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Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more

 
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 14348632
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08/01/2012 03:40 PM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more
Down goes Hilsenrath, down goes Hilsenrath, down goes Hilsenrath..... I knew he was jawboning and lying all the time..... even the WSJ lacks credibility!
 Quoting: Therion156 1496241


Exactly!

There are many who won't be taking his phone call, lol

What a wind bag...just one more of many liars

I'm with saddletramp...we've been saying for a while there wouldn't be another QE, because 1) it will probably be ineffective and 2) probably be their last

There also is limited political support for QE, given that by now its fairly well known that QE benefits wall street and commodity traders, and does little for the average person or their ability to buy a house.

All QE is known to do is run up the price of commodities, esp food and gas

On top of the recent droughts, I think the last thing the fed wants is to trigger more food inflation, esp during an election year
Anonymous Coward
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08/01/2012 03:41 PM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more
charilie gaspirono said he knew the cfo of knight
somewhat well and that he was "a standup guy"

charlie also said that knight said that this
was NOT a result of a hacking incident

charlie also said he was talking w/ friends and
that it is actually quite EASY for these algos
to blow up like this

so don't worry everyone charlie said this guys a friend
its not hacking and all this stuff is routine

back to olympics for you
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 3297006
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08/01/2012 03:43 PM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more
charilie gaspirono said he knew the cfo of knight
somewhat well and that he was "a standup guy"

charlie also said that knight said that this
was NOT a result of a hacking incident

charlie also said he was talking w/ friends and
that it is actually quite EASY for these algos
to blow up like this

so don't worry everyone charlie said this guys a friend
its not hacking and all this stuff is routine

back to olympics for you
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3297006


correction... charie on fox said he knew CEO not CFO
anwywhooo... back to olympics
AmericanJedi

User ID: 1503533
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08/01/2012 03:50 PM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more
Face reality, QE 1 & 2 were adaptations. Slowly boiling the frog. They got the general public accustom to being broke and a lower standard of living.

Now, the well is dry.
(GLP aka American Jedi)

Listen here you beautiful bitch, I'm about to fuck you up with some truth.
Kenny Powers

If you steal the dreams of others long enough, sooner or later you'll end up in a nightmare.
American Jedi

Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them.
Albert Einstein

Satis Eloquentiae, Sapientiae Parum....

"The last of the old?"

"No, the first of the new."
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/01/2012 03:55 PM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more
...saddletramp, are you still here?
Anonymous Coward
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Germany
08/01/2012 03:57 PM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more
1 minzerohedge‏@zerohedge

Probably no sense in asking KCG what the closing market fixing is
 Quoting: Luisport


KCG now down 28%, 7.35 low of day

$10 puts now +1800%, 2.80:

[link to img14.imageshack.us]

Some made plenty from KCG's sell off

but the market wants to go up, low volume, no fed, doesn't matter

green close
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14348632


Doom on!

6.87 -3.46 (-33.49%)

LOL OMG
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/01/2012 04:00 PM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more
1 minzerohedge‏@zerohedge

Probably no sense in asking KCG what the closing market fixing is
 Quoting: Luisport


KCG now down 28%, 7.35 low of day

$10 puts now +1800%, 2.80:

[link to img14.imageshack.us]

Some made plenty from KCG's sell off

but the market wants to go up, low volume, no fed, doesn't matter

green close
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14348632


Doom on!

6.87 -3.46 (-33.49%)

LOL OMG
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14457252


I would suggest CASH and caution here

$SPY weekly 136 puts -7% .49c, 57,900 vol:

[link to img846.imageshack.us]

SPY puts = insurance against scary monsters and rogue algos
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/01/2012 04:05 PM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more
1 minzerohedge‏@zerohedge

Probably no sense in asking KCG what the closing market fixing is
 Quoting: Luisport


KCG now down 28%, 7.35 low of day

$10 puts now +1800%, 2.80:

[link to img14.imageshack.us]

Some made plenty from KCG's sell off

but the market wants to go up, low volume, no fed, doesn't matter

green close
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14348632


Doom on!

6.87 -3.46 (-33.49%)

LOL OMG
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14457252


there is something I just learned...

apparently traders there figured out how to trick the algos into doing the wrong thing

they would game the algos to make money every day

no doubt they also figured out how to keep the algos from shutting off

the phone call is coming from inside the house
Indian Elder
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08/01/2012 04:13 PM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more
Wasnt there alot of action on the day before 911? is it possible the market is volitile because something is in the wind?
And by the way, the Germans tracked down all the people who made MASSIVE profits on 911 and nothing was ever done about it, why not. How did they know.
just a thought.
Therion156
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08/01/2012 04:17 PM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more
Last week I posted that I did not foresee additional QE prior to the Nov. election... stating that the "Audit the Fed" bill was the sword of Damacoles hanging over the Bernanke Fed.... if the public suspected the Fed was using monetary policy for political purposes...namely to re-elect Obama, the existence of the Fed & its policies would be called into question.... secondly if additional QE was introduced b4 the election and Obama wasn't elected... the new president would not reappoint Bernanke as Fed head.... and possibly create political problems for the Fed. Thirdly... the next QE will be outrageously humongous....to save the bond market hence finance deficts etc.... so I dont think QE except post the Nov. 2012 election.....prolly mid 2013.
Anonymous Coward
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Germany
08/01/2012 04:34 PM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more
Wasnt there alot of action on the day before 911? is it possible the market is volitile because something is in the wind?
And by the way, the Germans tracked down all the people who made MASSIVE profits on 911 and nothing was ever done about it, why not. How did they know.
just a thought.
 Quoting: Indian Elder 13632800


Didn't they also announce 2 Trillion missing just before 911? Strangely enough they've just announced '9' Trillion missing....

Woooa LOL
Baltar  (OP)

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08/01/2012 04:46 PM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more
Wasnt there alot of action on the day before 911? is it possible the market is volitile because something is in the wind?
And by the way, the Germans tracked down all the people who made MASSIVE profits on 911 and nothing was ever done about it, why not. How did they know.
just a thought.
 Quoting: Indian Elder 13632800


Didn't they also announce 2 Trillion missing just before 911? Strangely enough they've just announced '9' Trillion missing....

Woooa LOL
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14457252



yep

Thread: 9 trillion missing from Federal Reserve and Federal Reserve says that we don't know where it is.
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.
~Marcus Aurelius
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19331825
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08/01/2012 05:01 PM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more
charilie gaspirono said he knew the cfo of knight
somewhat well and that he was "a standup guy"

charlie also said that knight said that this
was NOT a result of a hacking incident

charlie also said he was talking w/ friends and
that it is actually quite EASY for these algos
to blow up like this


so don't worry everyone charlie said this guys a friend
its not hacking and all this stuff is routine

back to olympics for you
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3297006


I'm a computer programmer, and I've done some pretty complex algorithms, but not for the stock market.

It's not easy for algorithms to 'blow up', they should be used as transactions, and if one errors it aborts and rolls back before sending results; so nothing is sent.

Either they hired some 16 year old kiddy scripters or they are lying.
Anonymous Coward
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08/01/2012 05:17 PM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more
Hit every sell order but mine.

tantrum
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 455519
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08/01/2012 05:34 PM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more
Wasnt there alot of action on the day before 911? is it possible the market is volitile because something is in the wind?
And by the way, the Germans tracked down all the people who made MASSIVE profits on 911 and nothing was ever done about it, why not. How did they know.
just a thought.
 Quoting: Indian Elder 13632800


Didn't they also announce 2 Trillion missing just before 911? Strangely enough they've just announced '9' Trillion missing....

Woooa LOL
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14457252



yep

Thread: 9 trillion missing from Federal Reserve and Federal Reserve says that we don't know where it is.
 Quoting: Baltar


Isn't that a video from May? Old trillions missing or new as of today?
Just askin'...

hf
musicadi

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Hungary
08/01/2012 05:54 PM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more
so..... everyone lost all their money yet?

5a
God has no enemies! God is LOVE! Love is the most powerful weapon in the world. All who try to play God are wasting their time and will get kicked in the ass over and over again until they learn their lesson! PS. I'M HUNGARIAN!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 21074935
Ireland
08/01/2012 06:01 PM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more
Trading in 148 securities "under review"

Will people who got stopped out by a 10% plunge get their money back?

The casino is experiencing "technical difficulties"
 Quoting: Baltar


Someone inserted a new algorithm/ high frequency trading software into their ponzi scheme and did not let TPTB in on it.

BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

Turds!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20812641


haha
Baltar  (OP)

User ID: 14348632
United States
08/01/2012 06:11 PM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more

charilie gaspirono said he knew the cfo of knight
somewhat well and that he was "a standup guy"

charlie also said that knight said that this
was NOT a result of a hacking incident

charlie also said he was talking w/ friends and
that it is actually quite EASY for these algos
to blow up like this


so don't worry everyone charlie said this guys a friend
its not hacking and all this stuff is routine

back to olympics for you
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3297006


I'm a computer programmer, and I've done some pretty complex algorithms, but not for the stock market.

It's not easy for algorithms to 'blow up', they should be used as transactions, and if one errors it aborts and rolls back before sending results; so nothing is sent.

Either they hired some 16 year old kiddy scripters or they are lying.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19331825


I have interesting information from a colleague who had worked at KCG as an algo programmer

I'm torn what to post here. I don't want to get anyone in trouble.

I've written him to see if I can get an OK to post some of this publicly, but somehow I doubt it

I shared it in my flashchat, but GLP can be forever....

Suffice it to say that this guy is one of the least conspiracy minded individuals out there. He usually feels just about anything can be explained simply and rationally and that there must be an intelligent explanation for most market actions

Yet he thinks this is extremely strange, and the more he thinks about it, the stranger it gets

If I can paraphrase what he shared with me eliminating the names and specifics, I'll post it here

Last Edited by Baltar on 08/01/2012 06:13 PM
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.
~Marcus Aurelius
Saddletramp

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08/01/2012 06:49 PM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more
Follow the money...
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."

"We don't rent pigs!"
Saddletramp

User ID: 21084319
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08/01/2012 07:03 PM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more
Quit thinking of this as a glitch or a mistake, this is a robbery, so... Follow the money!
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."

"We don't rent pigs!"
The Gallows

User ID: 1311324
United States
08/01/2012 07:06 PM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more
Here, a story on that one

[link to dealbook.nytimes.com]

AUGUST 1, 2012, 10:19 AM

Hedge Fund Titan Plans to Return $2 Billion to Investors

Louis M. Bacon, who together with Paul Tudor Jones and George Soros has come to define this style of high-stakes macro investing for more than 20 years, said in a letter to his investors on Wednesday that he would be giving back $2 billion, about one quarter of the size his benchmark Moore Global Investment fund.

He cited 18 months of what he called “disappointing” investment returns — and a particularly tough second quarter this year when his main fund was down 3.18 percent.

But with senior political figures in Europe favoring summit meetings, bailouts and more austerity as opposed to recognizing losses, making a bet that would move the needle on an $8 billion asset pile became difficult.

“The political involvement is so extreme — we have not seen this since the post-war era,” Mr. Bacon said. “And what they are doing is trying to thwart natural market outcomes. It is amazing how important the decision-making of one person, Angela Merkel, has become to world markets.”
 Quoting: Baltar


I will savor the day these bastards are on my steps.
rhombus will set you free...

some try to tell me thoughts they cannot defend. just what you want to be, you will be in the end!

if you can't face the truth it's probably raping you from behind.
Baltar  (OP)

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08/01/2012 10:30 PM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more
Quit thinking of this as a glitch or a mistake, this is a robbery, so... Follow the money!
 Quoting: Saddletramp


I wanted to tell you some of the details I learned this afternoon

fascinating

even my friend the quant does not think this is normal in any sense...and he used to work for KCG writing exactly the algos that blew up this morning
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.
~Marcus Aurelius
Baltar  (OP)

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08/01/2012 10:36 PM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more
.......

Last Edited by Baltar on 08/01/2012 10:55 PM
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.
~Marcus Aurelius
Baltar  (OP)

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08/01/2012 10:39 PM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more
.......

Last Edited by Baltar on 08/01/2012 10:54 PM
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.
~Marcus Aurelius
Saddletramp

User ID: 726900
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08/01/2012 11:50 PM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more
Quit thinking of this as a glitch or a mistake, this is a robbery, so... Follow the money!
 Quoting: Saddletramp


I wanted to tell you some of the details I learned this afternoon

fascinating

even my friend the quant does not think this is normal in any sense...and he used to work for KCG writing exactly the algos that blew up this morning
 Quoting: Baltar


Sorry, I was signing in on my iphone, and I can't do much while I'm on that, it's a pain in the ass....

Last Edited by Saddletramp on 08/01/2012 11:54 PM
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."

"We don't rent pigs!"
Marxist

User ID: 2017517
New Zealand
08/02/2012 12:09 AM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more
just buy volatility i knew that was the play this morning
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3297006


I am recommending:

$GS $95 weekly puts
$EWZ $52 and $50 weekly puts
$FAZ $23 weekly calls
$SPY 133 lotto puts @ .10c

Re volatility, I hesitate to recommend $VXX calls, because the VIX esp VXX , like Libor, have been so manipulated to make beleive everything is fine, that VXX will go down even if everything else is falling apart

Risky
 Quoting: Baltar


You EWZ put spread looks pretty tidy from where i'm sitting...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18912621


Im up about 300% on $EWZ puts. They ran up emerging market ETFs on the blah blah BS about the pumping by the fed, ECB

However, China is falling apart, Brazil is way overbought for now. It will go the way of India, and the other emerging market stories which have been the story for the past decade

Nothing against those countries, but everything is cyclical, and nothing goes straight up. It reaches a point you cannot pump more money into a developing economy without triggering massive inflation, which makes their exports uncompetitive, and leads to a loss of the very fundamentals which made it an attractive investment to start with

EWZ, EEM shorts on any overbought RSI chart is as close as you get to an easy trade in this awful market

But unless you have nerves of steel, and are willing to only risk very little and take profits fast, I wouldn't recommend most be in this

It really does feel more and more like we are in the end game for the markets, like the tissue paper holding the machine together is tearing apart

hope I'm wrong
 Quoting: Baltar


So you use indicators?
Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Anonymous Coward
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Portugal
08/02/2012 08:18 AM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more
1 minErik Schatzker‏@ErikSchatzker

Knight Capital sees $440M pretax loss on botched trades $KCG
Anonymous Coward
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08/02/2012 08:20 AM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more
1 minzerohedge‏@zerohedge

Knight Capital's loss is just under half of what it's market cap was before the insane vacuum tubes took over
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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United States
08/02/2012 08:55 AM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more
Quit thinking of this as a glitch or a mistake, this is a robbery, so... Follow the money!
 Quoting: Saddletramp


I wanted to tell you some of the details I learned this afternoon

fascinating

even my friend the quant does not think this is normal in any sense...and he used to work for KCG writing exactly the algos that blew up this morning
 Quoting: Baltar


Sorry, I was signing in on my iphone, and I can't do much while I'm on that, it's a pain in the ass....
 Quoting: Saddletramp



Futures -10%

$KCG -59% $2.89 : KNIGHT CAPITAL PLUNGES 40% AFTER REPORTING MASSIVE LOSSES AND 'SEVERELY' AFFECTED CAPITAL BASE

[link to www.businessinsider.com]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 14348632
United States
08/02/2012 08:57 AM
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Re: Breaking: Trading Halts, Market Disorder & Chaos > NITE market maker quotes off by 10% > more
...


I am recommending:

$GS $95 weekly puts
$EWZ $52 and $50 weekly puts
$FAZ $23 weekly calls
$SPY 133 lotto puts @ .10c

Re volatility, I hesitate to recommend $VXX calls, because the VIX esp VXX , like Libor, have been so manipulated to make beleive everything is fine, that VXX will go down even if everything else is falling apart

Risky
 Quoting: Baltar


You EWZ put spread looks pretty tidy from where i'm sitting...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18912621


Im up about 300% on $EWZ puts. They ran up emerging market ETFs on the blah blah BS about the pumping by the fed, ECB

However, China is falling apart, Brazil is way overbought for now. It will go the way of India, and the other emerging market stories which have been the story for the past decade

Nothing against those countries, but everything is cyclical, and nothing goes straight up. It reaches a point you cannot pump more money into a developing economy without triggering massive inflation, which makes their exports uncompetitive, and leads to a loss of the very fundamentals which made it an attractive investment to start with

EWZ, EEM shorts on any overbought RSI chart is as close as you get to an easy trade in this awful market

But unless you have nerves of steel, and are willing to only risk very little and take profits fast, I wouldn't recommend most be in this

It really does feel more and more like we are in the end game for the markets, like the tissue paper holding the machine together is tearing apart

hope I'm wrong
 Quoting: Baltar


So you use indicators?
 Quoting: Marxist


A combination of technicals and fundamentals

I'm currently fine tuning a combination of indicators - you might say an algorithm - for trading weekly options

I started as an analyst back in 1985





GLP