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What led me to Christianity

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 24648161
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09/30/2012 11:51 AM
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What led me to Christianity
I was a new ager for many years.

A popular topic among new agers, is near death experiences.

Now, most people assume near death experiences (NDE) are merely a hallucination, a part of the person's imaginations, or, a construct of the subconscious.

But, this is false for one main reason, and this is due to what's called 'veridical information'.

What's veridical information?

During the near death experiences, people will come across information that was impossible for them to know about, but after having the NDE and returning to their bodies, this information can verified to be true down to the exact details.

What does this mean?

This means, it was impossible for the person to have merely imagined the experience, and gives strong evidence, that what was seen in the NDE is an actual reality.

Here are some real examples.

A woman has a NDE, she then floats to the top of the hospital, and sees a single shoe. After the NDE, she verifies that the shoe was indeed there.

A woman is taken out of her body, and sees a heavenly place, with those who were deceased. She finds out information, from these people that she didn't know about. But after returning to her body, she was then able to verify the information with the deceased person's family members. The information was highly detailed and specific. The family members of the deceased person, verified that what the woman stated was true down to the exact details.

And there's many more cases, of NDE's, that contain veridical information.

Now, going back, the NDE that are mentioned in new age books. In these NDEs, we only learn of postive NDE's. This is typical, a person, leaves their body, goes to through a tunnel of light, has a life review, see deceased relatives, and may go further and see an actual heavenly location, which may even include trees, river, park, etc.

So, most will assume these people were merely imagining this, but, again, due to 'veridical information', this gives strong evidence that it was impossible for them to merely imagine this.

So, again, if one merely studies positve NDE's, we can then assume, everyone will go to a wonderful afterlife, meaning there's no hell. And therefore, most religions are false.

But

A book, was recently released by the International Association of Near Death Studies. In this book, one learns that there's both negative and positive near death experiences.

In addition, there's many other sources, where one can learn about negative NDEs.

What can one learn from these negative NDEs? That there's indeed a fiery hell, with various levels of punishments. Now most state, these are only a product of the mind, or, that these merely correspond to the person's level of consciousness.

But, again, due to veridical information, people coming across information that was impossible to know about, but, was later proven to be true down to the exact details, this again gives strong evidence that this is indeed a real reality.

Do only Christians who believe in heaven and hell see this? No, there's Christians, many atheists, and non-Christians who are also seeing heaven and hell.

So now that we have evidence of a heaven and hell. This still doesn't narrow down the religion, since many religions also believe in heaven and hell.

Again, the recently released book by a non-Christian organization, shares two NDEs. One by an atheist, and one by a non-Christian. In both of their NDEs, they both see hell, and both see Jesus.

Are there more cases? Yes, there's more cases of non-Christians who don't believe in heaven, hell, nor Jesus, but, still see heaven, hell, or Jesus in their NDEs.

A part of me, still didn't want to believe this, since I still had ingrained in me new age views, that all would go to a heavenly location. So, I looked over more and more NDEs, but, the more I researched, the more confident I became that Christians are indeed correct.

In addition to the veridical information, and non-Christains, also seeing heaven, hell, Jesus, etc, and there's another important element that gives even further evidence that this is indeed true.

If you study demonology, the priests / exorcists, will often say that demons will give off a sulphur smell. It's believed that some demons reside in hell. Now if demons, can come from hell, we would also expect them to smell like hell correct? Again, notice the that exorcists will say they smell like sulphur.

Now there's been many cases of those having a hellish NDE, will also describe hell with a sulphur smell.

The Bible also states, this about hell, that it's a lake of fire, burning with sulphur.

Also what evidence, do we have that demons are even real?

When someone gets possessed by demons, they have access to information that was impossible for them to know about. To test this, there's been cases of demon possessed people, sharing information, that was impossible for them to know about, but, was later proven to be true down to the exact details. Meaning, the demon possessed person wasn't merely suffering from a mental illness.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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09/30/2012 11:58 AM
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Re: What led me to Christianity
One may now state, the above NDEs could also be describing the Islamic view of the afterlife.

But, there's two more NDE cases, that I want to share that further proves Islam is false.

In both of these NDEs, the woman and the boy, both come across information that was impossible for them to know about, but, was later proven to be true down to the exact details. Again, this is very strong evidence that they didn't merely imagine this.

In both NDE's, the boy and woman both see Jesus. In addition, they also see the wounds where he was crucified.

In Islam, it's believed that Jesus was never crucified.
Anonymous Coward
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09/30/2012 11:59 AM
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Re: What led me to Christianity
so lets see, you gave up being I AM THAT I AM and labeled yourself first a new ager and then a dark christian? whatever for?
Anonymous Coward
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09/30/2012 11:59 AM
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Re: What led me to Christianity
so lets see, you gave up being I AM THAT I AM and labeled yourself first a new ager and then a dark christian? whatever for?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24358110


stop the need to follow and define yourself by any paradigm other than your own.
Anonymous Coward
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09/30/2012 12:11 PM
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Re: What led me to Christianity
I was a new ager for many years.

A popular topic among new agers, is near death experiences.

Now, most people assume near death experiences (NDE) are merely a hallucination, a part of the person's imaginations, or, a construct of the subconscious.

But, this is false for one main reason, and this is due to what's called 'veridical information'.

What's veridical information?

During the near death experiences, people will come across information that was impossible for them to know about, but after having the NDE and returning to their bodies, this information can verified to be true down to the exact details.

What does this mean?

This means, it was impossible for the person to have merely imagined the experience, and gives strong evidence, that what was seen in the NDE is an actual reality.

Here are some real examples.

A woman has a NDE, she then floats to the top of the hospital, and sees a single shoe. After the NDE, she verifies that the shoe was indeed there.

A woman is taken out of her body, and sees a heavenly place, with those who were deceased. She finds out information, from these people that she didn't know about. But after returning to her body, she was then able to verify the information with the deceased person's family members. The information was highly detailed and specific. The family members of the deceased person, verified that what the woman stated was true down to the exact details.

And there's many more cases, of NDE's, that contain veridical information.

Now, going back, the NDE that are mentioned in new age books. In these NDEs, we only learn of postive NDE's. This is typical, a person, leaves their body, goes to through a tunnel of light, has a life review, see deceased relatives, and may go further and see an actual heavenly location, which may even include trees, river, park, etc.

So, most will assume these people were merely imagining this, but, again, due to 'veridical information', this gives strong evidence that it was impossible for them to merely imagine this.

So, again, if one merely studies positve NDE's, we can then assume, everyone will go to a wonderful afterlife, meaning there's no hell. And therefore, most religions are false.

But

A book, was recently released by the International Association of Near Death Studies. In this book, one learns that there's both negative and positive near death experiences.

In addition, there's many other sources, where one can learn about negative NDEs.

What can one learn from these negative NDEs? That there's indeed a fiery hell, with various levels of punishments. Now most state, these are only a product of the mind, or, that these merely correspond to the person's level of consciousness.

But, again, due to veridical information, people coming across information that was impossible to know about, but, was later proven to be true down to the exact details, this again gives strong evidence that this is indeed a real reality.

Do only Christians who believe in heaven and hell see this? No, there's Christians, many atheists, and non-Christians who are also seeing heaven and hell.

So now that we have evidence of a heaven and hell. This still doesn't narrow down the religion, since many religions also believe in heaven and hell.

Again, the recently released book by a non-Christian organization, shares two NDEs. One by an atheist, and one by a non-Christian. In both of their NDEs, they both see hell, and both see Jesus.

Are there more cases? Yes, there's more cases of non-Christians who don't believe in heaven, hell, nor Jesus, but, still see heaven, hell, or Jesus in their NDEs.

A part of me, still didn't want to believe this, since I still had ingrained in me new age views, that all would go to a heavenly location. So, I looked over more and more NDEs, but, the more I researched, the more confident I became that Christians are indeed correct.

In addition to the veridical information, and non-Christains, also seeing heaven, hell, Jesus, etc, and there's another important element that gives even further evidence that this is indeed true.

If you study demonology, the priests / exorcists, will often say that demons will give off a sulphur smell. It's believed that some demons reside in hell. Now if demons, can come from hell, we would also expect them to smell like hell correct? Again, notice the that exorcists will say they smell like sulphur.

Now there's been many cases of those having a hellish NDE, will also describe hell with a sulphur smell.

The Bible also states, this about hell, that it's a lake of fire, burning with sulphur.

Also what evidence, do we have that demons are even real?

When someone gets possessed by demons, they have access to information that was impossible for them to know about. To test this, there's been cases of demon possessed people, sharing information, that was impossible for them to know about, but, was later proven to be true down to the exact details. Meaning, the demon possessed person wasn't merely suffering from a mental illness.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24648161

You are the typical Christian who will believe anything that goes along with your idea about the afterlife. How do you honestly know that the people who have these experiences are dead? They are clearly not dead. No one is dead until they have been pronounced dead and these people are still living.

You talk about veridical information and you think this proves that the Christian God is real. You are sadly mistaken. First of all, do you honestly believe everything you hear? Unless you have experienced a veridical experience yourself, you should not just blindly accept it. Do you believe, for instance, in those television programs where psychics talk to dead people? Do you believe in the stories of people who are abducted by UFOs? Do you believe the various accounts of people who claim to be reincarnated and can remember their past lives? If I am correct about you, and I think I am, you only believe what you WANT to believe.

There is no proof for veridical information. Those stories, which are very few, by the way, could simply be made up stories. You want to believe in Jesus so you will believe anything that supports that. If you wanted to believe in reincarnation, you would support all those stories. If you wanted to believe in UFOs, you would believe the people who claim to be abducted.

Just because you READ something or HEAR something does not make it true. You claim people "SEE" Jesus so you know the Christian God HAS to be the correct one. So what does Jesus look like. Is he that white man with long brown hair that we see in drawings? You are clearly childish, gullible, and impressionable. You would believe ANYTHING that supported what you WANT TO BELIEVE. A lot of people do this but that doesn't make what you want to believe true.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 24648161
United States
09/30/2012 12:12 PM
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Re: What led me to Christianity
so lets see, you gave up being I AM THAT I AM and labeled yourself first a new ager and then a dark christian? whatever for?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24358110


stop the need to follow and define yourself by any paradigm other than your own.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24358110


Yes, I had this view once, and still incorporate to a degree. When I was a non-Christian, I had a dream of Bruce Lee.

I was then curious and studied his fighting system.

In his system, Bruce borrowed from various systems, and ultimately used what actually worked.

When we give labels to say his fighting system. It now has rules and forms. This can limit, the growth of the system.

Likewise, if we give labels to ourselves, we can them sub-consciously limit our growth, perspective, and views.

So even with new agers, this allows much freedom for growth and exploration. But, I found at the highest level, it still limits your perspective.

Therefore, I dropped even this label. To even more fully explore without any restrictions. This led me to other evidences. But now, one can now reach a point, where if you refuse, to accept and acknowledge evidence, since you don't want a label. Ironically, you can then limit yourself. But like I said, I still incorporate, this mentality to a degree to further my learning.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 24648161
United States
09/30/2012 12:13 PM
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Re: What led me to Christianity
I was a new ager for many years.

A popular topic among new agers, is near death experiences.

Now, most people assume near death experiences (NDE) are merely a hallucination, a part of the person's imaginations, or, a construct of the subconscious.

But, this is false for one main reason, and this is due to what's called 'veridical information'.

What's veridical information?

During the near death experiences, people will come across information that was impossible for them to know about, but after having the NDE and returning to their bodies, this information can verified to be true down to the exact details.

What does this mean?

This means, it was impossible for the person to have merely imagined the experience, and gives strong evidence, that what was seen in the NDE is an actual reality.

Here are some real examples.

A woman has a NDE, she then floats to the top of the hospital, and sees a single shoe. After the NDE, she verifies that the shoe was indeed there.

A woman is taken out of her body, and sees a heavenly place, with those who were deceased. She finds out information, from these people that she didn't know about. But after returning to her body, she was then able to verify the information with the deceased person's family members. The information was highly detailed and specific. The family members of the deceased person, verified that what the woman stated was true down to the exact details.

And there's many more cases, of NDE's, that contain veridical information.

Now, going back, the NDE that are mentioned in new age books. In these NDEs, we only learn of postive NDE's. This is typical, a person, leaves their body, goes to through a tunnel of light, has a life review, see deceased relatives, and may go further and see an actual heavenly location, which may even include trees, river, park, etc.

So, most will assume these people were merely imagining this, but, again, due to 'veridical information', this gives strong evidence that it was impossible for them to merely imagine this.

So, again, if one merely studies positve NDE's, we can then assume, everyone will go to a wonderful afterlife, meaning there's no hell. And therefore, most religions are false.

But

A book, was recently released by the International Association of Near Death Studies. In this book, one learns that there's both negative and positive near death experiences.

In addition, there's many other sources, where one can learn about negative NDEs.

What can one learn from these negative NDEs? That there's indeed a fiery hell, with various levels of punishments. Now most state, these are only a product of the mind, or, that these merely correspond to the person's level of consciousness.

But, again, due to veridical information, people coming across information that was impossible to know about, but, was later proven to be true down to the exact details, this again gives strong evidence that this is indeed a real reality.

Do only Christians who believe in heaven and hell see this? No, there's Christians, many atheists, and non-Christians who are also seeing heaven and hell.

So now that we have evidence of a heaven and hell. This still doesn't narrow down the religion, since many religions also believe in heaven and hell.

Again, the recently released book by a non-Christian organization, shares two NDEs. One by an atheist, and one by a non-Christian. In both of their NDEs, they both see hell, and both see Jesus.

Are there more cases? Yes, there's more cases of non-Christians who don't believe in heaven, hell, nor Jesus, but, still see heaven, hell, or Jesus in their NDEs.

A part of me, still didn't want to believe this, since I still had ingrained in me new age views, that all would go to a heavenly location. So, I looked over more and more NDEs, but, the more I researched, the more confident I became that Christians are indeed correct.

In addition to the veridical information, and non-Christains, also seeing heaven, hell, Jesus, etc, and there's another important element that gives even further evidence that this is indeed true.

If you study demonology, the priests / exorcists, will often say that demons will give off a sulphur smell. It's believed that some demons reside in hell. Now if demons, can come from hell, we would also expect them to smell like hell correct? Again, notice the that exorcists will say they smell like sulphur.

Now there's been many cases of those having a hellish NDE, will also describe hell with a sulphur smell.

The Bible also states, this about hell, that it's a lake of fire, burning with sulphur.

Also what evidence, do we have that demons are even real?

When someone gets possessed by demons, they have access to information that was impossible for them to know about. To test this, there's been cases of demon possessed people, sharing information, that was impossible for them to know about, but, was later proven to be true down to the exact details. Meaning, the demon possessed person wasn't merely suffering from a mental illness.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24648161

You are the typical Christian who will believe anything that goes along with your idea about the afterlife. How do you honestly know that the people who have these experiences are dead? They are clearly not dead. No one is dead until they have been pronounced dead and these people are still living.

You talk about veridical information and you think this proves that the Christian God is real. You are sadly mistaken. First of all, do you honestly believe everything you hear? Unless you have experienced a veridical experience yourself, you should not just blindly accept it. Do you believe, for instance, in those television programs where psychics talk to dead people? Do you believe in the stories of people who are abducted by UFOs? Do you believe the various accounts of people who claim to be reincarnated and can remember their past lives? If I am correct about you, and I think I am, you only believe what you WANT to believe.

There is no proof for veridical information. Those stories, which are very few, by the way, could simply be made up stories. You want to believe in Jesus so you will believe anything that supports that. If you wanted to believe in reincarnation, you would support all those stories. If you wanted to believe in UFOs, you would believe the people who claim to be abducted.

Just because you READ something or HEAR something does not make it true. You claim people "SEE" Jesus so you know the Christian God HAS to be the correct one. So what does Jesus look like. Is he that white man with long brown hair that we see in drawings? You are clearly childish, gullible, and impressionable. You would believe ANYTHING that supported what you WANT TO BELIEVE. A lot of people do this but that doesn't make what you want to believe true.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


I have personally experienced this.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 24648161
United States
09/30/2012 12:18 PM
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Re: What led me to Christianity
I was a new ager for many years.

A popular topic among new agers, is near death experiences.

Now, most people assume near death experiences (NDE) are merely a hallucination, a part of the person's imaginations, or, a construct of the subconscious.

But, this is false for one main reason, and this is due to what's called 'veridical information'.

What's veridical information?

During the near death experiences, people will come across information that was impossible for them to know about, but after having the NDE and returning to their bodies, this information can verified to be true down to the exact details.

What does this mean?

This means, it was impossible for the person to have merely imagined the experience, and gives strong evidence, that what was seen in the NDE is an actual reality.

Here are some real examples.

A woman has a NDE, she then floats to the top of the hospital, and sees a single shoe. After the NDE, she verifies that the shoe was indeed there.

A woman is taken out of her body, and sees a heavenly place, with those who were deceased. She finds out information, from these people that she didn't know about. But after returning to her body, she was then able to verify the information with the deceased person's family members. The information was highly detailed and specific. The family members of the deceased person, verified that what the woman stated was true down to the exact details.

And there's many more cases, of NDE's, that contain veridical information.

Now, going back, the NDE that are mentioned in new age books. In these NDEs, we only learn of postive NDE's. This is typical, a person, leaves their body, goes to through a tunnel of light, has a life review, see deceased relatives, and may go further and see an actual heavenly location, which may even include trees, river, park, etc.

So, most will assume these people were merely imagining this, but, again, due to 'veridical information', this gives strong evidence that it was impossible for them to merely imagine this.

So, again, if one merely studies positve NDE's, we can then assume, everyone will go to a wonderful afterlife, meaning there's no hell. And therefore, most religions are false.

But

A book, was recently released by the International Association of Near Death Studies. In this book, one learns that there's both negative and positive near death experiences.

In addition, there's many other sources, where one can learn about negative NDEs.

What can one learn from these negative NDEs? That there's indeed a fiery hell, with various levels of punishments. Now most state, these are only a product of the mind, or, that these merely correspond to the person's level of consciousness.

But, again, due to veridical information, people coming across information that was impossible to know about, but, was later proven to be true down to the exact details, this again gives strong evidence that this is indeed a real reality.

Do only Christians who believe in heaven and hell see this? No, there's Christians, many atheists, and non-Christians who are also seeing heaven and hell.

So now that we have evidence of a heaven and hell. This still doesn't narrow down the religion, since many religions also believe in heaven and hell.

Again, the recently released book by a non-Christian organization, shares two NDEs. One by an atheist, and one by a non-Christian. In both of their NDEs, they both see hell, and both see Jesus.

Are there more cases? Yes, there's more cases of non-Christians who don't believe in heaven, hell, nor Jesus, but, still see heaven, hell, or Jesus in their NDEs.

A part of me, still didn't want to believe this, since I still had ingrained in me new age views, that all would go to a heavenly location. So, I looked over more and more NDEs, but, the more I researched, the more confident I became that Christians are indeed correct.

In addition to the veridical information, and non-Christains, also seeing heaven, hell, Jesus, etc, and there's another important element that gives even further evidence that this is indeed true.

If you study demonology, the priests / exorcists, will often say that demons will give off a sulphur smell. It's believed that some demons reside in hell. Now if demons, can come from hell, we would also expect them to smell like hell correct? Again, notice the that exorcists will say they smell like sulphur.

Now there's been many cases of those having a hellish NDE, will also describe hell with a sulphur smell.

The Bible also states, this about hell, that it's a lake of fire, burning with sulphur.

Also what evidence, do we have that demons are even real?

When someone gets possessed by demons, they have access to information that was impossible for them to know about. To test this, there's been cases of demon possessed people, sharing information, that was impossible for them to know about, but, was later proven to be true down to the exact details. Meaning, the demon possessed person wasn't merely suffering from a mental illness.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24648161

You are the typical Christian who will believe anything that goes along with your idea about the afterlife. How do you honestly know that the people who have these experiences are dead? They are clearly not dead. No one is dead until they have been pronounced dead and these people are still living.

You talk about veridical information and you think this proves that the Christian God is real. You are sadly mistaken. First of all, do you honestly believe everything you hear? Unless you have experienced a veridical experience yourself, you should not just blindly accept it. Do you believe, for instance, in those television programs where psychics talk to dead people? Do you believe in the stories of people who are abducted by UFOs? Do you believe the various accounts of people who claim to be reincarnated and can remember their past lives? If I am correct about you, and I think I am, you only believe what you WANT to believe.

There is no proof for veridical information. Those stories, which are very few, by the way, could simply be made up stories. You want to believe in Jesus so you will believe anything that supports that. If you wanted to believe in reincarnation, you would support all those stories. If you wanted to believe in UFOs, you would believe the people who claim to be abducted.

Just because you READ something or HEAR something does not make it true. You claim people "SEE" Jesus so you know the Christian God HAS to be the correct one. So what does Jesus look like. Is he that white man with long brown hair that we see in drawings? You are clearly childish, gullible, and impressionable. You would believe ANYTHING that supported what you WANT TO BELIEVE. A lot of people do this but that doesn't make what you want to believe true.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Multiple people, who had the NDEs and seen him, mentioned a key characteristic that's not in the Bible. It's specific, and they all state the same thing. He has blue eyes.

In addition, some of the sources who share this information is highly credible:

Moody studied philosophy at the University of Virginia, United States, where he obtained a B.A. (1966), an M.A. (1967) and a Ph.D. (1969) in the subject. He also obtained a Ph.D. in psychology from the University of West Georgia, then known as West Georgia College, where he later became a professor in that topic.[1] In 1976, he was awarded an M.D. from the Medical College of Georgia.

After obtaining his M.D., Moody worked as a forensic psychiatrist in a maximum-security Georgia state hospital. In 1998, Moody was appointed Chair in Consciousness Studies at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas
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09/30/2012 12:23 PM
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Re: What led me to Christianity
I was a new ager for many years.

A popular topic among new agers, is near death experiences.

Now, most people assume near death experiences (NDE) are merely a hallucination, a part of the person's imaginations, or, a construct of the subconscious.

But, this is false for one main reason, and this is due to what's called 'veridical information'.

What's veridical information?

During the near death experiences, people will come across information that was impossible for them to know about, but after having the NDE and returning to their bodies, this information can verified to be true down to the exact details.

What does this mean?

This means, it was impossible for the person to have merely imagined the experience, and gives strong evidence, that what was seen in the NDE is an actual reality.

Here are some real examples.

A woman has a NDE, she then floats to the top of the hospital, and sees a single shoe. After the NDE, she verifies that the shoe was indeed there.

A woman is taken out of her body, and sees a heavenly place, with those who were deceased. She finds out information, from these people that she didn't know about. But after returning to her body, she was then able to verify the information with the deceased person's family members. The information was highly detailed and specific. The family members of the deceased person, verified that what the woman stated was true down to the exact details.

And there's many more cases, of NDE's, that contain veridical information.

Now, going back, the NDE that are mentioned in new age books. In these NDEs, we only learn of postive NDE's. This is typical, a person, leaves their body, goes to through a tunnel of light, has a life review, see deceased relatives, and may go further and see an actual heavenly location, which may even include trees, river, park, etc.

So, most will assume these people were merely imagining this, but, again, due to 'veridical information', this gives strong evidence that it was impossible for them to merely imagine this.

So, again, if one merely studies positve NDE's, we can then assume, everyone will go to a wonderful afterlife, meaning there's no hell. And therefore, most religions are false.

But

A book, was recently released by the International Association of Near Death Studies. In this book, one learns that there's both negative and positive near death experiences.

In addition, there's many other sources, where one can learn about negative NDEs.

What can one learn from these negative NDEs? That there's indeed a fiery hell, with various levels of punishments. Now most state, these are only a product of the mind, or, that these merely correspond to the person's level of consciousness.

But, again, due to veridical information, people coming across information that was impossible to know about, but, was later proven to be true down to the exact details, this again gives strong evidence that this is indeed a real reality.

Do only Christians who believe in heaven and hell see this? No, there's Christians, many atheists, and non-Christians who are also seeing heaven and hell.

So now that we have evidence of a heaven and hell. This still doesn't narrow down the religion, since many religions also believe in heaven and hell.

Again, the recently released book by a non-Christian organization, shares two NDEs. One by an atheist, and one by a non-Christian. In both of their NDEs, they both see hell, and both see Jesus.

Are there more cases? Yes, there's more cases of non-Christians who don't believe in heaven, hell, nor Jesus, but, still see heaven, hell, or Jesus in their NDEs.

A part of me, still didn't want to believe this, since I still had ingrained in me new age views, that all would go to a heavenly location. So, I looked over more and more NDEs, but, the more I researched, the more confident I became that Christians are indeed correct.

In addition to the veridical information, and non-Christains, also seeing heaven, hell, Jesus, etc, and there's another important element that gives even further evidence that this is indeed true.

If you study demonology, the priests / exorcists, will often say that demons will give off a sulphur smell. It's believed that some demons reside in hell. Now if demons, can come from hell, we would also expect them to smell like hell correct? Again, notice the that exorcists will say they smell like sulphur.

Now there's been many cases of those having a hellish NDE, will also describe hell with a sulphur smell.

The Bible also states, this about hell, that it's a lake of fire, burning with sulphur.

Also what evidence, do we have that demons are even real?

When someone gets possessed by demons, they have access to information that was impossible for them to know about. To test this, there's been cases of demon possessed people, sharing information, that was impossible for them to know about, but, was later proven to be true down to the exact details. Meaning, the demon possessed person wasn't merely suffering from a mental illness.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24648161

You are the typical Christian who will believe anything that goes along with your idea about the afterlife. How do you honestly know that the people who have these experiences are dead? They are clearly not dead. No one is dead until they have been pronounced dead and these people are still living.

You talk about veridical information and you think this proves that the Christian God is real. You are sadly mistaken. First of all, do you honestly believe everything you hear? Unless you have experienced a veridical experience yourself, you should not just blindly accept it. Do you believe, for instance, in those television programs where psychics talk to dead people? Do you believe in the stories of people who are abducted by UFOs? Do you believe the various accounts of people who claim to be reincarnated and can remember their past lives? If I am correct about you, and I think I am, you only believe what you WANT to believe.

There is no proof for veridical information. Those stories, which are very few, by the way, could simply be made up stories. You want to believe in Jesus so you will believe anything that supports that. If you wanted to believe in reincarnation, you would support all those stories. If you wanted to believe in UFOs, you would believe the people who claim to be abducted.

Just because you READ something or HEAR something does not make it true. You claim people "SEE" Jesus so you know the Christian God HAS to be the correct one. So what does Jesus look like. Is he that white man with long brown hair that we see in drawings? You are clearly childish, gullible, and impressionable. You would believe ANYTHING that supported what you WANT TO BELIEVE. A lot of people do this but that doesn't make what you want to believe true.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Multiple people, who had the NDEs and seen him, mentioned a key characteristic that's not in the Bible. It's specific, and they all state the same thing. He has blue eyes.

In addition, some of the sources who share this information is highly credible:

Moody studied philosophy at the University of Virginia, United States, where he obtained a B.A. (1966), an M.A. (1967) and a Ph.D. (1969) in the subject. He also obtained a Ph.D. in psychology from the University of West Georgia, then known as West Georgia College, where he later became a professor in that topic.[1] In 1976, he was awarded an M.D. from the Medical College of Georgia.

After obtaining his M.D., Moody worked as a forensic psychiatrist in a maximum-security Georgia state hospital. In 1998, Moody was appointed Chair in Consciousness Studies at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24648161


I don't believe that you have personally experienced this. If you did, you would have told your own story instead of regurgitating all the credentials of a man named Moody. I am not gullible. I don't care about someone's credentials. Moody probably made a ton of money selling his books. He had an agenda.

If I gave you all the credentials of the multiple evolutionary biologists who wrote books about evolution based upon years of study you would not believe it. But I am supposed to believe some man named Moody who probably tweeked all the evidence to make it LOOK like someone had a verdical experience. Anyone who wanted to sell a few books would do this. Look at that little boy who said he went to heaven and sat on the lap of Jesus. Gullible people eat up that shit. But I don't believe it because I know that it is just a ploy to sell a book. People will do anything for money. When you learn this lesson, you will learn a lot.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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United States
09/30/2012 12:30 PM
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Re: What led me to Christianity
I was a new ager for many years.

A popular topic among new agers, is near death experiences.

Now, most people assume near death experiences (NDE) are merely a hallucination, a part of the person's imaginations, or, a construct of the subconscious.

But, this is false for one main reason, and this is due to what's called 'veridical information'.

What's veridical information?

During the near death experiences, people will come across information that was impossible for them to know about, but after having the NDE and returning to their bodies, this information can verified to be true down to the exact details.

What does this mean?

This means, it was impossible for the person to have merely imagined the experience, and gives strong evidence, that what was seen in the NDE is an actual reality.

Here are some real examples.

A woman has a NDE, she then floats to the top of the hospital, and sees a single shoe. After the NDE, she verifies that the shoe was indeed there.

A woman is taken out of her body, and sees a heavenly place, with those who were deceased. She finds out information, from these people that she didn't know about. But after returning to her body, she was then able to verify the information with the deceased person's family members. The information was highly detailed and specific. The family members of the deceased person, verified that what the woman stated was true down to the exact details.

And there's many more cases, of NDE's, that contain veridical information.

Now, going back, the NDE that are mentioned in new age books. In these NDEs, we only learn of postive NDE's. This is typical, a person, leaves their body, goes to through a tunnel of light, has a life review, see deceased relatives, and may go further and see an actual heavenly location, which may even include trees, river, park, etc.

So, most will assume these people were merely imagining this, but, again, due to 'veridical information', this gives strong evidence that it was impossible for them to merely imagine this.

So, again, if one merely studies positve NDE's, we can then assume, everyone will go to a wonderful afterlife, meaning there's no hell. And therefore, most religions are false.

But

A book, was recently released by the International Association of Near Death Studies. In this book, one learns that there's both negative and positive near death experiences.

In addition, there's many other sources, where one can learn about negative NDEs.

What can one learn from these negative NDEs? That there's indeed a fiery hell, with various levels of punishments. Now most state, these are only a product of the mind, or, that these merely correspond to the person's level of consciousness.

But, again, due to veridical information, people coming across information that was impossible to know about, but, was later proven to be true down to the exact details, this again gives strong evidence that this is indeed a real reality.

Do only Christians who believe in heaven and hell see this? No, there's Christians, many atheists, and non-Christians who are also seeing heaven and hell.

So now that we have evidence of a heaven and hell. This still doesn't narrow down the religion, since many religions also believe in heaven and hell.

Again, the recently released book by a non-Christian organization, shares two NDEs. One by an atheist, and one by a non-Christian. In both of their NDEs, they both see hell, and both see Jesus.

Are there more cases? Yes, there's more cases of non-Christians who don't believe in heaven, hell, nor Jesus, but, still see heaven, hell, or Jesus in their NDEs.

A part of me, still didn't want to believe this, since I still had ingrained in me new age views, that all would go to a heavenly location. So, I looked over more and more NDEs, but, the more I researched, the more confident I became that Christians are indeed correct.

In addition to the veridical information, and non-Christains, also seeing heaven, hell, Jesus, etc, and there's another important element that gives even further evidence that this is indeed true.

If you study demonology, the priests / exorcists, will often say that demons will give off a sulphur smell. It's believed that some demons reside in hell. Now if demons, can come from hell, we would also expect them to smell like hell correct? Again, notice the that exorcists will say they smell like sulphur.

Now there's been many cases of those having a hellish NDE, will also describe hell with a sulphur smell.

The Bible also states, this about hell, that it's a lake of fire, burning with sulphur.

Also what evidence, do we have that demons are even real?

When someone gets possessed by demons, they have access to information that was impossible for them to know about. To test this, there's been cases of demon possessed people, sharing information, that was impossible for them to know about, but, was later proven to be true down to the exact details. Meaning, the demon possessed person wasn't merely suffering from a mental illness.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24648161

You are the typical Christian who will believe anything that goes along with your idea about the afterlife. How do you honestly know that the people who have these experiences are dead? They are clearly not dead. No one is dead until they have been pronounced dead and these people are still living.

You talk about veridical information and you think this proves that the Christian God is real. You are sadly mistaken. First of all, do you honestly believe everything you hear? Unless you have experienced a veridical experience yourself, you should not just blindly accept it. Do you believe, for instance, in those television programs where psychics talk to dead people? Do you believe in the stories of people who are abducted by UFOs? Do you believe the various accounts of people who claim to be reincarnated and can remember their past lives? If I am correct about you, and I think I am, you only believe what you WANT to believe.

There is no proof for veridical information. Those stories, which are very few, by the way, could simply be made up stories. You want to believe in Jesus so you will believe anything that supports that. If you wanted to believe in reincarnation, you would support all those stories. If you wanted to believe in UFOs, you would believe the people who claim to be abducted.

Just because you READ something or HEAR something does not make it true. You claim people "SEE" Jesus so you know the Christian God HAS to be the correct one. So what does Jesus look like. Is he that white man with long brown hair that we see in drawings? You are clearly childish, gullible, and impressionable. You would believe ANYTHING that supported what you WANT TO BELIEVE. A lot of people do this but that doesn't make what you want to believe true.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Multiple people, who had the NDEs and seen him, mentioned a key characteristic that's not in the Bible. It's specific, and they all state the same thing. He has blue eyes.

In addition, some of the sources who share this information is highly credible:

Moody studied philosophy at the University of Virginia, United States, where he obtained a B.A. (1966), an M.A. (1967) and a Ph.D. (1969) in the subject. He also obtained a Ph.D. in psychology from the University of West Georgia, then known as West Georgia College, where he later became a professor in that topic.[1] In 1976, he was awarded an M.D. from the Medical College of Georgia.

After obtaining his M.D., Moody worked as a forensic psychiatrist in a maximum-security Georgia state hospital. In 1998, Moody was appointed Chair in Consciousness Studies at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24648161


I don't believe that you have personally experienced this. If you did, you would have told your own story instead of regurgitating all the credentials of a man named Moody. I am not gullible. I don't care about someone's credentials. Moody probably made a ton of money selling his books. He had an agenda.

If I gave you all the credentials of the multiple evolutionary biologists who wrote books about evolution based upon years of study you would not believe it. But I am supposed to believe some man named Moody who probably tweeked all the evidence to make it LOOK like someone had a verdical experience. Anyone who wanted to sell a few books would do this. Look at that little boy who said he went to heaven and sat on the lap of Jesus. Gullible people eat up that shit. But I don't believe it because I know that it is just a ploy to sell a book. People will do anything for money. When you learn this lesson, you will learn a lot.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


So you don't believe in any information contained in books. Since the writer, is simply trying to make money.

But you also wouldn't believe in a person, telling his case, even if he's not selling a book or a product.

Do you therefore blindly reject all evidence?

To blindly accept information without evidence, is just as unwise, to blindly reject information without evidence.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20657814
United States
09/30/2012 12:38 PM
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Re: What led me to Christianity
...

You are the typical Christian who will believe anything that goes along with your idea about the afterlife. How do you honestly know that the people who have these experiences are dead? They are clearly not dead. No one is dead until they have been pronounced dead and these people are still living.

You talk about veridical information and you think this proves that the Christian God is real. You are sadly mistaken. First of all, do you honestly believe everything you hear? Unless you have experienced a veridical experience yourself, you should not just blindly accept it. Do you believe, for instance, in those television programs where psychics talk to dead people? Do you believe in the stories of people who are abducted by UFOs? Do you believe the various accounts of people who claim to be reincarnated and can remember their past lives? If I am correct about you, and I think I am, you only believe what you WANT to believe.

There is no proof for veridical information. Those stories, which are very few, by the way, could simply be made up stories. You want to believe in Jesus so you will believe anything that supports that. If you wanted to believe in reincarnation, you would support all those stories. If you wanted to believe in UFOs, you would believe the people who claim to be abducted.

Just because you READ something or HEAR something does not make it true. You claim people "SEE" Jesus so you know the Christian God HAS to be the correct one. So what does Jesus look like. Is he that white man with long brown hair that we see in drawings? You are clearly childish, gullible, and impressionable. You would believe ANYTHING that supported what you WANT TO BELIEVE. A lot of people do this but that doesn't make what you want to believe true.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Multiple people, who had the NDEs and seen him, mentioned a key characteristic that's not in the Bible. It's specific, and they all state the same thing. He has blue eyes.

In addition, some of the sources who share this information is highly credible:

Moody studied philosophy at the University of Virginia, United States, where he obtained a B.A. (1966), an M.A. (1967) and a Ph.D. (1969) in the subject. He also obtained a Ph.D. in psychology from the University of West Georgia, then known as West Georgia College, where he later became a professor in that topic.[1] In 1976, he was awarded an M.D. from the Medical College of Georgia.

After obtaining his M.D., Moody worked as a forensic psychiatrist in a maximum-security Georgia state hospital. In 1998, Moody was appointed Chair in Consciousness Studies at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24648161


I don't believe that you have personally experienced this. If you did, you would have told your own story instead of regurgitating all the credentials of a man named Moody. I am not gullible. I don't care about someone's credentials. Moody probably made a ton of money selling his books. He had an agenda.

If I gave you all the credentials of the multiple evolutionary biologists who wrote books about evolution based upon years of study you would not believe it. But I am supposed to believe some man named Moody who probably tweeked all the evidence to make it LOOK like someone had a verdical experience. Anyone who wanted to sell a few books would do this. Look at that little boy who said he went to heaven and sat on the lap of Jesus. Gullible people eat up that shit. But I don't believe it because I know that it is just a ploy to sell a book. People will do anything for money. When you learn this lesson, you will learn a lot.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


So you don't believe in any information contained in books. Since the writer, is simply trying to make money.

But you also wouldn't believe in a person, telling his case, even if he's not selling a book or a product.

Do you therefore blindly reject all evidence?

To blindly accept information without evidence, is just as unwise, to blindly reject information without evidence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24648161

Oh please, don't resort to stupidity. I can see through you as if you are transparent. OF COURSE, I believe in information in books that CAN BE PROVEN.

There is a thread on this board now that talks about man who died and then he was shown how reincarnation is what happens after death. This, exactly like your story, cannot be proven. Just because someone writes a book telling us that people have had proof of knowing something they couldn't have known does not make it TRUE. It could be all a set up. People tell stories all the time. The information in those veridical stories has probably been manipulated and made to look true when it is completely false.

What about those psychics on television who claim to talk to dead relatives and they tell these people things they couldn't possibly have known? You might tend to believe that because you are an impressionable person. I, on the other hand, think the "psychic" probably had access to the internet and can make it look like veridical information so they can host a television show. But that's just me. So..to answer your incredibly stupid question, I believe things that have PROOF...verifiable proof.
Anonymous Coward
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09/30/2012 12:41 PM
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Re: What led me to Christianity
I just figured it was all the queers, child molesting priests, and the fact that the pope covers up pediphilia, that turned you on to it.
Anonymous Coward
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09/30/2012 12:42 PM
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Re: What led me to Christianity
so lets see, you gave up being I AM THAT I AM and labeled yourself first a new ager and then a dark christian? whatever for?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24358110


stop the need to follow and define yourself by any paradigm other than your own.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24358110


That's 'Lame.' He's searching for truth. I think he's onto something. You're not going to take him off his own journey.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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09/30/2012 12:43 PM
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Re: What led me to Christianity
...


Multiple people, who had the NDEs and seen him, mentioned a key characteristic that's not in the Bible. It's specific, and they all state the same thing. He has blue eyes.

In addition, some of the sources who share this information is highly credible:

Moody studied philosophy at the University of Virginia, United States, where he obtained a B.A. (1966), an M.A. (1967) and a Ph.D. (1969) in the subject. He also obtained a Ph.D. in psychology from the University of West Georgia, then known as West Georgia College, where he later became a professor in that topic.[1] In 1976, he was awarded an M.D. from the Medical College of Georgia.

After obtaining his M.D., Moody worked as a forensic psychiatrist in a maximum-security Georgia state hospital. In 1998, Moody was appointed Chair in Consciousness Studies at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24648161


I don't believe that you have personally experienced this. If you did, you would have told your own story instead of regurgitating all the credentials of a man named Moody. I am not gullible. I don't care about someone's credentials. Moody probably made a ton of money selling his books. He had an agenda.

If I gave you all the credentials of the multiple evolutionary biologists who wrote books about evolution based upon years of study you would not believe it. But I am supposed to believe some man named Moody who probably tweeked all the evidence to make it LOOK like someone had a verdical experience. Anyone who wanted to sell a few books would do this. Look at that little boy who said he went to heaven and sat on the lap of Jesus. Gullible people eat up that shit. But I don't believe it because I know that it is just a ploy to sell a book. People will do anything for money. When you learn this lesson, you will learn a lot.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


So you don't believe in any information contained in books. Since the writer, is simply trying to make money.

But you also wouldn't believe in a person, telling his case, even if he's not selling a book or a product.

Do you therefore blindly reject all evidence?

To blindly accept information without evidence, is just as unwise, to blindly reject information without evidence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24648161

Oh please, don't resort to stupidity. I can see through you as if you are transparent. OF COURSE, I believe in information in books that CAN BE PROVEN.

There is a thread on this board now that talks about man who died and then he was shown how reincarnation is what happens after death. This, exactly like your story, cannot be proven. Just because someone writes a book telling us that people have had proof of knowing something they couldn't have known does not make it TRUE. It could be all a set up. People tell stories all the time. The information in those veridical stories has probably been manipulated and made to look true when it is completely false.

What about those psychics on television who claim to talk to dead relatives and they tell these people things they couldn't possibly have known? You might tend to believe that because you are an impressionable person. I, on the other hand, think the "psychic" probably had access to the internet and can make it look like veridical information so they can host a television show. But that's just me. So..to answer your incredibly stupid question, I believe things that have PROOF...verifiable proof.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Show me verifiable proof of abiogenesis.
Anonymous Coward
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09/30/2012 12:46 PM
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Re: What led me to Christianity
I know from personal experience on the astral, a prayer to Jesus can chase off "demons", or whatever you wish to call the parasitical entities that may attack you there. An I'm not a Christian either...

This means I have 100 % faith in Jesus as a benevolent spirit. He's a very good friend to have!

But I still find Christianity completely useless.
Anonymous Coward
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09/30/2012 12:48 PM
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Re: What led me to Christianity
Read some Hindu accounts of the NDE phenomena.

[link to www.spiritualforums.com]

Right so Hindus get distinctively different NDE's then Westerners.

That makes your entire argument to place faith in the Bible solely on the notion that westerners experience the "Biblical God" during an NDE rather idiotic. If Hindus received NDE's that would fall in line with the western experiences then you might have had a point. But that just is not the case.
Anonymous Coward
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09/30/2012 12:49 PM
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Re: What led me to Christianity
(OP) Don't let these idiots take you off your own spiritual Journey
They are angry at life & feel the need to lash out. You will find peace at the end. God speed.
Anonymous Coward
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09/30/2012 12:53 PM
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Re: What led me to Christianity
...


I don't believe that you have personally experienced this. If you did, you would have told your own story instead of regurgitating all the credentials of a man named Moody. I am not gullible. I don't care about someone's credentials. Moody probably made a ton of money selling his books. He had an agenda.

If I gave you all the credentials of the multiple evolutionary biologists who wrote books about evolution based upon years of study you would not believe it. But I am supposed to believe some man named Moody who probably tweeked all the evidence to make it LOOK like someone had a verdical experience. Anyone who wanted to sell a few books would do this. Look at that little boy who said he went to heaven and sat on the lap of Jesus. Gullible people eat up that shit. But I don't believe it because I know that it is just a ploy to sell a book. People will do anything for money. When you learn this lesson, you will learn a lot.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


So you don't believe in any information contained in books. Since the writer, is simply trying to make money.

But you also wouldn't believe in a person, telling his case, even if he's not selling a book or a product.

Do you therefore blindly reject all evidence?

To blindly accept information without evidence, is just as unwise, to blindly reject information without evidence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24648161

Oh please, don't resort to stupidity. I can see through you as if you are transparent. OF COURSE, I believe in information in books that CAN BE PROVEN.

There is a thread on this board now that talks about man who died and then he was shown how reincarnation is what happens after death. This, exactly like your story, cannot be proven. Just because someone writes a book telling us that people have had proof of knowing something they couldn't have known does not make it TRUE. It could be all a set up. People tell stories all the time. The information in those veridical stories has probably been manipulated and made to look true when it is completely false.

What about those psychics on television who claim to talk to dead relatives and they tell these people things they couldn't possibly have known? You might tend to believe that because you are an impressionable person. I, on the other hand, think the "psychic" probably had access to the internet and can make it look like veridical information so they can host a television show. But that's just me. So..to answer your incredibly stupid question, I believe things that have PROOF...verifiable proof.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Show me verifiable proof of abiogenesis.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24648161


First off, what does that have to do with anything?

And even if it would require Divine Intervention to start creation (Big Bang), life or even create humans out of monkeys then that in no way would validate the Bible in any way shape or form. The validation of the Bible must come from the claims it makes (eg. better cancer recovery rates for patients who have been prayed for, physical manifestions of faith etc. etc.).
Anonymous Coward
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09/30/2012 12:55 PM
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Re: What led me to Christianity
...


I don't believe that you have personally experienced this. If you did, you would have told your own story instead of regurgitating all the credentials of a man named Moody. I am not gullible. I don't care about someone's credentials. Moody probably made a ton of money selling his books. He had an agenda.

If I gave you all the credentials of the multiple evolutionary biologists who wrote books about evolution based upon years of study you would not believe it. But I am supposed to believe some man named Moody who probably tweeked all the evidence to make it LOOK like someone had a verdical experience. Anyone who wanted to sell a few books would do this. Look at that little boy who said he went to heaven and sat on the lap of Jesus. Gullible people eat up that shit. But I don't believe it because I know that it is just a ploy to sell a book. People will do anything for money. When you learn this lesson, you will learn a lot.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


So you don't believe in any information contained in books. Since the writer, is simply trying to make money.

But you also wouldn't believe in a person, telling his case, even if he's not selling a book or a product.

Do you therefore blindly reject all evidence?

To blindly accept information without evidence, is just as unwise, to blindly reject information without evidence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24648161

Oh please, don't resort to stupidity. I can see through you as if you are transparent. OF COURSE, I believe in information in books that CAN BE PROVEN.

There is a thread on this board now that talks about man who died and then he was shown how reincarnation is what happens after death. This, exactly like your story, cannot be proven. Just because someone writes a book telling us that people have had proof of knowing something they couldn't have known does not make it TRUE. It could be all a set up. People tell stories all the time. The information in those veridical stories has probably been manipulated and made to look true when it is completely false.

What about those psychics on television who claim to talk to dead relatives and they tell these people things they couldn't possibly have known? You might tend to believe that because you are an impressionable person. I, on the other hand, think the "psychic" probably had access to the internet and can make it look like veridical information so they can host a television show. But that's just me. So..to answer your incredibly stupid question, I believe things that have PROOF...verifiable proof.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Show me verifiable proof of abiogenesis.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24648161

I don't have that proof but go take a course in evolutionary biology. They could give you the proof. And, by the way, I didn't say I believe in evolution completely. I think evolution explains things in the most complete way as of yet. I believe college professors over television evangelists, seers, gurus, prophets, etc. I think you should as well. They have some pretty definitive proof for their theories. It is a lot better "proof" than your guru Moody can come up with so maybe you should give them a try.

Look at ALL proof, not just Moody proof. I think you only believe what you WANT to believe. I do this too, I guess, but I am more of a critical thinker. I don't accept Christianity because it makes no sense. For instance, I KNOW that no man was born of a virgin or rose from the dead. I know this because it is scientifically impossible. I also know that a donkey did not have a conversation with his master using human language. I am not gullible. I know that no God would require his creation to burn up an unblemished calf for him as an animal sacrifice because I have read about numerous other pagan religions (before Christianity) that did this and I don't believe in them either. I am not going to just believe something because it makes me happy. I want truth and maybe that is the difference between you and I. You value your own happiness over truth. I value truth over happiness. Big difference, I am thinking.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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09/30/2012 12:58 PM
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Re: What led me to Christianity
...


So you don't believe in any information contained in books. Since the writer, is simply trying to make money.

But you also wouldn't believe in a person, telling his case, even if he's not selling a book or a product.

Do you therefore blindly reject all evidence?

To blindly accept information without evidence, is just as unwise, to blindly reject information without evidence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24648161

Oh please, don't resort to stupidity. I can see through you as if you are transparent. OF COURSE, I believe in information in books that CAN BE PROVEN.

There is a thread on this board now that talks about man who died and then he was shown how reincarnation is what happens after death. This, exactly like your story, cannot be proven. Just because someone writes a book telling us that people have had proof of knowing something they couldn't have known does not make it TRUE. It could be all a set up. People tell stories all the time. The information in those veridical stories has probably been manipulated and made to look true when it is completely false.

What about those psychics on television who claim to talk to dead relatives and they tell these people things they couldn't possibly have known? You might tend to believe that because you are an impressionable person. I, on the other hand, think the "psychic" probably had access to the internet and can make it look like veridical information so they can host a television show. But that's just me. So..to answer your incredibly stupid question, I believe things that have PROOF...verifiable proof.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Show me verifiable proof of abiogenesis.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24648161


First off, what does that have to do with anything?

And even if it would require Divine Intervention to start creation (Big Bang), life or even create humans out of monkeys then that in no way would validate the Bible in any way shape or form. The validation of the Bible must come from the claims it makes (eg. better cancer recovery rates for patients who have been prayed for, physical manifestions of faith etc. etc.).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22089462


If there's verifiable proof of abiogenesis, this would give proof of evolution.
Anonymous Coward
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09/30/2012 01:01 PM
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Re: What led me to Christianity
(OP) Don't let these idiots take you off your own spiritual Journey
They are angry at life & feel the need to lash out. You will find peace at the end. God speed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19980561


And I might assume that you are a Christian. YOu find peace by believing in stories that are completely impossible. You do this because you want to think you will live forever. You want to think some God in the sky has some special plan for you. You don't want to grow up and face reality. You would rather live your life in a fantasy world. So you call your fantasy life a spiritual journey. You don't want truth, you don't care about proof. You just blindly accept everything that supports your case, no matter how scientically impossible that story might be.

If the Bible had a story about a green ghost who appeared on the wall of a prophet and told that prophet that God wanted him to go into a village and kill men, women, children, infants, all animals, even the plants. God tells this prophet, through this green ghost, that he must burn the town to the ground...YOU would believe it. You believe everything printed in the Bible but if that story would be in some other book, you would laugh your ass off at any incredibly stupid person who would believe it. You are childish so grow up.
Anonymous Coward
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09/30/2012 01:03 PM
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Re: What led me to Christianity
...

Oh please, don't resort to stupidity. I can see through you as if you are transparent. OF COURSE, I believe in information in books that CAN BE PROVEN.

There is a thread on this board now that talks about man who died and then he was shown how reincarnation is what happens after death. This, exactly like your story, cannot be proven. Just because someone writes a book telling us that people have had proof of knowing something they couldn't have known does not make it TRUE. It could be all a set up. People tell stories all the time. The information in those veridical stories has probably been manipulated and made to look true when it is completely false.

What about those psychics on television who claim to talk to dead relatives and they tell these people things they couldn't possibly have known? You might tend to believe that because you are an impressionable person. I, on the other hand, think the "psychic" probably had access to the internet and can make it look like veridical information so they can host a television show. But that's just me. So..to answer your incredibly stupid question, I believe things that have PROOF...verifiable proof.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Show me verifiable proof of abiogenesis.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24648161


First off, what does that have to do with anything?

And even if it would require Divine Intervention to start creation (Big Bang), life or even create humans out of monkeys then that in no way would validate the Bible in any way shape or form. The validation of the Bible must come from the claims it makes (eg. better cancer recovery rates for patients who have been prayed for, physical manifestions of faith etc. etc.).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22089462


If there's verifiable proof of abiogenesis, this would give proof of evolution.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24648161

So then who created this God (man in the sky) who created everything? If you can't answer that question, you should believe in scientific theory. We don't know everything yet but scientists are still searching. Christians, on the other hand, are still stuck back in the dark ages listening to tales of a God who accepts blood sacrifices.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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09/30/2012 01:04 PM
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...


So you don't believe in any information contained in books. Since the writer, is simply trying to make money.

But you also wouldn't believe in a person, telling his case, even if he's not selling a book or a product.

Do you therefore blindly reject all evidence?

To blindly accept information without evidence, is just as unwise, to blindly reject information without evidence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24648161

Oh please, don't resort to stupidity. I can see through you as if you are transparent. OF COURSE, I believe in information in books that CAN BE PROVEN.

There is a thread on this board now that talks about man who died and then he was shown how reincarnation is what happens after death. This, exactly like your story, cannot be proven. Just because someone writes a book telling us that people have had proof of knowing something they couldn't have known does not make it TRUE. It could be all a set up. People tell stories all the time. The information in those veridical stories has probably been manipulated and made to look true when it is completely false.

What about those psychics on television who claim to talk to dead relatives and they tell these people things they couldn't possibly have known? You might tend to believe that because you are an impressionable person. I, on the other hand, think the "psychic" probably had access to the internet and can make it look like veridical information so they can host a television show. But that's just me. So..to answer your incredibly stupid question, I believe things that have PROOF...verifiable proof.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Show me verifiable proof of abiogenesis.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24648161

I don't have that proof but go take a course in evolutionary biology. They could give you the proof. And, by the way, I didn't say I believe in evolution completely. I think evolution explains things in the most complete way as of yet. I believe college professors over television evangelists, seers, gurus, prophets, etc. I think you should as well. They have some pretty definitive proof for their theories. It is a lot better "proof" than your guru Moody can come up with so maybe you should give them a try.

Look at ALL proof, not just Moody proof. I think you only believe what you WANT to believe. I do this too, I guess, but I am more of a critical thinker. I don't accept Christianity because it makes no sense. For instance, I KNOW that no man was born of a virgin or rose from the dead. I know this because it is scientifically impossible. I also know that a donkey did not have a conversation with his master using human language. I am not gullible. I know that no God would require his creation to burn up an unblemished calf for him as an animal sacrifice because I have read about numerous other pagan religions (before Christianity) that did this and I don't believe in them either. I am not going to just believe something because it makes me happy. I want truth and maybe that is the difference between you and I. You value your own happiness over truth. I value truth over happiness. Big difference, I am thinking.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


I did have university classes in research and analysis, so I would say I'm likewise a critical thinker.

There's other credible sources beside Moody.

Biologists can only provide theories regarding abiogenesis, but there's no verifiable proof that this is true.
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South Africa
09/30/2012 01:04 PM
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Re: What led me to Christianity
[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to www.youtube.com]

Some NDE's
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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09/30/2012 01:05 PM
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Re: What led me to Christianity
We don't know everything yet but scientists are still searching.

Likewise
Anonymous Coward
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09/30/2012 01:10 PM
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Re: What led me to Christianity
...

Oh please, don't resort to stupidity. I can see through you as if you are transparent. OF COURSE, I believe in information in books that CAN BE PROVEN.

There is a thread on this board now that talks about man who died and then he was shown how reincarnation is what happens after death. This, exactly like your story, cannot be proven. Just because someone writes a book telling us that people have had proof of knowing something they couldn't have known does not make it TRUE. It could be all a set up. People tell stories all the time. The information in those veridical stories has probably been manipulated and made to look true when it is completely false.

What about those psychics on television who claim to talk to dead relatives and they tell these people things they couldn't possibly have known? You might tend to believe that because you are an impressionable person. I, on the other hand, think the "psychic" probably had access to the internet and can make it look like veridical information so they can host a television show. But that's just me. So..to answer your incredibly stupid question, I believe things that have PROOF...verifiable proof.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Show me verifiable proof of abiogenesis.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24648161

I don't have that proof but go take a course in evolutionary biology. They could give you the proof. And, by the way, I didn't say I believe in evolution completely. I think evolution explains things in the most complete way as of yet. I believe college professors over television evangelists, seers, gurus, prophets, etc. I think you should as well. They have some pretty definitive proof for their theories. It is a lot better "proof" than your guru Moody can come up with so maybe you should give them a try.

Look at ALL proof, not just Moody proof. I think you only believe what you WANT to believe. I do this too, I guess, but I am more of a critical thinker. I don't accept Christianity because it makes no sense. For instance, I KNOW that no man was born of a virgin or rose from the dead. I know this because it is scientifically impossible. I also know that a donkey did not have a conversation with his master using human language. I am not gullible. I know that no God would require his creation to burn up an unblemished calf for him as an animal sacrifice because I have read about numerous other pagan religions (before Christianity) that did this and I don't believe in them either. I am not going to just believe something because it makes me happy. I want truth and maybe that is the difference between you and I. You value your own happiness over truth. I value truth over happiness. Big difference, I am thinking.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


I did have university classes in research and analysis, so I would say I'm likewise a critical thinker.

There's other credible sources beside Moody.

Biologists can only provide theories regarding abiogenesis, but there's no verifiable proof that this is true.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24648161


That is just the thing, though. No one has ANY proof of what happens after death. No one knows. You don't know, I don't know. But what I DO know is that the Bible is false. It was not written by God. It is a book written by men used to control people through fear. The stories are not true. So I would believe in evolution far more readily than I would put any faith in a book written by barbaric, demented men who pretended they talked to God so they could go into villages and kill men, women, children, infants, animals. You can't really be so stupid that you believe that book was written by GOD??? Can you?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 24613698
South Africa
09/30/2012 01:11 PM
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Re: What led me to Christianity
I was a...and now I'm a...and next week I'll be a...
Grow up and be what you are :-)
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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09/30/2012 01:13 PM
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Re: What led me to Christianity
...


Show me verifiable proof of abiogenesis.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24648161

I don't have that proof but go take a course in evolutionary biology. They could give you the proof. And, by the way, I didn't say I believe in evolution completely. I think evolution explains things in the most complete way as of yet. I believe college professors over television evangelists, seers, gurus, prophets, etc. I think you should as well. They have some pretty definitive proof for their theories. It is a lot better "proof" than your guru Moody can come up with so maybe you should give them a try.

Look at ALL proof, not just Moody proof. I think you only believe what you WANT to believe. I do this too, I guess, but I am more of a critical thinker. I don't accept Christianity because it makes no sense. For instance, I KNOW that no man was born of a virgin or rose from the dead. I know this because it is scientifically impossible. I also know that a donkey did not have a conversation with his master using human language. I am not gullible. I know that no God would require his creation to burn up an unblemished calf for him as an animal sacrifice because I have read about numerous other pagan religions (before Christianity) that did this and I don't believe in them either. I am not going to just believe something because it makes me happy. I want truth and maybe that is the difference between you and I. You value your own happiness over truth. I value truth over happiness. Big difference, I am thinking.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


I did have university classes in research and analysis, so I would say I'm likewise a critical thinker.

There's other credible sources beside Moody.

Biologists can only provide theories regarding abiogenesis, but there's no verifiable proof that this is true.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24648161


That is just the thing, though. No one has ANY proof of what happens after death. No one knows. You don't know, I don't know. But what I DO know is that the Bible is false. It was not written by God. It is a book written by men used to control people through fear. The stories are not true. So I would believe in evolution far more readily than I would put any faith in a book written by barbaric, demented men who pretended they talked to God so they could go into villages and kill men, women, children, infants, animals. You can't really be so stupid that you believe that book was written by GOD??? Can you?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


I once shared a similar view, for many years.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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United States
09/30/2012 01:15 PM
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Re: What led me to Christianity
(OP) Don't let these idiots take you off your own spiritual Journey
They are angry at life & feel the need to lash out. You will find peace at the end. God speed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19980561


I appreciate that.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22089462
Netherlands
09/30/2012 01:16 PM
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Re: What led me to Christianity
...

Oh please, don't resort to stupidity. I can see through you as if you are transparent. OF COURSE, I believe in information in books that CAN BE PROVEN.

There is a thread on this board now that talks about man who died and then he was shown how reincarnation is what happens after death. This, exactly like your story, cannot be proven. Just because someone writes a book telling us that people have had proof of knowing something they couldn't have known does not make it TRUE. It could be all a set up. People tell stories all the time. The information in those veridical stories has probably been manipulated and made to look true when it is completely false.

What about those psychics on television who claim to talk to dead relatives and they tell these people things they couldn't possibly have known? You might tend to believe that because you are an impressionable person. I, on the other hand, think the "psychic" probably had access to the internet and can make it look like veridical information so they can host a television show. But that's just me. So..to answer your incredibly stupid question, I believe things that have PROOF...verifiable proof.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Show me verifiable proof of abiogenesis.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24648161


First off, what does that have to do with anything?

And even if it would require Divine Intervention to start creation (Big Bang), life or even create humans out of monkeys then that in no way would validate the Bible in any way shape or form. The validation of the Bible must come from the claims it makes (eg. better cancer recovery rates for patients who have been prayed for, physical manifestions of faith etc. etc.).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22089462


If there's verifiable proof of abiogenesis, this would give proof of evolution.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24648161


But what does that have to do with NDE's?

Also evolution is not dependent on abiogensis in any way shape or form. If a Divine Entity or "aliens" or any other way you can come up with created life then evolution would STILL happen (although if it created biodiversity, then we should see this in genetics, but we don't. Instead genetics findings are essentially just another confirmation that evolution does happen and that ultimately everything is related to each other). And if we were magically created out of mud then we would still not share genetic markers with most of the apes, which we do*.

And again even if evolution didn't happen (which it does) then that would not grant any form of validity to the literal interpretation of Biblical creation myths.

Go find evidence of a global flood, go find evidence that the earth was totally depopulated during that flood and that somehow inbreeding wasn't an issue afterwards. Go find bunny fossils that show they lived with dinosaurs. Etc. etc.

*
www.asa3.org/ASA/education/origins/human-descent.htm
Anonymous Coward
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09/30/2012 01:17 PM
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Re: What led me to Christianity
maybe you are a christian because you are desperate for answers and out of the options its the least offensive.





GLP