PROOF JESUS IS NOT GOD THE FATHER !! BUT THE GLORIFIED AND EXALTED SON

There are those who need to have this broken down to the basics.Next you are right! The father has A NAME Eh'Yeh

Thank you for your response.

Just to clarify-

Are you saying that Jesus was not God the Father but that He is one with God because of His obedience?







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I am saying that "Jesus" (to be honest, I prefer Messiah because of how the name Jesus came to be makes me uncomfortable) is not God, "Jesus" lived fully the will of God. So in a way yes. He is One with the Father in that God worked through him fully. He fully knew and lived the mind and will of God.

If Messiah had been God, he would not have had to have been baptized in water nor would He have had to receive the Holy Spirit, would he?

He is the Son. He is the Son in that He came in the flesh, but did not live by the flesh.

He fully lived the will of God because he subdued his carnal spirit, the spirit of man, and instead lived as God instructed Him to via the Holy Spirit.

This is why he says to the apostles to wait to receive the Holy spirit and that they will do many of the same things He did and even greater because it will be God and the Holy Spirit working through them as well.

Messiah came to teach us by example he showed that we can lead a life free from sin but in order to do so we must believe Him (not believe "in" or worship) and His teachings.

You do not know the Father by Worshiping messiah; You come to the Father through Messiah by living the way Messiah taught us to.

He teaches that upon submitting to God, we can receive the Holy Spirit and through the Holy Spirit we will be shown the errors of our ways over time allowing us to repent each one, crucify it and replace that part of our carnal spirit with more of the Holy Spirit. Only when we are living by only the Holy Spirit and have crucified (suppressed) our carnal Spirit can we find salvation and live in the Kingdom of God as a son of God both here and now (hence him saying "this generation) and in the New Jerusalem. It is a choice we need to make every time we we are tempted by our carnal nature and each time you put a sin aside and instead live by his will, that sin of the carnal nature weakens it's hold on us. This is what He means by taking up our own cross.

Don't you see that that is what the New Jerusalem is? It is the freedom of living in the Spirit. Freedom from sin. Freedom of the fear of making the wrong choices, Freedom from the despair caused by the repercussions of sinful actions. The more you sin, the more sin comes to you and the inverse is true as well. The more you put aside your carnal nature and are obedient to Him, the less hold that carnality has on you.

Asking Messiah, God or the Spirit into your heart is NOT your salvation. Messiah came to give us HOPE of salvation and showed us how. It is an ongoing process that He has written a syllabubs out for you and each person will learn what he needs as he needs it directly from Him when you fully submit and ask God to take control and show you the way rather than my living in "the world" and being driven by your own carnal spirit which has selfish wants and needs.


Messiah removed the middleman. He removed the Pharisees, the Pastors and the priests and brought us closer to the relationship we had with God before Moses and gave us the hope and showed us how we can repair the personal relationship that Adam and Eve had with Him before they fell, the state we were created to live in. He came to give us the hope and the way to attain a full and personal relationship with God that transcends yet fulfills scripture. He tells us how to reunite with our Father because each of us is the prodigal son.

[link to christiandefense.org]

OP article will help you understand

So,

Why did you assume that we did not agree?



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I did not.

I felt called to expand on it.

This was intended for other posters?...

"All be one" is not what you think at all.'


Ok



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^This is an interesting interpretation^.

So do you disagree that it is a 'city'?...

Revelation 3:12
... the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem


And how do you reconcile your interpretation with this verse:

Daniel 9:25
the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.






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I agree it is because of obedience but that is only part of it.

Obedience has such a negative connotation as well, hence the elaboration.

Messiah is NOT God, He is the Son of God.
He did not ask us to worship Him, He asks that we believe Him and follow His teachings because His teachings are God's teachings because He and the Father are one.

yer preachin to the choir...




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It is both.

We have the potential to attain the Kingdom of God in our personal lives by fulling living the will of God and upon doing so will be admitted to the New Jerusalem when it comes where ALL who live there will live the will of God. We can be sons of God here and now and will be and live with the sons of God in the New Jerusalem.

Much of the scripture has dual meanings, such as marriage.

We are expected to be faithful to our spouses and not commit adultery.

We are also expected to be faithful to God as we are the church or the bride. We are to marry ourselves to Him and his will and are not to adulterate His law.

LOL, then I was compelled to put it there for someone who was wondering I suppose.

<3

Jesus is The Logos (Word) incarnate. See John 1:1-5 and you can see the 2 always existed. Jesus (the Logos/Word) is the Creator of ta panta (the all). He divested Himself and came to earth as a man. See Luke 1:26-35 and you will see Gabriel announced the coming of Jesus via a woman who would be impregnated by the Holy Spirit (force or power of God). It's ALL there in the Bible.

^That answer seems to be acceptable^.

Thanks.


+

I do not subscribe to any church doctrine

Take from it what you will







John 1

King James Version (KJV)


John 1

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

"The same was in the beginning with God."

"All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

"In him was life; and the life was the light of men."

"And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."




1 John 5:6-9

King James Version (KJV)


"This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth."

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

"And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

"If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son."




John 20:26-30

King James Version (KJV)


"And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you."

"Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing."

"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God."

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:"





Colossians 2:8-10

King James Version (KJV)


"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."

"And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:"




Hebrews 1:1-9

King James Version (KJV)


Hebrews 1

"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,"

"Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"

"Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:"

"Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they."

"For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?"

"And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him."

"And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire."

"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

"Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."




Philippians 2:6-8

King James Version (KJV)


"Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"

"But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:"

"And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

In response to your questions/accusations, In order:

We are ALL eternal. We also eternally Progress. In short we 'were' before we 'are'.

Jesus, Lucifer, you, me, we are ALL equals in spirit; this requires a knowledge of purpose of mortality, the purpose of the earth, and the Plan of Salvation put forth to redeem us all. Before the earth was made, after we had all been begotten as spirits, we loved God and wanted to be like him. God had a glorified, physical body of flesh and bone. A plan was devised where a home would be prapared for us (the earth), where we would be born, be tested as to our obedience to the laws and ordinances of God, and return to him based on our worthiness. Jesus set forth a plan where all mankind would have the free agency to do right or wrong, and those redeemed would have the glory for it given to God. Lucifer set forth a plan where all souls would be forced to obey the laws and ordinances of God, so that no soul would be lost, and the glory for the redemption of all mankind be given to Lucifer. God chose the plan set forth by Jesus, as it is an eternal principle that men should have free will. A war in heaven was fought, with Lucifer and 1/3 of the hosts of heaven cast down to earth and would never attain a mortal or physical state. A mortal "probation" is required to fully be tested of our willingness to follow God's plan. So, in the beginning, Jesus, Lucifer, you, me, and everyone else were equals in a sense; but through free will, most of us did not offer a plan or were in agreement with Jesus or Lucifer. Because you are alive today, you sided with Christ's plan in the pre-existence. Because of his place as the First begotten in the spirit and his place as the architect of our salvation, he was chosen to be born into mortality as the PHYSICAL son of God also, giving him certain power and authority of God in the Flesh.

The bible is true and is the word of God; however we believe that when the King James Bible was put together, there were many truths left out that should have remained as a part of Christ's gospel, and also misinterpretations. We also believe that the Book of Mormon is also the word of God, specifically as a SECOND witness of Christ. There are gospel messages and Christ's teachings in the Book of Mormon as well, although most of it is a record of the history of the Nephites and Lamanites.

You are absolutely correct in the fact that the book of Revelation should not be added to or taken away from. This admonition applies to the book of Revelation only; keep in mind that when the Bible was originally compiled, that manuscript stood alone. It was placed in the order it was by men; that warning applies to the book of Revelation, not the Bible as a whole. Any more questions?

Titus Flavius was Caesar & Pointif Maximus of the Roman Empire. He called himself God the Father. He referred to his son as the son of God.

He had a problem with some rebellious jewish people. His millitary beat the jewish people, but he still had a problem. He comissioned the writting of a few books (the Gospels) and ordered the jewish people to believe it (at sword point).

A few generations later and Caesar diden't even need an army anymore.

[link to www.amazon.com]

Amen.

Thank you for posting those wonderful verses.



^^

...yes we know king herod and temple virgin mary as mom...jesus is still the bloodline of the kings and prophets...prophets and priests don't get along...prophets give the mysteries free to help all, the priests use the mysteries to fleece and power-trip, simple as that...

The body is made of many members who have been prepared by the Anointing and each one of these members are moved within their SOULS by the Anointing. Not all have the same gifts but WE are one body and the power that lives and moves through is the evidence of OUR testimony.

Remember not one single person has all the answers,that is why the body is made of many members each working together through the true power of the Love of the Father and the Mother.WE are here to make sure OUR Mothers and Fathers of OUR generations did not die for nothing in their testimonies of THE CHRIST.

That their days be long should come to mind about right now...and kept in your remembrances while they,the generations before and the prophets who are faithful wait for US to complete and finish what is written to its finality. If WE have not Love than truly the Love of the Father is not in US and if WE allow the body to be dismembered than WE are aiding and abetting the Darkest hearts in their conquest to destroy all that comes by the TESTIMONY of the Love of the Mother and the Father.

May you all search out the Motives of your hearts that in this day you receive the Anointing Holy Ghost that casts out all FEAR which has been used to blind you. The Saints will enter through the gates into the Holy City that has been prepared for them, will you be with them when it is said...

NOW IT IS FINISHED

MJ

you have some interesting points good for conversation.

I would shudder, if I were you, to declare that Messiah is not the Mighty I AM.

And,ask for forgiveness.

you should be shuddering he is right and you should be looking for forgiveness..Messiah is the LIVING WORD of the I AM

Last Edited by Neim-Ya'shar on 04/20/2012 10:07 PM

Who said that Christ is the Father?


One God.....manifesting simultaneously in three personages......the Father, Son, and the Spirit.


Difficult for a human to comprehend.....but that is it.


The closest human experience would be a father and son who have a very close relationship....and love each other very much. They are separate and unique in the physical sense......but connected as one in their spirit.

When Christ says that he will knock on the door of people's hearts (Rev 3:20)......it is not He in the physical sense.....as He is seated at the right hand of the Father. But Christ is connected as One with the Holy Spirit.....and the Holy Spirit convicts people of sin.


And when Christ ascended......he told His followers that He would not leave them as orphans......but would send the Helper.....i.e. the Holy Spirit.


The Spirit and Christ are as One......as the Father and the Spirit are as One........as all three are as One.

yeah! john chp 17 and the apostles also are the father!

Last Edited by Neim-Ya'shar on 04/20/2012 10:36 PM

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

"If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him."

Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us."

Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

"Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.

"Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves."

What alse he said go on there are many more of those in the book of john I know them all

revelation gives even better clarity of the father and son.

So pull them all and post them don't cherry pick the ones that you think we don't understnad what is really meant.


If peter the apostle of messiah confirmed who the messiah was the son of the living God and then the messiah said to him blessed are you Simon Barjonah for man did not reveal that to you but my father in heaven..

Then tell me who are you?

Last Edited by Neim-Ya'shar on 04/20/2012 11:20 PM

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

The word beginning here is referring to the time of Creation.

This marks the start also of Scripture......but God was in existence from eternity past.......long before the Genesis account.

"The Word" is another name given to Christ as found in John Chp 1. God also used words to speak the Creation into existence.

It is a faulty assumption that "The Word".....or Christ....the Son of God....was also created at the time of creation of this world.

This might only have been approx. 6,000 years ago.


The Son of God was in existence prior to the creation of this world.


Christ: "And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You BEFORE THE WORLD WAS." (John 17: 5)

I am not disputing that friend all those are great scriptures.I am saying the messiah is not God the father