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Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??

 
Kay
User ID: 1179
United States
12/19/2005 10:53 PM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
Well, Sheep, one thing I have found is that we are constantly watering, and know this, no word of God comes back void. So, we keep toiling!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 5392
Canada
12/19/2005 10:56 PM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
Different subject: Why, do you think, is there an endless stream of people in these threads that profess Christ and then judge me to hell, call me pagan if I break some LAW that they feel proves I'm not born again.

*************************************

Some belong to religious organizations that teach these doctrines, others form opinions from the standpoint of their measure of righteousness. However it is not only in these threads on this forum, but also in the world we live in..
I believe the crux of the matter is that all philosophies, religions, and even atheistic views ( and there are zillions) have evolved from the knowledge tree of good and evil. The mindset of man is born into the world and is of the world. The world teaches rewards for good deeds, it is implanted in a child from birth, through the years of being a toddler we are taught right from wrong and rewarded and punished according to our actions. Then in the school years we are rewarded with good grades if we study and apply ourselves and bad grades if we don't. Then in the workforce as an adult the same world system of doing good work gets promotions and raises while being a sackard gets one fired. This is the way of the world and is reliant upon the self's ability to fulfill a task to receive a reward.

Many never escape this mindset of the world, in fact the only way to escape this is through grace. As grace is the only remedy that opposes the self's ability to perform. Grace is the opposite of merit through self's accomplishments, God's ways are not man's ways. In grace we get what we never deserved nor earned. We are given holiness and righteousness because of Christ and His deeds. the tree of life is all about selflessness, and not meriting any favor through works, but only through faith, which is also a gift from God to grant us salvation.

All philosophies teach that perfection is attained by man's work, many religions place the same yoke upon their followers and even Atheists have their own stabdard of righteousness that they live and judge others by. There is no escape from the root of the knowledge tree of good and evil, until someone dies to themselves and their own merit, and this is only posssible by having another standard of righteoousness to replace our own measure. The only one who can offer us this is Christ. There are no other sacrifices in any other religions that can do this, nor will there ever be.

When someone is trusting completely in Christ's righteousness as their free gift from Him, then they no longer can judge any one else because their standard of righteousness has been removed. And their own righteousness is not credited to themselves, so they can not boast about it or be judgemental to others.

Does this make sense???
Kay
User ID: 1179
United States
12/19/2005 11:03 PM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
You know, we are talking theory here, and in theory, I would say that a Christian can possibly lose their salvation, I suppose if pressed to answer.

But in practicality, it is a different matter. I know that after walking with the Lord for about 10 years, I had some disappointment, and I pretty much turned toward another path - started to look out for myself (which in reality meant that I went to work for my atheist mother after being at home with the kids for 13 years). And when I ran her business I had to be pretty cutthroat. You know what? The Lord really made me come back. He really did. My mom died within a couple of years and the Lord just closed all the doors, then brought me some very ironic miracles which I interpreted as 'Come on home, now.' And, I don't think I would have done it on my own. The Lord did it.

So, in reality, you know, He does leave the 99 sheep to go out and bring in the lost one sheep. He does do that. I can tell you from experience.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1179
United States
12/19/2005 11:06 PM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
It's interesting you say this, because I was talking to my sister and her daughter about Christianity today and we touched on this:


When someone is trusting completely in Christ's righteousness as their free gift from Him, then they no longer can judge any one else because their standard of righteousness has been removed. And their own righteousness is not credited to themselves, so they can not boast about it or be judgemental to others.

Does this make sense???

===============

Except what we were saying is that you must forgive others because since it is a free gift, and you are forgiven with no works involved, you must forgive others. You have no basis with which to withold any forgiveness. Same idea.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 5392
Canada
12/19/2005 11:09 PM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
Kay I appreciate your honesty, but I would guarantee that He never left you during these times, hoe could He, He chose you from the foundation of the world's beginning. Just because a Christian loses their hope and faith and turns to the world for answers to what hey think they desire. does not mean that the Lord is not purposing this for the greater good of His plan for you.
SHEEP

User ID: 53850
Canada
12/19/2005 11:12 PM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
>> And their own righteousness is not credited to themselves, so they can not boast about it or be judgemental to others.

Does this make sense???<<

Yes perfect sense. It seems elementary to me that I shouldn't judge when I read "Therefore you are without excuse every man of you who passes judgement, for in that you judge another, you condemn yourself, for you who judge practise the same things"

It seems like anytime you mention freedom in Christ a lot of messages come in accusing me of thinking I am free to do anything I like, so I must not be Christian.

Oh, you foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you?

Oops, Jesus said don't call anyone a fool so I must not be Christian.
Where the eagle glides ascending
There's an ancient river bending
Down the timeless gorge of changes
Where sleeplessness awaits.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 5392
Canada
12/19/2005 11:13 PM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
Except what we were saying is that you must forgive others because since it is a free gift, and you are forgiven with no works involved, you must forgive others. You have no basis with which to withold any forgiveness. Same idea.
************************************

I agree it is the same. Forgiving others is a release that we experience.
The Lord punishes those who harm His chosen, this I have seen happen many times in my own life. There was a time when I had difficulty forgiving those who wronged me, but after seeing te penalties God has brought upon them Now I desire that He also forgive them when I am wronged, because I see them as victims of darkness and blinded.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 5897
United States
12/19/2005 11:19 PM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
to the original question, i'd say no. you can't. true relationships may lose crowns, but you'll be there. the gift of the Lord is forever.
TRAINED FOR THIS

User ID: 19962
United States
12/19/2005 11:19 PM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
Cellar Door:

"respectful question

what do you DO with eternal life?

describe a typical 'day'"
************************

REPLY: You are actually asking what ARE/will be the job of "SONS OF GOD". The answer is found in the book of Job and Gensis. Genesis 6 is not a fluke but actually sons of God on missions for God (thouth some were in error).

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

There is MUCH work to be done throughout the Universe for God. Some of these sons of God were even observing the creation of planet earth:

Read Job 38:7.

When we read about sons of God in the New Testament, we errantly forget about the similar beings in the Old Testament. Why? Because only a handful of people on the earth today have the understanding of the sons of God in the Old Testament. Sadly, in Genesis 6 SOME of them failed and lost their eternal life through the FLOOD. These beings were NOT angels. Hopefully we are not so gullible to believe that just because we have salvation, we can do anything we want to.

Thanks for asking...........
SHEEP

User ID: 53850
Canada
12/19/2005 11:22 PM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
Kay:

This whole issue of losing salvation kinda started in another thread and I think the gist of it was losing salvation due to sin.

I utterly reject that. I strayed away from God for years and He brought me back around the time my son was really sick. I was always His and always will be.

An oxymoron because I believe one can lose their salvation.

Peace
Where the eagle glides ascending
There's an ancient river bending
Down the timeless gorge of changes
Where sleeplessness awaits.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6533
United States
12/19/2005 11:25 PM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
>>"It's ironic how 2 people with opposing views can use the same scripture to support their case."<<

Here is your answer to this question...

Ezekiel, chapter 14

1: Then came certain of the elders of Israel unto me, and sat before me.
2: And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
3: Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart, and put the stumblingblock of their iniquity before their face: should I be inquired of at all by them?
4: Therefore speak unto them, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet; I the LORD will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols;
5: That I may take the house of Israel in their own heart, because they are all estranged from me through their idols.
6: Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations.
7: For every one of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to a prophet to inquire of him concerning me; I the LORD will answer him by myself:
8: And I will set my face against that man, and will make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of my people; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

In other words, God will give you the answer that you have already decieded that YOU want.

Yep, God Himself will mess with you to make sure you don't get saved unless you seek Him with all your heart!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 5897
United States
12/19/2005 11:26 PM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
true sheep. we may be unfaithful. God is not. He will keep His promise.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 5392
Canada
12/19/2005 11:29 PM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
respectful question

what do you DO with eternal life?

describe a typical 'day'
************************************

Lately this has been my typical day.
wake up rejoice in the Lord, go out to my yard and start pushing dirt around with the Blade Cat, a little mudslinging with the excavator, Come into the house for a quick lunch, usually nag at my kid for sitting on the computer wasting her time on msn. Then back to the mud. Around dark I take my three dogs out for about an hour, and spend some time alone with Jesus. Come back to the house, have some food, relax a bit and log on to GLp.

In between all this the Lord has me do some things for Him.
SHEEP

User ID: 53850
Canada
12/19/2005 11:29 PM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
>>respectful question

what do you DO with eternal life?

describe a typical 'day'<<

Cellar Door:

I'd like to give you an answer but the truth is I don't know. God is timeless and I am finite (right now) so I can't really comprehend. I just Know that it will be better than here.

Sorry, if that's lame.

Peace
Where the eagle glides ascending
There's an ancient river bending
Down the timeless gorge of changes
Where sleeplessness awaits.
Kay
User ID: 1179
United States
12/19/2005 11:34 PM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
Kay I appreciate your honesty, but I would guarantee that He never left you during these times,

=

Yes, but I think that if one could lose their salvation, if that were possible, then I would have come to that point during that time in my life. Therefore, I can't really agree that a Christian can lose his salvation.

I knew He never left me, He kept showing me that again and again.

So I think that doctrinally we say that you can't lose your salvation, and also I have seen that it is all the Lord who brings us back. So we see it practically also.
Cellar Door

User ID: 2996
United States
12/19/2005 11:34 PM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
thanks to each of you for taking the time to respond

hf
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 5392
Canada
12/19/2005 11:34 PM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
Hopefully we are not so gullible to believe that just because we have salvation, we can do anything we want to.
*************************************

As Paul also said

Galatians 5:13
For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.
SHEEP

User ID: 53850
Canada
12/19/2005 11:37 PM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
>>Here is your answer to this question...

Ezekiel, chapter 14<<

6533:

Sorry, I don't follow you.

Lets say I think theres a 7 year tribulation and someone else quotes the same verse to show there's a 3 1/2 year tribulation.

How do I apply Ezekiel 14?
Where the eagle glides ascending
There's an ancient river bending
Down the timeless gorge of changes
Where sleeplessness awaits.
James.
User ID: 55130
United States
12/19/2005 11:40 PM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
The above afore post Says it Quite Plainly.

To all of the "Book Worms" Keep up the Good Work.

To those whom Chose Not to Belive.

All I can Say is this:

O-Well It's YOUR Problem NOT Mine and if you keep at it long enough You Will Run OUT of TIME.

James.
bike
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 5392
Canada
12/19/2005 11:41 PM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
Yes, but I think that if one could lose their salvation, if that were possible, then I would have come to that point during that time in my life.
***************************************

Ans also if this were true that you lost your salavation because of your disobedience then your salvation and standing before God would be based on your own rightousness and not on Christ. And eternal life would be granted through your own knowledge of good and evil,also meaning that death would not be the result of the eating of this tree's fruit, but instead would be life.

This we know to be a lie, started from satan.
Kay
User ID: 1179
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12/19/2005 11:41 PM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
I think he means that we don't hear God so well when we are putting things above Him, ie idol worship.
Kay
User ID: 1179
United States
12/19/2005 11:42 PM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
Hopefully we are not so gullible to believe that just because we have salvation, we can do anything we want to.
*************************************

As Paul also said

Galatians 5:13
For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

=========

So true!
Kay
User ID: 1179
United States
12/19/2005 11:44 PM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
Hey, this sorta rings a bell with me:

TFT said:


REPLY: You are actually asking what ARE/will be the job of "SONS OF GOD". The answer is found in the book of Job and Gensis. Genesis 6 is not a fluke but actually sons of God on missions for God (thouth some were in error).

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

There is MUCH work to be done throughout the Universe for God. Some of these sons of God were even observing the creation of planet earth:

Read Job 38:7.

When we read about sons of God in the New Testament, we errantly forget about the similar beings in the Old Testament. Why? Because only a handful of people on the earth today have the understanding of the sons of God in the Old Testament. Sadly, in Genesis 6 SOME of them failed and lost their eternal life through the FLOOD. These beings were NOT angels. Hopefully we are not so gullible to believe that just because we have salvation, we can do anything we want to.

Thanks for asking...


=================


Now I remember about a year or so ago asking you to elaborate on this theme and I think you said you were told not to reveal this info yet.

Can you now?

Wasn't there something about 'anthony' or some kind of test question?

Can you go into it, TFT?
Lucius Joseph
User ID: 55133
Saint Lucia
12/19/2005 11:51 PM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
In reply to caller ID53850

Sorry for loosing me at the conclusion.

The whole scenario is that, we are saved from the penalty of death as the result of Adam"s sin.

Christ the last Adam the second man from heaven (1Cor.15:45), paid the price for mankind, and gave mankind a new life in the spirit at His resurrection. This is the free gift of eternal life.

When some one receives and accepts Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, his name is written in the book of life, and he/she is transfered from the kingdom of darkness into the Kingdom of God's dear Son, and given the authority or the right to become a child of God.(Col.1:13, Jn.1:12-13).

Please note that this person has already been born, not of blood, not by the will of the flesh, nor by the will of man, but by God. Because this birth starts together with our physical birth.Because all mankind were begotten by Jesus Christ at His resurrection. (1Pet.1:3)

John said, "In Him (Christ) was life, and the life was the light of men." That was the true light (orlife), which gives light(life) to every man who comes into the world." (Jn.1:4,9).
We receive our physical mortal life from the first Adam, and the spiritual life from the Last Adam.

But having one's name written in the book of life does not guarantee entrance into the kingdom of God, it only saves them from the second death.
(Rev.20:15). Because the work which they built did not endure the test. For, "If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss. But he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire" (1Cor.3:15).

The work we have to do after accepting Jesus Christ, is to build our spiritual temple, this is Everlasting life or the immoralty of the body. Some unfortunately will be spiritually naked, because they are not building their spiritual house with durable materials.

This is the salvation future.

Eternal life is a gift from God,it eternally existed, and continues eternally.

Everlasting life is the immortality of the mortal body, which had a beginning
and has an end, but will be allowed to live for ever.

Those who do not have immortality will have to partake of the tree of life for their bodies to live for ever, and they will not be glorified and be part of God's kingdom, for they will not be part of the first resurrection.

Religion is toiling in vain for what they already possess, and failing to achieve what they are supposed to achieve.

Lucius Joseph
SHEEP

User ID: 53850
Canada
12/19/2005 11:56 PM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
RE: Trained For This post:

I must be hard of hearing today. I don't really follow what you are saying either.

I guess you are comparing life in eternity to the life of the parents of the Nephilim. Is that correct?

Right before He destroyed the world in a flood because of how evil it was.

Are those the guys or am I out to lunch.

Thankyou and peace in Jesus.
Where the eagle glides ascending
There's an ancient river bending
Down the timeless gorge of changes
Where sleeplessness awaits.
Kay
User ID: 1179
United States
12/19/2005 11:56 PM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
No religion is this:


1 Timothy 5:4
But if a widow has children or grandchildren, these should learn first of all to put their religion into practice by caring for their own family and so repaying their parents and grandparents, for this is pleasing to God.


James 1:26
If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.


James 1:27
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
James 1:26-28 (in Context) James 1 (Whole Chapter)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6533
United States
12/20/2005 12:01 AM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
>>"Lets say I think theres a 7 year tribulation and someone else quotes the same verse to show there's a 3 1/2 year tribulation."<<

There are no verses that speak of a 7 year trib in the Bible what-so-ever!
SHEEP

User ID: 53850
Canada
12/20/2005 12:07 AM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
>>There are no verses that speak of a 7 year trib in the Bible what-so-ever!<<

OK. So lets pretend that I thought there was and you didn't. Lets pretend for example that I used Daniel's 70th week. But you thought it meant something different.

How does Ezekiel 14 explain how we got different views from the same scripture.
Where the eagle glides ascending
There's an ancient river bending
Down the timeless gorge of changes
Where sleeplessness awaits.
To L J
User ID: 55130
United States
12/20/2005 12:11 AM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
You preaty much got the Picture.

Now We All just have to wait to see Which Way the world Wants it:

Shall it be GOD's Way,

or the High Way(See Ya wouldn't wana be ya).

Let's see what pans out from Here.

James
TRAINED FOR THIS

User ID: 19962
United States
12/20/2005 12:35 AM
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Re: Can a born again Christian lose their salvation??
Kay,

Now I remember about a year or so ago asking you to elaborate on this theme and I think you said you were told not to reveal this info yet.

Can you now?
***********************
REPLY: There is much I can say about sons of God at this time.

2. Wasn't there something about 'anthony' or some kind of test question?

Can you go into it, TFT?
************************
REPLY: Not much left to be said about Anthony at this time. The test served its purpose. It was done to expose someone claiming to be a watcher. Of course this person did not know Anthony. There is nothing else I can about Anthony at this time.

Thanks for asking.........





GLP