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DK Rises Symbolism While Fresh In My Mind...NO SPOILERS!! I swear. :)

 
SolarSiren
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07/21/2012 06:53 PM
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DK Rises Symbolism While Fresh In My Mind...NO SPOILERS!! I swear. :)
Stuff that stuck out for me were..and make of it what you wish, it did go by so fast & was slightly buzzed when I saw it.

I enjoyed it as art, but was aware it could also be propaganda for whomever, I'm still deciding is Nolan is pro or anti elite control (whoever you want to label them as is up to you.)

This movie is obviously extremely deep in mythology, occult, & biblical symbolism, I will be re-watching it for sure just to catch everything.

One trailer before it was VERY interesting...It's about how brands end up possessing our minds or soul, I was like "YEP!!!!" the entire time, forgot what the F it was called though...Buzzed :P

Alrighty so on to the symbolism I noticed.......

* Someone mentions peeing in MASON jars (comparing Wayne to recluse Howard Hughes).
* Bane's Pit reminds me of the Imaginarium of Dr Parnasius, the place where he made a deal with the Devil.
* Catwoman eating an APPLE and saying something very interesting to a kid...
* PARK/NO PARKING signs overly prominant & emphasized. (Park At Phils)
* YELLOW YELLOW YELLOW used A LOT up unto a certain pivotal plot point.
* TONS of tarot card HANGED MAN symbolism (ropes), as in the previous Batman movie with the Joker hanging upside down.
* Watch the numbers on cars & street signs, watch the signs people have during the football scene. 233 (Skull and Bones) was on the highest seats for the football game, observe who is inside this area....
* It seems to be neither pro no anti gun, the statements made by some characters show this to me IMHO.
* Watch how the SUN is used, the actual SUN in some scenes & in the decorations.
* Also watch for X's in scenes.
* Pay attention to the quieter, one on one character conversation parts....I think Nolan might have had to put in excess explosions/noise/violence to appease the types who enjoy & expect this. I personally preferred the more character driven & emotion based scenes because it made
you feel more sucked into the story (Unlike Transformers)
* I FEEL a part within the first 30 mins or so, involving Dect. Blake investigating sewers, was oddly edited & feels like some parts were left out, even the audio is a slight wonky.

Your thoughts or additions?
Anonymous Coward
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07/21/2012 07:10 PM
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Re: DK Rises Symbolism While Fresh In My Mind...NO SPOILERS!! I swear. :)
I did pick up on some wonky editing...didn't fit for a Nolan movie.

I'm of the belief that Nolan and company are anti-elite...that's the message I got from the trilogy.

Begins is about overcoming fear.

TDK is about keeping your head amid chaos; it also features some interesting discussions about government/elite figures using surveillance on citizens.

TDKR states that ideology, not money, rules the world (Bane to Daggart: "Do you feel in charge?" was my favorite line of the movie).

In TDKR, they speak of "The Dent Act," a piece of legislation passed through a lie (Dent is made out to be a hero when he is actually a murderer; perhaps the Patriot Act after 911?) Additionally, class warfare is a HUGE part of the movie, and recent rhetoric (Occupy, etc.) in America suggests that we are headed down such a path.

Bane uses the "people's revolution" as a guise for his terrorist plot; he reveals the truth behind Dent's crimes, and this spurs the people on toward revolution in Gotham. Can you imagine if 911 Truth was revealed? Civil unrest, to say the least.

Bane, referred to as being evil, "the Devil", etc. wants to destroy the Western World; he is "Gotham's reckoning." He tells the people of Gotham that Gotham is theirs and they must take down their rich oppressors to truly be free. He manipulates the people of Gotham into revolting against the government and upper classes, but only to create instability so he can go through with his master plan of destruction.

So...

is Bane supposed to be Obama?

Also interestingly, Captain Jones, a special forces officer sent in to assist the Gotham Resistance, is played by Daniel Sunjata, an outspoken 911 Truther. Sunjata played a firefighting truther on F/X's 'Rescue Me'; when he was researching his role, the information he found opened his eyes and he began asking new questions. Very interesting that he was cast in this movie...To quote Jim Gordon, "You're not allowed to believe in coincidences anymore".
Idol1
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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07/21/2012 07:17 PM
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Re: DK Rises Symbolism While Fresh In My Mind...NO SPOILERS!! I swear. :)
"Do you FEEL in charge?" - YES!!! I LOVED THAT LINE TOO!

To me, trying to get out of the pit without a rope means,
you can only FREE YOURSELF WITHOUT HELP FROM ANYBODY.
And that the HELP OFFERED (the ROPE), that LOOKS HELPFUL,
is only HINDERING US as a people from reaching our TRUE POTENTIAL (Whatever path you choose).

Thanks for replying !!! :)
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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07/21/2012 07:20 PM
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Re: DK Rises Symbolism While Fresh In My Mind...NO SPOILERS!! I swear. :)
Also - The name BLAKE means DARKNESS.

SPOILERS*******************









The movie shows Gotham (USA), TRUSTING someone they JUST SAW KILL A GUY (The bomb expert on the football field) who was the ONLY ONE WHO COULD HAVE SAVED THEM!!!!!!!!!!! WTF??????????
Anonymous Coward
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07/21/2012 07:21 PM
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Re: DK Rises Symbolism While Fresh In My Mind...NO SPOILERS!! I swear. :)
"Do you FEEL in charge?" - YES!!! I LOVED THAT LINE TOO!

To me, trying to get out of the pit without a rope means,
you can only FREE YOURSELF WITHOUT HELP FROM ANYBODY.
And that the HELP OFFERED (the ROPE), that LOOKS HELPFUL,
is only HINDERING US as a people from reaching our TRUE POTENTIAL (Whatever path you choose).


Thanks for replying !!! :)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20142897


(the ROPE), that LOOKS HELPFUL,
is only HINDERING US as a people from reaching our TRUE POTENTIAL (Whatever path you choose).



Very deep observation there buddy
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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07/21/2012 07:23 PM
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Re: DK Rises Symbolism While Fresh In My Mind...NO SPOILERS!! I swear. :)
It shows the people (the poor class), going buck wild when given the chance to KILL THE RICH. It shows how FAST PEOPLE CAN BECOME what THEY HATED the most in a split second if GIVEN THE CHANCE.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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07/21/2012 08:03 PM
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Re: DK Rises Symbolism While Fresh In My Mind...NO SPOILERS!! I swear. :)
‎"The idea was to be a symbol" says Wayne to Blake.

People want someone to SAVE THEM NOW when they STAMP THEIR little feet, and then TURN on the person helping them & want his head on a plate with vigor for not doing so. Wayne could be taken a Christ like figure, he's hated by the people he tries to save but still does it...He's rich & people only see his money and trappings and all the women he gets...He has to hide behind a mask because if people knew who he was, they would hate him on a knee jerk reaction. The guilt of this is a running theme, he wants to tell people who he is & reveal all so bad, but then he can't because the people would HATE him for it....They'd slam him as just another "spoiled rich kid" with an alternate agenda...
Anonymous Coward
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07/21/2012 08:17 PM
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Re: DK Rises Symbolism While Fresh In My Mind...NO SPOILERS!! I swear. :)
"Do you FEEL in charge?" - YES!!! I LOVED THAT LINE TOO!

To me, trying to get out of the pit without a rope means,
you can only FREE YOURSELF WITHOUT HELP FROM ANYBODY.
And that the HELP OFFERED (the ROPE), that LOOKS HELPFUL,
is only HINDERING US as a people from reaching our TRUE POTENTIAL (Whatever path you choose).

Thanks for replying !!! :)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20142897


Wish I could sit down for a cup of coffee (or mug of beer!) and talk Batman (...and conspiracies, of course!) with you!

I agree about your Wayne(and Batman)/Christ ideas. Redemption is a huge theme in the movie. "Do you think he's coming back"? the orphan boy asks Blake, reminding me of the coming of the messiah.

Characters like Selina Kyle and Deputy Commissioner Foley are only interested in their own self-preservation until Batman inspires them (Batman asking for Selina's help; the Bat Symbol in the burning building inspires Foley to lead the GCPD against the terrorists). Then, they make sacrifices for the greater good.

The prison/Lazarus pit was deep (literally AND figuratively). Your spot on with the rope, and I think it's interesting that Bruce and Talia are the only ones to escape, but ultimately one fights for good, the other for evil...

I'm seeing it again tomorrow. My theatre offered some TDK inspired drinks. The 'Bane' and 'Lucious Fox' were too delicious! Must have clear head!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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07/21/2012 09:43 PM
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Re: DK Rises Symbolism While Fresh In My Mind...NO SPOILERS!! I swear. :)
I'd buy all the rounds my friend!!!
You got it....

Both get out due to the feeling of LOVE....Talia got out bc she had help of BANE who LOVED her enough to help her and she CHOSE her path, even DEFENDING his killings of random people till the end, because he helped her BE FREE, she cared not for others, she only cared for herself & her own feelings...WAYNE got out because of LOVE and feeling pain for the innocent people who could die in Gotham.
Anonymous Coward
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07/21/2012 10:09 PM
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Re: DK Rises Symbolism While Fresh In My Mind...NO SPOILERS!! I swear. :)
You don't happen to live anywhere near MA, do you?

Great point about love as the common denominator. Love is undoubtedly the strongest emotion, but both characters used this fuel for very different purposes. Talia's love for Bane and Ra's fueled her lust for destruction; she did not think of anyone else. Wayne, on the other hand, thinks only of others, and uses this to save Gotham. He is "ANGRY" because those he loves - indirectly, for the most part - are being threatened with extermination.

It was a nice turnaround for him - he was a hermit for what, 8 years? He can only return in all his glory when EVERYTHING and EVERYONE is at stake.

There is so so much to be discussed/explored with these films...

[email protected] if you are so inclined
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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07/21/2012 10:10 PM
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Re: DK Rises Symbolism While Fresh In My Mind...NO SPOILERS!! I swear. :)
Both Talia and Wayne get out of "The Trap/Pit/Jail" due to the FEELING of LOVE....Talia got out because her mother LOVED HER PLUS she had help of BANE who LOVED her enough to help her and she CHOSE her path.

LOVE AND HATE can exist together at the same time. She even DEFENDING BANE'S killings of random people till the end, because he helped her BE FREE, she cared not for OTHERS, she only cared for herself & her OWN feelings...WAYNE got out because of LOVE and feeling pain for the innocent people who could die in Gotham.

She got so far in the PLAN because of her FEELINGS...We are not our bodies, we are more than flesh and bone.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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07/21/2012 10:12 PM
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Re: DK Rises Symbolism While Fresh In My Mind...NO SPOILERS!! I swear. :)
Ops shit, sorry for double posting there !
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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07/21/2012 10:29 PM
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Re: DK Rises Symbolism While Fresh In My Mind...NO SPOILERS!! I swear. :)
@ User ID: 4440582 - No I don't, I'm in FL ... I'll drop ya a line.... ;-)
Anonymous Coward
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07/21/2012 10:37 PM
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Re: DK Rises Symbolism While Fresh In My Mind...NO SPOILERS!! I swear. :)
She got so far in the PLAN because of her FEELINGS...We are not our bodies, we are more than flesh and bone.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20142897


Well said!

I think Bruce realizes this, too. Bane brings (physical) PAIN unlike anything Batman/Bruce has experienced before; no villain could ever match Batman, but Bane BREAKS his body (and bends his spirit) but both are restored through his experiences in the Pit.

It is not until Bruce learns to overcome pain and transcend his physical limitations (I think back to when young Talia makes the Crouching Tiger-esque jump to the ledge...both demonstrate supernatural ability) that he can physically, mentally, and spiritually contend with Bane, etc.

I look forward to hearing from you and continuing our discourse!
Anonymous Coward
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07/22/2012 10:15 PM
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Re: DK Rises Symbolism While Fresh In My Mind...NO SPOILERS!! I swear. :)
Just got back from my second viewing and...Wow. Liked it even better!

One thing that has stuck out in my mind is when Daggert requests Bane, and he appears between two (masonic?) pillars and says, "Speak of the devil and he shall appear". We're not allowed to believe in coincidences anymore.

Interesting symbol, considering that the League of Shadows is a secret society hell bent on destroying civilization as we know it (and have manipulated history for centuries).





GLP