouldn't be able to maintain status as the global reserve currency with-out inflation.
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2011 08:00 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
WHY BACK THE BANKERS AND NOT THE PROTESTERS?????
THE BANKERS ARE TAKING YOUR MONEY!
THE PROTESTERS JUST WANT TO BE FREE!!!!!!

^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

To all the crazy's on this site complaining and fearing what OWS is.

All of us have common ground with this group why are the owners, and other site residents targeting the protesters like criminals? Focus it where they are people!! At the BANKERS who ripped ME and YOU off!!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3472702


I dunno, I put 50$ in a savings account this spring and have received an interest payment amounting to 8c. I now have 50.08$ in that account and correct me if I'm wrong, but it sure seems like the bank GAVE me money instead of taking it away.

The protesters don't know what freedom is, and I certainly don't fear them.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1309528

LOL
You think they have your money?? Have you heard of fractional reserve banking? Look it up.
I'm not an OWS fan, but claiming the banks have the money you gave them is bullshit.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2159872


Of course they don't have the money, but I'm fairly certain if went there today, I could get my 50$ back plus 8c. 8c is 8c.

Of course I know about fractional reserve lending. Much commerce would not exist with out it.
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2011 08:12 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
You are BRILLIANT, no troll. I should register just to give you good karma.
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2011 08:13 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
Bump & Pin I respect you OP greatly for bringing this situation in a different light, the movement either way via this site will be setup & looked upon as a conspiracy, you guys find ways to mess up anything good and converted and over exaggerate it. Either way, these humans are not going anywhere, they demand a new life, new system where the environment and humans don't need to pay a heavy price. The humans before fought hard & dreamed hard for a "free society" where all were taken care of.... do you even think this system and life is it? It's not, many left behind, many forgotten, many stories that will never reach the internet.... get off your chairs and be a reporter for yourself talk with those there. To everyoone, to a future for all to have a greater life
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3277258



Where does the belief come from that the ones before us worked to provide a free society for the rest?

My grandparents survived the depession. They were NOT working to provide for anyone but themselves. They believed in personal accountability. No handouts. No way. From anyone. Anyone looking for a bail-out was considered....ignorant beyond words.

If you want a new life and a new society....fine. But you have to have the skills to BUILD it. Otherwise you are just sitting around throwing a tantrum. The people working for a solution are too busy to protest.
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2011 08:28 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
Bump & Pin I respect you OP greatly for bringing this situation in a different light, the movement either way via this site will be setup & looked upon as a conspiracy, you guys find ways to mess up anything good and converted and over exaggerate it. Either way, these humans are not going anywhere, they demand a new life, new system where the environment and humans don't need to pay a heavy price. The humans before fought hard & dreamed hard for a "free society" where all were taken care of.... do you even think this system and life is it? It's not, many left behind, many forgotten, many stories that will never reach the internet.... get off your chairs and be a reporter for yourself talk with those there. To everyoone, to a future for all to have a greater life
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3277258



Where does the belief come from that the ones before us worked to provide a free society for the rest?

My grandparents survived the depession. They were NOT working to provide for anyone but themselves. They believed in personal accountability. No handouts. No way. From anyone. Anyone looking for a bail-out was considered....ignorant beyond words.

If you want a new life and a new society....fine. But you have to have the skills to BUILD it. Otherwise you are just sitting around throwing a tantrum. The people working for a solution are too busy to protest.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1734272


Its the Leninist-communist plan to enslave people in their own self-righteousness. Tantrum is a good word, and you are absolutely correct, regular working people are at WORK, not whining in the street.
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2011 08:37 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
There are more Debts in Derivative $'s than there are Stars in the Universe..
Thats' got to be Illegal?
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


It's at about 70 milky way sized galaxies ATM, so your initial estimate regarding the universe star/$ equiation is a little off scale, but we'll get there in about three years at the current rate.

Compound interest don't you know ... ;)
Skeptically Inclined

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10/17/2011 08:45 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
I still see people fighting in convincing eachother that they are wrong instead of finding things that we all have in common in today's society.

Fact is that today's society has become more individualistic and materialistic than say 30/40 years ago. Community sense has been replaced by fear, mistrust and society of sanctions. "If you don't do this, than that will happen.."

Fact is that there are not half as many jobs available as there were 30 years ago. Technology has taken over a lot of human labor, so there are far more people applying for the same job now than 30/40 yrs ago.

Fact is that wages for the same job have not kept track with the rising cost of living. In fact, today's newcomers for a job that paid well in the past, will most likely get paid far less than newcomers in the same job 30/40 years ago (percentage wise of course.) All under the excuse of companies needing to cut costs in order to survive.

Fact is that a lot of people do not want to do dirty basic jobs, like cleaning, for small wages, so companies hire foreigners. To say that they steal your job is a poor excuse for yourself not wanting to do that job.

Fact is that the younger generation is stimulated to get at least a degree or go to university in order to "be able to build a better life than previous generations." All that leads to is companies hardly being able to fill for instance lower technical positions in production and an overkill of well educated, deep in debt, highly qualified people for way to little higher ranked positions. Result is more unemployment in those fields.

Fact is that companies do not see their people as added value, but as costs. First cuts are often cuts in people, leading to more pressure on the remaining crew, less commitment, higher sick leave rates, more stress related family dramas and a increasing split up of society between working and not working, rich and poor. Also leading to people being less willing to stand up for eachother, because who knows, they may be next in line to get laid off.

Fact is that people are more affraid to look eachother in the eye and make a joke to a complete stranger than 30 yrs ago, affraid that the other might get it wrong and start a fight.

You all have valid points in this discussion, but trying to convince eachother that way will not solve the problems we are facing.

Basic point is that if this society of young and old, companies and employees and people in general do not start working together to face this downswing, in a couple of years, there will be no other society left, but a cold, dark one without empathy, in which only the right of the most powerful counts. That goes for people as well as companies.

We all can name a thousand threats, but those who go for solutions are the ones that stand out. Open your eyes and respect the other's opinion, work together and go from solutions and opportunities instead of the easy path of threats and fear.
 Quoting: InterMezzo


Well said!! headbang clappa
 Quoting: Lady Wolf


I like your post. So many good points, I just had to quote it all!

Funny isn't it? Instead of agreeing that there is something VERY wrong going on right now in this country, and the world, some people would rather nitpick about how much a car "really" costs and how "poor" is poor. The lack of compassion is staggering.

I have an idea, instead of saying "suck it up, life is hard", maybe people should realize that at the end of the day, this is NOT the country it was meant to be. If you don't believe me, look at the constitution (Oh boy, especially the first 10, ya know, the bill of rights?)and see how far we've fallen.

Hell, this gives us the right to petition, but some people want that gone just because they don't like what the petitioners are saying.

While you are at it, take a look at the Declaration of Independence and just see what ideas they wanted for this country. That is what I have come to expect for our country, and that is why I am so disenfranchised by our current situation. Some people are always going to be "more equal" than others. It doesn't mean I have to like it or agree with it.
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2011 08:51 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
I thought there were more like 10^22 stars in the universe. There are still more atoms in the ocean then stars in the universe.
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2011 08:57 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
I like your post. So many good points, I just had to quote it all!

Funny isn't it? Instead of agreeing that there is something VERY wrong going on right now in this country, and the world, some people would rather nitpick about how much a car "really" costs and how "poor" is poor. The lack of compassion is staggering.

I have an idea, instead of saying "suck it up, life is hard", maybe people should realize that at the end of the day, this is NOT the country it was meant to be. If you don't believe me, look at the constitution (Oh boy, especially the first 10, ya know, the bill of rights?)and see how far we've fallen.

Hell, this gives us the right to petition, but some people want that gone just because they don't like what the petitioners are saying.

While you are at it, take a look at the Declaration of Independence and just see what ideas they wanted for this country. That is what I have come to expect for our country, and that is why I am so disenfranchised by our current situation. Some people are always going to be "more equal" than others. It doesn't mean I have to like it or agree with it.


Great! Let's discuss the erosion of rights....I haven't heard that from OWS...but where in those documents does it say you have a right to a job? a college education? a cell phone?


The equality laid out in the original documents were not concerned with commerce....they laid out basic human rights that everyone is born with. You are not born with a house, and therefore it is not a right. Understand?
Skeptically Inclined

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10/17/2011 09:42 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
I like your post. So many good points, I just had to quote it all!

Funny isn't it? Instead of agreeing that there is something VERY wrong going on right now in this country, and the world, some people would rather nitpick about how much a car "really" costs and how "poor" is poor. The lack of compassion is staggering.

I have an idea, instead of saying "suck it up, life is hard", maybe people should realize that at the end of the day, this is NOT the country it was meant to be. If you don't believe me, look at the constitution (Oh boy, especially the first 10, ya know, the bill of rights?)and see how far we've fallen.

Hell, this gives us the right to petition, but some people want that gone just because they don't like what the petitioners are saying.

While you are at it, take a look at the Declaration of Independence and just see what ideas they wanted for this country. That is what I have come to expect for our country, and that is why I am so disenfranchised by our current situation. Some people are always going to be "more equal" than others. It doesn't mean I have to like it or agree with it.


Great! Let's discuss the erosion of rights....I haven't heard that from OWS...but where in those documents does it say you have a right to a job? a college education? a cell phone?


The equality laid out in the original documents were not concerned with commerce....they laid out basic human rights that everyone is born with. You are not born with a house, and therefore it is not a right. Understand?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1734272


Like I said, OWS is a start. There will be more protests. Hopefully, they will do a better job of addressing these issues. You are correct, BUT, we have the right to PURSUE these things. In the current climate, it is becoming more and more difficult, if not impossible to properly pursue without borrowing and relying on the government. The government, banks, and corporations have made EVERYTHING about commerce. I mean, I guess you can finally earn one in cash once you are 80 (see OP's first post), but I guess I've come to expect more from our country than that. People have been saying for years that they want a life better than what their parents have, and the opportunity was there to pursue. Hell, now I just WANT a life for my kid that is even close to what I had.

As I said before, I don't want in excess. All I ask is that in a country as great as America, that I get an honest wage for an honest days work. Is that really too much to ask?
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2011 09:53 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
I like your post. So many good points, I just had to quote it all!

Funny isn't it? Instead of agreeing that there is something VERY wrong going on right now in this country, and the world, some people would rather nitpick about how much a car "really" costs and how "poor" is poor. The lack of compassion is staggering.

I have an idea, instead of saying "suck it up, life is hard", maybe people should realize that at the end of the day, this is NOT the country it was meant to be. If you don't believe me, look at the constitution (Oh boy, especially the first 10, ya know, the bill of rights?)and see how far we've fallen.

Hell, this gives us the right to petition, but some people want that gone just because they don't like what the petitioners are saying.

While you are at it, take a look at the Declaration of Independence and just see what ideas they wanted for this country. That is what I have come to expect for our country, and that is why I am so disenfranchised by our current situation. Some people are always going to be "more equal" than others. It doesn't mean I have to like it or agree with it.


Great! Let's discuss the erosion of rights....I haven't heard that from OWS...but where in those documents does it say you have a right to a job? a college education? a cell phone?


The equality laid out in the original documents were not concerned with commerce....they laid out basic human rights that everyone is born with. You are not born with a house, and therefore it is not a right. Understand?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1734272


Like I said, OWS is a start. There will be more protests. Hopefully, they will do a better job of addressing these issues. You are correct, BUT, we have the right to PURSUE these things. In the current climate, it is becoming more and more difficult, if not impossible to properly pursue without borrowing and relying on the government. The government, banks, and corporations have made EVERYTHING about commerce. I mean, I guess you can finally earn one in cash once you are 80 (see OP's first post), but I guess I've come to expect more from our country than that. People have been saying for years that they want a life better than what their parents have, and the opportunity was there to pursue. Hell, now I just WANT a life for my kid that is even close to what I had.

As I said before, I don't want in excess. All I ask is that in a country as great as America, that I get an honest wage for an honest days work. Is that really too much to ask?
 Quoting: Skeptically Inclined


How can you have a protest without knowing the issues? I suppose expecting common sense is asking too much <sigh>.

I don't agree that you have to borrow or get money from govt in order to make it in this climate....I think you should think smaller...Rome was not built in a day.

As far as your honest wage: there are labor laws. Most employers break them. Know your rights....then complain, and I'll listen with great intent and empathy.

But having nothing more to say than "It's not fair!" is just not enough for me....life ain't fair....most of us already know this.
Skeptically Inclined

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10/17/2011 10:15 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
I like your post. So many good points, I just had to quote it all!

Funny isn't it? Instead of agreeing that there is something VERY wrong going on right now in this country, and the world, some people would rather nitpick about how much a car "really" costs and how "poor" is poor. The lack of compassion is staggering.

I have an idea, instead of saying "suck it up, life is hard", maybe people should realize that at the end of the day, this is NOT the country it was meant to be. If you don't believe me, look at the constitution (Oh boy, especially the first 10, ya know, the bill of rights?)and see how far we've fallen.

Hell, this gives us the right to petition, but some people want that gone just because they don't like what the petitioners are saying.

While you are at it, take a look at the Declaration of Independence and just see what ideas they wanted for this country. That is what I have come to expect for our country, and that is why I am so disenfranchised by our current situation. Some people are always going to be "more equal" than others. It doesn't mean I have to like it or agree with it.


Great! Let's discuss the erosion of rights....I haven't heard that from OWS...but where in those documents does it say you have a right to a job? a college education? a cell phone?


The equality laid out in the original documents were not concerned with commerce....they laid out basic human rights that everyone is born with. You are not born with a house, and therefore it is not a right. Understand?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1734272


Like I said, OWS is a start. There will be more protests. Hopefully, they will do a better job of addressing these issues. You are correct, BUT, we have the right to PURSUE these things. In the current climate, it is becoming more and more difficult, if not impossible to properly pursue without borrowing and relying on the government. The government, banks, and corporations have made EVERYTHING about commerce. I mean, I guess you can finally earn one in cash once you are 80 (see OP's first post), but I guess I've come to expect more from our country than that. People have been saying for years that they want a life better than what their parents have, and the opportunity was there to pursue. Hell, now I just WANT a life for my kid that is even close to what I had.

As I said before, I don't want in excess. All I ask is that in a country as great as America, that I get an honest wage for an honest days work. Is that really too much to ask?
 Quoting: Skeptically Inclined


How can you have a protest without knowing the issues? I suppose expecting common sense is asking too much <sigh>.

I don't agree that you have to borrow or get money from govt in order to make it in this climate....I think you should think smaller...Rome was not built in a day.

As far as your honest wage: there are labor laws. Most employers break them. Know your rights....then complain, and I'll listen with great intent and empathy.

But having nothing more to say than "It's not fair!" is just not enough for me....life ain't fair....most of us already know this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1734272


You aren't listening. THIS IS NOT ONLY ABOUT THE OWS. Good lord some people are so damn focused on shitting their pants over OWS they can't see the forest for the trees. For the hard of hearing, or for those too busy "sighing" to open up their eyes and read. Did you read the first post? That is the scenario that the majority of people starting out is faced with this very moment.

I have been out of high school for 10 years and I tell you that 9 out of the 12 people that I really hung around with and still keep in regular contact with are STILL IN SCHOOL in one way or another. Either they went, graduated, can't find anything and decided to go back for another field, they graduated and couldn't find anything so they went back just so they could stave off their loans, or the have been going part time so they can bust their ass and pay as they make money at their minimum wage college job. At that rate, these guys will be in entry level positions till they are 30 and won't have the opportunity for a career until they are in their mid 30's early 40's. And this is an ok thing for everyone? Why is this acceptable IN AMERICA? Life isn't fair, not one of us on here (again, look away from OWS just a moment) had said it was, or should be.

BUT WHY IS THIS ACCEPTABLE?

Why is it OK for the government, the banks, and corporations to do this? Because it isn't affecting you, so, who gives a fuck? It's people like you, and their lack of empathy who have gotten us into this mess. You used the system in place before you were even born and destroyed it. Instead of leaving the world and this country a better place, you crapped all over it through greed, apathy, and complacency. And now, when it comes time that we should do something, you sit on your high horse and look down on everyone that wasn't as lucky as you to be born into the same world you were born into.

Rome wasn't built in a day, but should it really take until 80 to get a house so as to not be a debt slave. Are you really saying that is acceptable?

Oh, and labor laws were made to be broken, right? Bravo. It doesn't effect you, so why care right? Let those peasants negotiate their tithe. Not your problem, right? And hell, people are complaining and DO know their rights. But when we do complain, it is called "whining" by you and you just come up with "life's not fair". Yeah, you sure are listening with great empathy.
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2011 10:25 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
Excuse me Skeptic....but I didn't do any of this to you...I figured out a long time ago I wasn't going to be able to buy a house, it's just not in the cards for me, how is that someone else's fault?


I'm not bitter about not being able to own property....I'm actually glad i don't pay the taxes....and I've got a great land-lord....it's a relationship we built over time when he realized I was not destroying his property like his other tenants.
Anonymous Coward
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10/17/2011 10:33 AM
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Re: Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!
Excuse me Skeptic....but I didn't do any of this to you...I figured out a long time ago I wasn't going to be able to buy a house, it's just not in the cards for me, how is that someone else's fault?


I'm not bitter about not being able to own property....I'm actually glad i don't pay the taxes....and I've got a great land-lord....it's a relationship we built over time when he realized I was not destroying his property like his other tenants.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1734272


I live my life very simply.

I don't have a cell phone. The lap top is new and cost more than my first car....I don't feel sorry for people with the latest technology but can't afford to eat....and you can't make me.

I live within my means, and expect everyone else to do the same, including the government.

I have NEVER had a credit card and have always lived pretty good on what you consider a poverty level for nearly 50 years...and I have worked since I was 13.

I pointed out the labor laws because most people give up their rights, allowing their employers to steal from them, in order to have a job. If people would call the labor board this would end, but most won't bite the hand that feeds them or just plain don't know what their rights are.
It creates collective misery...and the only way out is to prosecute the ones breaking the law...but that requires effort.





GLP