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Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.

 
christian
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05/22/2012 12:42 PM

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Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
Given that the gay marriage agenda will be increasingly pressed upon Catholics by the state, we should be much more aware of what history has to teach us about gay marriage—given that we don’t want to be among those who, ignorant of history, blithely condemned themselves to repeat it.


Contrary to the popular view—both among proponents and opponents—gay marriage is not a new issue. It cannot be couched (by proponents) as a seamless advance on the civil rights movement, nor should it be understood (by opponents) as something that’s evil merely because it appears to them to be morally unprecedented.

Gay marriage was—surprise!—alive and well in Rome, celebrated even and especially by select emperors, a spin-off of the general cultural affirmation of Roman homosexuality. Gay marriage was, along with homosexuality, something the first Christians faced as part of the pagan moral darkness of their time.

What Christians are fighting against today, then, is not yet another sexual innovation peculiar to our “enlightened age,” but the return to pre-Christian, pagan sexual morality.


So, what was happening in ancient Rome? Homosexuality was just as widespread among the Romans as it was among the Greeks (a sign of which is that it was condoned even by the stolid Stoics). The Romans had adopted the pederasty of the Greeks (aimed, generally, at boys between the ages of 12 to 18). There was nothing shameful about such sexual relations among Romans, if the boy was not freeborn. Slaves, both male and female, were considered property, and that included sexual property.

But the Romans also extended homosexuality to adult men, even adult free men. And it is likely that this crossing of the line from child to adult, unfree to free—not homosexuality as such—was what affronted the more austere of the Roman moralists.

And so we hear from Tacitus (56-117 AD), the great Roman historian, of the shameful sexual exploits of a string of Roman emperors from Tiberius to Nero. Nero was the first imperial persecutor of the Christians. His tutor and then advisor was the great Stoic moralist Seneca himself. Unfortunately, Seneca’s lessons must have bounced right off the future emperor. When he took the imperial seat, complete with its aura of self-proclaimed divinity, no trace of Stoic austerity remained.

In Nero, Tacitus tells the reader, tyrannical passion, the hubris of proclaimed divinity, the corruption of power, and “every filthy depraved act, licit or illicit” seemed to reach an imperial peak. He not only had a passion for “free-born boys” but also for quite literally marrying other men and even a boy, sometimes playing the part of the woman in the union and sometimes the man.

As Tacitus relates one incident (Grant’s translation): “Nero was already corrupted by every lust, natural and unnatural. But he now refuted any surmises that no further degradation was possible for him. For…he went through a formal wedding ceremony with one of the perverted gang called Pythagoras. The emperor, in the presence of witnesses, put on the bridal veil. Dowry, marriage bed, wedding torches, all were there. Indeed everything was public which even in a natural union is veiled by night.”

Such was only one instance. We also have from historian Seutonius, a contemporary of Tacitus, a report of Nero’s marriage to Doryphorus (who was himself married to another man, Sporus).

Martial, the first-century A.D. Roman poet, reports incidences of male-male marriage as kinds of perversions, but not uncommon perversions, speaking in one epigram (I.24) of a man who “played the bride yesterday.” In another (12.42) he says mockingly, “Bearded Callistratus gave himself in marriage to…Afer, in the manner in which a virgin usually gives herself in marriage to a male. The torches shone in front, the bridal veils covered his face, and wedding toasts were not absent, either. A dowry was also named. Does that not seem enough yet for you, Rome? Are you waiting for him to give birth?”

In Juvenal’s Second Satire (117), we hear of one Gracchus, “arraying himself in the flounces and train and veil of a bride,” now a “new-made bride reclining on the bosom of her husband.” Such seems to have been the usual way of male-male nuptials among the Romans, one of the men actually dressing up as a woman and playing the part of a woman.

The notoriously debauched emperor Elagabalus (ruled 218-222) married and then divorced five women. But he considered his male chariot driver to be his “husband,” and he also married one Zoticus, an athlete. Elagabalus loved to dress up as a queen, quite literally.

Our reports of homosexual marriage from Rome give us, I hope, a clearer understanding of what is at stake. As is the case today, it appears that the incidence of male-male marriage followed upon the widespread acceptance of homosexuality; that is, the practice of homosexuality led to the notion that, somehow, homosexual unions should share in the same status as heterosexual unions.

We must also add that heterosexuality among the Romans was also in a sad state. Both concubinage and prostitution were completely acceptable; pornography and sexually explicit entertainment and speech were entirely normalized; the provision of sex by both male and female slaves was considered a duty by masters. Paeans to the glory of marriage were made, not because the Romans had some proto-Christian notion of the sanctity of marriage, but because Rome needed more citizen-soldiers just when the Romans were depopulating themselves by doing anything to avoid having children.

The heterosexual moral disrepair in Rome therefore formed the social basis for the Roman slide into homosexual marriage rites. We hear of them from critics bent on satirizing such unions. The problem for the Romans wasn’t homosexuality as such, but that a Roman man would debase himself and play the part of a woman in matrimony.

Christians had a problem with the whole Roman sexual scene. We are, of course, not surprised to find that the first Christians accepted and carried forward the strict rejection of homosexuality inherent in Judaism, but this was part of its more encompassing rejection of any sexuality outside of heterosexual, monogamous marriage. Christians are not to be lauded for affirming that marriage must be defined as a union of a man and a woman, because that is the natural default of any people intent on not disappearing in a single generation. What was peculiar to Christianity (again, not just following Judaism, but intensifying it) was the restriction of sexuality only to monogamous, heterosexual marriage.

The Christians found themselves in a pagan culture where there were few restrictions on sexuality at all, other than the imagination—a culture that, to note the obvious but exceedingly important, looks suspiciously like ours.

The first-century A.D. catechetical manual, the Didache, makes refreshingly clear what pagans will have to give up, in regard to Roman sexuality, once they entered the Church. It begins with the ominous words, “There are two ways: one of life and one of death—and there is a great difference between the two ways.” The pagan converts are then confronted with a list of commands. Some of which would have been quite familiar and reasonable to Romans, such as, “You will not murder” and, “You will not commit adultery” (although for Romans, abortion wasn’t murder, and a husband having sex with slaves or prostitutes was not considered adulterous).

But then followed strange commands (at least to the Romans), “You will not corrupt boys”; “You will not have illicit sex” (ou porneuseis); “You will not murder offspring by means of abortion [and] you will not kill one having been born.” Against the norm in Rome, Christians must reject pedophilia, fornication and homosexuality, abortion, and infanticide. The list also commands, “You will not make potions” (ou pharmakeuseis), a prohibition against widespread practices in the Roman Empire which included potions that stopped conception or caused abortion.

I include the prohibitions against sexual practices heartily affirmed by the Romans alongside prohibitions against contraception, abortion, and infanticide for a very important reason. Christians defined the goal of sexuality in terms of the natural ability to procreate. What was different, again, was not recognizing the obvious need for a man and a woman to make a child—Stoics argued along the same lines. What was peculiar to Christianity was removing all other expressions of sexuality from legitimacy (many Stoic men had male paramours).

The Roman elevation of sexual pleasure above procreation, and hence outside this tightly-defined area of sexual legitimacy defined by Christianity, led to the desire for contraceptive potions, abortifacients, and infanticide.

It also led to seeing marriage as nothing but an arena for sexual pleasure, which in turn allowed for an equivalency of heterosexual and homosexual marriage.

The Theodosian Code, drawn up by Christian emperors in the fifth century, A.D. made same-sex marriage illegal (referring, as precedent, to edicts published under fourth-century emperors Constantius II and Constans).

We can see, then, that Christians face nothing new in regard to the push for gay marriage. In fact, it is something quite old, and represents a return to the pagan views of sexuality that dominated the Roman Empire into which Christianity was born

[link to www.catholicworldreport.com]
Susie

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.....Matthew 6:21
There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens: Ecclesiastes 3:1
christian  (OP)
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05/22/2012 12:50 PM

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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
The Theodosian Code (Book XVI), 326 From The Theodosian Code, trans. by Clyde Pharr (Princeton, New Jersey: The Princeton University Press, 1952), XVI, 440476.)


I, 2. IT IS Our will that all the peoples who are ruled by the administration of Our Clemency shall practice that religion which the divine Peter the Apostle transmitted to the Romans, as the religion which he introduced makes clear even unto this day. It is evident that this is the religion that is followed by the Pontiff Damasus and by Peter, Bishop of Alexandria, a man of apostolic sanctity; that is, according to the apostolic discipline and the evangelic doctrine, we shall believe in the single Deity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, under the concept of equal majesty and of the Holy Trinity.

We command that those persons who follow this rule shall embrace the name of Catholic Christians. The rest, however, whom We adjudge demented and insane, shall sustain the infamy of heretical dogmas, their meeting places shall not receive the name of churches, and they shall be smitten first by divine vengeance and secondly by the retribution of Our own initiative, which We shall assume in accordance with the divine judgment (28 February 380).

I, 3. We command that all churches shall immediately be surrendered to those bishops who confess that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are of one majesty and virtue, of the same glory, and of one splendor; to those bishops who produce no dissonance by unholy distinction, but who affirm the concept of the Trinity by the assertion of three Persons and thr unity of the Divinity. . . . All, he ever, who dissent from the communio' of the faith of those who have been expressly mentioned in this special enumeration shall be expelled from their churches as manifest heretics and hereafter shall be altogether denied the right and power to obtain churches, in order that the priesthood of the true Nicene faith may remain pure, and after the clear regulations of Our law, there shall be no opportunity for malicious subtlety (30 July 381).

[link to www.scrollpublishing.com]
Susie

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.....Matthew 6:21
There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens: Ecclesiastes 3:1
Anonymous Coward
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05/22/2012 12:50 PM
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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
sorry, couldn't read all your god-bothering nonsense. but I think it's safe to say that noone's gonna force you to marry another Susie. so as long as you leave other people be and finally mind your own business, then there's nothing for you to worry about, is there?

pope
Vlad Tepes

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05/22/2012 12:55 PM
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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
sorry, couldn't read all your god-bothering nonsense. but I think it's safe to say that noone's gonna force you to marry another Susie. so as long as you leave other people be and finally mind your own business, then there's nothing for you to worry about, is there?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16506013


Sorry, couldn't read all of your pagan tripe....
Sol Dominvs Imperi Romani
Imperium Romanum Sacrum
In Varietate Concordia
KlLLUMINATI

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05/22/2012 12:57 PM
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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
Given that the gay marriage agenda will be increasingly pressed upon Catholics by the state, we should be much more aware of what history has to teach us about gay marriage—given that we don’t want to be among those who, ignorant of history, blithely condemned themselves to repeat it.


Contrary to the popular view—both among proponents and opponents—gay marriage is not a new issue. It cannot be couched (by proponents) as a seamless advance on the civil rights movement, nor should it be understood (by opponents) as something that’s evil merely because it appears to them to be morally unprecedented.

Gay marriage was—surprise!—alive and well in Rome, celebrated even and especially by select emperors, a spin-off of the general cultural affirmation of Roman homosexuality. Gay marriage was, along with homosexuality, something the first Christians faced as part of the pagan moral darkness of their time.

What Christians are fighting against today, then, is not yet another sexual innovation peculiar to our “enlightened age,” but the return to pre-Christian, pagan sexual morality.


So, what was happening in ancient Rome? Homosexuality was just as widespread among the Romans as it was among the Greeks (a sign of which is that it was condoned even by the stolid Stoics). The Romans had adopted the pederasty of the Greeks (aimed, generally, at boys between the ages of 12 to 18). There was nothing shameful about such sexual relations among Romans, if the boy was not freeborn. Slaves, both male and female, were considered property, and that included sexual property.

But the Romans also extended homosexuality to adult men, even adult free men. And it is likely that this crossing of the line from child to adult, unfree to free—not homosexuality as such—was what affronted the more austere of the Roman moralists.

And so we hear from Tacitus (56-117 AD), the great Roman historian, of the shameful sexual exploits of a string of Roman emperors from Tiberius to Nero. Nero was the first imperial persecutor of the Christians. His tutor and then advisor was the great Stoic moralist Seneca himself. Unfortunately, Seneca’s lessons must have bounced right off the future emperor. When he took the imperial seat, complete with its aura of self-proclaimed divinity, no trace of Stoic austerity remained.

In Nero, Tacitus tells the reader, tyrannical passion, the hubris of proclaimed divinity, the corruption of power, and “every filthy depraved act, licit or illicit” seemed to reach an imperial peak. He not only had a passion for “free-born boys” but also for quite literally marrying other men and even a boy, sometimes playing the part of the woman in the union and sometimes the man.

As Tacitus relates one incident (Grant’s translation): “Nero was already corrupted by every lust, natural and unnatural. But he now refuted any surmises that no further degradation was possible for him. For…he went through a formal wedding ceremony with one of the perverted gang called Pythagoras. The emperor, in the presence of witnesses, put on the bridal veil. Dowry, marriage bed, wedding torches, all were there. Indeed everything was public which even in a natural union is veiled by night.”

Such was only one instance. We also have from historian Seutonius, a contemporary of Tacitus, a report of Nero’s marriage to Doryphorus (who was himself married to another man, Sporus).

Martial, the first-century A.D. Roman poet, reports incidences of male-male marriage as kinds of perversions, but not uncommon perversions, speaking in one epigram (I.24) of a man who “played the bride yesterday.” In another (12.42) he says mockingly, “Bearded Callistratus gave himself in marriage to…Afer, in the manner in which a virgin usually gives herself in marriage to a male. The torches shone in front, the bridal veils covered his face, and wedding toasts were not absent, either. A dowry was also named. Does that not seem enough yet for you, Rome? Are you waiting for him to give birth?”

In Juvenal’s Second Satire (117), we hear of one Gracchus, “arraying himself in the flounces and train and veil of a bride,” now a “new-made bride reclining on the bosom of her husband.” Such seems to have been the usual way of male-male nuptials among the Romans, one of the men actually dressing up as a woman and playing the part of a woman.

The notoriously debauched emperor Elagabalus (ruled 218-222) married and then divorced five women. But he considered his male chariot driver to be his “husband,” and he also married one Zoticus, an athlete. Elagabalus loved to dress up as a queen, quite literally.

Our reports of homosexual marriage from Rome give us, I hope, a clearer understanding of what is at stake. As is the case today, it appears that the incidence of male-male marriage followed upon the widespread acceptance of homosexuality; that is, the practice of homosexuality led to the notion that, somehow, homosexual unions should share in the same status as heterosexual unions.

We must also add that heterosexuality among the Romans was also in a sad state. Both concubinage and prostitution were completely acceptable; pornography and sexually explicit entertainment and speech were entirely normalized; the provision of sex by both male and female slaves was considered a duty by masters. Paeans to the glory of marriage were made, not because the Romans had some proto-Christian notion of the sanctity of marriage, but because Rome needed more citizen-soldiers just when the Romans were depopulating themselves by doing anything to avoid having children.

The heterosexual moral disrepair in Rome therefore formed the social basis for the Roman slide into homosexual marriage rites. We hear of them from critics bent on satirizing such unions. The problem for the Romans wasn’t homosexuality as such, but that a Roman man would debase himself and play the part of a woman in matrimony.

Christians had a problem with the whole Roman sexual scene. We are, of course, not surprised to find that the first Christians accepted and carried forward the strict rejection of homosexuality inherent in Judaism, but this was part of its more encompassing rejection of any sexuality outside of heterosexual, monogamous marriage. Christians are not to be lauded for affirming that marriage must be defined as a union of a man and a woman, because that is the natural default of any people intent on not disappearing in a single generation. What was peculiar to Christianity (again, not just following Judaism, but intensifying it) was the restriction of sexuality only to monogamous, heterosexual marriage.

The Christians found themselves in a pagan culture where there were few restrictions on sexuality at all, other than the imagination—a culture that, to note the obvious but exceedingly important, looks suspiciously like ours.

The first-century A.D. catechetical manual, the Didache, makes refreshingly clear what pagans will have to give up, in regard to Roman sexuality, once they entered the Church. It begins with the ominous words, “There are two ways: one of life and one of death—and there is a great difference between the two ways.” The pagan converts are then confronted with a list of commands. Some of which would have been quite familiar and reasonable to Romans, such as, “You will not murder” and, “You will not commit adultery” (although for Romans, abortion wasn’t murder, and a husband having sex with slaves or prostitutes was not considered adulterous).

But then followed strange commands (at least to the Romans), “You will not corrupt boys”; “You will not have illicit sex” (ou porneuseis); “You will not murder offspring by means of abortion [and] you will not kill one having been born.” Against the norm in Rome, Christians must reject pedophilia, fornication and homosexuality, abortion, and infanticide. The list also commands, “You will not make potions” (ou pharmakeuseis), a prohibition against widespread practices in the Roman Empire which included potions that stopped conception or caused abortion.

I include the prohibitions against sexual practices heartily affirmed by the Romans alongside prohibitions against contraception, abortion, and infanticide for a very important reason. Christians defined the goal of sexuality in terms of the natural ability to procreate. What was different, again, was not recognizing the obvious need for a man and a woman to make a child—Stoics argued along the same lines. What was peculiar to Christianity was removing all other expressions of sexuality from legitimacy (many Stoic men had male paramours).

The Roman elevation of sexual pleasure above procreation, and hence outside this tightly-defined area of sexual legitimacy defined by Christianity, led to the desire for contraceptive potions, abortifacients, and infanticide.

It also led to seeing marriage as nothing but an arena for sexual pleasure, which in turn allowed for an equivalency of heterosexual and homosexual marriage.

The Theodosian Code, drawn up by Christian emperors in the fifth century, A.D. made same-sex marriage illegal (referring, as precedent, to edicts published under fourth-century emperors Constantius II and Constans).

We can see, then, that Christians face nothing new in regard to the push for gay marriage. In fact, it is something quite old, and represents a return to the pagan views of sexuality that dominated the Roman Empire into which Christianity was born

[link to www.catholicworldreport.com]
 Quoting: christian


They should stay the closet
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I think that rich people should live like poor people, and poor people should live like rich people, and change every week....
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-Malcolm X

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-Dawn of the Dead

What an excellent day for an exorcism.
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christian  (OP)
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05/22/2012 12:58 PM

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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
sorry, couldn't read all your god-bothering nonsense. but I think it's safe to say that noone's gonna force you to marry another Susie. so as long as you leave other people be and finally mind your own business, then there's nothing for you to worry about, is there?

pope
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16506013


The Purpose of the Article is to inform people that we *TODAY* are facing what the FIRST CHRISTIANS* faced in Ancient Rome...A Society that has went back to PAGANISIM and HEDONISIM....No bounds in Sexual Morality...


Ancient Rome did not adhere to Sexual Morality and either do we...


You think today's society has a better chance of surviving this heresy better than the Romans did?

They were destroyed and so shall we unless we go back to the Morality of the one who gave it...
CREATOR GOD ALMIGHTY OF EVERYTHING CREATED...
Susie

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.....Matthew 6:21
There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens: Ecclesiastes 3:1
Anonymous Coward
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05/22/2012 01:00 PM
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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
sorry, couldn't read all your god-bothering nonsense. but I think it's safe to say that noone's gonna force you to marry another Susie. so as long as you leave other people be and finally mind your own business, then there's nothing for you to worry about, is there?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16506013


Sorry, couldn't read all of your pagan tripe....
 Quoting: Vlad Tepes


you didn't?? so how do u know it's either?

afraid it might burn your eyes? dear dear...
rockon
christian  (OP)
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05/22/2012 01:01 PM

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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
sorry, couldn't read all your god-bothering nonsense. but I think it's safe to say that noone's gonna force you to marry another Susie. so as long as you leave other people be and finally mind your own business, then there's nothing for you to worry about, is there?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16506013


Sorry, couldn't read all of your pagan tripe....
 Quoting: Vlad Tepes



1st Corinthians 1:24

but to those whom God has called, both jewish people and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

Education is Knowledge....


Sad but true..Most people are content living in the Dark and being fed a dose of daily lies from Doctrines of Demons.
Susie

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.....Matthew 6:21
There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens: Ecclesiastes 3:1
Anonymous Coward
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05/22/2012 01:04 PM
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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
sorry, couldn't read all your god-bothering nonsense. but I think it's safe to say that noone's gonna force you to marry another Susie. so as long as you leave other people be and finally mind your own business, then there's nothing for you to worry about, is there?

pope
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16506013


The Purpose of the Article is to inform people that we *TODAY* are facing what the FIRST CHRISTIANS* faced in Ancient Rome...A Society that has went back to PAGANISIM and HEDONISIM....No bounds in Sexual Morality...


Ancient Rome did not adhere to Sexual Morality and either do we...


You think today's society has a better chance of surviving this heresy better than the Romans did?

They were destroyed and so shall we unless we go back to the Morality of the one who gave it...
CREATOR GOD ALMIGHTY OF EVERYTHING CREATED...
 Quoting: christian



with all due respect *cough* ... who are u to say what is moral? put down that old fantasy book and climb off your soap box! all I care about is people treating each other with respect and not harming anyone else. Love thy neighbour as thyself anyone? what do you care who someone else falls in love with?
Anonymous Coward
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05/22/2012 01:04 PM
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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
focus on the mote in your own eye
Alrighty

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05/22/2012 01:06 PM
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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
This is funny stuff.rofl
Location; Nowhere with nobody
Anonymous Coward
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05/22/2012 01:07 PM
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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
OP, this country is on a slide down a path Sodom and Gemorrah would have been ashamed to have been associated with. It is moral lowest common demonimator.

1. It does matter what other people within society are doing. It matters to me because I have children and hope to have grandchildren and I want them to live in a world where sodomy isn't considered to be "a treat". That is filthy and wrong.

2. It matters because God will judge this land and my children and grandchildren may end up with their lives forfeit due to my silence concerning the behavior of others not related to me. We see this in history over and over. It is Science Fact and of concern to me, thus I can speak out against the perversion and CONDEMN IT. I have the right and the duty to do so to protect my children and grandchildren and to guard my face before My God!

3. The homosexual movement proceeds a larger movement that is masked at the moment, but concerns RAPING CHILDREN. The two perversions are hand in hand regardless of what proponents of adult homosexuality want others to believe. Children have fewer rights than adults in our society-see abortion-and they will be and are being targeted by those who are sunk low into perversion-those who no longer are holding up the standards to which human males are supposed to be held to-that of protecting the children. By being homosexual, a man is compromised-no longer a man, but neither is he a woman. Thus, he is no longer protecting children and women as he is at enmity with them competing for the sexual attention of the adult males. This is wrong in any society and should NOT be tolerated. Not only for the sake of the women and children, but it shouldn't be tolerated for the sake of the young men who will be perverted and side-lined from their natural place in the group due to the acceptance of perverse beliefs.
Anonymous Coward
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05/22/2012 01:08 PM
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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
Do you really think the Catholic church is in a good position to pronounce on matters of sexual morality?

I seem to recall they've had a little, ahem, problem with priests diddling kids. And you know, covering it all up and stuff.
christian  (OP)
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05/22/2012 01:08 PM

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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
sorry, couldn't read all your god-bothering nonsense. but I think it's safe to say that noone's gonna force you to marry another Susie. so as long as you leave other people be and finally mind your own business, then there's nothing for you to worry about, is there?

pope
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16506013


The Purpose of the Article is to inform people that we *TODAY* are facing what the FIRST CHRISTIANS* faced in Ancient Rome...A Society that has went back to PAGANISIM and HEDONISIM....No bounds in Sexual Morality...


Ancient Rome did not adhere to Sexual Morality and either do we...


You think today's society has a better chance of surviving this heresy better than the Romans did?

They were destroyed and so shall we unless we go back to the Morality of the one who gave it...
CREATOR GOD ALMIGHTY OF EVERYTHING CREATED...
 Quoting: christian



with all due respect *cough* ... who are u to say what is moral? put down that old fantasy book and climb off your soap box! all I care about is people treating each other with respect and not harming anyone else. Love thy neighbour as thyself anyone? what do you care who someone else falls in love with?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16506013


You said:

who are u to say what is moral? I AM NO ONE TO SAY WHAT IS MORAL....Just like any human being is NO ONE to say what is MORAL..

However:

GOD is the CREATOR of Morality, he is the ONE who HAS ALL THE SAY..HE AND HE ONLY...

If GOD did not permit the People of Noah's Society

If GOD did not permit the people of Lot's Society

If GOD did not permit the people of ROMAN Society

To call the SHOTS OF MORALITY..


What makes you think he is going to Permit our Society to
say what is Moral?????

Susie

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.....Matthew 6:21
There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens: Ecclesiastes 3:1
Anonymous Coward
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United Kingdom
05/22/2012 01:11 PM
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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
This is funny stuff.rofl
 Quoting: Alrighty




Job 1927837:11

'Thou shalt not laugh in the presence of bible bashers.'

inquisitio
christian  (OP)
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05/22/2012 01:12 PM

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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
Do you really think the Catholic church is in a good position to pronounce on matters of sexual morality?

I seem to recall they've had a little, ahem, problem with priests diddling kids. And you know, covering it all up and stuff.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2469884


No doubt about it the Catholic Church itself has fallen prey to Satanic Influences....The Early Church was a off shoot of Judaism and the Gospel Message going out to a Gentile and Paganistic World...However they were instrumental in bringing Christianity to the Masses, did they fall and stumble? yes....However they were given the truth and that truth still holds today of the WORD OF GOD....
Susie

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.....Matthew 6:21
There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens: Ecclesiastes 3:1
Alrighty

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05/22/2012 01:15 PM
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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
This is funny stuff.rofl
 Quoting: Alrighty




Job 1927837:11

'Thou shalt not laugh in the presence of bible bashers.'

inquisitio
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16506013


It's not the content that makes me laugh, it's the way they go at each other.

Entertainment, and it's free.
Location; Nowhere with nobody
Anonymous Coward
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05/22/2012 01:15 PM
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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
What makes you think he is going to Permit our Society to
say what is Moral?????
 Quoting: christian


well apparently she's permitting you to spout all sorts of dribble.
christian  (OP)
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05/22/2012 01:16 PM

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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
OP, this country is on a slide down a path Sodom and Gemorrah would have been ashamed to have been associated with. It is moral lowest common demonimator.

1. It does matter what other people within society are doing. It matters to me because I have children and hope to have grandchildren and I want them to live in a world where sodomy isn't considered to be "a treat". That is filthy and wrong.

2. It matters because God will judge this land and my children and grandchildren may end up with their lives forfeit due to my silence concerning the behavior of others not related to me. We see this in history over and over. It is Science Fact and of concern to me, thus I can speak out against the perversion and CONDEMN IT. I have the right and the duty to do so to protect my children and grandchildren and to guard my face before My God!

3. The homosexual movement proceeds a larger movement that is masked at the moment, but concerns RAPING CHILDREN. The two perversions are hand in hand regardless of what proponents of adult homosexuality want others to believe. Children have fewer rights than adults in our society-see abortion-and they will be and are being targeted by those who are sunk low into perversion-those who no longer are holding up the standards to which human males are supposed to be held to-that of protecting the children. By being homosexual, a man is compromised-no longer a man, but neither is he a woman. Thus, he is no longer protecting children and women as he is at enmity with them competing for the sexual attention of the adult males. This is wrong in any society and should NOT be tolerated. Not only for the sake of the women and children, but it shouldn't be tolerated for the sake of the young men who will be perverted and side-lined from their natural place in the group due to the acceptance of perverse beliefs.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7612693


Yes...

These are the *Dangerous Times* Jesus spoke of in the Last Days...Hold on to your faith and your light... We are not appointed to GOD's Wrath....May the World see what is coming and repent before it is to late....


Last Edited by christian on 05/22/2012 01:17 PM
Susie

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.....Matthew 6:21
There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens: Ecclesiastes 3:1
Anonymous Coward
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05/22/2012 01:18 PM
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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
This is funny stuff.rofl
 Quoting: Alrighty




Job 1927837:11

'Thou shalt not laugh in the presence of bible bashers.'

inquisitio
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16506013


It's not a laughing matter, dear. Someday you will be in a position to see that. We all will be in a position to see just how unfunny this is in the face of individual judgement before a Perfect, Holy God-God is not a human and He WILL Judge-Jesus is THE JUDGE it will happen and when it does-all the things that a man or woman has done in their entire lives will be shown-maybe even like a movie you will have to watch as every sexual encounter is played out before a Just and Holy God who created you for His Pleasure and not for your own. Then He will pronounce judgement on each one. If it were not for Jesus Christ taking my punishment-I asked Him to accept me as one of His Lambs and to allow His Punishment on the Cross to stand in my place for the punishment I deserve, then I too would be deserving of hell.

I suppose warning others is "judging" them. That's ridiculous. Judgment is reviewing another persons actions and pronouncing a sentence. I am NOT THE JUDGE. Jesus Christ is THE JUDGE and He will break the nations with a Rod of Iron.

We simply warn because we don't want people to be taken in by satan's lies, some of us have even been taken in by those same lies before. We warn. You should listen and warn along with us, if you have any love in you or compassion for your fellow man.
Anonymous Coward
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05/22/2012 01:19 PM
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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
You said:

who are u to say what is moral? I AM NO ONE TO SAY WHAT IS MORAL....Just like any human being is NO ONE to say what is MORAL..

However:

GOD is the CREATOR of Morality, he is the ONE who HAS ALL THE SAY..HE AND HE ONLY...

If GOD did not permit the People of Noah's Society

If GOD did not permit the people of Lot's Society

If GOD did not permit the people of ROMAN Society

To call the SHOTS OF MORALITY..


What makes you think he is going to Permit our Society to
say what is Moral?????

 Quoting: christian


What makes you think a book written by man in any way reflects what god "permits"? You speak in absolutes, with no room for discussion or question. Everything you are claiming that any human being cannot say what is moral... unless it comes from a book written and re-written by MAN. Whatever.

The interesting thing about this to me is that even ancient rome dealt with this issue. Kind flies in face of the homophobes ranting on about modern culture influencing people to "become" gay. Seems to me that it has always been a part of human nature to some degree.
christian  (OP)
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05/22/2012 01:19 PM

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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
What makes you think he is going to Permit our Society to
say what is Moral?????
 Quoting: christian


well apparently she's permitting you to spout all sorts of dribble.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16506013


Strange you think I am the Author of the Holy Bible....

Thanks for the credit, but look to the one who's inspired WORD is the HOLY BIBLE...
Susie

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.....Matthew 6:21
There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens: Ecclesiastes 3:1
Whatsitallabout

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05/22/2012 01:19 PM
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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
sorry, couldn't read all your god-bothering nonsense. but I think it's safe to say that noone's gonna force you to marry another Susie. so as long as you leave other people be and finally mind your own business, then there's nothing for you to worry about, is there?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16506013


Sorry, couldn't read all of your pagan tripe....
 Quoting: Vlad Tepes



1st Corinthians 1:24

but to those whom God has called, both jewish people and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

Education is Knowledge....


Sad but true..Most people are content living in the Dark and being fed a dose of daily lies from Doctrines of Demons.
 Quoting: christian


You know that Lucifer is the god of the education system...right? That's where most of the doctrines of demons come from.

And does the gay agenda only affect Catholics/Christians? (I think there's other people in the world too, could be wrong..)
I seem to have nightmares while I'm daydreaming.
Anonymous Coward
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05/22/2012 01:20 PM
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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
And hence the phrase:

ROME IS BURNING
Anonymous Coward
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05/22/2012 01:22 PM
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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
Jesus never said a word about homosexuality. Pro or Con. But he shook the earth and destroyed "temples" with his words about Augustus "Everything on this earth shall be taxed" Cesear.
Anonymous Coward
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05/22/2012 01:22 PM
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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
What makes you think he is going to Permit our Society to
say what is Moral?????
 Quoting: christian


well apparently she's permitting you to spout all sorts of dribble.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16506013


Strange you think I am the Author of the Holy Bible....

Thanks for the credit, but look to the one who's inspired WORD is the HOLY BIBLE...
 Quoting: christian




What? scratching .... are you on about woman? that's it. I'm going somewheres sane.
christian  (OP)
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User ID: 6038128
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05/22/2012 01:23 PM

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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
You said:

who are u to say what is moral? I AM NO ONE TO SAY WHAT IS MORAL....Just like any human being is NO ONE to say what is MORAL..

However:

GOD is the CREATOR of Morality, he is the ONE who HAS ALL THE SAY..HE AND HE ONLY...

If GOD did not permit the People of Noah's Society

If GOD did not permit the people of Lot's Society

If GOD did not permit the people of ROMAN Society

To call the SHOTS OF MORALITY..


What makes you think he is going to Permit our Society to
say what is Moral?????

 Quoting: christian


What makes you think a book written by man in any way reflects what god "permits"? You speak in absolutes, with no room for discussion or question. Everything you are claiming that any human being cannot say what is moral... unless it comes from a book written and re-written by MAN. Whatever.

The interesting thing about this to me is that even ancient rome dealt with this issue. Kind flies in face of the homophobes ranting on about modern culture influencing people to "become" gay. Seems to me that it has always been a part of human nature to some degree.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6630717


And you don't think that those other societies said just what you did here: What makes you think a book written by man in any way reflects what god "permits"?


They were destroyed that is not up for Discussion....

GOD Does not ask for permission....He is GOD..not anyone else...Not a one...GOD is 1...


Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

Susie

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.....Matthew 6:21
There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens: Ecclesiastes 3:1
Anonymous Coward
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05/22/2012 01:26 PM
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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first animals with a penis.

Gay marriage was—surprise!—alive and well in Cambrian, celebrated even and especially by multi-celled creatures, a spin-off of the general cultural affirmation of Cambrian homosexuality. Gay marriage was, along with homosexuality, something the first animals faced as part of the darkrooms of their time.

So, what was happening in ancient Cambrian? Homosexuality was just as widespread among the animals as it was among the plants (a sign of which is that it was condome even on the solid Sticks). The animals had adopted the pederasty of the plants (aimed, generally, at plants between the heights of 12 to 18 inches). There was nothing shameful about such sexual relations among animals.

Our reports of homosexual marriage from animals give us, I hope, a clearer understanding of what is at stake.
Anonymous Coward
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05/22/2012 01:26 PM
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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
one last thing... I hope one of your children or grand-children turns out gay.... come to think of it, for their sake, I hope they don't.
Anonymous Coward
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05/22/2012 01:27 PM
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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
Go to any gay festival in San Francisco and see how deviant the homo behavior is, and how men can destroy their soul with no regard to their creator.
christian  (OP)
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05/22/2012 01:30 PM

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Re: Gay marriage and homosexuality were part of the moral landscape faced by the first Christians in Ancient Rome.
Jesus never said a word about homosexuality. Pro or Con. But he shook the earth and destroyed "temples" with his words about Augustus "Everything on this earth shall be taxed" Cesear.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10321246


What do you think Jesus was talking about right here?


Matthew 19:3

And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?”


He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?


So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”


They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

(Matthew 19:3-9 ESV)
Susie

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.....Matthew 6:21
There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens: Ecclesiastes 3:1





GLP