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VENUS! Not MARS!

 
Venutian Paradise
User ID: 694654
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08/18/2012 08:39 AM
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VENUS! Not MARS!
I have no idea why we are playing around on Mars, it's a near absolute-zero frozen wasteland. Yeah, some spots on the equator get up to 20C/68F at high noon on a summer day, but it's the rare occassion, not a common occurance. Mars is VERY far away, and 100% of building/life-support supplies, including air and water, would have to come from earth - expensive as hell. Human waste would just freeze and hang around for millions of years, the gravity would destroy your muscles and bones, there's nowhere to go, and nothing to do. You would need a heavily insulated pressurized suit to walk around, and if it ripped, you better do something about it quickly, or you're dead. It is so far from the Sun that solar energy would be very impractical - and drilling for oil is out of the question. The only choice left would be nuclear power. Living on Mars would be nothing less than an ultra-expensive nightmare.

BUT ...

The atmosphere of Venus 96.5% CO2 by volume, 3.5% N2. Early evidence pointed to sulfuric acid content in the atmosphere, but we now know that that is a rather minor constituent of the atmosphere. It has PLENTY of Oxygen (MUCH more than Earth), from all the Carbon Dioxide, which can be transformed by plants. It has the same gravity as Earth! It has plenty of sunlight from all directions due to the way the clouds disperse light, and lots of thermal energy, all free. It has Nitrogen, for fertilizer/nitrogen-fixation, and for breathable air. The only thing that may be in short supply is Hydrogen, for water (I am not sure! Maybe some water is in the clouds!), but Venus is only 35 million miles away from Earth, and sending H2 now and then would be a heck of a lot cheaper than sending tanks of water to Mars! Waste disposal is no problem on Venus! The whole surface is a crematorium! We know hardly nothing about the planet, but it may have valuable minerals for mining. I have NO IDEA why anyone is interested in Mars! Read on!

--

Despite the harsh conditions on the surface, the atmospheric pressure and temperature at about 50 km to 65 km above the surface of the planet is nearly the same as that of the Earth, making its upper atmosphere the most Earth-like area in the Solar System, even more so than the surface of Mars. Due to the similarity in pressure and temperature and the fact that breathable air (21% oxygen, 78% nitrogen) is a lifting gas on Venus in the same way that helium is a lifting gas on Earth, the upper atmosphere has been proposed as a location for both exploration and colonization.

Venus has a high albedo, and reflects most of the sunlight that shines on it making the surface quite dark, the upper atmosphere at 60 km has an upward solar intensity of 90%, meaning that solar panels on both the top and the bottom of a craft could be used with nearly equal efficiency. In addition to this, the slightly lower gravity, high air pressure and slow rotation allowing for perpetual solar power make this part of the planet ideal for exploration.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Geoffrey Landis is a scientist at NASA’s Glenn Research Center. Landis knows Venus’ surface itself is pretty much out of the question for human habitation. But up about 50 kilometers above the surface, Landis says the atmosphere of Venus is the most Earth-like environment, other than Earth itself, in the solar system. Landis proposes floating cities on Venus where people could live and work, as well as study the planet below.

50 km above the surface, Venus has air pressure of approximately 1 bar and temperatures in the 0C-50C range, a quite comfortable environment for humans. Humans wouldn’t require pressurized suits when outside, but would need air to breathe and protection from the sulfuric acid in the atmosphere.

In looking at Venus, the fact that struck Landis the most is that Earth’s atmosphere of nitrogen and oxygen would actually float in Venus’ atmosphere of carbon dioxide. “Because the atmosphere of Venus is CO2, the gases that we live in all the time, nitrogen and oxygen, would be a lifting gas,” he said.

“If you could just take the room you’re sitting in and replace the walls with something thinner, the room would float on Venus,” said Landis.

[link to www.universetoday.com]

Landis has proposed aerostat habitats followed by floating cities, based on the concept that breathable air (21:79 Oxygen-Nitrogen mixture) is a lifting gas in the dense carbon dioxide atmosphere, with over 60% of the lifting power that helium has on Earth. In effect, a balloon full of human-breathable air would sustain itself and extra weight (such as a colony) in midair. At an altitude of 50 km above Venusian surface, the environment is the most Earth-like in the solar system – a pressure of approximately 1 bar and temperatures in the 0°C–50°C range.

Because there is not a significant pressure difference between the inside and the outside of the breathable-air balloon, any rips or tears would cause gases to diffuse at normal atmospheric mixing rates, giving time to repair any such damages. In addition, humans would not require pressurized suits when outside, merely air to breathe, a protection from the acidic rain; and on some occasions low level protection against heat. Alternatively, two-part domes could contain a lifting gas like hydrogen or helium (extractable from the atmosphere) to allow a higher mass density.

At the top of the clouds the wind speed on Venus reaches up to 95 m/s (approximately 212 mph), circling the planet approximately every four Earth days in a phenomenon known as "super-rotation". Colonies floating in this region could therefore have a much shorter day length by remaining untethered to the ground and moving with the atmosphere. Allowing a colony to move freely would also reduce structural stress from the wind.

[link to www.startramfans.com]

Read more here! Mars sucks!

[link to www.google.com]
Anonymous Coward
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08/18/2012 08:44 AM
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Re: VENUS! Not MARS!
Living on Mars would be nothing less than an ultra-expensive nightmare banana2 nowhere escape from earth
Anonymous Coward
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08/18/2012 09:20 AM
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Re: VENUS! Not MARS!
Sling shoot it
Anonymous Coward
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08/18/2012 09:22 AM
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Re: VENUS! Not MARS!
You only need a no space touch forceball around it to move it.

Or tractor beam with drivers licence b
Anonymous Coward
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08/18/2012 09:24 AM
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Re: VENUS! Not MARS!
Set uv on 9 or something and
Being * gnieB

User ID: 14631884
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08/18/2012 09:26 AM
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Re: VENUS! Not MARS!
Average Surface Temperatures;

venus: 449°c or 850°f
earth: 7.2°c or 45°f
mars: -55°c or -67°f
jupiter: -153°C or -244°F
saturn: -184°C or -300°F
uranus: -184°C or -300°F
neptune: -223°C or -370°F
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/18/2012 09:30 AM
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Re: VENUS! Not MARS!
It's not about the surface dumb F!
Anonymous Coward
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08/18/2012 09:53 AM
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Re: VENUS! Not MARS!
Floating around above the surface of hell in a
sulphuric acid mist is not my idea of paradise,
which, by the way, Earth is.

God created the most beautiful planet imaginable,
perfectly suited for man, yet people dream of going
to absolutely uninhabitable places.

It sounds like the ravings of madmen.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/18/2012 10:02 AM
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Re: VENUS! Not MARS!
Can't anyone read? What is wrong with you people? There is only TRACE AMOUNTS of sulfuric acid, as there is on Earth if you live next to a coal power plant!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/18/2012 10:06 AM
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Re: VENUS! Not MARS!
The point is WE CAN LIVE THERE NOW! You just make a geodesic dome - AND IT WILL FLOAT LIKE A BUBBLE with normal Earth air, and Venus contains everything in the air that you need to live. It doesn't require supplies. I guess I just don't know why we are on MARS! If we want to leave Earth, we can do it NOW.

Maybe it would be nice to look at the little blue marble with all it's troubles, and think "wow, I am glad I am not living in that mess anymore!"
Anonymous Coward
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08/18/2012 10:29 AM
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Re: VENUS! Not MARS!
The point is WE CAN LIVE THERE NOW! You just make a geodesic dome - AND IT WILL FLOAT LIKE A BUBBLE with normal Earth air, and Venus contains everything in the air that you need to live. It doesn't require supplies. I guess I just don't know why we are on MARS! If we want to leave Earth, we can do it NOW.

Maybe it would be nice to look at the little blue marble with all it's troubles, and think "wow, I am glad I am not living in that mess anymore!"
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 694654


As far away from the Sun as we are and the number of posts about how the Sun is going to kill us with this or that, I could imagine what it'd be like to be that much closer on Venus. If something were to ever happen with the Sun expanding and turning this place inhabitable, Mars is the closest most possible solution that mankind has to survive. I think if we were to invest into this crazy pipedream of inhabiting other planets, the closest to where we are without getting any closer to the Sun the better.

Think of it as a sort of price is right type scenario and Earth is the correct price. Everything closer than the Earth to the Sun is a price above the correct price.

Regardless, there isn't a person on this Earth currently that will visit another Planet and ever return back to this one, unless an alien lifeform presents a technology and destination that can sustain human life
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/18/2012 10:53 AM
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Re: VENUS! Not MARS!
No, when the Sun turns into a Red Giant, it will be the end, regardless of if you are on Venus, Mercury, or Mars. But that's about 5 billion years from now.

Besides, Venus is DARK on the surface, because its atmosphere is thicker than Earth's, and blocks much more sun than Earth.

Please ask away, or criticize, I know a lot of things sometimes!
Anonymous Coward
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08/18/2012 10:59 AM
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Re: VENUS! Not MARS!
So it IS true then? that Women actually came from Venus? And Men came from Mars? and since NASA is run by men, they want to take us back there...
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/18/2012 11:04 AM
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Re: VENUS! Not MARS!
Well, it's like this: you can take as many women as you want in your geodesic bubble, and once you are in orbit around Venus, you can have your way with them, and they can never leave :)
Anonymous Coward
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08/18/2012 11:09 AM
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Re: VENUS! Not MARS!
Back in the 1970's, NASA was talking about sending a vehicle loaded with blue-green algae to dump in the atmosphere. They said it would do the same thing that it did in the early part of Earth's evolution. It absorbed CO2 and released O2 as part of the life process.

I'd love to see it done in my lifetime!
Anonymous Coward
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08/18/2012 11:09 AM
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Re: VENUS! Not MARS!
So it IS true then? that Women actually came from Venus? And Men came from Mars? and since NASA is run by men, they want to take us back there...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15616397


It is a mans world after all ;)
Anonymous Coward
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08/18/2012 11:11 AM
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Re: VENUS! Not MARS!
Back in the 1970's, NASA was talking about sending a vehicle loaded with blue-green algae to dump in the atmosphere. They said it would do the same thing that it did in the early part of Earth's evolution. It absorbed CO2 and released O2 as part of the life process.

I'd love to see it done in my lifetime!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22070416


[link to www.xenology.info]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/18/2012 11:16 AM
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Re: VENUS! Not MARS!
Yes, in fact, bacteria livein the clouds on Earth, and this is even a richer atmosphere. But that isn't necessary, people could live there NOW, as it is NOW. 45-60km is a sweet spot in the atmosphere, EXACTLY LIKE EARTH, and it won't take energy to float around there, and you would have everything you need for life.

Plants would grow 3-4x faster in a greenhouse with abundant CO2 and sun, which would supply you with endless oxygen. The atmosphere has almost everything a person and greenhouse would need to survive. I mean, you may need some trace minerals like Magnesium & Iodine, but the most necessary and common things are available. Oxygen, Nitrogen, Sulfur, Hydrogen/Helium, Water (I guess), normal gravity & pressure, free energy, etc. And once enough colonies are established, I am sure they will figure out a way to mine things and make some cool cave habitats.
Anonymous Coward
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08/18/2012 11:53 AM
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Re: VENUS! Not MARS!
Mars can be reterriformed
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/18/2012 04:46 PM
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Re: VENUS! Not MARS!
There is no atmosphere on Mars, only 1% of Earths, and it is doubtful there is any water (it would sublimate into space). And even if there was an atmosphere, the planet and gravity are too small to make the air dense and heavy enough to live in it. And the gravity would still weaken your body, possibly lethaly over time. Do you realize how much it would cost to send buildings and supplies to Mars? On a continual basis? Launching a rocket for a roomful of material?

The Venus atmosphere and gravity are perfect @ 50k. If you read the 1st post, you would see that. Orbiting colonies wouldn't need supplies very often. It's closer too. It has everything you need for all the basics: energy, food, gravity, air-pressure, Oxygen (90x more than Earth!), Nitrogen, Hydrogen/Helium, Sulfur (important "mineral" for plants and people and other chemistry), Water (I guess, since there's clouds!), Waste Disposal ...

With only a few supplemental elements like Magnesium, Potassium, etc, for plants, you could have everything you need to live. You could possibly have a Aquaculture system, and have fish too.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/18/2012 06:02 PM
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Re: VENUS! Not MARS!
Let me tell you how comfy it would be:

You could take some Titanium (or other suitable metal/plastic) poles for a frame, lay down some plastic tiles, like 1/4" thick, then wrap the frame with Saran Wrap, and sail around in your shorts, t-shirt, and sandals.

That is how comfy the Venus atmosphere is. You could open a window and pull something in, or throw something out. You wouldn't feel any wind, because you are riding on the wind. You don't have to worry about birds or bird poop hitting you, because the atmosphere is pure gas, there are no animals. If you accidently ripped the side, you could casually take some tape and lay it on the tear.

You would have an altimeter/air-pressure/temperature gauge like sky-divers wear, and it would alert you if you needed to add some Hydrogen/Helium/Oxygen/Nitrogen to a ballast (your little home at this point), or dump some, and of course, this could all be done automatically, so you could just enjoy life.

That is how friendly the Venus Atmosphere is. As friendly as a Dingy on a calm lake with no breeze on a nice Spring or Summer day.
penus and arss
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12/08/2014 07:23 PM
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Re: VENUS! Not MARS!
Can't anyone read?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 694654


no

and you know who runs fraudlike products

but you are correct
venus is where the good ppl go

Thread: Earth is turning into Mars......Venus will become the new Earth!

Thread: the white sun, venus and mars
Anonymous Coward
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12/08/2014 07:25 PM
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Re: VENUS! Not MARS!
So it IS true then? that Women actually came from Venus? And Men came from Mars? and since NASA is run by men, they want to take us back there...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15616397


It is a mans world after all ;)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12547533


men are demented females
all humans begin as female
[lifegiving]
Anonymous Coward
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12/08/2014 07:36 PM
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Re: VENUS! Not MARS!
because we come from mars and the die hards want to find a way to go back
Anonymous Coward
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06/13/2016 04:10 AM
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Re: VENUS! Not MARS!
nasa all lies the sun is above the flat earth planet's climate based on core and atmosphere moon is a flat satelite earth is planet x
Bingo
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06/13/2016 04:33 AM
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Re: VENUS! Not MARS!
Wow I did not know that, very intelligent being you are. Thank you.
Anonymous Coward
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06/13/2016 04:37 AM
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Re: VENUS! Not MARS!
I hear Jupiter is all the rave
Anonymous Coward
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06/13/2016 04:44 AM
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Re: VENUS! Not MARS!
And most people think that the jews just get banned from country's over millennia

They actually get banned from planets

You gotta do some fucked up shit to get planet banned
Anonymous Coward
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06/13/2016 04:45 AM
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Re: VENUS! Not MARS!
So it IS true then? that Women actually came from Venus? And Men came from Mars? and since NASA is run by men, they want to take us back there...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15616397


It is a mans world after all ;)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12547533


men are demented females
all humans begin as female
[lifegiving]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 65869014


then you grow a pair of nuts and chromosome.
3 things you lack





GLP