Godlike Productions - Discussion Forum
Users Online Now: 1,311 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 158,057
Pageviews Today: 316,909Threads Today: 193Posts Today: 3,101
05:17 AM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 38479
United States
12/19/2005 12:16 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
bum[
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 9348
United States
12/19/2005 12:35 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
First, they have to denounce Christianity as I have. Then there's a chance they might find the Truth.
Que

User ID: 51504
United States
12/19/2005 12:36 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
"If" you are wearing white stay away from the mud
"Lord Jesus...let the light of Your face & LOVE shine down on our hearts and let us** FEEL** it...."
[email protected]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 5392
Canada
12/19/2005 12:52 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
In the final analysis I'm not sure that being on one side of the fence or the other is critical. I again state that I don't live in fear that I will fall from grace. "In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our tresspasses" is something I could never deny.

Agree to disagree, brother?
**************************************
We can disagree on many things but the truth stands as truth in spite of what we believe to be true. And we are all at different levels of maturity in coming to the fulness and stature of Christ. It is the work of the Holy Spirit on each individual that progresses us into the stature of Christ's fulness, not our own endeavers.

But in the final analysis I see the side of the fence we are on as a dividing factor between love and pride, or trusting in our self-works of righteousness and ability to be obedient instead of complete trust and faith in Christ's righteousness. I personally don't see it possible to avoid the reality of Jesus in my life and even though I could deny Him with my lips, my heart and spirit know different making it impossible to deny the substance of Him that He has given me. Peter himself denied Christ in his hour, but never ceased to be one of the Lord's chosen. And even though the Shepherd was struck and the sheep were scattered, He lost not one except Judas, and that was only to fulfill the prophecy.
So how does one judge when one has departed from God's love, I would certainly consider all the disciples to have fallen away when they were scattered because of His death, by the outer appearance of what manifested in the physical in their lives, but Jesus says different and didn't consider them fallen from Him in any way.


Romans 8

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?

32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.

34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written:


“ For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”

37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.

38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,

39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
TRAINED FOR THIS

User ID: 19962
United States
12/19/2005 01:18 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
I promised earlier that I would explain the difference between salvation and eternal life. I have returned from church and will explain at this time. A person can NEVER lose their salvation BUT they can miss the opportunity for ETERNAL LIFE.

To help understand the difference between salvation and eternal life I will use the example of a wrecking yard/junk yard/ auto recycling yard.

At a wrecking yard the attempt is to SAVE as much as possible before they destroy the car. Those parts that have been SAVED or have been salvaged or received SALVATION are given a SECOND CHANCE. Now just because these parts have salvation that does not mean that they will be used eternally.

When Jesus died and was resurrected, He made it possible for all of mankind to be restored back to the original position before the fall of Adam. You can accept His salvation or you may reject it. If it is rejected there is NO opportunity for eternal life. On the other hand if you accept this salvation made possible by Jesus then you have been given the OPPORTUNITY for eternal life. This eternal life is predicated upon how you deal with your salvation. If treated properly, this salvation can cause for one to have the opportunity of an eternal life time. If treated improperly, You would have been saved, and given SALVATION on this junk yard called earth, but would not be able to reap the benefits of salvation which includes ETERNAL LIFE. Even lukewarm Christian will have a problem. Jesus has said that because they are LUKEWARM that He will SPUE them out of His mouth. Now as long as you are in the MOUTH of Jesus Christ, you are in the BODY of Jesus Christ. However if you are spewed out of His mouth, you are no longer in the body and will not reap the benefit called ETERNAL LIFE.

Thanks for reading…………..
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 5392
Canada
12/19/2005 01:36 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
This eternal life is predicated upon how you deal with your salvation. If treated properly, this salvation can cause for one to have the opportunity of an eternal life time. If treated improperly, You would have been saved, and given SALVATION on this junk yard called earth, but would not be able to reap the benefits of salvation which includes ETERNAL LIFE.
**************************************

Trained for this

What type of church have you been receiving your spiritual food?


John 3:14-16
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,

15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.


1 John 5:10-12

10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son.

11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.


1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 5392
Canada
12/19/2005 01:55 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
A person can NEVER lose their salvation BUT they can miss the opportunity for ETERNAL LIFE.
************************************

How is it possible that the theif on the cross had eternal life? Did he have time to treat his salvation properly? And what do you mean by treating salvation properly?
Please explain as I am having difficulty understanding what you mean.
TRAINED FOR THIS (NLI)
User ID: 19962
United States
12/19/2005 03:28 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
5392

"How is it possible that the theif on the cross had eternal life? Did he have time to treat his salvation properly? And what do you mean by treating salvation properly?
Please explain as I am having difficulty understanding what you mean."

REPLY: Remember the sons of God in Genesis 6. Those with salvation and even those who did not need salvation because they were "ALREADY" sons of God (we have been given the power to become sons of God) can FALL from their position. This is because God still allows free will after salvation.

Thanks for asking..........
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 5392
Canada
12/19/2005 11:06 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
REPLY: Remember the sons of God in Genesis 6. Those with salvation and even those who did not need salvation because they were "ALREADY" sons of God (we have been given the power to become sons of God) can FALL from their position. This is because God still allows free will after salvation.

**************************************

Trained for This

That seems all well and good but one thing is amiss in your theory, which is all it is , and a false one at that, Because it is not the free will of man that chooses to be a Son of God.


John 1
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 54916
United States
12/19/2005 11:15 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
This is because God still allows free will after salvation.

------------------

Very true.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 54965
12/19/2005 02:08 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
That seems all well and good but one thing is amiss in your theory, which is all it is , and a false one at that, Because it is not the free will of man that chooses to be a Son of God.


John 1
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
*****************************************

This is still a choice of FREE WILL to RECEIVE, which can be rejected by the individual.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 55010
12/19/2005 04:37 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
Responding to Zacksavage on first page:

"But AFTER Jesus returns, ALL will have a chance to follow God."

Is he coming by bus, train,...or plane?
********

Try a CLOUD!

Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a CLOUD received him out of their sight.

Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Its amazing how the bible so easily answers questions.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 5392
Canada
12/19/2005 08:10 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
Free will is over-rated in my opinion

Romans 6:16-18


16 Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted.

18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 53850
Canada
12/19/2005 08:58 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
>>But in the final analysis I see the side of the fence we are on as a dividing factor between love and pride, or trusting in our self-works of righteousness and ability to be obedient instead of complete trust and faith in Christ's righteousness.<<

Friend:

I utterly respect you for your dedication to the Lord Jesus Christ and your zeal for His Word and Truth.

This is why I am perplexed with your response to my suggestion to "agree to disagree".

Are you saying that because I think a Christian can lose their salvation that I am "trusting in self-works of righteousness and ability to be obedient"? I have stated repeatedly that I believe we are saved by grace, through faith, and works are a result of a Spirit led life. More than once I said the issue was a person stopping believing in the atonement. Without faith it is impossible to please Him.

If I had to rely on self-righteousness I would never attain the kingdom. All my righteousness is as filthy rags.

In a way it is disheartening to hear the implication that I lack maturity because I disagree with you. I know, you will say that the truth is the truth, and I am not so much disagreeing with you, but with the Bible.

I for my part find your discourse to be mature and sound, I just don't agree with your conclusions.

"Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we shall be. We know that, when He appears, we shall be like Him, because we shall see Him just as He is. And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure."

That is my where hope is fixed. And yours to I know.

Peace, as always, in Jesus Christ, our Lord.
Que

User ID: 51504
United States
12/19/2005 09:05 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
AC 5392 I pretty much agree with you....
"Lord Jesus...let the light of Your face & LOVE shine down on our hearts and let us** FEEL** it...."
[email protected]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 5392
Canada
12/19/2005 09:44 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
In a way it is disheartening to hear the implication that I lack maturity because I disagree with you. I know, you will say that the truth is the truth, and I am not so much disagreeing with you, but with the Bible.

***************************************

53850

I by no means was implying that I was more mature in Christ than you were. I apologize if my remark came across in a judgemental way because I didn't mean it to. I was just stating that in Christ we will all be unified as one, but until that transpiries we each will experience our walk in different ways and God deals with each of us on the level we are at and in His timing. How I wish I was at the level of full maturity, but I have many thorns in my side as well that are there reminding me to be more humble than I am at this time. But even in the experiencing of my thorns I rejoice because I know who holds my life in His hands and is going to complete the work that He started. And He will complete this work with all who have been touched by His love.

I have no idea how the Lord has been working in your life to bring you closer to the unity that He will work, nor do I know how you began in His Spirit. I know what He has done to me, and as far as any credit, well I suppose I could be credited for my rebelliousness but that's about all.
I have been born of the Spirit for 26 years, lots of ups and down, and lots of miracles. But as I sit here today, I can only credit the Lord for all things and give nothing to myself as credit to any obedience I may have displayed in my life to God.

I look at the disciples, and at Paul.
Paul for example was struck by the Lord on the road to Damascus and blinded. Not your typical alter call where one sees there need for a Savior and has remorse for their sin. No record of a "sinners prayer" as is so popular in evangelism today. But that doesn't mean that they did not confess their faults to Jesus to be forgiven. Pauls' conversion I can relate to as is simular to mine, The Spirit of God came to visit me and I cried out to Jesus, and I was transformed inwardly at the very moment. From that moment tto now, it was all about learning to trust in His righteousness and not my own.
So when I see any hint of man bearing a yoke of any kind, and attempting to teach others to do the same, I see the merit being shifted to man's doing and not God's.

Peace 53850 I can see His hand is on your life, and I am confident that you will never lose your salvation that He has given as a free gift to you. I don't see how a free gift can take any merit on man's part to be earned that's all.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 54916
United States
12/19/2005 09:54 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
Free will is over-rated in my opinion




The angels have free will, Jesus has free will, Adam and Eve had free will and so do we. God does not create robots.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 5392
Canada
12/19/2005 10:05 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
The angels have free will, Jesus has free will, Adam and Eve had free will and so do we. God does not create robots.
**************************************

Not an arguement here, but for discussion sakes, the only time that freewill is mentioned in the Scriptures as far as I know is when it comes to make a sacrifice or offering to the Lord. As far as sin goes there is nothing that credits freewill towards sin, but the contrary, sin is done out of being a slave to unrighteousness.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 5392
Canada
12/19/2005 10:11 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
I would also like to add that all mankind are sinners by birth and not by choice.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 54916
United States
12/19/2005 10:12 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
nothing that credits freewill towards sin




Eve had free will when she deliberately ate the fruit God told her to stay away from and then Adam followed her making them sinners. That sin led to their death and the eventual death of all their offspring. Enter Jesus whose death frees us.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 54916
United States
12/19/2005 10:14 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
Yes, we are sinners from birth. That is why we get sick and die. But we can decide to not deliberately sin such as stealing, murdering, fornicating etc. Those are sins that we can do something about. But no matter, we are sinners in need of Jesus' shed blood.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 54916
United States
12/19/2005 10:17 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
Also, we will always have free will. God will never take away our choice to choose. He didn't make the angels or Adam and Eve serve Him and He won't make us. We want to serve Him just like Jesus wanted to serve Him. He wants our love. He doesn't want to make us love Him. No loving father would make his child love him. Satan is the one who would like to turn us into mindless robots. God, who is love, would never do that to us.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 5392
Canada
12/19/2005 10:26 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
No loving father would make his child love him.
***************************************

I agree with your post.
And that is why the greatest commandment of the Old Covenant is writen on the hearts of those who have His Spirit by the New Covenant....

Psalm 23

1 The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want.
2 He makes me lie down in green pastures,
he leads me beside quiet waters,

3 he restores my soul.
He guides me in paths of righteousness
for his name's sake.

4 Even though I walk
through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil,
for you are with me;
your rod and your staff,
they comfort me.

5 You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows.

6 Surely goodness and love will follow me
all the days of my life,
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD
forever.
SHEEP

User ID: 53850
Canada
12/19/2005 10:35 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
>>I was just stating that in Christ we will all be unified as one, but until that transpiries we each will experience our walk in different ways and God deals with each of us on the level we are at and in His timing.<<

Friend:

No offence taken.

The part I copied from your post is so true. Thats why I quoted from 1John 3: 2-3 (about not knowing what we will be like) We see in part and know in part.

Became Christian at 19 years old, in the days of drug culture and Jesus Freaks.

Different subject: Why, do you think, is there an endless stream of people in these threads that profess Christ and then judge me to hell, call me pagan if I break some LAW that they feel proves I'm not born again.

I just signed up on the weekend so I am new to this and while I expected just about anything I am suprised by the amount of legalism.

Your thoughts?

Your brother and new friend, Sheep.
Where the eagle glides ascending
There's an ancient river bending
Down the timeless gorge of changes
Where sleeplessness awaits.
SHEEP

User ID: 53850
Canada
12/19/2005 10:38 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
>>mark
john
luke
mary
timothy
bartholomew
"saint george"<<

I don't catch your drift. Is it because we missed Paul and Ringo?
Where the eagle glides ascending
There's an ancient river bending
Down the timeless gorge of changes
Where sleeplessness awaits.
TRAINED FOR THIS

User ID: 19962
United States
12/19/2005 10:44 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
Userid: 5392

Trained for This

That seems all well and good but one thing is amiss in your theory, which is all it is , and a false one at that, Because it is not the free will of man that chooses to be a Son of God.


John 1
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God
****************************

REPLY: Time will soon reveal that the words afore mentioned are not of theory. Secondly, the verses you reference to prove that free will is not involved actually prove free will is involved. Notice that only those who RECEIVED him (by choice) were given the right to become children of God. The emphasis of verse 13 is to point to the fact that the BIRTH itself is NOT a physical one of flesh and blood; nor is the BIRTH of the will of man but of the SPIRIT. However, the DECISION or DESIRE for this spiritual BIRTH is freely from the individual and not in any way forced upon humanity by God.

Thanks for the scripture..........
Kay
User ID: 1179
United States
12/19/2005 10:46 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
Sheep, I always considered that parable to be about those who hear the gospel. The first hears it but it goes in one ear and out the other.

The second group hears it, but the cares of the world crowd out the message, so that it never gets planted in their heart - as in the thought processes that go on in someone's mind when they struggle with whether or not they will receive the message.

But the third group hears it, repents and receives it in their heart with faith, which of course leads to a new creation being birthed in that person's life.

In other words, I don't think they accept Christ then walk away. I think this parable is about how the heart receives the message.
Cellar Door

User ID: 2996
United States
12/19/2005 10:49 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
respectful question

what do you DO with eternal life?

describe a typical 'day'
SHEEP

User ID: 53850
Canada
12/19/2005 10:52 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
Kay:

Thankyou for taking the time to respond to my post about the Sower.

Right at this moment I'm just glad that He took the time to sow, others took the time to water, and He saved my useless butt.
Where the eagle glides ascending
There's an ancient river bending
Down the timeless gorge of changes
Where sleeplessness awaits.
Kay
User ID: 1179
United States
12/19/2005 10:52 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
This eternal life is predicated upon how you deal with your salvation. If treated properly, this salvation can cause for one to have the opportunity of an eternal life time. If treated improperly, You would have been saved, and given SALVATION on this junk yard called earth, but would not be able to reap the benefits of salvation which includes ETERNAL LIFE.


==================

Yes, well there have been many who have tried to say what exactly this means! Many!

So tell me, what is the crux of the matter then?

It could be obedience to a particular set of rules, confessing of sins, forgiving others, submission to the Holy Spirit, it could be any number of things, couldn't it?





GLP