'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic | |
BRIEF User ID: 79662918 United States 07/13/2021 09:17 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 78107151 Australia 07/13/2021 09:18 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78107151 Sorry, I assumed you believe in the god of the Bible. You don't? According to the bible, this god made a covenant with Abraham which prescribed circumcision. The god of the Bible clearly has likes and dislikes. I'm not sure why an omnipotent, all knowing god would intentionally create things it doesn't like though. I have read the Kings James Bible and I believe it has a great deal of wisdom for all of humanity, but was written for a people who do not think or act like us...We have the advantage of experience, while they did not, so books were written for them...We do not need a new Bible, but one needs to keep in mind it was not written directly for modern day man to be taken literally in all circumstances... Do you believe and accept every word of any other book have read in your life? I don't. I believe what is written in biographies and scientific books, but the Bible is neither... So which god do you believe in? Does it have intelligence? How do you know it exists? I believe in a creator that is all knowing, good, and eternal... And it created the universe? Which -if the god is all knowing- would mean it willingly created suffering and evil too. How do you it exists? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 78107151 Australia 07/13/2021 09:18 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
BRIEF User ID: 79662918 United States 07/13/2021 09:20 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic ... Quoting: BRIEF I have read the Kings James Bible and I believe it has a great deal of wisdom for all of humanity, but was written for a people who do not think or act like us...We have the advantage of experience, while they did not, so books were written for them...We do not need a new Bible, but one needs to keep in mind it was not written directly for modern day man to be taken literally in all circumstances... Do you believe and accept every word of any other book have read in your life? I don't. I believe what is written in biographies and scientific books, but the Bible is neither... So which god do you believe in? Does it have intelligence? How do you know it exists? I believe in a creator that is all knowing, good, and eternal... And it created the universe? Which -if the god is all knowing- would mean it willingly created suffering and evil too. How do you it exists? Free will dictates all possibilities exist...In the framework of time itself, suffering is very temporary, and not the fault of God but rather, man... I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked. |
BRIEF User ID: 79662918 United States 07/13/2021 09:20 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
SafeandSound User ID: 79999835 United States 07/13/2021 09:21 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic Carl Jung, a firm believer on the opposite of Dawkins has said the same. He can't prove he exists. Both existing or not existing could have equally true arguments. That's the nature of nature. Quoting: SafeandSound Jung concluded if both are possible it's better to believe the positive option, is it not? We cannot prove gravity, only the effects...Just because we lack information does not mean a thing cannot exist... Jung believes in god but sees how nature makes both arguments equally possible. |
BRIEF User ID: 79662918 United States 07/13/2021 09:22 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic I know God exists just as I know gravity exists, but I cannot show you a sample nor a picture, but they are reality nonetheless... I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 78107151 Australia 07/13/2021 09:22 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic Carl Jung, a firm believer on the opposite of Dawkins has said the same. He can't prove he exists. Both existing or not existing could have equally true arguments. That's the nature of nature. Quoting: SafeandSound Jung concluded if both are possible it's better to believe the positive option, is it not? We cannot prove gravity, only the effects...Just because we lack information does not mean a thing cannot exist... Correct. This is why the burden of proof is on the positive assertion. An idea is not justified by the lack of a reason to think something can not exist. An idea is justified by reasons to think it does exist. There are an infinite amount of theoretical things that we can't disprove. |
dogman17 User ID: 17916507 United States 07/13/2021 09:23 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic Of course Dawkins can't be sure God Does Not Exist. However, that is much different than saying there is a God. It is much more likely that God was just made up by humans who were afraid of the known, afraid of the unknown, and afraid of death. Atheists simply don't have to make anything up. Atheists don't have to believe in the supernatural. Just don't make anything up. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 78107151 Australia 07/13/2021 09:25 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic I know God exists just as I know gravity exists, but I cannot show you a sample nor a picture, but they are reality nonetheless... Quoting: BRIEF You believe in gravity because we can demonstrate it. If your god was as easy to demonstrate as gravity, everyone would believe in it. ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78107151 So which god do you believe in? Does it have intelligence? How do you know it exists? I believe in a creator that is all knowing, good, and eternal... And it created the universe? Which -if the god is all knowing- would mean it willingly created suffering and evil too. How do you it exists? Free will dictates all possibilities exist...In the framework of time itself, suffering is very temporary, and not the fault of God but rather, man... The god you described requires that he knew all the suffering that would ever happen, before the act of creation, had the choice to not cause it, but chose to cause it regardless. |
BRIEF User ID: 79662918 United States 07/13/2021 09:26 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic Carl Jung, a firm believer on the opposite of Dawkins has said the same. He can't prove he exists. Both existing or not existing could have equally true arguments. That's the nature of nature. Quoting: SafeandSound Jung concluded if both are possible it's better to believe the positive option, is it not? We cannot prove gravity, only the effects...Just because we lack information does not mean a thing cannot exist... Correct. This is why the burden of proof is on the positive assertion. An idea is not justified by the lack of a reason to think something can not exist. An idea is justified by reasons to think it does exist. There are an infinite amount of theoretical things that we can't disprove. I am living proof of a creator and if you do not believe what your senses tell you, I cannot help you...We call it faith because we cannot measure it... How do you prove anything exists? By measuring it...We had to create machines to measure particles, and someday perhaps we will build a machine to speak to God...Moses had a "staff" which was an interface to directly communicate with God... I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 78107151 Australia 07/13/2021 09:26 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 78107151 Australia 07/13/2021 09:29 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic Carl Jung, a firm believer on the opposite of Dawkins has said the same. He can't prove he exists. Both existing or not existing could have equally true arguments. That's the nature of nature. Quoting: SafeandSound Jung concluded if both are possible it's better to believe the positive option, is it not? We cannot prove gravity, only the effects...Just because we lack information does not mean a thing cannot exist... Correct. This is why the burden of proof is on the positive assertion. An idea is not justified by the lack of a reason to think something can not exist. An idea is justified by reasons to think it does exist. There are an infinite amount of theoretical things that we can't disprove. I am living proof of a creator and if you do not believe what your senses tell you, I cannot help you...We call it faith because we cannot measure it... How do you prove anything exists? By measuring it...We had to create machines to measure particles, and someday perhaps we will build a machine to speak to God...Moses had a "staff" which was an interface to directly communicate with God... Perhaps one day we'll invent the technology to see that our universe is on the back of a turtle. Hypothetical futures are not a reason to believe something. |
BRIEF User ID: 79662918 United States 07/13/2021 09:29 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic "You believe in gravity because we can demonstrate it. If your god was as easy to demonstrate as gravity, everyone would believe in it." AC The existence of reality is your proof... I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked. |
BRIEF User ID: 79662918 United States 07/13/2021 09:29 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic Logic? If that's true, you should be able to provide a syllogism or logical argument that leads to your conclusion. Can I have it? Yes, read this thread... I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked. |
BRIEF User ID: 79662918 United States 07/13/2021 09:32 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic ... Quoting: BRIEF We cannot prove gravity, only the effects...Just because we lack information does not mean a thing cannot exist... Correct. This is why the burden of proof is on the positive assertion. An idea is not justified by the lack of a reason to think something can not exist. An idea is justified by reasons to think it does exist. There are an infinite amount of theoretical things that we can't disprove. I am living proof of a creator and if you do not believe what your senses tell you, I cannot help you...We call it faith because we cannot measure it... How do you prove anything exists? By measuring it...We had to create machines to measure particles, and someday perhaps we will build a machine to speak to God...Moses had a "staff" which was an interface to directly communicate with God... Perhaps one day we'll invent the technology to see that our universe is on the back of a turtle. Hypothetical futures are not a reason to believe something. That would conflict with everything we know about the universe... I have read that book also, btw "The wit and wisdom of discworld" by: Terry Pratchett I enjoy philosophy as well... I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 78107151 Australia 07/13/2021 09:35 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic Logic? If that's true, you should be able to provide a syllogism or logical argument that leads to your conclusion. Can I have it? Yes, read this thread... I've read it. I never saw you provide a list of premises that logically lead to your conclusion. "You believe in gravity because we can demonstrate it. If your god was as easy to demonstrate as gravity, everyone would believe in it." AC Quoting: BRIEF The existence of reality is your proof... How does this reality prove the existence of an all knowing, good, eternal being that intentionally brought everything into existence? Why not a partially knowing, slightly evil one? Why not many beings? Or something that's not a being at all? How have you ruled out these possibilities, in order to prove your belief? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 78107151 Australia 07/13/2021 09:37 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78107151 Correct. This is why the burden of proof is on the positive assertion. An idea is not justified by the lack of a reason to think something can not exist. An idea is justified by reasons to think it does exist. There are an infinite amount of theoretical things that we can't disprove. I am living proof of a creator and if you do not believe what your senses tell you, I cannot help you...We call it faith because we cannot measure it... How do you prove anything exists? By measuring it...We had to create machines to measure particles, and someday perhaps we will build a machine to speak to God...Moses had a "staff" which was an interface to directly communicate with God... Perhaps one day we'll invent the technology to see that our universe is on the back of a turtle. Hypothetical futures are not a reason to believe something. That would conflict with everything we know about the universe... I have read that book also, btw "The wit and wisdom of discworld" by: Terry Pratchett I enjoy philosophy as well... There's no conflict if the turtle is outside the universe. The point is, maybe one day we'll find out a lot of things. You're assuming what we find will validate your beliefs. |
BRIEF User ID: 79662918 United States 07/13/2021 09:42 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic Logic? If that's true, you should be able to provide a syllogism or logical argument that leads to your conclusion. Can I have it? Yes, read this thread... I've read it. I never saw you provide a list of premises that logically lead to your conclusion. "You believe in gravity because we can demonstrate it. If your god was as easy to demonstrate as gravity, everyone would believe in it." AC Quoting: BRIEF The existence of reality is your proof... How does this reality prove the existence of an all knowing, good, eternal being that intentionally brought everything into existence? Why not a partially knowing, slightly evil one? Why not many beings? Or something that's not a being at all? How have you ruled out these possibilities, in order to prove your belief? No, your existence is not proof that God is good. St. Thomas Aquinas used perfect logic to conclude God must be good. I will not post his entire logic, you must read it yourself... I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked. |
BRIEF User ID: 79662918 United States 07/13/2021 09:44 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic ... Quoting: BRIEF I am living proof of a creator and if you do not believe what your senses tell you, I cannot help you...We call it faith because we cannot measure it... How do you prove anything exists? By measuring it...We had to create machines to measure particles, and someday perhaps we will build a machine to speak to God...Moses had a "staff" which was an interface to directly communicate with God... Perhaps one day we'll invent the technology to see that our universe is on the back of a turtle. Hypothetical futures are not a reason to believe something. That would conflict with everything we know about the universe... I have read that book also, btw "The wit and wisdom of discworld" by: Terry Pratchett I enjoy philosophy as well... There's no conflict if the turtle is outside the universe. The point is, maybe one day we'll find out a lot of things. You're assuming what we find will validate your beliefs. By studying quantum physics, quantum mechanics, and quantum electrodynamics, I know that even the turtle is an illusion...Matter itself is an illusion... I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 79909160 United States 07/13/2021 09:47 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic Atheism = Ultimate ignorance and Pride Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10755955 At least Theists have legitimate reason to believe in a Higher Power with all the religious texts throughout the ages and man having a relationship with the Creator since the beginning of time. Not to mention how life is held together in a delicate balance and brought forth in a way so mysterious even to baffle the world's top scientist. A Seed makes a Tree. A Baby into a Human. Rain from the Heavens. Tell me the world has no meaning. Many of the ones who pushed Atheism were really worshiping the devil behind closed doors. They deceived the masses so they could carry out their agendas with less resistance. If you forsake God, it's easier for evil people to deceive and control you. AND many others who were pushing Atheism were defining it simply as NOT being a theist, nothing more, and were being misrepresented by folks like you. Surprise, surprise, another disagreement turns out to be just another misunderstanding. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 78107151 Australia 07/13/2021 09:54 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78107151 Perhaps one day we'll invent the technology to see that our universe is on the back of a turtle. Hypothetical futures are not a reason to believe something. That would conflict with everything we know about the universe... I have read that book also, btw "The wit and wisdom of discworld" by: Terry Pratchett I enjoy philosophy as well... There's no conflict if the turtle is outside the universe. The point is, maybe one day we'll find out a lot of things. You're assuming what we find will validate your beliefs. By studying quantum physics, quantum mechanics, and quantum electrodynamics, I know that even the turtle is an illusion...Matter itself is an illusion... I think 'matter is an illusion' is an over simplification of Quantum theory. Regardless, you can't know the state of the turtle if its outside our universe. Maybe Quantum theory does not apply there. I have read Aquinas's argument, but I'd have to brush up on it again in order to provide any kind of rebuttal. From memory, it seemed to smuggle some doctrine specific assumptions into the premises, like the Kalaam Cosmological argument, which can -at best- demonstrate a first cause, but not any specific personal deity. |
BRIEF User ID: 79662918 United States 07/13/2021 10:00 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic ... Quoting: BRIEF That would conflict with everything we know about the universe... I have read that book also, btw "The wit and wisdom of discworld" by: Terry Pratchett I enjoy philosophy as well... There's no conflict if the turtle is outside the universe. The point is, maybe one day we'll find out a lot of things. You're assuming what we find will validate your beliefs. By studying quantum physics, quantum mechanics, and quantum electrodynamics, I know that even the turtle is an illusion...Matter itself is an illusion... I think 'matter is an illusion' is an over simplification of Quantum theory. Regardless, you can't know the state of the turtle if its outside our universe. Maybe Quantum theory does not apply there. I have read Aquinas's argument, but I'd have to brush up on it again in order to provide any kind of rebuttal. From memory, it seemed to smuggle some doctrine specific assumptions into the premises, like the Kalaam Cosmological argument, which can -at best- demonstrate a first cause, but not any specific personal deity. Do that. Basically, according to logic, which is revered in science, there must be a creator that we call God, and He must be good. I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 78107151 Australia 07/13/2021 10:05 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78107151 There's no conflict if the turtle is outside the universe. The point is, maybe one day we'll find out a lot of things. You're assuming what we find will validate your beliefs. By studying quantum physics, quantum mechanics, and quantum electrodynamics, I know that even the turtle is an illusion...Matter itself is an illusion... I think 'matter is an illusion' is an over simplification of Quantum theory. Regardless, you can't know the state of the turtle if its outside our universe. Maybe Quantum theory does not apply there. I have read Aquinas's argument, but I'd have to brush up on it again in order to provide any kind of rebuttal. From memory, it seemed to smuggle some doctrine specific assumptions into the premises, like the Kalaam Cosmological argument, which can -at best- demonstrate a first cause, but not any specific personal deity. Do that. Basically, according to logic, which is revered in science, there must be a creator that we call God, and He must be good. If you're so convinced, you should be able to provide a basic deductive syllogism. ie: All dogs are mammals All mammals are warm blooded Therefor, dogs are warm blooded Can you at least tell me which arguments you consider to be proof? Is it these? [link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)] |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80500916 United States 07/13/2021 10:16 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic Isn't an atheist a person that does not know if god is real or not? Why is it special an atheist said this? Most atheists would say, of course it is possible a god exists or not. The primary point being the do not know one way or the other. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80598746 United States 07/13/2021 10:19 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic Isn't an atheist a person that does not know if god is real or not? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80500916 Why is it special an atheist said this? Most atheists would say, of course it is possible a god exists or not. The primary point being the do not know one way or the other. I suspect many atheists are recovering from being butthurt through their religious upbringing. - - - - - - |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 78107151 Australia 07/13/2021 10:22 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic Isn't an atheist a person that does not know if god is real or not? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80500916 Why is it special an atheist said this? Most atheists would say, of course it is possible a god exists or not. The primary point being the do not know one way or the other. It usually means someone that does not believe in a god. But Dawkins has always openly said he can't disprove God. |
Revolution of Consciousness User ID: 35990220 United States 07/13/2021 10:31 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic Isn't an atheist a person that does not know if god is real or not? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80500916 Why is it special an atheist said this? Most atheists would say, of course it is possible a god exists or not. The primary point being the do not know one way or the other. It usually means someone that does not believe in a god. But Dawkins has always openly said he can't disprove God. These are not contradictory. Not believing does not necessarily equate to disbelief. |
BRIEF User ID: 79662918 United States 07/13/2021 10:36 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic ... Quoting: BRIEF By studying quantum physics, quantum mechanics, and quantum electrodynamics, I know that even the turtle is an illusion...Matter itself is an illusion... I think 'matter is an illusion' is an over simplification of Quantum theory. Regardless, you can't know the state of the turtle if its outside our universe. Maybe Quantum theory does not apply there. I have read Aquinas's argument, but I'd have to brush up on it again in order to provide any kind of rebuttal. From memory, it seemed to smuggle some doctrine specific assumptions into the premises, like the Kalaam Cosmological argument, which can -at best- demonstrate a first cause, but not any specific personal deity. Do that. Basically, according to logic, which is revered in science, there must be a creator that we call God, and He must be good. If you're so convinced, you should be able to provide a basic deductive syllogism. ie: All dogs are mammals All mammals are warm blooded Therefor, dogs are warm blooded Can you at least tell me which arguments you consider to be proof? Is it these? [link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)] Those are St Thomas's arguments with which I agree... I have already stated mine, and do not wish to further repeat myself... I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked. |
BRIEF User ID: 79662918 United States 07/13/2021 10:37 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: 'I can't be sure God DOES NOT exist': World's most notorious atheist Richard Dawkins admits he is in fact agnostic Isn't an atheist a person that does not know if god is real or not? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80500916 Why is it special an atheist said this? Most atheists would say, of course it is possible a god exists or not. The primary point being the do not know one way or the other. It usually means someone that does not believe in a god. But Dawkins has always openly said he can't disprove God. Sorta like gravity, eh? You can prove it exists, but you can't prove it exists... Last Edited by BRIEF on 07/13/2021 10:37 AM I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked. |