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AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!

 
asgardhr
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User ID: 46974
United States
12/14/2005 05:46 PM
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AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
Not.

It was founded on invasion, exploitation, and treason.

The Constitution is largely rhetorical. It didn't stop the draft, for one. The so-called freedoms declared in it are highly conditional, and malleable according to the whims of those who rule.

The core is rotten. And our bad karma is coming back around.
Freyja

User ID: 3454
United States
12/14/2005 05:53 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
This does not sound like you:

bad karma coming around.

wtf


Karma????
asgardhr  (OP)

User ID: 46974
United States
12/14/2005 06:02 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
Simple cause and effect...what goes around comes around.

You know, core Intent. Not the cosmetic dressing that is called 'America'. What is underneath that.

And which so many Americans refuse to look at honestly.
Sophia

User ID: 23
New Zealand
12/14/2005 06:04 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
A Constitution

A piece of paper written by white middle-class (or higher) men to wax lyrical on behalf of working class people, women, blacks, indians... none of whom were included in its writing.


It's right up there with the cloth known as a "flag"

Both have had thousands die in their names... paper and cloth. Go figure.

American is not alone is this kind of worship designed to control individuals from being, well, individuals...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2226
United States
12/14/2005 06:04 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
ok a**hole, you gotta better plan? I would like to hear it.
Sophia

User ID: 23
New Zealand
12/14/2005 06:06 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
Asgh

Some months ago there were threads abounding about white america's misgivings about what they call "illegals" (Mexicans)

I suggested, with only partial tongue in cheek (top cheek) that perhaps it was ironice that modern white americans were expressing feelings which MUST have been expressed by Native Americans a couple of hundred years ago.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2226
United States
12/14/2005 06:06 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
You know, what BS. There is more individual freedom here than anywhere. The men who wrote the constitution believed in it. Name one country that does it better.

There is the third world, the second world, the first world and then there is the U.S.A. Thia is what a German man told me.
Sinanju nli
User ID: 3486
United States
12/14/2005 06:09 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
Well!

In that case.. You still possess the greatest freedom that an American has.

The freedom to leave.
constitutionist
User ID: 6340
United States
12/14/2005 06:09 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
"The Constitution is largely rhetorical. It didn't stop the draft, for one. The so-called freedoms declared in it are highly conditional, and malleable according to the whims of those who rule."

the only reason it could be considered a rhetorical document with highly conditional freedoms is the fact that modern americans don't have enough self-respect to defend it. instead they allow corrupt leaders to usurp power and dilute the pure freedom that the constitution defines. the constitution, esp. the BILL OF RIGHTS, is a wonderful document... just as TJ said, it is a list of the natural freedoms gauranteed to all sentient beings on the planet... just because corrupt leaders choose not to follow them does not make them any less true, it just mean people are being oppressed.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 51479
United States
12/14/2005 06:10 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
The Czars suck.
Sophia

User ID: 23
New Zealand
12/14/2005 06:12 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
Notice how I wrote "a constitution" yet some of you refer to "The Constitution"

ANY country which uses an archane piece of paper and a piece of cloth to manipulate high emotions to engender killing and oppression is not about freedom...

America doesn't have a monopoly on "freedom". There are plenty of countries which have as good or better systems than America, systems which also attempt to allow freedom.

New Zealand is one, and yes, this country was british colonised, and Maori were murdered and land confiscated. Redress has been made in recent decades and continues today by gifting back of land and money to tribes.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 4602
Canada
12/14/2005 06:13 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
LOL sinanju, no you don't. You can no longer buy a plane ticket to a foreign country without buying return. And if you can leave, where do you go? Who will have you?
Sophia

User ID: 23
New Zealand
12/14/2005 06:13 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
Pieces of paper, like contracts are worthless. What matters is the actions of people in its name.

The Constitution, as you call it , is neither great nor bad, what people do, using it as a reason is what is "good or bad".
Sinanju nli
User ID: 3486
United States
12/14/2005 06:14 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
And how long had NZ had a constitutional government?

When the goathumpers in NZ reach over 200 years, give me a call.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 5631
United States
12/14/2005 06:15 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
FREEDOM or FREEMASONRY?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2226
United States
12/14/2005 06:15 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
>>>New Zealand is one, and yes, this country was british colonised, and Maori were murdered and land confiscated. Redress has been made in recent decades and continues today by gifting back of land and money to tribes.<<<

mmmkay. Gifting back land huh? Sounds like Great Britain was one big A**hole back then.
Sinanju nli
User ID: 3486
United States
12/14/2005 06:15 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
"LOL sinanju, no you don't. You can no longer buy a plane ticket to a foreign country without buying return. And if you can leave, where do you go? Who will have you?"

Get in your car, moron. Drive to a state that borders Mexico, idiot. Cross the border, jenius.

Well, looks like you just got debunked.
Freyja

User ID: 3454
United States
12/14/2005 06:15 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
I guess I'll just keep my polly anna ass out of this one.
asgardhr  (OP)

User ID: 46974
United States
12/14/2005 06:42 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
>>> ok a**hole, you gotta better plan? I would like to hear it. <<<

2226 - talk like yur from Texas. One thing I would do is draw a line from Texas to Florida and call that another country, and you all can proselytize yurselves from here to kingdom come.

But really, of course I have a plan. It is called Ragnarok. As for the details, I think that we shall have to see what Nature wants.
asgardhr  (OP)

User ID: 46974
United States
12/14/2005 06:44 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
>>> Well!

In that case.. You still possess the greatest freedom that an American has.

The freedom to leave. <<<


You republicans have such a small collection of ideas, a book with one page in it.
asgardhr  (OP)

User ID: 46974
United States
12/14/2005 06:47 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
>>> the only reason it could be considered a rhetorical document with highly conditional freedoms is the fact that modern americans don't have enough self-respect to defend it. instead they allow corrupt leaders to usurp power and dilute the pure freedom that the constitution defines. the constitution, esp. the BILL OF RIGHTS, is a wonderful document... just as TJ said, it is a list of the natural freedoms gauranteed to all sentient beings on the planet... just because corrupt leaders choose not to follow them does not make them any less true, it just mean people are being oppressed. <<<

Yes. But none of this nullifies what has been done to create this nation. We, like so many other 'nations' have ridden rough-shod over this planet and each other. That is not a good foundation. And it IS coming apart.
asgardhr  (OP)

User ID: 46974
United States
12/14/2005 06:48 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
>>> The Czars suck. <<<<

51479 - Now, that is funny!
asgardhr  (OP)

User ID: 46974
United States
12/14/2005 06:50 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
>>> I guess I'll just keep my polly anna ass out of this one. <<<

Freyja - Your ass is always welcomed [and admired].
Sinanju nli
User ID: 3486
United States
12/14/2005 06:53 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
"You republicans have such a small collection of ideas, a book with one page in it."

I am not a rethuglican, Mr. Marxist.

But I would rather have a single sheet of ideas than be hoodwinked into following the communist manifesto.

This is the part where you insist you are not a marxist.

Allow me to launch a preemptive strike..

"I am not a Marxist." -Karl Marx.

Just so you do not forget.. I will repeat myself.

I would rather have a single sheet of ideas than be hoodwinked into following the communist manifesto.

Marxist.
Freyja

User ID: 3454
United States
12/14/2005 06:53 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
butt


tank you
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 53287
Puerto Rico
12/14/2005 06:55 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
French did first ...

slavery ...

Puerto Rico abolished it first ..

US just Merchandized it better ..

muaha
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 14129
United Kingdom
12/14/2005 06:59 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
"New Zealand is one, and yes, this country was british colonised, and Maori were murdered and land confiscated. Redress has been made in recent decades and continues today by gifting back of land and money to tribes."

Hmmmm..... No; there has been no redress. People were killed, lives were ruined, the Maori are still ruled by outsiders.

If someone killed your children while stealing your creditcards, would you feel the deaths had been redressed if your credit cards were returned?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 14129
United Kingdom
12/14/2005 07:43 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
From the the way this thread has halted, it looks like the poster who asked;

"Is it true, people like lies and sugar coating more than they like the truth?"

Has had his/her question answered...
Sophia

User ID: 23
New Zealand
12/14/2005 07:45 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
"attempted" redress then. Money and land has been accepted as a gesture of apology for past wrongs.

As a side note, I would enjoy a poll of all maori in Newd Zealand, not just those on the Maori roll, to get a feel for the general feeling. Our media don't have the balls or the will for such an investigation methinks.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 53431
Australia
12/14/2005 07:51 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
Shinaju or whatever ya name is you are a moron.

everyone knows Kiwis fuck sheep not goats.

If the rest of your arguements have the same regard for accuracy, then you are screwed.

I don't live in America and I am as free as you.

I do what I choose when I choose based on what I decide.

Despite our wanna be fascist govt I still live free.

You either decide to be free or you decide to be the citizen of a state run entity, one that is not the land you live on.

Freedom doesn't come from a piece of paper or anything else, it comes from you choosing your actions.

Even people who are "not free" are simply choosing to live that way.

As for Marxism, well if he said the world was divided into the power of labour and the power of capital then I am on the side of labour any day.

If that is evil communism, fine I will make a similar candy arsed generalisation and say that all capital is the equivalent of one giant psychic vampire sucking the energy and products of people that actually work so the fat arsed rich muthas that run these businesses can get fatter and do less hard work.

There you go one shit generalisation for another.
Sophia

User ID: 23
New Zealand
12/14/2005 07:53 PM
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Re: AMERICA was Founded on FREEDOM!
Is it truly a choice between marxism and...?

Only two choices? That doesn't seem like freedom to me.





GLP