dating&romance advice - see Don´tBeAfraid´s tips/explanations - edited to have only the useful information for ya!

Do you really want to debate the merit of finding a quality person in a bar? Or would you rather send me a pm? Because it's rather silly don't you think? The vast literature is on my side that finding a person of quality within a bar is absurd.

Never mind, I see you can't pm me. Fine. Against my better judgement I'll discuss this in an open topic.

Find some relationship expert that recommends bar hopping as a way to meet men and women, and post that here as evidence.

Find a post of mine in which I state my perfection.

Basically PENG, you're saying if I don't behave in a manner that you like, then you can decide how I'm acting, as if you're suddenly the evaluator on my behavior. It's rather rude, and I don't find anything healthy about your insights. You haven't proved any of your subjective assertions.

To be honest PENG, I have seldom lost a debate in my life.

This topic is not on debating. It's about dating and relationship. Rather than criticise my words, why not explain how to date and how to have a good relationship from your perspective? That is the topic.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/30/2013 10:49 PM

This feels so absurd but here goes:
[link to artofmanliness.com]
"It’s that last question where most guys get stuck and end up with the cliche answer of “the bar.” The reality is very few relationships begin in bars and pubs. According to a survey by sociologist David Grazian, only 20% of adults met their most recent partner at a bar. So there has to be other places to meet a woman, right?

Sure there are. But first, do yourself a favor. Forget the where for a second and instead focus on the why. Why are you looking? Be honest. If your answer is: “because I’m unhappy/bored with being alone, and I’d just really like to be in a relationship…” then you might as well be looking for a date on Jupiter. Get more than okay with yourself and be fine with being alone, and then it’ll happen. As to where? Could be anywhere. Amazing, single women are certainly out there. But they tend to only reveal themselves as such to confident men who are open to a relationship, yet at the same time aren’t exhibiting the slightest hint of desperation. Now with all that said, here’s a few non-bar places to keep your ears up…"

On the negative experices in bar dating:
[link to books.google.com]

On the waste of time in finding someone in a bar:
[link to books.google.com]

The weirdness of finding a date in a bar:
[link to tips21.com]
"There are many great fancy Bars or Pubs that you can meet someone if you are looking for a fling, tryst or one night stands. However, if you are looking for something serious then the bar is the last place you want to search for that special someone. Most men that frequent bars are not looking for long term relationships and just want someone to sleep with after a long night of drinking. That lovely girl you have your eye on at the bar could be an alcoholic without you even knowing it. You may also want to reconsider meeting someone in a local bar where the bartender knows everyone by their first names, owns an inflatable doll and has at least 2 missing teeth. Worse than that, the only beer they serve at this bar is in a can or brands you can barely pronounce. One sure sign you don’t want to meet someone to fall in love with is at a bar where the bathroom is filled with writings on the wall and it looks like it hasn't been cleaned in a few weeks. Chances are that you will end up catching more than a fish and end up getting crabs! Stay away from meeting your love one in rat & vermin infested bars. That should be signs enough that things could get a lot worse for you down the line."

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/30/2013 10:56 PM

[link to dapperism.com]
The Absolute Worst Places to Meet Women
"So we’ve covered how to be a proper gentleman once you are on a date, but there is an even bigger obstacle that you have to face before you even get to the date: Meeting someone that is interested enough in you to go out on a date. I know for some guys out there this isn’t really a problem, but for some of us, this can be like sharpening a marble, which is to say damn near impossible. If you’re one of those guys who has some trouble finding a good place to meet women, let me help you find the absolute worst places to meet up with a potential mate.

The Bar

I know there are a lot of guys who are going to blow the whistle on me for this one. After all, bars have drunk women, so what’s not to like? Well, there’s a lot of things not to like. Bars, by their nature, are designed to hold large numbers of drunk people. People that are drunk tend to be drunk for a reason, and that reason could be anything from having just been dumped/divorced, overly depressed and in need of temporary solace, or they could just be there to get liquored up and go home with the first person that seems interested. In reality, if you are looking for an actual relationship, the bar is a really bad place to go if you want to find one, because people you meet in bars generally have dirty laundry that they have no problem airing, and starting a relationship based on trying to drown your sorrows is not healthy for anyone."

[link to www.buzzle.com]
"The first thing that pops into your head when you hear of places where you can meet women is the night bar where across a smoky, alcohol seeped room your eyes lock with a pretty, hot woman. While it is true that bars across America are teeming with beautiful, single women, no woman in her right mind wants to meet the "right" guy for her at a bar. This is because the general problem with these "wild" settings is that women see men on the prowl, in these places, who would rather have a one night stand than be in a committed relationship. Coming from a woman, I can assure you that bars are the worst places to meet women; a place where their defenses are up. So all that you would get are rude refusals, fake phone numbers and sometimes a polite "no". In contrast to that the best place to meet women is somewhere where she is relaxed and easily approachable. Here is a list of some offbeat, but good places you can try!"

[link to www.justkeepthechange.com]

"Why Bars may Not be the Best Place to Meet Women

It’s Friday night, and you’re going out with your friends.

Where are you most likely going to go? If you answered a bar (or pub), you answered correct.

You can get beer, there’s music, and there are girls. Perfect evening right?

Then why is it, that 9/10 times you go out, you don’t leave the bar with nothing but an empty feeling in your stomach? Sure, drinking with your buddies is great, but let’s admit it.

The #1 reason guys go out is to meet girls. And nothing wrong with that!
But why is it so hard to meet girls at bars?

The first and foremost reason is the competetion. For every girl at most bars, there are at least 3 guys. That’s a 3 to 1 ratio. Bad odds right from the beginning.

And what does this mean? It means that all the girls have already been “hit on” long before you get your chance.

Sure, I know you’re a great guy. Intelligent, funny and charming. But most guys are creeps, and women know this.

And that’s the second reason it’s so hard to meet girls at bars.

They already have their defenses up long before you get to speak a word. It’s like they shoot you down from a mile away.

And I totally get it. Seriously, wouldn’t you get tired of having guys hitting on you all night?"

[link to www.doctornerdlove.com]
"Top 5 Places To Meet Women (…That Aren’t Bars or Clubs)


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Top 5 Places To Meet Women (…That Aren’t Bars or Clubs)
July 15, 2011 by Dr. NerdLove 24 Comments

It’s Friday, which means once you’re out of class or clocked off the job it’s time to start taking advantage of everything life has to offer you for the next two days.* It’s time for adventure, romance and trying new things. It’s time to get out there and meet new people, new women especially. It’s time to make something awesome happen.

I’m a huge proponent of online dating, but if you’re not out actually having a life, you’re not going to have anything to offer to the women online. And while you’re getting out of your house anyway, you may as well go out and meet people.

So let’s talk about how you’re going to do that.

This one’s almost at novel length, so strap yourself in.

The first place that comes to mind when it comes to where to meet women are almost always inevitably bars and clubs, and that can be a problem. Maybe that idea fills you with dread. Maybe you can’t stand the smoke and the noise. Maybe you’re under 21 and you can’t get in to the club in the first place.

All of this is completely understandable. Having spent more than my share of time in them, I will be the first to tell you that I’m not a fan of meeting women at clubs. I’ve had plenty of successes there, but the downsides outweigh the rewards. I enjoy going on occasion but as a regular stop for meeting people… not so much. They’re loud, smokey, overpriced and stocked to the brim with people I would probably not want to spit on if they were on fire. And, crucially, the women I met there were rarely the sort of women I actually liked for longer than it took to recover from the hangover the next day.

So where do you want to go? Well, if you want to go fishing, you gotta go where the fish are. You want to meet women? You have to go where the women are.

A quick aside: while I do advocate going to these places to meet women, I want to stress that you should not be heading down like a bunch of pick-up artists headed to the local club to drain the place dry; women who you’re going to meet at these venues are not necessarily out looking to meet the love of their life. The key words to keep in mind are “calm”, “friendly” and “low key”. And be sure to smile, for fuck’s sake."

You've gotten yourself quite worked up, PENG. I sent you two PMs. If you wish, I will continue, but I would rather discuss the merits of dating from a healthy perspective.

I do hope you share some healthy tips and insights from your experience. That would be more helpful.

For anyone reading these post, I hope you'll go back and read my posts contemplatively. A major theme is that we cannot be "perfect" by definition. That it's a lie that's perpetuated by the media and ultimately by corporations.

That we get that idea of perfection in our heads, and in women in particular, such nonsensical unattainable thought result in a low sense of self-worth.

That the idea of perfection tends to objectify women, and often is enforced by men, and so women become "works of art" not dynamic human beings with feelings.

That all such ideas of perfection can logically and reasonably be proven to be false. That perhaps only 35,000 people on the Earth have ideal facial symmetry and their bodies display the golden ratio, and so finding that ideal is extremely limited in a world of over seven Billion souls.

That even those with "perfect features" have just as many problems in relationship. As such perfection doesn't equal dating success at all. Many in fact have high divorce rates.

That all of these "perfection" ideas are very damaging and the best way is to flush out those ideas, and replace them with healthy realistic ideas about ourselves.

I have never stated I am perfect, on the contrary, I have made every attempt to oppose such ideas.

The cost in human terms from a medical standpoint is a sense of brokenness within the psyche of the preponderance of women, and results in pathological disease states like anorexia nervosa and bulimia. That I have intentionally worked to help people to believe in themselves so such things don't happen.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 02/01/2013 05:57 PM

I am not angry. I am disappointed that you are lying about my behavior. Read my previous post about being "perfect".

Telling women in particular to go to bars to date is particularly bad advice. It's not any advice that I would give. It's not any advice that's prudent. It's not advice that any dating expert would give. I'm still waiting for any evidence to prove your assertions that it is.

What bars are well-known to be are places for pick-up artists to use NLP techniques to get laid. As such, they are the antithesis of my own ideas, and I completely disagree with using bars in this manner.

I think you'll find that almost every dating book you read will recommend places like book stores and hardware stores as places to find the opposite sex. It's practical and often results in people with positive qualities. As phoe had good luck, I offered my own such subjective experiences in support.

If you wish, I'll point out some pick up artist forums in which those of that ilk despribe the techniques used to best effect to get laid by chosing women in bars of all kinds. It's not something I wish to perpetuate, but I think it would clearly show you how evil the practice is.

Bars are the worst places to meet quality people. By the very dynamics of them with alcohol leading to poor judgement, plus the loudness being noncondusive to conversation, it lends itself to fostering a poor environoment of very shallow men who prey upon women.

Unreasonable means to show a lack of good sense. In fact, my posts are written using very good sense to undo all of the junk you've been persuaded to swallow. I think almost all of my posts here have been "good sense" and as such, your label of me as "unreasonable" is without merit.

No one in my life has every called me obstinate. Rather, the opposite is what I am known for, for I tend to be yielding, considerate, and welcoming of other ideas which are not my own.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/31/2013 12:05 AM

For the record, I am not attacking anyone. If I disagree with you, and you ever feel attacked, then I apologize.

I hope that the preponderance of my advice is edifying. The fact that PENG feels attacked, makes me think I should re-evaluate. As such, I will consider eliminating my previous posts. The last thing I want is to attack people.

My goals have been primarily to build up anyone with questions, or to edify anyone reading.

If you persist in this manner PENG, then I'll simply delete my posts. All of them, for I would not make you stumble.
"Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother." Romans 14:13

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/31/2013 12:36 AM

You dating online?

Same candidate shortage here. I was dating online last year but put my profile down.
Very weird things happened there. Thinking about putting the profile back up. Then again, its almost summer and time is short in summer. Garden and stuff.

Last Edited by Face Palmer on 02/09/2013 04:40 AM

Well, for instance one woman messaged me. I was thinking I should at least reply to each mail these days. She was begging for compliments quickly and got all creepy, so I told here I would not be here to boost her ego. I got spammed with harsh messages afterwards and had to put her on ignore. I learned its better not to reply if they are not my type.

2nd one we were about to meet but suddenly she bugged out cause I was "pushing her". She being the one coming up with meeting IRL I found this weird. Never heard of her again ever after. 3rd suddenly found out she is not ready for a relationship yet. Oh geez :)

I ended up actually meeting two. One I met 3 to 4 times and then she was sitting on the sofa asking me wether we would be in a relationship now. I told her I would not think this would be working out. Drove her home shortly afterwards (she got no car). Got a long hatemail few days later.
Her mom also said I was an ass. Go figure.
I never figured out what caused all the hate, cause I'm quite reserved and well, she claims I played with her. Strange. I would have understand, if I fucked her and let her go afterwards, but thats not me.
She was a total bitter person. I can imagine why her former realtionships did not last long.

The other one suddenly hugged and kissed me. Err. Well, it did not work out either. We split after 3 months cause I did not fell in love with her. We still meet now and then tho.

So I hear a lot about people who met online, but hell, a lot of those women there sure have serious issues. I'm actually not sure if its worth all the hassle.

Oh, which portal allows sending messages for free?

Last Edited by Face Palmer on 02/09/2013 08:39 AM

Try to let go of your frustrations, Phoe. I know it's not possible that everyone will mesh with everyone else romantically, but at least at a friend level it's possible to widen your acquaintance circle, so that sooner or later you will "bump into" someone who is naturally a better match. Do you feel like you're "running out of time"? Nature runs by its own schedule, we can help things along, by keeping a balance. I know the guy who you had the date with, with the McD's incident (lol), may not have been your cup of tea. But, try to see the humor in it, and for each flaw you saw in him, try to pic out something good, as well. It doesn't mean he's for you, but it will assure that you pick partners not only on a lack of "negative" traits, but according to their "positive" traits, as well. It's helpful for all of us to do that, now and then.

I know you know this already, because you're a smart gal, but never hurts to repeat, once in a while.

And, you do have a very good command of the English language, having seen how well you can speak in English and even pick up subtle humor, I am sure you are seen as extremely verbally gifted in German.

Hi there how are you?! Thanks, I know not much but just like to help if I can. Lol

I'm doing great, thanks! Hope you've had a good weekend. I think everyone who has contributed to the thread, DBA included, has had some valid points.

Relationships and human interaction I feel is a complex issue, and it's good to be flexible and adapt to situations on a case-by-case basis, which is what I think everyone has been doing, here. I pretty much echo a lot of what you've said, Peng, re: Phoe's situations. I think you give good interpersonal observation and suggestions.

Keep your chin up, Phoe! Every day is a new day, with new opportunities. :-)