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KNOWING

 
QuantumHost
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User ID: 1720
United States
12/18/2005 09:48 AM
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KNOWING
KNOWING

There is no such thing as KNOWING on the experiential plane.
There is only ever BELIEF.

<speculation> Immutable Knowledge is the mark of the creator, not man.
But then, this is only our belief… because being OF the creator,
is different than being HIM.

There is far more proof for the supposition offered above.
If you have proof of immutable knowing, then please by all means share your example.
But consider, if ANY differs with the example…
it is relegated back to the boundaries of experiential belief.

The acceptance of the belief above, is a step on the path to grace and humility.
Belief’s are simple seeds in the garden of humanity. Nourished, grown, coveted,
then released back to the essence from which they came.

Do you see the invitation?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 54546
Netherlands
12/18/2005 09:53 AM
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Re: KNOWING
"Do you see the invitation?" No, sorry, I don't see my invitation. Maybe you go the wrong address?
Zions Fled

User ID: 54569
United States
12/18/2005 09:56 AM
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Re: KNOWING
I disagree QH

We are connected and seperate.

morphic resonance
Morphic resonance is a term coined by Rupert Sheldrake for what he thinks is "the basis of memory in nature....the idea of mysterious telepathy-type interconnections between organisms and of collective memories within species."

Sheldrake has been trained in 20th century scientific models--he has a Ph.D. in biochemistry from Cambridge University (1967)--but he prefers Goethe and 19th century vitalism. Sheldrake prefers teleological to mechanistic models of reality. Rather than spend his life, say, trying to develop a way to increase crop yields, he prefers to study and think in terms outside of the paradigms of science, i.e., inside the paradigms of the occult and the paranormal. One of his books is entitled Dogs That Know When Their Owners Are Coming Home: And Other Unexplained Powers of Animals. One of his studies is on whether people can tell when someone is staring at them. (He says they can; others have been unable to duplicate his results.*) He prefers a romantic vision of the past to the bleak picture of a world run by technocrats who want to control Nature and destroy much of the environment in the process. In short, he prefers metaphysics to science, though he seems to think he can do the former but call it the latter.

'Morphic resonance' (MR) is put forth as if it were an empirical term, but it is no more empirical than L. Ron Hubbard's 'engram', the alleged source of all mental and physical illness. The term is more on par with the Stoic's notion of the Logos or Plato's notion of the eidos [eidos] than it is with any scientific notion of the laws of nature. What the rest of the scientific world terms lawfulness--the tendency of things to follow patterns we call laws of nature--Sheldrake calls morphic resonance. He describes it as a kind of memory in things determined not by their inherent natures, but by repetition. He also describes MR as something which is transmitted via "morphogenetic fields." This gives him a conceptual framework wherein information is transmitted mysteriously and miraculously through any amount of space and time without loss of energy, and presumably without loss or change of content through something like mutation in DNA replication. Thus, room is made for psychical as well as physical transmission of information. Thus,

it is not at all necessary for us to assume that the physical characteristics of organisms are contained inside the genes, which may in fact be analogous to transistors tuned in to the proper frequencies for translating invisible information into visible form. Thus, morphogenetic fields are located invisibly in and around organisms, and may account for such hitherto unexplainable phenomena as the regeneration of severed limbs by worms and salamanders, phantom limbs, the holographic properties of memory, telepathy, and the increasing ease with which new skills are learned as greater quantities of a population acquire them.*

While this metaphysical proposition does seem to make room for telepathy, it does so at the expense of ignoring Occam's razor. Telepathy and such things as phantom limbs, for example, can be explained without adding the metaphysical baggage of morphic resonance. So can memory, which does not require a holographic paradigm, by the way. The notion that new skills are learned with increasing ease as greater quantities of a population acquire them, known as the hundredth monkey phenomenon, is bogus.

In short, although Sheldrake commands some respect as a scientist because of his education and degree, he has clearly abandoned science in favor of theology and philosophy. This is his right, of course. However, his continued pose as a scientist is unwarranted. He is one of a growing horde of "alternative" scientists whose resentment at the aspiritual nature of modern scientific paradigms, as well as the obviously harmful and seemingly indifferent applications of modern science, have led them to create their own paradigms. These paradigms are not new, though the terminology is. These alternative paradigms allow for angels, telepathy, psychic dogs, and hope for a future world where we all live in harmony and love, surrounded by blissful neighbors who never heard of biological warfare, nuclear bombs, or genetically engineered corn on the cob.

further reading

reader comments

The Psychic Staring Effect An Artifact of Pseudo Randomization by David F. Marks and John Colwell
Sheldrake's response to Marks and Colwell
Robert Baker's response to Sheldrake
Rupert Sheldrake: The delightful crackpot by David Bowman
The amazing ideas of Rupert Sheldrake by John Blanton
Rupert's Resonance by Michael Shermer
Sheldrake, Rupert. 1996. Seven Experiments That Could Change the World: A Do-It-Yourself Guide to Revolutionary Science. Riverhead Books
[link]
QuantumHost  (OP)

User ID: 1720
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12/18/2005 09:59 AM
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Re: KNOWING
Zions

"I disagree QH"

You prove our point. You believe what you believe, we believe what we believe... based on historical paths.

Neither path invalidates the other. They are both distinct and relevant.

What you thought you knew, were not lies, just beliefs from another time.
QuantumHost  (OP)

User ID: 1720
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12/18/2005 11:03 AM
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Re: KNOWING
We agree... there is comfort,
in ignorance.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 54276
United States
12/18/2005 11:04 AM
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Re: KNOWING
I'm very intelligent

I know that I know nothing for certain
Halcyon Dayz

User ID: 11432
Netherlands
12/18/2005 12:45 PM
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Re: KNOWING
"Cogito Ergo Sum"

That I know.

book
Reaching for the sky makes you taller.

Hi! My name is Halcyon Dayz and I'm addicted to morans.
QuantumHost  (OP)

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12/18/2005 01:13 PM
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Re: KNOWING
Halcyon

René is wondrous.
Thank you for the reference.
Slim

User ID: 4406
United States
12/18/2005 01:17 PM
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Re: KNOWING
I know I was created Holy as you were. I am Holy and so is everyone in the Universe.
QuantumHost  (OP)

User ID: 1720
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12/18/2005 01:28 PM
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Re: KNOWING
Slim

K.
Allen1
User ID: 2076
United States
12/18/2005 01:40 PM
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Re: KNOWING
There is no such thing as KNOWING on the experiential plane.
There is only ever BELIEF.

-----

LOL. But there is such a thing as this "experiential plane", right? You're right though, from a fragmented perspective of fragmented consciousness there is no true knowing or gnosis. In unity, however, knowing and experiencing are not seperated by limiting belief. One who knows, knows of thier own free will. I'm sure this troubles you but you will never defeat this truth no matter how hard you try. You simply haven't the will.
LittleBird

User ID: 54634
United States
12/18/2005 01:51 PM
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Re: KNOWING
There is no such thing as KNOWING on the experiential plane.
-------------------------------------------------------------​------
How do you KNOW this?

Beam me up, Scotty! Beam me up soon!
Never mind, Scotty, cuz... "There is no spoon"
Nerak
User ID: 54620
United States
12/18/2005 01:54 PM
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Re: KNOWING
Knowing is a blesssing and a curse.............
*Jennifer*

User ID: 54616
New Zealand
12/18/2005 01:56 PM
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Re: KNOWING
Whaia e koe ke te iti kahurangi; ki te tuohu koe, me maunga tei tei.

He aha te mea nui o te Ao. He tangata, he tangata, he tangata.
LittleBird

User ID: 54634
United States
12/18/2005 01:57 PM
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Re: KNOWING
Knowing is a blesssing and a curse
----------------------------------

Not knowing is also a blessing & a curse.

Beam me up, Scotty! Beam me up soon!
Never mind, Scotty, cuz... "There is no spoon"
*Jennifer*

User ID: 54616
New Zealand
12/18/2005 01:57 PM
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Re: KNOWING
Seek the treasure you value most dearly; if you bow your head, let it be to a lofty mountain.

What is the greatest thing of the world? People, people, people.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 278
United States
12/18/2005 01:59 PM
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Re: KNOWING
You can never prove knowing to another on this plane. You can only experience it.
ub4peace

User ID: 2534
United States
12/18/2005 02:19 PM
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Re: KNOWING
What a tangled web we weave. The more I know, the less I believe I know.

Not to diminish the oneness we all share, but how do we REALLY know we are connected? Could it be faith and trust? A certain knowing comes from building a trust in the Creator, not an absolute knowing, but more of a relationship of our limited capacity of Oneness that grows as we progress towards perfection. Perfection is the goal, as we are imperfect beings. It gives me something to shoot for at the very least.

Nice to see you QH, Zions, and allen1.


peace
QuantumHost  (OP)

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12/18/2005 04:14 PM
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Re: KNOWING
Little Bird

"There is no such thing as KNOWING on the experiential plane."
-------------------------------------------------------- -----------
"How do you KNOW this?"

Knowledge, as in IMMUTABLE. We see no evidence of it. If you do, please share here for all to see.

This is simply our belief.
QuantumHost  (OP)

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12/18/2005 04:17 PM
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Re: KNOWING
Allen1

"I'm sure this troubles you but you will never defeat this truth no matter how hard you try. You simply haven't the will."

Wearing that on your sleeve is out of style. Try again friend. You really don't KNOW us.

This is our belief.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 54682
New Zealand
12/18/2005 04:21 PM
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Re: KNOWING
Excuse my ignorance Quantum Host, but please tell me, who are the 'we' you refer dont_use_thisys?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 54682
New Zealand
12/18/2005 04:22 PM
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Re: KNOWING
dont_use_this = in the responses you provide..thanks
Sicksixix
User ID: 2706
United States
12/18/2005 04:34 PM
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Re: KNOWING
some never consider their source, just living robotically day to day

the ones who do consider end up not getting an answer and die off like everyone does

do what you have to so you can get to and through that last day

nothing you can feed yourself will give you knowledge enough to escape the immutable truth of life ending
Hi there Miss 124 avatars aka
User ID: 922
United States
12/18/2005 04:36 PM
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Re: KNOWING
Hey Willow, what's happenin for you girl? Just thought I'd drop by and tell you how much I like your flooding of smalltime games-mass fiction. You got some kinda serious problem there honey. They don't let choo write like that here no mo so you do it all there, huh? You the Girl, girlfriend! Below is George Bush, happy over the way the Iraqi voting went followed by how the liberals feel and followed a third time by Teddy Kennedy.
gwdance

cry
butt

beer2
Allen1
User ID: 2076
United States
12/18/2005 06:51 PM
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Re: KNOWING
You really don't KNOW us.

----

You might be surprised at what I know. What I don't know, of course, is how well you know yourselves. Not that it's relevant.
Divinity nli
User ID: 38141
Spain
12/18/2005 06:58 PM
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Re: KNOWING
Allen, perhaps he doesn't KNOW us because he doesn't feel LOVE?

I KNOW I love my children unconditionally. Do you know how I know? Nor do I, I just feel it. flower
scimitar

User ID: 51311
United States
12/18/2005 07:38 PM

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Re: KNOWING
I KNOW that I PERCEIVE my existance.
I KNOW that I PERCEIVE your existance.
I KNOW that I PERCEIVE the existance of the world.

I KNOW that I PERCEIVE my lungs taking in air.

I KNOW that you PERCEIVE exactly the same.

One Truth.... many realities

Greetings QH
<trying to be socially correct>
HAPPY HOLIDAYS
Ominous regressions
One Truth... many realities





GLP