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You don't know SHIT about ObamaCare.......

 
DeadBeacon
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06/27/2012 07:13 PM
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You don't know SHIT about ObamaCare.......
....and neither do I. Here's the best I've found about the cost to families and small business.

[link to www.atr.org]
:Canadian F::State of Texas:

"Misunderestimating is only 5/4 th's of the problem"!

"Some choose to hear, few decide to listen".

"Question what you know and know why you question".

"GLP will never be the sane...uhhh...same".

"The markets will determine the fate of government intervention, not government intervening in the market".
Anonymous Coward
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06/27/2012 07:16 PM
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Re: You don't know SHIT about ObamaCare.......
Actually, I don't GIVE a shit about ObamaCare.., just saying.
DeadBeacon  (OP)

User ID: 17611429
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06/27/2012 07:19 PM
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Re: You don't know SHIT about ObamaCare.......
Actually, I don't GIVE a shit about ObamaCare.., just saying.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18639030


I understand your frustration but take five minutes of your life and take a gander at the taxes about to hit you and I.

Last Edited by DeadBeacon on 06/27/2012 07:19 PM
:Canadian F::State of Texas:

"Misunderestimating is only 5/4 th's of the problem"!

"Some choose to hear, few decide to listen".

"Question what you know and know why you question".

"GLP will never be the sane...uhhh...same".

"The markets will determine the fate of government intervention, not government intervening in the market".
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 13519069
United States
06/27/2012 07:21 PM
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Re: You don't know SHIT about ObamaCare.......
I know enough, dont need to know everything, its a bad bill/law, period, it was suppose to begin to lower premiums, but they have just kept goimg up, and once the GOV gets control of what treatments you can get at what age, its all over my friend
Anonymous Coward
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06/27/2012 07:26 PM
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Re: You don't know SHIT about ObamaCare.......
Okay, Obamacare explained like you're a five year-old (well, okay, maybe a bit older), without too much oversimplification, and (hopefully) without sounding too biased:

What people call "Obamacare" is actually the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. However, people were calling it "Obamacare" before everyone even hammered out what it would be. It's a term mostly used by people who don't like the PPACA, and it's become popularized in part because PPACA is a really long and awkward name, even when you turn it into an acronym like that.

Anyway, the PPACA made a bunch of new rules regarding health care, with the purpose of making health care more affordable for everyone. Opponents of the PPACA, on the other hand, feel that the rules it makes take away too many freedoms and force people (both individuals and businesses) to do things they shouldn't have to.

So what does it do? Well, here is everything, in the order of when it goes into effect (because some of it happens later than other parts of it):

Already in effect:

It allows the Food and Drug Administration to approve more generic drugs (making for more competition in the market to drive down prices)

It increases the rebates on drugs people get through Medicare (so drugs cost less)

It establishes a non-profit group, that the government doesn't directly control, PCORI, to study different kinds of treatments to see what works better and is the best use of money. ( Citation: Page 665, sec. 1181 )

It makes chain restaurants like McDonalds display how many calories are in all of their foods, so people can have an easier time making choices to eat healthy. ( Citation: Page 499, sec. 4205 )

It makes a "high-risk pool" for people with pre-existing conditions. Basically, this is a way to slowly ease into getting rid of "pre-existing conditions" altogether. For now, people who already have health issues that would be considered "pre-existing conditions" can still get insurance, but at different rates than people without them.

It renews some old policies, and calls for the appointment of various positions.

It creates a new 10% tax on indoor tanning booths. ( Citation: Page 923, sec. 5000B )

It says that health insurance companies can no longer tell customers that they won't get any more coverage because they have hit a "lifetime limit". Basically, if someone has paid for health insurance, that company can't tell that person that he's used that insurance too much throughout his life so they won't cover him any more. They can't do this for lifetime spending, and they're limited in how much they can do this for yearly spending. ( Citation: Page 14, sec. 2711 )

Kids can continue to be covered by their parents' health insurance until they're 26.

No more "pre-existing conditions" for kids under the age of 19.

Insurers have less ability to change the amount customers have to pay for their plans.

People in a "Medicare Gap" get a rebate to make up for the extra money they would otherwise have to spend.

Insurers can't just drop customers once they get sick. ( Citation: Page 14, sec. 2712 )

Insurers have to tell customers what they're spending money on. (Instead of just "administrative fee", they have to be more specific).

Insurers need to have an appeals process for when they turn down a claim, so customers have some manner of recourse other than a lawsuit when they're turned down.

New ways to stop fraud are created.

Medicare extends to smaller hospitals.

Medicare patients with chronic illnesses must be monitored more thoroughly.

Reduces the costs for some companies that handle benefits for the elderly.

A new website is made to give people insurance and health information. (I think this is it: [link to www.healthcare.gov] ).

A credit program is made that will make it easier for business to invest in new ways to treat illness.

A limit is placed on just how much of a percentage of the money an insurer makes can be profit, to make sure they're not price-gouging customers.

A limit is placed on what type of insurance accounts can be used to pay for over-the-counter drugs without a prescription. Basically, your insurer isn't paying for the Aspirin you bought for that hangover.

Employers need to list the benefits they provided to employees on their tax forms.

8/1/2012

Any health plans sold after this date must provide preventative care (mammograms, colonoscopies, etc.) without requiring any sort of co-pay or charge.

1/1/2013

If you make over $200,000 a year, your taxes go up a tiny bit (0.9%). Edit: To address those who take issue with the word "tiny", a change of 0.9% is relatively tiny. Any look at how taxes have fluctuated over the years will reveal that a change of less than one percent is miniscule, especially when we're talking about people in the top 5% of earners.

1/1/2014

This is when a lot of the really big changes happen.

No more "pre-existing conditions". At all. People will be charged the same regardless of their medical history.

If you can afford insurance but do not get it, you will be charged a fee. This is the "mandate" that people are talking about. Basically, it's a trade-off for the "pre-existing conditions" bit, saying that since insurers now have to cover you regardless of what you have, you can't just wait to buy insurance until you get sick. Otherwise no one would buy insurance until they needed it. You can opt not to get insurance, but you'll have to pay the fee instead, unless of course you're not buying insurance because you just can't afford it.

Insurers now can't do annual spending caps. Their customers can get as much health care in a given year as they need. ( Citation: Page 14, sec. 2711 )

Make it so more poor people can get Medicaid by making the low-income cut-off higher.

Small businesses get some tax credits for two years.

Businesses with over 50 employees must offer health insurance to full-time employees, or pay a penalty.

Limits how high of an annual deductible insurers can charge customers.

Cut some Medicare spending

Place a $2500 limit on tax-free spending on FSAs (accounts for medical spending). Basically, people using these accounts now have to pay taxes on any money over $2500 they put into them.

Establish health insurance exchanges and rebates for the lower and middle-class, basically making it so they have an easier time getting affordable medical coverage.

Congress and Congressional staff will only be offered the same insurance offered to people in the insurance exchanges, rather than Federal Insurance. Basically, we won't be footing their health care bills any more than any other American citizen.

A new tax on pharmaceutical companies.

A new tax on the purchase of medical devices.

A new tax on insurance companies based on their market share. Basically, the more of the market they control, the more they'll get taxed.

The amount you can deduct from your taxes for medical expenses increases.

1/1/2015

Doctors' pay will be determined by the quality of their care, not how many people they treat. Edit: a_real_MD addresses questions regarding this one in far more detail and with far more expertise than I can offer in this post. If you're looking for a more in-depth explanation of this one (as many of you are), I highly recommend you give his post a read.

1/1/2017

If any state can come up with their own plan, one which gives citizens the same level of care at the same price as the PPACA, they can ask the Secretary of Health and Human Resources for permission to do their plan instead of the PPACA. So if they can get the same results without, say, the mandate, they can be allowed to do so. Vermont, for example, has expressed a desire to just go straight to single-payer (in simple terms, everyone is covered, and medical expenses are paid by taxpayers).

2018

All health care plans must now cover preventative care (not just the new ones).

A new tax on "Cadillac" health care plans (more expensive plans for rich people who want fancier coverage).

2020

The elimination of the "Medicare gap"

.

Aaaaand that's it right there.

The biggest thing opponents of the bill have against it is the mandate. They claim that it forces people to buy insurance, and forcing people to buy something is unconstitutional. Personally, I take the opposite view, as it's not telling people to buy a specific thing, just to have a specific type of thing, just like a part of the money we pay in taxes pays for the police and firemen who protect us, this would have us paying to ensure doctors can treat us for illness and injury.

Plus, as previously mentioned, it's necessary if you're doing away with "pre-existing conditions" because otherwise no one would get insurance until they needed to use it, which defeats the purpose of insurance.
last one
I just don't give a fuck

User ID: 3884091
United States
06/27/2012 07:38 PM

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Re: You don't know SHIT about ObamaCare.......
propoganda
If I'd known I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself.

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I dreamed I was drinkin', woke up and I was

"we put our faith in maniacs"- Lemmy Kilmister
DeadBeacon  (OP)

User ID: 17611429
United States
06/27/2012 07:41 PM
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Re: You don't know SHIT about ObamaCare.......
propoganda
 Quoting: last one


WTF! Can't read the facts, or did I miss somethin'.

Last Edited by DeadBeacon on 06/27/2012 07:42 PM
:Canadian F::State of Texas:

"Misunderestimating is only 5/4 th's of the problem"!

"Some choose to hear, few decide to listen".

"Question what you know and know why you question".

"GLP will never be the sane...uhhh...same".

"The markets will determine the fate of government intervention, not government intervening in the market".
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1465364
United States
06/27/2012 07:43 PM
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Re: You don't know SHIT about ObamaCare.......
All I know is starting next year under this plan, FORCED microchip implanting would begin-I believe that is on page 1142 or near there.
And...that there is to be a "civilian defence force" "equaly armed AND funded" as our current military. iow- brown-shirt army.

Both of those thing will be fought heartily by true Americans if this is not defeated.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
06/27/2012 07:44 PM
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Re: You don't know SHIT about ObamaCare.......
[link to townhall.com]
Bluebird

User ID: 730536
United States
06/27/2012 07:47 PM
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Re: You don't know SHIT about ObamaCare.......
And the whole thing will be enforced by ARMED IRS agents.
One of the most important aspects of conspiracy theories is being able to discern when there isn't one.

Oh yeah, like you'd understand anyway.

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?. . .J. Handy
DeadBeacon  (OP)

User ID: 17611429
United States
06/27/2012 07:50 PM
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Re: You don't know SHIT about ObamaCare.......
And the whole thing will be enforced by ARMED IRS agents.
 Quoting: Bluebird


What was the number.....113,000+/-. Get a bigger hammer, I guess.
:Canadian F::State of Texas:

"Misunderestimating is only 5/4 th's of the problem"!

"Some choose to hear, few decide to listen".

"Question what you know and know why you question".

"GLP will never be the sane...uhhh...same".

"The markets will determine the fate of government intervention, not government intervening in the market".
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6615021
United States
07/07/2012 04:06 AM
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Re: You don't know SHIT about ObamaCare.......
Okay, Obamacare explained like you're a five year-old (well, okay, maybe a bit older), without too much oversimplification, and (hopefully) without sounding too biased:

What people call "Obamacare" is actually the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. However, people were calling it "Obamacare" before everyone even hammered out what it would be. It's a term mostly used by people who don't like the PPACA, and it's become popularized in part because PPACA is a really long and awkward name, even when you turn it into an acronym like that.

Anyway, the PPACA made a bunch of new rules regarding health care, with the purpose of making health care more affordable for everyone. Opponents of the PPACA, on the other hand, feel that the rules it makes take away too many freedoms and force people (both individuals and businesses) to do things they shouldn't have to.

So what does it do? Well, here is everything, in the order of when it goes into effect (because some of it happens later than other parts of it):

Already in effect:

It allows the Food and Drug Administration to approve more generic drugs (making for more competition in the market to drive down prices)

It increases the rebates on drugs people get through Medicare (so drugs cost less)

It establishes a non-profit group, that the government doesn't directly control, PCORI, to study different kinds of treatments to see what works better and is the best use of money. ( Citation: Page 665, sec. 1181 )

It makes chain restaurants like McDonalds display how many calories are in all of their foods, so people can have an easier time making choices to eat healthy. ( Citation: Page 499, sec. 4205 )

It makes a "high-risk pool" for people with pre-existing conditions. Basically, this is a way to slowly ease into getting rid of "pre-existing conditions" altogether. For now, people who already have health issues that would be considered "pre-existing conditions" can still get insurance, but at different rates than people without them.

It renews some old policies, and calls for the appointment of various positions.

It creates a new 10% tax on indoor tanning booths. ( Citation: Page 923, sec. 5000B )

It says that health insurance companies can no longer tell customers that they won't get any more coverage because they have hit a "lifetime limit". Basically, if someone has paid for health insurance, that company can't tell that person that he's used that insurance too much throughout his life so they won't cover him any more. They can't do this for lifetime spending, and they're limited in how much they can do this for yearly spending. ( Citation: Page 14, sec. 2711 )

Kids can continue to be covered by their parents' health insurance until they're 26.

No more "pre-existing conditions" for kids under the age of 19.

Insurers have less ability to change the amount customers have to pay for their plans.

People in a "Medicare Gap" get a rebate to make up for the extra money they would otherwise have to spend.

Insurers can't just drop customers once they get sick. ( Citation: Page 14, sec. 2712 )

Insurers have to tell customers what they're spending money on. (Instead of just "administrative fee", they have to be more specific).

Insurers need to have an appeals process for when they turn down a claim, so customers have some manner of recourse other than a lawsuit when they're turned down.

New ways to stop fraud are created.

Medicare extends to smaller hospitals.

Medicare patients with chronic illnesses must be monitored more thoroughly.

Reduces the costs for some companies that handle benefits for the elderly.

A new website is made to give people insurance and health information. (I think this is it: [link to www.healthcare.gov] ).

A credit program is made that will make it easier for business to invest in new ways to treat illness.

A limit is placed on just how much of a percentage of the money an insurer makes can be profit, to make sure they're not price-gouging customers.

A limit is placed on what type of insurance accounts can be used to pay for over-the-counter drugs without a prescription. Basically, your insurer isn't paying for the Aspirin you bought for that hangover.

Employers need to list the benefits they provided to employees on their tax forms.

8/1/2012

Any health plans sold after this date must provide preventative care (mammograms, colonoscopies, etc.) without requiring any sort of co-pay or charge.

1/1/2013

If you make over $200,000 a year, your taxes go up a tiny bit (0.9%). Edit: To address those who take issue with the word "tiny", a change of 0.9% is relatively tiny. Any look at how taxes have fluctuated over the years will reveal that a change of less than one percent is miniscule, especially when we're talking about people in the top 5% of earners.

1/1/2014

This is when a lot of the really big changes happen.

No more "pre-existing conditions". At all. People will be charged the same regardless of their medical history.

If you can afford insurance but do not get it, you will be charged a fee. This is the "mandate" that people are talking about. Basically, it's a trade-off for the "pre-existing conditions" bit, saying that since insurers now have to cover you regardless of what you have, you can't just wait to buy insurance until you get sick. Otherwise no one would buy insurance until they needed it. You can opt not to get insurance, but you'll have to pay the fee instead, unless of course you're not buying insurance because you just can't afford it.

Insurers now can't do annual spending caps. Their customers can get as much health care in a given year as they need. ( Citation: Page 14, sec. 2711 )

Make it so more poor people can get Medicaid by making the low-income cut-off higher.

Small businesses get some tax credits for two years.

Businesses with over 50 employees must offer health insurance to full-time employees, or pay a penalty.

Limits how high of an annual deductible insurers can charge customers.

Cut some Medicare spending

Place a $2500 limit on tax-free spending on FSAs (accounts for medical spending). Basically, people using these accounts now have to pay taxes on any money over $2500 they put into them.

Establish health insurance exchanges and rebates for the lower and middle-class, basically making it so they have an easier time getting affordable medical coverage.

Congress and Congressional staff will only be offered the same insurance offered to people in the insurance exchanges, rather than Federal Insurance. Basically, we won't be footing their health care bills any more than any other American citizen.

A new tax on pharmaceutical companies.

A new tax on the purchase of medical devices.

A new tax on insurance companies based on their market share. Basically, the more of the market they control, the more they'll get taxed.

The amount you can deduct from your taxes for medical expenses increases.

1/1/2015

Doctors' pay will be determined by the quality of their care, not how many people they treat. Edit: a_real_MD addresses questions regarding this one in far more detail and with far more expertise than I can offer in this post. If you're looking for a more in-depth explanation of this one (as many of you are), I highly recommend you give his post a read.

1/1/2017

If any state can come up with their own plan, one which gives citizens the same level of care at the same price as the PPACA, they can ask the Secretary of Health and Human Resources for permission to do their plan instead of the PPACA. So if they can get the same results without, say, the mandate, they can be allowed to do so. Vermont, for example, has expressed a desire to just go straight to single-payer (in simple terms, everyone is covered, and medical expenses are paid by taxpayers).

2018

All health care plans must now cover preventative care (not just the new ones).

A new tax on "Cadillac" health care plans (more expensive plans for rich people who want fancier coverage).

2020

The elimination of the "Medicare gap"

.

Aaaaand that's it right there.

The biggest thing opponents of the bill have against it is the mandate. They claim that it forces people to buy insurance, and forcing people to buy something is unconstitutional. Personally, I take the opposite view, as it's not telling people to buy a specific thing, just to have a specific type of thing, just like a part of the money we pay in taxes pays for the police and firemen who protect us, this would have us paying to ensure doctors can treat us for illness and injury.

Plus, as previously mentioned, it's necessary if you're doing away with "pre-existing conditions" because otherwise no one would get insurance until they needed to use it, which defeats the purpose of insurance.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18683884


And that supposes you've actually read the 2,700-plus page bill, and can speak of the regulatory monstrosity with total clarity? If so, you're well ahead of EVERY member of Congress - who admits, didn't even write the bill - and doesn't know what the hell is in it! The buffoon President didn't write one sentence of the bill, and couldn't tell you what the hell is in it, either! For that genius, you just fire up the teleprompter and tell "Forest" to "Read these lines"! And he obliges with, "Alright, then"! I'm sorry, but that doesn't equal Healthcare Reform in the U.S. And, another thing, if Obamacare is so great - and the focus is really as they say - insuring approximately 30-45 million "uninsured" [Americans], then why would ANYBODY be exempt from this "mandate" = TAX? The President, his family, Congress - and members of their families are all exempt. Also, the President has given over 2,000 [WAIVERS] to such big businesses as McDonalds, GE, and others. Why the hell is anyone - corporation, or no, exempt from this TAX mandate? Why? Because it's corporate fascism, pure and simple. If you play by Obama's Marxist delusions, you get a free pass. And, everyone else, "F" you! You pay! Sorry to bust your bubbles, all you socialist/delusional morons, but nothing in the [mandate] adds up. If so, as I eluded to earlier in this post, if you've actually read - and UNDERSTAND - all 2,700 pages of regulations, then feel free to post them, not only here, but also on White House.gov, because I can guarantee that Teleprompter-reading fool couldn't spell real healthcare if it blotted out his cigarette!
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07/07/2012 04:10 AM

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Re: You don't know SHIT about ObamaCare.......
....and neither do I. Here's the best I've found about the cost to families and small business.

[link to www.atr.org]
 Quoting: DeadBeacon


ovomitcare calculator

see how much it'll cost YOU
[link to www.washingtonpost.com]
political correctness is a doctrine.... fostered by a delusional, illogical minority...... and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media; which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.





GLP