Someone tell me, why do people buy gifts for each other on Christmas?

Please go on.

^ This.

LOL, just returning the favor

But I'm not actually one, you on the other hand...

Why?

when i was little they told me it was because it was jesus' birthday but he wanted everyone else to have presents instead

Why the fuck are you so aggressive, bitch?

Do you have the answer to my original question?

I'm not being aggressive.
You're too stupid.

What better way to stomp out the pagan holiday? Much like Rome killed and persecuted the Christians, it only took about 300 years for Christianity to take over Rome after Christ's death. Now, we look forward to once pagan holidays like Christmas and Easter as something divine, instead of something blasphemous. Simple, when you look at it through Christian glasses.

Take a look at Xmas suicide and domestic violence rates and then come back and chat about how the enforced pressures of the season are "trivial".

Last Edited by ming on 12/03/2012 09:11 AM

Purely out of interest, would you give a gift to someone who professed not to want one?

The idea of trees as idols, bringing in evergreens in the winter, and decorating trees and your house with bright decorations during pagan holidays is very ancient.

Although the modern interpretation of the Christmas tree seems to be from Germany in the 1500's, the European pagan traditions concerning evergreens & ornaments go all the way back into ancient times and ancient lands.

Here's the bible verse concerning ancient pagans that cut down & propped up trees & then decorated them:

[link to www.biblegateway.com]

I don't think the Renaissance Germans invented the idea of winter solstice decorations and winter evergreens, although I think they expanded on earlier pagan rituals. These rituals have been with us throughout the ages.

There are many old and complimentary pagan traditions that appear to have given rise to the modern Christmas tree. Here are just a few of them:

[link to www.history.com]

I encourage you to read through the link above to see all the similarities and some of the early attitudes against the Christmas tree and other pagan rituals.

When looked at holistically, it seems apparent to me that much of the overlapping ancient pagan customs had evolved and endured into Europe and eventually into the US over time.

It's true that Christmas and its tree has become an ingrained cultural phenomenon that not only endures to today, but in many ways has surpassed it's era of Christian-orientated existence. Most of the varied rituals that we know of today as "Christmas" themes began life before the advent of Christ as pagan rituals. And now they've outlasted the "Christ" element of Christmas, and now exist in the post-Christian modern secular world of Jesus-free "X-mas" that so many non-Christians celebrate today.

It's funny and sad to me that most atheists that I talk to about Christmas easily understand, and have previous knowledge of, the pagan concepts that make up Christmas, even as discussions that I have with Christians mostly result in either complete ignorance or outright self-delusion and denial concerning this matter.

So if you want to celebrate Christmas, that's on you. I can't tell you what you can't celebrate. It's simply my job to educate people on the pagan origins of their holiday. There's no harm in learning something new.

You then, will need to take responsibility for your own educated actions.

What is stupid about my answer?

LOL, you cant answer.
I give gifts to others on Christmas because I want to.
If I decide this year that I want to give gifts, I will.
If I decide this year that I do not want to give gift, I wont.
I have not bought gifts yet, I may decide either way at this point.
Not everyone feels obligated to participate because of tradition or religion. Some people can choose for themselves just based on what they want to do.

Ok.

Okay

DING DING DING.....thats ^^^^^ exactly it!

For me its the issue of wastefulness, and being forced to partake in something I don't enjoy. It's only recently people have stopped forcing gifts upon me, and inundating me with greetings cards(handing someone an Xmas card whilst saying merry Xmas in person at the same time is ludicrous). But i still have to deal with strangers trying to hug and/or kiss me, asking if I "got anything good", and being hounded into going places I don't want to go, with people I usually avoid, to have plates overfilled with food I'll never be able to manage and will end up in the bin, surrounded with drunks, and all of this on the basis of "oh come on, you have to, its Christmas!"

So for someone who feels offended by the gluttony, greed, and wastefulness of the season, its UNAVOIDABLE! That's the problem. You're all ragging on OP for foisting their opinion on you, but for me the WHOLE MODERN WORLD forces this stuff on me for the entire season. My other halfs family all bought me gifts a few years ago even though I'd made it clear I wouldn't appreciate it. Told me "its all about giving" and, due to my being polite upon receiving them "see, we'll get you to like christmas!"

Interesting how their giving spirit evaporated once I thanked them for their gifts and informed them I'd donated them to charity. Apparently their generosity applies only to people who's ethics they want to shit on, and not to the less-fortunate and needy.

I'm aware that there are plenty of people who celebrate in an appropriate way, good for them. I'm sure those same people wouldn't force. me to take part against my will. Most people just get crazy over the top, and they need to back off.

So if you decide not to participate do you refuse to accept gifts too?

But I think the Catholic gambit backfired.

They may have wanted to stamp out paganism (questionable), but instead it infiltrated and usurped Judeo-Christian holidays. They replaced holidays that Yeshua(Jesus) observed, with holidays the pagans observed. They just tried to put a Christian face on them.

I think the end result has been a travesty.

I never understood why non-Catholics celebrate "Catholic"-invented holidays anyway.

Wouldn't it seem better to celebrate Yeshua's birthday as "Jesus' Birthday" or something similar? Why must we continue to call it "Christ's Mass?" Only Catholics celebrate "Mass", another pagan concept.

And then there are opportunities to celebrate other important Christian dates instead of the winter solstice (on the Julian calendar- they even got the day wrong,) like Ascension Day, the day Christ ascended to heaven. That seems like an important date. Why not celebrate that date? Most non-Catholics don't even know it exists. I don't think Catholics can claim exclusive rights to that holiday, as the exact day of Yeshua's ascension I believe was known in the bible, unlike Yeshua's birthday, which was not recorded in the bible.

In fact, the observance of someone's birthday in the bible seems to have been seen as a pagan thing to do, not a Judeo-Christian observance. You can infer from that what you will.

Yeshua did not tell us to observe His birth. He did make a big deal about Passover though. If you know the meaning of Passover, you'll understand that Yeshua Himself was the Passover sacrificial lamb. It is a holiday that foreshadowed the coming of Yeshua.

Resurrection Sunday has also been usurped by Easter, another pagan holiday, and a topic for it's own thread.

Even our calendar has been created with a pagan theme. We should also fix that mistake. (and not with the NJR calendar either!)

I do not want any gifts. What other people do I can not control.
I really agree with your post just above. I try to be polite about it too when someone tries to give me a gift.
My family is pagan in their beliefs and they have gone over the top before. Even though every year they ask me what do I want and I say nothing every time, they still get something and still I tell them it is unnecessary. They do not act like I am obligated to give gifts or receive them. But they do it because they want to. And they stopped giving me presents on my birthday at my request. Which I am pretty happy about.

Because the 3 wise men came with gifts to the baby Jesus.

I stopped. No stupid meaningless decorations, trees, or holiday "celebration" for me anymore. It's liberating.