Why don't you do the math before you tell these kids to not borrow money-- or get a job!

All that wealth you have, you have from either luck or inheritance. Period. I don't care what you think you or anyone you know may have done to feel like you can push other people away and make them work for you, which is all money really is. If you didn't put a house together with your own hands, if you didn't water the tree that you fashioned the boards from, if you didn't plant the seed that grew into that tree, then who are you to say you deserve anything? Let me tell you a story:

One day, a test came, and a kid with a very involved family came with 3 pushup pencils, and another kid was an orphan, and had nothing to write with. This pencil-less kid told the teacher, but the teacher was harsh and said he'd fail with nothing to grade. He asked the person with the 3 pushup pencils if he could have one, and the person told him no.

The kid failed his test, and failed his class, and failed his grade. This kid would end up with a poor reputation, poor outlook, and poor grades. I can almost smell the small kids now, in my mind, that were like this in my past. I remember these little kids who looked forward to their terrible school lunches. Maybe you were a preppy pos, and have no fucking clue what this is like.

Now this kid grew up, and had his own children. And he made a decent wage. When his child goes to school, will he be an involved parent. Hopefully.

But, here's the important part:

What would he tell his child to do if another child needs a pencil?

the Toyota Yaris is a damn fine vehicle (everyone has them here)

they cost $20k here but only $13k in the US--brand new

plus, cheap as chips on gas

OP said $18k will get you a piece of shit?

you need to think outside the box a bit

DOLLAR GENERAL PAY FULL TIME EMPLOYMENT : (REAL LIFE SCENARIO)

$110.18 AFTER TAXES x 4 WKS = $440.72

HEALTH INSURANCE : NO
SEIZURE MEDICATION : $39.99 PER MONTH
RENT : $450.00
UTILITIES : $126.57
CAR PAYMENT : $375.99 OF $18,900.14
CAR INSURANCE : $89.67
FUEL TO GO TO DOLLAR GENERAL : $110.00 EVERY 2 WKS x 2 = $220.00 (V6 22 MI PER 1 GAL. @ $3.49 PER GALLON IN PITT COUNTY AREA)
VEHICLE MAINT.: $200.00 EVERY 3 MONTHS (TIRES, OIL + BRAKES)
GROCERIES : (SAVE A LOT) $122.98 PER MONTH 1 PERSON
CELL PHONE : NO
SAT TV : NO
INTERNET : NEIGHBORS (FREE)
CLOTHES : UNIFORM (HAD TO BUY MYSELF), 3 PAIR OF UNDERWEAR, 3 PAIR OF SOCKS, 1 PAIR OF JEANS, 2 PAIR OF SHORTS, 1 PAIR OF SHOES 2 YRS OLD. (SHOES ARE WASHED EVERY 6 MONTHS)
WELFARE : DO NOT QUALIFY (WAS TOLD I MAKE TOO MUCH MONEY)
MEDICAID : DO NOT QUALIFY (NO KIDS, I AM NOT DEAF DUMB OR BLIND / AGAIN, WAS TOLD I MAKE TOO MUCH MONEY)
STUDENT PELL GRANT MONEY : +699.87 PER 12 WKS

RUNNING TOTAL : $ - 484.61 EVERY MONTH EVEN IF I GOT PELL GRANT MONEY BACK EVERY MONTH.

FEEL BETTER YET ABOUT YOUR LIFE?

Ya know, come to think of it, I really am poor. This country is a joke and no body can survive like this. Thank god I have an adopted mother and father who love me enough to help me out with bills from month to month. I look forward to the day I die. You wanted "CHANGE?" YOU GOT IT! OH WAIT, THERES NO CHANGE LEFT OVER FOR WORKING CLASS LOWER CLASS INDIVIDUALS! If I was smart I would move out of America " THE GREATEST LAND IN THE WORLD".

I still see people fighting in convincing eachother that they are wrong instead of finding things that we all have in common in today's society.

Fact is that today's society has become more individualistic and materialistic than say 30/40 years ago. Community sense has been replaced by fear, mistrust and society of sanctions. "If you don't do this, than that will happen.."

Fact is that there are not half as many jobs available as there were 30 years ago. Technology has taken over a lot of human labor, so there are far more people applying for the same job now than 30/40 yrs ago.

Fact is that wages for the same job have not kept track with the rising cost of living. In fact, today's newcomers for a job that paid well in the past, will most likely get paid far less than newcomers in the same job 30/40 years ago (percentage wise of course.) All under the excuse of companies needing to cut costs in order to survive.

Fact is that a lot of people do not want to do dirty basic jobs, like cleaning, for small wages, so companies hire foreigners. To say that they steal your job is a poor excuse for yourself not wanting to do that job.

Fact is that the younger generation is stimulated to get at least a degree or go to university in order to "be able to build a better life than previous generations." All that leads to is companies hardly being able to fill for instance lower technical positions in production and an overkill of well educated, deep in debt, highly qualified people for way to little higher ranked positions. Result is more unemployment in those fields.

Fact is that companies do not see their people as added value, but as costs. First cuts are often cuts in people, leading to more pressure on the remaining crew, less commitment, higher sick leave rates, more stress related family dramas and a increasing split up of society between working and not working, rich and poor. Also leading to people being less willing to stand up for eachother, because who knows, they may be next in line to get laid off.

Fact is that people are more affraid to look eachother in the eye and make a joke to a complete stranger than 30 yrs ago, affraid that the other might get it wrong and start a fight.

You all have valid points in this discussion, but trying to convince eachother that way will not solve the problems we are facing.

Basic point is that if this society of young and old, companies and employees and people in general do not start working together to face this downswing, in a couple of years, there will be no other society left, but a cold, dark one without empathy, in which only the right of the most powerful counts. That goes for people as well as companies.

We all can name a thousand threats, but those who go for solutions are the ones that stand out. Open your eyes and respect the other's opinion, work together and go from solutions and opportunities instead of the easy path of threats and fear.

I laugh because the only thing you people can attack on the first post in that fact that you can get a car cheaper than $18,000.


Ok people you win. Now the math says you might have shit paid off and out of debt when you are 79 instead of 80 something.

I already explain what I mean't by Piece of shit. Cars are not made to last anymore. They make them fail and have problems on purpose so you have to get a new one or buy parts. They make them so you can't work on them period!!!
I doubt any car made today will last 30 years. So that means you must budget this in and if you kept a car 15 years, your value of that car is almost nothing.


The point of the thread was to show that these kids and most folks don't have a chance.

If you made your money, good for you, but if you had to try now you would be screwed. Be thankful and quit talking shit.

You all are posting negative shit like
"Get a Job"
"Live in Your means" etc

To "live in your means" is an old expression. It would mean never going into debt and only buying what you can afford. I already showed you this was almost impossible. You borrow you are owned. You don't borrow you are also a slave and owned.


If you don't agree then prove how someone gets ahead.
Show why these kids are bums.
Give an example in detail on how to get around the math and become great like you. How to take on NO DEBT, NEVER HAVE PROBLEMS IN LIFE, ALWAYS KEEP A JOB, ETC.

And I am not talking about the B.S. walked in snow uphill to school shit.

AMEN to the OP! And your figures were very much on the lowside. Starting salaries in my neck of the woods are 28k for a decent job, but all the expenses are much higher. I really don't know understand how anyone can criticize this movement when things are so dire.

Here is my situation--I have a 4 year degree in education, but due to budget cuts the school system in my area is hiring a very minimal amount of new teachers. I have been looking for a job in another field (mostly clerical--$12/hour work) and have probably applied for over 50 positions and so far heard nothing.

The only reason that I'm even looking for a job is because food prices have gone up so much that we can't afford to live on one income any longer (I've been a stay at home mom since my kids were born). I guess I picked a terrible time to get back into the workforce.

Anyway, just wanted to say kudos to the OP for bringing awareness to these issues!

Wow, nice rebuttal, dumbass. Thanks, I'll just read your book on how to usurp people, until I become a usurper and then I'll just recommend the book to the people I learned how to take advantage of my whole life! Wow it's an evolution of the highest moral demand! God damn, I can't wait to see the state of the world my grandkids will inherit!

Oh my god, you realize you're fucking evil right? Has no body here even heard of compassion for the poor? You realize there's no free will right? Energy can neither be created nor destroyed? That little law of phsyics? Oh you lack intelligence I forgot. People are exactly how they have been conditioned to absolutely no fault their own. It's actually fucking physics. So poor makes poor and rich makes rich. And WOW. That's exactly how this is all playing out! Maybe it's the fucking systemic dichotomy that's the problem. Home of the free and equal? Yeah, I'm not there, but we will fucking come back, and you will fucking wallow.

I still see people fighting in convincing eachother that they are wrong instead of finding things that we all have in common in today's society.

Fact is that today's society has become more individualistic and materialistic than say 30/40 years ago. Community sense has been replaced by fear, mistrust and society of sanctions. "If you don't do this, than that will happen.."

Fact is that there are not half as many jobs available as there were 30 years ago. Technology has taken over a lot of human labor, so there are far more people applying for the same job now than 30/40 yrs ago.

Fact is that wages for the same job have not kept track with the rising cost of living. In fact, today's newcomers for a job that paid well in the past, will most likely get paid far less than newcomers in the same job 30/40 years ago (percentage wise of course.) All under the excuse of companies needing to cut costs in order to survive.

Fact is that a lot of people do not want to do dirty basic jobs, like cleaning, for small wages, so companies hire foreigners. To say that they steal your job is a poor excuse for yourself not wanting to do that job.

Fact is that the younger generation is stimulated to get at least a degree or go to university in order to "be able to build a better life than previous generations." All that leads to is companies hardly being able to fill for instance lower technical positions in production and an overkill of well educated, deep in debt, highly qualified people for way to little higher ranked positions. Result is more unemployment in those fields.

Fact is that companies do not see their people as added value, but as costs. First cuts are often cuts in people, leading to more pressure on the remaining crew, less commitment, higher sick leave rates, more stress related family dramas and a increasing split up of society between working and not working, rich and poor. Also leading to people being less willing to stand up for eachother, because who knows, they may be next in line to get laid off.

Fact is that people are more affraid to look eachother in the eye and make a joke to a complete stranger than 30 yrs ago, affraid that the other might get it wrong and start a fight.

You all have valid points in this discussion, but trying to convince eachother that way will not solve the problems we are facing.

Basic point is that if this society of young and old, companies and employees and people in general do not start working together to face this downswing, in a couple of years, there will be no other society left, but a cold, dark one without empathy, in which only the right of the most powerful counts. That goes for people as well as companies.

We all can name a thousand threats, but those who go for solutions are the ones that stand out. Open your eyes and respect the other's opinion, work together and go from solutions and opportunities instead of the easy path of threats and fear.

No luck and no inheritence, hard work my friend. I grew up very poor. I lived with my grandmother and we had no car. She made $78/month in Social Security and that was how we lived. We got commodities from the government to eat. We had no car and walked several miles when we needed to go to town. We could never buy more at a grocery store than we could carry home and I couldn't carry much - she would have to stop and wait so I could rest because my small legs couldn't keep up. She said, "Just keep putting one foot in front of the other" when I could compain that I was too tired so don't you dare think I haven't been there.

I laugh because the only thing you people can attack on the first post in that fact that you can get a car cheaper than $18,000.


Ok people you win. Now the math says you might have shit paid off and out of debt when you are 79 instead of 80 something.

I already explain what I mean't by Piece of shit. Cars are not made to last anymore. They make them fail and have problems on purpose so you have to get a new one or buy parts. They make them so you can't work on them period!!!
I doubt any car made today will last 30 years. So that means you must budget this in and if you kept a car 15 years, your value of that car is almost nothing.


The point of the thread was to show that these kids and most folks don't have a chance.

If you made your money, good for you, but if you had to try now you would be screwed. Be thankful and quit talking shit.

You all are posting negative shit like
"Get a Job"
"Live in Your means" etc

To "live in your means" is an old expression. It would mean never going into debt and only buying what you can afford. I already showed you this was almost impossible. You borrow you are owned. You don't borrow you are also a slave and owned.


If you don't agree then prove how someone gets ahead.
Show why these kids are bums.
Give an example in detail on how to get around the math and become great like you. How to take on NO DEBT, NEVER HAVE PROBLEMS IN LIFE, ALWAYS KEEP A JOB, ETC.

And I am not talking about the B.S. walked in snow uphill to school shit.

My parents both dropped out of school when they were 17 and they both immediately got jobs with the government (with only a Grade 11 education). After working about 40 years, they both retired at the top of their respective fields and now draw around $300 thousand in iron-clad government pensions (plus perks). They are not particularly bright or ambitious (sheeple mentality); this kind of career track was the norm for government workers who hung in there, year after year.


I mention this brief history because that was then and this is now. If you dropped out of high school today, there would be no government job with all the perks waiting for you. In particular, the employment field has been altered drastically over the past 20 years, and not for the better. In some cases, wages have risen only a few dollars, remained stagnant, or even declined. After graduating university in the late 1980s, I started doing temp work at $12 to $16 per hour. The wages for that same job, more than 20 years later, are today around $10. In the late 1980s, a bachelor apartment was $250 to $300 a month. That same apartment is now around $1,200. We won't go into how food and every other cost has likewise exponentially risen.


Without credit or loans, people starting out today cannot survive unless they pool their resources, live four or five to a bachelor apartment, and work 80 hours a week. The "good" jobs are few and far between. Dropping out of high school and nabbing a cushy government job for life is simply no longer possible.


I feel sorry for the kids. I'm not surprised that most of them drink or smoke themselves into a stupor every night. We have created an unsustainable world, right across the board. There was a piece in my local news paper this morning about how retired professors at a local university earn their full salary as a pension until they die. The university is having problems paying the pensions (there's a shortfall of $270 million this year), which will then be paid by taxpayers. This is only one example.


My parents' generation have lived unrealistic, unsustainable lives and set unrealistic, unsustainable goals. In doing so, they've set themselves up nicely in a system that is ponzi by nature, but the scheme is now unraveling. This is a cold hard fact. Don't blame the kids. That they're only 'occupying', is a blessing. If I were 30 years younger, I'd be getting out the pitchfork.

Fact is I have no intention of cooperating with left-tards. We're where we are BECAUSE of leftist ideology. The left needs to be defeated, not cooperated with.

Oh really? Well I was thinking about how I don't have enough money for food, and how I should just plant some crop. Oh, hey, everyone owns all the land around me, fuck, hey I guess I'm just gonna have to knock down your house and plant a fucking garden OR STARVE TO DEATH RETARD. We live in a system dumbass, a democratic system, and if people aren't happy, what do you think we're gonna do? Take it up our fucking asses? By god, we will fucking change shit, no matter how hard your fucking daddy worked. I'm working really fucking hard, right now, and your daddy is in my fucking way.

You mean the decadent material fuel hungry american lifestyle is unsustainable. It took math to figure that out..

Surely you kid..

It puts a tear to my eye that some people cannot make enough to sustain the Starbucks and soda habits..

It's so horrible here.. I'm gonna go hold a sign and put up a tent, then when i'm hungry I'll put up a post on my occupy page and demand pizza from others...

I will oppose corporate power with one hand, and drink starbucks with the other.

I will complain about oil wars with my mouth, while pumping petroleum into my SUV.

Life is hard for me, and I need more extras to get through my day... I hate the rich filthy pig 1%, but I'll be damned if i Send a dime to a third world country with starving people who actually know what poverty and want are...

Dont go to college

get a job. Get a cheap apartment. with roommates if need be. save up a thousand dollars and get a used car.

there. No debt

you will always have problems in life. Dont fool yourself

No one has ever been guarenteed that their job will last. Do the best you can and prove that you are a valuable asset. They'll keep you as long as they can and put a good word out for you at future jobs

You allow yourself to be a slave to materialism. The things you own end up owning you. Break that mentality. You think freedom is something that can be given or taken away. It's not. Freedom is about how you interact with what you have. If you have to have more you will always be a slave

Well said, Texasgirl. You're exactly right.

That's bullshit and you know it. What Obama bailed out the banks and car industry for, he coulda gave each citizen 16k in cash. Obama is left, my ass. Obama is a figurehead. Hello? I bet you believe the official story of 9/11 too huh? If 9/11 is a conspiracy, then stop playing the left right bullshit card. wtf is wrong with you dumbasses

No one has ever been guarenteed that their job will last. Do the best you can and prove that you are a valuable asset. They'll keep you as long as they can and put a good word out for you at future jobs

If you look at the numbers nothing about america is sustainable, I mean everyone thinks they need their own personal car, like its their freaking birthright. The material costs on that alone are disgusting.

And that 16K would have already been blown and they would already be crying for 100k now.

You can have a good life in America on what most college graduates now think is not enough for them to even consider.

It's sickening.

What do you think an apartment is retard? That is a contractual act of money lending. Having a rent payment fall through will send you spiralling into debt. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE NOT TO BORROW FUCKTARDS

Exactly right. This guy gets it.

This is why I just love these get a job people. And these you should pay cash for a house and car people.

Let say a kid gets out of college with a degree and finds a job or jobs. Right now 40,000 a year would be huge for most to find and probably very unlikely for a graduate, but we will use this number.

So after taxes, ss, state tax if you have one, medical, dental, life, medicare etc

Your bring home is about 1300-1200 every 2 weeks
This is 2600-2400 a month.

Ok let’s pay some bills.

Monthly

Rent 750-Very modest guess. All know some will lower,higher
Car 200- very low cheap car.
Car insurance 100 for decent
150 electricity-- very low for most
50 for gas if you have it.
100 for vehicle gas.

No cable or internet cause we don't want to live to great.
No cell phones because we can't afford this luxury.


Groceries
400 a month.

This is not eating out at all or getting anything from quicky mart. This is very modest considering prices now.


So we are at 1750. From 2600 using the high number this leaves us about 850, but wait. We went to college.

So since we didn't come from rich parents we have to pay for that. Let's say we go to a small cheap school and work part time to pay the room and board.

2000 a semester. Very low price compared to 90%

4 years of school. By the way it is almost impossible to get a 4 year degree anymore, especially while working.

So 4000 a year x 4 years is 16000.


16000 is about a 400 payment a month on student loans.


Now we are up to 2150 - 2600 leaves us about 450 extra.

We are not including any movies, out to eat, up keep on car, pops-candy, lawn care for rent house, medical bills for co-pay, etc.


Hell we will round it up to a big $500 a month extra. Now let’s start saving so we can pay cash and not borrow.

First we need a house and car.

Modest house 150,000. NO LAND besides lot and this probably doesn't exist in price in most places.

So $500 a month savings = $6000 a year.

So it will only take 25 years to save cash for a house at this price.
But wait--in 25 years that house will cost twice that because of inflation.
So 50 years.


Ok let’s get a car.
3 years = 18000 which will buy a piece of shit. These cars normally last 5 years maybe a little more, and they are worth shit nothing when you try to sell them back.

So we get a trade in for $6000 after seven years with the first car we bought. We have to buy a car every 7 years at 18,000.

We will need around 4 cars for the next 28 years, first one being bought for full price. 18000 + 12000 + 12000 + 12000

Hell this is only $54,000. That is another 9 years of saving on top of the 50 for the house. Plus we only figured the cars for 28 years not counting inflation.

So with the math if we started when we are 22 we might have enough cash for a house and keep our cars paid for in cash by the time we are 80 or more.

We won't be able to retire or afford anything else, but by God WE WON’T BE BUMS.


So all you people saying that you pay cash for all your shit and are not in debt are either full of complete shit or came into money somewhere. I suspect most of you got your cash from your momma and you are the true bums. Some of you might have worked your way up the ladder, but at what cost. Some might have built a successful business and are very lucky because if you tried that shit now you would be screwed.

Point being in this long ass post.

Quit blaming these kids. Go get a job is not going to fix shit and you know it. Do the math. Slavery is the end game and they got it.